Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: LilMak on October 14, 2017, 12:28:31 AM
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Please update your commitment levels. We were outnumbered in a frame where we were supposed to have a 10% numbers advantage. But we're down by 10 at the opening of the frame. That means the Luftwaffe had 30 more fighters than we did this week. I know it's hard to herd cats but please try to keep up. Last week I assigned 10 bombers to 2 squads and still had to pull from others to try to get out minimums. This is not acceptable.
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Please update your commitment levels. We were outnumbered in a frame where we were supposed to have a 10% numbers advantage. But we're down by 10 at the opening of the frame. That means the Luftwaffe had 30 more fighters than we did this week. I know it's hard to herd cats but please try to keep up. Last week I assigned 10 bombers to 2 squads and still had to pull from others to try to get out minimums. This is not acceptable.
I agree Mak, we Luftwaffe pilots need more kills. Please show up Allies :devil
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The single side defending model has gotten old.
It leads itself to unbalanced fights. Especially when the bombers involved are not 17s and 24s.
I understand/accept it for BoB.
It's not necessary anywhere else.
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The single side defending model has gotten old.
It leads itself to unbalanced fights. Especially when the bombers involved are not 17s and 24s.
I understand/accept it for BoB.
It's not necessary anywhere else.
Germany spent half of the war defending against bombing raids...
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The single side defending model has gotten old.
It leads itself to unbalanced fights. Especially when the bombers involved are not 17s and 24s.
I understand/accept it for BoB.
It's not necessary anywhere else.
I agree and have said this before. Setups that have both sides attacking and defending are the most balanced. I really do not care if there is historical accuracy or not. I just like the two sides matched up against each other in the most equal terms. One side defending creates a dogpile of defenders waiting at the target. When both sides have attack and defend responsibilities it spreads the fights out a bit.
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Germany spent half of the war defending against bombing raids...
True, and outnumbered as I recall.
FSO isn't working anymore, need proof? Look at the threads started in this forum over the last...... Lets say 3 months.
Essentially no one even talks about it now, not even questions from "new players" to me seems troublesome.
Numbers last night, 90 vs 82.
When I saw objectives on Sunday, I knew exactly what was going to happen. It's an easy script. Not a dam thing I could do about it either, the rules, setup, targets, plane availability, and simple math just don't allow for it.
I would expect frame 3 to be the same basically, except that the Axis will most likely have Spit 9's to shoot at which should make for a refreshing change of pace.
To last nights Allied squads efforts, I thank you! I wish I could have done more to help with your survival.
:salute
Jdog
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Maybe I shouldn't have recruited that new steam player to fly with our squad on AXIS.....
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The numbers weren't really that far off from the initial side split and both sides had issues. EDIT: Claim Jumpers were 1 below Minumum, Duxford Wing RAF was within Minimum. Missed the colors.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb180/ralphmunnich/101317NUMBERS.jpg) (http://s205.photobucket.com/user/ralphmunnich/media/101317NUMBERS.jpg.html)
1841 Squadron is a habitual 1 pilot squad. When I admin an FSO tour, I typically stick them in the side I want to have less numbers. Because I know they typically bring 1-2 pilots. I would have placed them Axis this month.
I like assault style setups, I believe they have a place in FSO and other events. Battle of Britain and 8th Air Force style events are the most common and should be set up like that, kind of silly to do it any other way. That being said, as long as they are rotated and not several months in a row of that (like we had earlier this year) I am ok with the occasional assault setup.
Just get the numbers right going into it. The Allies should have a numbers advantage, both sides need to have the single engine fighters equal or a slight Luftwaffe advantage made with destroyer aircraft. The remainder of Allied pilots should be bombers @ around 20-24.
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I cannot speak to the northern attack with the B-17s.
But the southern attack with the B-26's had a LOT of SPITFIRES around them. As one of the guys in this game who I think is one of the best I have ever flown with in squad level tactics (Stampf) once told me, you are not going to stop the first pass on the bombers, it is best to set up defense to catch them after the pass and keep them from getting a second one. :salute
I don't think it is broken, I am sorry you do not like this set up but many of us enjoy the MID to LATE war Europe fights. I for one do. There are many set ups that I absolutely hate (PTO) but I fly them anyway, even when my night is over in literally a BLAZE of glory, 50 minutes in. :bhead
I think there are a lot of reasons the numbers are low, but I would say the this type of set up is very low on that list as to why.
Anyway, big thanks to those that put in all the effort that goes into making Friday nights something to look forward to every week. :cheers:
Here is a view from my plane last night...... enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-anUsVbIM&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-anUsVbIM&feature=youtu.be)
Thanks to 9GIAP and Dantoo for keeping the vulchers off.
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I cannot speak to the northern attack with the B-17s...
Perdweeb put it best as we were landing after witnessing the slaughter of the B-17's targeting A112: A film of this mission will clearly illustrate 2 things - 1. how to set up and execute a proper defense against heavy bombers, and 2. how not to escort heavy bombers.
Now this was said before the logs were posted and it is clear now that the Allies had an manpower deficiency that exacerbated any poor strategic and tactical decisions.
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I'll say this the escorts were not very high, so us 109s could push them down and they were far back from the bombers...kinda hard for the buffs when they are the initial contact.
But I do believe attacking sides vs defending need the numbers...heck that's a law of war.
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Perdweeb put it best as we were landing after witnessing the slaughter of the B-17's targeting A112: A film of this mission will clearly illustrate 2 things - 1. how to set up and execute a proper defense against heavy bombers, and 2. how not to escort heavy bombers.
E
Now this was said before the logs were posted and it is clear now that the Allies had an manpower deficiency that exacerbated any poor strategic and tactical decisions.
Give me the 30 extra fighters you had and I doubt you would be so confident.
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having been in their position, I felt bad for the guys in the bombers! on the other hand, shooting a few of them down brought me lots of satisfaction.
I know there are folks that worry about side numbers, squad numbers, fairness, equality, balance and historical value. luckily I'm not one of them. I just like to kill or
be killed, its all about the fun!
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Give me the 30 extra fighters you had and I doubt you would be so confident.
Reread my last sentence and I think you'll find that I'm agreeing with your OP. No Allied plan would have made the attacks successful last night given Allied manpower shortage. The fact that escorts were so easily stripped away from their charges only made thing easier for the Axis.
Player attendance has become increasingly more of a major factor in determining a frame's success. Remember last year that I outlined how the traditional 55/45 side split applied to an assault design resulted in defender losses over 60% because a gross manpower shortage was essentially built into the design.
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i wonder why keep catering to axis squads soon enough they will have the sand box to them selves
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i wonder why keep catering to axis squads soon enough they will have the sand box to them selves
You're right, axis should have to put a third of their guys in Ju88s in every latewar scenario instead of every other one.
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You're right, axis should have to put a third of their guys in Ju88s in every latewar scenario instead of every other one.
:rofl
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i wonder why keep catering to axis squads soon enough they will have the sand box to them selves
:headscratch:
Like axis having to find and bomb moving ships, controllable by the Allied CO, with JU-88's vs. Allies getting to bomb stationary hangars on a stationary island with B-26's?
Is that the type of catering you mean?
:rofl
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You're right, axis should have to put a third of their guys in Ju88s in every latewar scenario instead of every other one.
:devil :airplane:
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:headscratch:
Like axis having to find and bomb moving ships, controllable by the Allied CO, with JU-88's vs. Allies getting to bomb stationary hangars on a stationary island with B-26's?
Is that the type of catering you mean?
:rofl
:rofl
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Please lets keep it civil and mature as CM's we do need and want your input on how the events go. Slinging mud really does not help us make better scenarios. Also lets keep this on track lilmak started this thread about participation numbers it is important to be as close as possible to getting squads to show up with committed numbers. That said real life is a problem we all know it. :salute
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I honestly do not see setups catering to any one side or the other or squadrons for that matter. Pigs fly both sides of FSO and that is just simply a baseless statement.
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waystin you are correct pigs fly both sides so does G3 but go look at the axis squads that never fly allied side thats where some have become very frustrated with FSO. in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied. Ill say no more here to keep it clean <<S>>
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waystin you are correct pigs fly both sides so does G3 but go look at the axis squads that never fly allied side thats where some have become very frustrated with FSO. in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied. Ill say no more here to keep it clean <<S>>
I planned on starting a thread after frame 3 but now that you've brought it up...
Anti-Horde will be going all Allied for FSO and combat challenge come 2018...And it is definitely not because I want to...But I am out voted...I will still be doing all my scenario flying from the Axis side :aok
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waystin you are correct pigs fly both sides so does G3 but go look at the axis squads that never fly allied side thats where some have become very frustrated with FSO. in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied. Ill say no more here to keep it clean <<S>>
I understand ya bud. I think we have all had this discussion before. It's my understanding and CM's can correct me on this that there are no guarantees to a side or a ride. If just saying if every squadron in FSO requested the Axis side next month then in fairness some of those resident "Axis" squadrons would end up flying Allies. Probably would never happen because there some who are just as dedicated to Allied rides. What it does do is make room for squads that like that variety like the Pigs or G3 to move around.
<S>
I planned on starting a thread after frame 3 but now that you've brought it up...
Anti-Horde will be going all Allied for FSO and combat challenge come 2018...And it is definitely not because I want to...But I am out voted...I will still be doing all my scenario flying from the Axis side :aok
This is part of the fun of being a CO. Carrying out your orders. LOL :rofl
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waystin you are correct pigs fly both sides so does G3 but go look at the axis squads that never fly allied side thats where some have become very frustrated with FSO. in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied. Ill say no more here to keep it clean <<S>>
I will take that challenge. The next Eastern Front setup that has a Yak-3 or LA, KN will fly Allied.
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Here's the thing. There will alway be a disparity between commitment and actual numbers but there seems to be a trend of COs not updating those numbers. In frame one I assigned two squads to B-26s so I could virtually guarantee that I met the minimum requirement. At squad minimum commitment numbers, they should've had 11 pilots. Before the start of the frame I found out we were 3 or 4 short of the 10 required B-26 pilots. This is something that neither the CMs or CICs can control.
This should be an anomaly but after my experience in frame one and the shortfall in frame two it appears that it's not. My point is we're dependent on the COs to do their best to get the numbers they are promising so FSO can continue to be as fun as possible. Defense in FSO is fundamentally easier than attack. This week the frame was lost before flight was opened simply because the the numbers were so far off. This is the responsibility of the COs on all sides.
I'd like to ask that COs take a long hard look at their numbers. Be honest with yourself. Look at what you've been fielding and error on the side of caution. If you can't consistently get to 4 (the minimum) it's time to consider disbanding your crew or approaching another squad and combining forces. There are plenty of squads who would certainly like to have an extra man or two on Fridays.
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Not that it matters,
but JG11 in every PTO list as "NO PREFFERENCE" But we end up AXIS every time, except one long ago we ended up flying blue bombers.
I could not see a dedicated F4U group being assigned ZEROs in a PTO frame that included their historical unit. Not that they would get F4U in every frame, but should at least get their ride one frame in that month.
Every month someone is not happy, there is no way to make everyone happy, that is just a fact. The best we can do is show up and fly our assigned ride every week, and notify your CO if you are not going to make it so numbers can be adjusted.
I enjoy flying with and against you guys and FSO and Scenarios are the only reason I keep this account.
:salute
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Oops. Meant to edit and hit quote.
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in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied.
I never thought I would see a day when a statement like this was even possible.
I remember the days of low turnout, no shows or quick death for a A6M due to being handed B5Ms.
I remember the squads who did not want German Iron because what few airframes we had that matched the timeframe were not in their wheel house and they ended up being face shot by Il-2s and run home by a horde of La-5s.
HTC and the CMs have given us more to work with these days. Most of the squads and individuals players have been here long enough to know what to do with planes they don't usually fly.
I'm curious how often too many squads request Axis now.
As for this month, the OP mentions the Allied side should have a 10% advantage. The writeup calls for 52-48 Allied favored (net 4%) and the side assignments show a 2 player advantage for Axis. I have not seen objectives so this may not be correct anymore. If nothing has changed from the assignments I see than having the Axis only defend and Allied fielding bombers? What could go wrong? And low turnout just compounds the problem.
As for Biggamer's quote, I leave it to the community to sort out if a change is needed.
But I :salute the Axis centric squads that took us through a dark and heated time, made commitment levels and sometimes planned/ fought a victory with a poor hand.
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Not that it matters,
but JG11 in every PTO list as "NO PREFFERENCE" But we end up AXIS every time, except one long ago we ended up flying blue bombers.
I could not see a dedicated F4U group being assigned ZEROs in a PTO frame that included their historical unit. Not that they would get F4U in every frame, but should at least get their ride one frame in that month.
Every month someone is not happy, there is no way to make everyone happy, that is just a fact. The best we can do is show up and fly our assigned ride every week, and notify your CO if you are not going to make it so numbers can be adjusted.
I enjoy flying with and against you guys and FSO and Scenarios are the only reason I keep this account.
:salute
Ditto,
I hate to be "that guy" but it happened to us several years back. There were hellkittys in the setup, we asked for allied,( there were like maybe 6-7 blue plane squads then) and got axis.
We were "asked" to take one for the team ( meaning FSO as a whole) due to the fact so many had asked for allied by one of the CM's after side assignments came out. Ever try explaining to upwards of 15-20 guys who bled blue planes, and were chomping at the bit to get them, the reason why we got meatballs, and that in the long run it was what was best for everyone?
Lets face it, how often do you even see hellcats in a PTO setup anymore? Considering there are maybe 2 PTO's a year, why would a squad in it's right mind who claims to be a " blue plane" squad even fly FSO?
Has anyone even considered that the last few years?
Things that make ya go Hmmm :headscratch:
Your last sentence! I do totally relate! I have to admit though, $5 a nite at times is hard to justify, my squaddies make it worth it :aok
:salute
jdog
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Ditto,
I hate to be "that guy" but it happened to us several years back. There were hellkittys in the setup, we asked for allied,( there were like maybe 6-7 blue plane squads then) and got axis.
We were "asked" to take one for the team ( meaning FSO as a whole) due to the fact so many had asked for allied by one of the CM's after side assignments came out. Ever try explaining to upwards of 15-20 guys who bled blue planes, and were chomping at the bit to get them, the reason why we got meatballs, and that in the long run it was what was best for everyone?
Lets face it, how often do you even see hellcats in a PTO setup anymore? Considering there are maybe 2 PTO's a year, why would a squad in it's right mind who claims to be a " blue plane" squad even fly FSO?
Has anyone even considered that the last few years?
Things that make ya go Hmmm :headscratch:
Your last sentence! I do totally relate! I have to admit though, $5 a nite at times is hard to justify, my squaddies make it worth it :aok
:salute
jdog
This is unfortunate that your squad was forced to fly Axis in this case since your squad has "F6F Hellcat" outright stated as your squad ride. There is no reason that any of the other usual ETO allied squads could not have been moved to Axis instead on the PTO.
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waystin you are correct pigs fly both sides so does G3 but go look at the axis squads that never fly allied side thats where some have become very frustrated with FSO. in order to balance things out some of them are gonna have to do what they dont wanna do and that is fly allied. Ill say no more here to keep it clean <<S>>
What?
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:furious I am confused and a bit angry that the P-47D-25 is not being used in the FSO's current (October 2017 - Daily Grind) when the plane was clearly available in England at that time! As was the 109G-6 for the Axis, but in limited numbers!
For the most part, the past couple years I have seen FSO evolving into an Axis is the Golden Child set of scenarios, where Axis is given all the advantages in the mid to late war era. If you scenario designers are going to make historical reenactments in AH3, then match the aircraft up accurately as to performance, and not just the standard, "Oh that model wasn't around" Bull Malarkey!
HTC seems hellbent on ruining their once stellar child, with mostly inaccurate flight modeling and somewhat the damage modeling. In short, HTC got lazy with their coading. No new maps from them, and there is no reason whatsoever that the FSO maps, could not be used in rotation in the MA! Just too lazy to make it 3 sided on their part.
-=0=- RANT OFF -=0=-
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Uh the FSO maps are far too big for the MA and where do you put the third country?
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I don't envy the CMs or CiC's juggling preferences at all.
It's tough to predict shortages though. I know for myself, I am intending to make every frame. The stuff that causes that not to happen quite often only has a couple hours notice. I would imagine the majority of the FSO players are in the same boat.
Wiley.
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I don't envy the CMs or CiC's juggling preferences at all.
It's tough to predict shortages though. I know for myself, I am intending to make every frame. The stuff that causes that not to happen quite often only has a couple hours notice. I would imagine the majority of the FSO players are in the same boat.
Wiley.
This is true Wiley. It's like church for me and most of the Pigs.
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This is true Wiley. It's like church for me and most of the Pigs.
Heh that's funny. The wife and I's term is "Friday night is holy ground". Occasionally it gets preempted, but we try to avoid it as much as possible.
Unfortunately at the end of the day this is a hobby not a job. Sometimes people just don't show. About the only thing I can see possibly being slightly predictable is if you know your people are unlikely to show for roles they don't like. Other than that, it's mostly random IMO.
Wiley.
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:furious I am confused and a bit angry that the P-47D-25 is not being used in the FSO's current (October 2017 - Daily Grind) when the plane was clearly available in England at that time! As was the 109G-6 for the Axis, but in limited numbers!
I don't believe the D25 was delivered until nearly a year later.