Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: aaronr on September 09, 2017, 11:48:42 AM
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Hello I'm wondering if folks are flying against each other in arenas with both VR and ordinary monitors?
The reason I ask is that it seems that folks without VR (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL) would be at a decisive disadvantage.
Of course there will be exceptions but can it really be expected that two pilots of exactly the same skill level could have a truly even fight with one being much more aware of the situation?
I have a hard time believing this hasn't been asked a thousand times but I couldn't find anything after trying about ten different search methods.
I don't want to start a fight but would just like to know if I'm mistaken, and there is some way to make fights more even like giving outside cockpit views to those without VR?
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When is all else equal? The answer is "never" so your argument is moot since it's based on a theoretical premise.
My experience is that VR is more fun but fights are the same.
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I have a x52 Pro, it has 3 hats, I can see all around, I guess that's a disadvantage to a XBOX controller and some others,I see what your saying, but this game supports a lot of different peripherals, including rudder pedals, button boxes and VR.
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So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.
I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.
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There are too many variables here - some people use hatswitches for views, some use the number keypad - others have TrackIR and some even VR. I guess it even makes a difference what the resolution of your monitor is - people say dots are easier to see at 1080p than they are at higher resolutions.
VR gear, while getting more affordable, still requires a great video card - if you have a GTX 960, I'm not sure - it may struggle a bit.
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There are too many variables here - some people use hatswitches for views, some use the number keypad - others have TrackIR and some even VR. I guess it even makes a difference what the resolution of your monitor is - people say dots are easier to see at 1080p than they are at higher resolutions.
VR gear, while getting more affordable, still requires a great video card - if you have a GTX 960, I'm not sure - it may struggle a bit.
I have a 1080 with 8 GB ram now and stepped it up to a i7 cpu as well still 16 GB ram on the CPU.
I don't want to end up spending a bunch of money on a headset if it's not going to help my situational advantage if the hat switch and other methods are just as good right?
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So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.
I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.
I think you'll see a big step up in the fun factor. The other things you mentioned support my statement that all other things are never equal. VR may help you be more successful but I haven't seen that myself, just as pedals may help some people more than others depending on aircraft choice and flying style.
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Hello I'm wondering if folks are flying against each other in arenas with both VR and ordinary monitors?
The reason I ask is that it seems that folks without VR (ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL) would be at a decisive disadvantage.
Of course there will be exceptions but can it really be expected that two pilots of exactly the same skill level could have a truly even fight with one being much more aware of the situation?
Several times I have seen VR pilots mention that they find themselves to be at a disadvantage vs TrackIr pilots when it comes to the ability to do quick scans especially of the rear hemisphere.
A pilot using hat view only (and being used to it), can do extremely quick scans of his surroundings, watching in every direction in less than a second. (With my trackir I'm significantly slower, but big cockpit frames are less of an obstruction to me)
So I don't think it's that decisive. I still shoot down VR users, and I still get whacked by gunners using a mouse only.
And, as already mentioned, there is a huge variety in other equipment which people are using in here, all giving you various levels of an 'edge' or comfort. Mouse, simple joystick, full HOTAS, rudder pedals, TrackIR, VR, small screens, huge 3 monitor setups...
At least when it comes to fighter combat, in the end of the day experience, tactics and a thorough understanding of aerial combat maneuvers will still beat any equipment advantage a player may possess.
but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.
I used pedals for a few years, then went back to twisty. Pedals were more comfortable and more precise, but I found that precision to matter only in a few situations. Generally I did as fine with the twisty as with the pedals. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't go back to pedals if I could ;) )
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In my opinion, VR gives one major difference, ability to judge closure rates and better targeting. Since you are in a 3D world it just makes it more "Normal",perceived any way. What I mean by that is your brain can handle the calculations faster in 3D. Vr is a step backwards when it comes to fine details though. The resolution/crispness of detail and textures is way degraded when compared to playing 2d with TIR or other head tracking add ons. You can use hat switches to help with the VR "6" checking(most other sims dont have this) but it is alot like TIR,takes time to dial it in to work best for you. If money isnt an issue, and details are not number1 on your list of priorities...VR is the way to go. This game has some unique features for VR users,one and the best for me so far is a new one. You can now take off headset(VR) and automatically the game goes to regular 2d mode. Great for tank guns and level bombing. So its a toss up really, do I believe VR has improved my game play? ABSOLUTELY. Did it give me enough of a boost to shell out alot of cash? Not really! I had the cash, so just jumped in the deep end. Am I happy with VR? It did take some time but I wouldnt go back to 2D unless I just absolutely had too :rock
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(different question, but along the same theme)
When I use my TrackIR, I tend to have a fishbowl effect in Aces High. Does VR completely eliminate that so it feels natural? Can you set the degrees of movement in VR to be slower or faster than RL rotation?
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I would think the fishbowl effect is from your FOV setting. If the FOV matches your monitor size and eyeball distance from the monitor the fishbowl effect should go away. You should see that when you zoom in a little.
VR has natural perspective and movement but some peripheral vision is blocked so it's like wearing googles or a dive mask. That's still better than your peripheral vision seeing your room along with the monitor.
It is not possible to scale head movement like TIR requires for a rear view. Instead your headset is tracked so you can look straight back but it's more practical to use a rear view switch.
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(different question, but along the same theme)
When I use my TrackIR, I tend to have a fishbowl effect in Aces High. Does VR completely eliminate that so it feels natural? Can you set the degrees of movement in VR to be slower or faster than RL rotation?
Head movement in VR is 1:1, which does cause some issue with looking back "over your shoulder", because the periphery is limited you have to turn farther around to see behind you. I have found a swivel chair is a great help with this. For me, with the exception of the limited peripheral vision VR feels very natural.
Not sure what you mean by fishbowl effect with TIR. I played on a 42" 1080p tv for many years with TIR and loved it. In fact smoothly tracking a target in the rear hemisphere and maintaining spacial orientation is one of the things I've struggled with since transitioning to VR.
There are trade offs such as resolution, not to mention cost when you go with VR, but for me they're worth it for the 3D environment I now play in.
:salute
Sik
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I have seen some folks videos where they have FOV set at like 120+. Thats what I would call "Fishbowl" experience. How everything looks stretched when reading through a fish tank :x AcesHigh though offers one key difference with VR! You can still use hat switch views, meaning that if twisting to see behind you is a problem just use a look back "Hatswitch" key. Like with TIR it may work for you right out of the box :uhoh but give it time, and adjust every thing to your liking, you more than likely would never go back to standard 2D :x
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So there's no advantage whatsoever in a fight if I were to invest in VR?
It's a lot of money for me but I am willing to pay if it can give me some advantage as I have for pedals better joy stick and head tracking etc.
I spent money for those things and saw an immediate benefit over guys that I flew with all the time.
I guess I was under the impression that VR would give me a big step up, but if it's as you say it wouldn't even be as big as getting pedals was.
It won't give you a decisive advantage over someone that doesn't use VR or other head tracking hardware like TrackIR. The view system in this game is fantastic and customizable so a person just using a hatswitch on their joystick can have excellent views. I used to use TrackIR and while it made some things like tracking a bandit under the nose easier, it never gave me a decisive advantage over someone else that wasn't using one.
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So would it also apply to the days when we had external view available in some arenas, I remember folks arguing that the external view "MADE" good pilots and that's why it was done away with.
I personally liked using it when flying from point to point. I also thought the same about VR hence I weas afraid it could be Banned for "MAKING" good pilots.
I guess that tosses the external view argument out the cockpit window.
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Skill is skill. I think I have come up against some player that use VR and I think I have won more than lost. Hanging your skill on a crutch of "technology" isn't going to get you anywhere. Practice and skill will win out more often.
I cant afford VR so have no intentions of buying it at this time. But that doesn't mean Im going to give up because those WITH VR "may" have an advantage. It hasn't been proven to me and I'll keep shooting them down until they do :devil
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To me that makes sense,
I have to think the added methods to get more situational awareness greatly help the newcomer who hasn't had much time to hone skills on hat switch as well.
I agree in the end they will not see much difference as comes to plain practice and skill.
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I suck, and always will, been flying since WB 2.0, with that said VR being 1 to 1 gives me a better understanding of where everybody is in a big dogfight. My brain processes position of everyone better because I have to actually turn my head. As far as what is better, it's already been said, it's just more fun flying in VR for me.
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I just got VR this weekend and I will likely not be using it for Aces High. While it provides an awesome experience I find that it limits my abilities. The aim appears to be off and the depth perception isnt really there for me. When im coming in on a flight of bombers I was almost always off on my target and am missing way too much. I also feel like I've lost alot of situational awareness. I have yet to use it for bombing vehicles and looking for them on the ground, we'll see how that goes. I'm sure I would get better with more practice, much like the rudder pedals I bought, I can't stand that period of being mediocre and gave up on them quickly.
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Tried TIR for a while, and went back to the hat switch views. I find hat switch much better for SA since I can survey every view in a couple of seconds and since the views are "fixed" it gives me a better feel for the attitude of the aircraft. Haven't tried VR, but I wouldn't assume that it is an advantage. As always, YMMV. :D
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The depth perception utility of VR in a flight simulation is overblown, IMHO. The eyes ability to determine distance due to binocular vision isn't all that great - you can potentially tell which object is closer, but determining actual distance is based much more on apparent size and environmental cues (haze, etc) than just from having stereoscopic vision. The main advantage that a VR system like Oculus would give you is better awareness of exactly where an object is in relationship to you because your brain is used to determining location based on head position - i.e. you are much more keenly aware that it is behind you because you are looking over your shoulder, and how fast that position is changing because you are tracking it with your head/eyes.
Mike
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I just got VR this weekend and I will likely not be using it for Aces High. While it provides an awesome experience I find that it limits my abilities. The aim appears to be off and the depth perception isnt really there for me. When im coming in on a flight of bombers I was almost always off on my target and am missing way too much. I also feel like I've lost alot of situational awareness. I have yet to use it for bombing vehicles and looking for them on the ground, we'll see how that goes. I'm sure I would get better with more practice, much like the rudder pedals I bought, I can't stand that period of being mediocre and gave up on them quickly.
I believe the problem is that the monitor field of view you're used to is not normal perspective. Going to an accurate perspective is throwing you off.
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From secondhand I have heard that "It is the closest thing to real flying I have experienced." That, however, does not mean it confers an advantage to winning air combat in a computer game. Since I only expect to experience "wonder goggles" vicariously I request that you buy a set, try them out, and report back your experience. The worst that could happen is you are dissatisfied and have to sell them. I suspect the absence of a clear definitive response is due to the fact that having success with AH depends on a bunch of things that the goggles don't help with so if you have some mastery of them the addition of goggles doesn't make a huge difference.
Just gotta say again the stock view system in AH is PERFECTION. It seems like every other flight sim just doesn't "get it." Even the ones with snap views don't really seem to work well. The simplicity of adjusting and saving the views is really nice and the ability to combine views is genius.
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Since I only expect to experience "wonder goggles" vicariously I request that you buy a set, try them out, and report back your experience.
Have you read through the All Things VR forum?
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I just got VR this weekend and I will likely not be using it for Aces High. While it provides an awesome experience I find that it limits my abilities. The aim appears to be off and the depth perception isnt really there for me. When im coming in on a flight of bombers I was almost always off on my target and am missing way too much. I also feel like I've lost alot of situational awareness. I have yet to use it for bombing vehicles and looking for them on the ground, we'll see how that goes. I'm sure I would get better with more practice, much like the rudder pedals I bought, I can't stand that period of being mediocre and gave up on them quickly.
Interesting. I felt the same way early on, and now I won't fly without it. The reason you feel that your shot is off is because you are most likely used to your 2D monitor @ 120 FOV or so. With VR, leading the target and watching those tracers becomes more important than your muscle memory of where the target is relative to the crosshair (if that makes sense). What I am trying to say is that you will get used to it with time. Be glad the hit sprites are fixed, because in the beginning, you couldn't see hit sprites on the enemies aircraft, so you had no idea if your shots were off or not. Not you can work around the target if you're off and readjust. It takes some getting used to, but like I said, after a few days and some hours of flying each day, you won't be able to fight without it.
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Yoy may or may not need to adjust your FLIGHT STYLE. For me, it meant adjusting my guns convergence. I use to have .50s set at 400yrds+ Now....275. I was getting so much closer that my 400 conv was just tickling wing tips as main parts of enemy plane was falling inside my wing mount gun conv. If you are use to playing with way distorted FOV like I have seen from some folk with videos out there, you will be disappointed with VR. It is around 70-80 FOV? Some where in that range I believe. The HAT views still work with Aces High and VR, have yet to find another Flight Sim/Combat Sim that has hat views AND VR at same time. The head movement is 1:1 and fixed, but Hat views can help if you need it. It WILL require changes to your style and you will need to be patient and open minded about those changes. Its not for every one, so dont expect to go from mediocre to best ever in a month because of VR. VR just lets a player experience the closest thing to BEING THERE as most will ever get. You may experience nausea, most say that this is less than what TIR players experienced, mainly because the head movement was more natural with VR. The way I see some players jerking and flopping around, they would get REAL uncomfortable in VR. I guess the biggest thing for me, was how BAD I was actually flying. You notice all the little signals of UNCOORDINATED flight that I WAS having success with in 2D. I have to be alot more deliberate now. Mainly from the tighter FOV I believe. Every thing is in your face and you can see the little details you would normally get away with,especially in shooting. That was my experience. I have read alot on these forums and some folk are mis understanding why VR is "Greatest Thing EVER". It will improve realism, but if you suck now-you will suck with VR. If you have trouble finding Vehicles-you will now have new issues to work through with VR (learning how to track ground targets with limited head movement). Gv'ing in VR will be your hardest to deal with. 2 eyed Binocular>2 eyed MON-ocular is just plain off when gunning through turret sights. HighTech addressed this with the new "Mode swap" on headset removal though. I am NOT trying to discourage anyone looking to get VR, just giving an honest assessment. I love it and wouldnt go back to 2D and TIR unless I just absolutely had too, and I REALLY loved it when I found TIR. For me VR is just plain awesome! Wish I had a Dollar for every time I have knocked something off my desk, when reaching for the Throttle :rofl. I would have enough money to treat a few folk with free VR :uhoh The decrease in CRISPNESS is probably the biggest issue I hear with VR users, and it is a BIG step back from high def monitors. You will get use to it though. I was somewhat disappointed with VR at first, as it was WAY DIFFERENT. After about 2 months though I hardly noticed it. For me the "In the cockpit" realism feeling more than made up for some decrease in crispness. One other note to bring up,incase some dont read every bost about VR. If you wear prescription lenses, you will need them IN VR. Wearing glasses can cause SEVERE damage to Oculus Rift Lenses :bhead I know for a fact. I didnt even think my glasses were even close to touching but they were. I got major scratches in less than 2 months. They do offer Prescription lens implants for Oculus, and I would strongly recomend looking into these if you do need your glasses for Vr. I just found out about them a bit too late. https://widmovr.com/product/oculus-rift-prescription-lenses-adapter/
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I have switched back and forth between vr and trackir. Now, I stay with vr 100% of the time. Dive bombing is a bit different in vr so if you switch back and forth you will find yourself missing easy shots.
As posted before AH is leading the pack on supplemental views in vr. If they can make VR like trackir, it will be a huge game changer.