General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BigPun on November 15, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
Title: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: BigPun on November 15, 2017, 09:17:33 PM
Getting out and away from the VH requires backing up and turning and backing up some more which leads to unintentional kill shots and may make the VH easier to camp. I suggest making them easier to get out of or remove them altogether.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: 100Coogn on November 15, 2017, 09:50:42 PM
Getting out and away from the VH requires backing up and turning and backing up some more which leads to unintentional kill shots and may make the VH easier to camp. I suggest making them easier to get out of or remove them altogether.
I hope HiTech doesn't get pissed with people flaming his newest idea to the game. Maybe it works. Maybe not. Give it a chance at least. A few days is hardly enough time to evaluate things isn't it?
Keep pushing forward HT :rock
Coogan
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: 1MADDOG1 on November 15, 2017, 11:21:20 PM
So tired of HTC fixing what AIN'T BROKE! Want more players? Go back to Aces HighII with the eye candy you have now. After 11 years of seeing what's gone on with the game, getting more and more disgusted.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: pembquist on November 16, 2017, 12:57:39 AM
Jeeze, its just a first attempt to fix a complaint about spawn camping the spawn vh. I'm not sure its worth the backing and filling all the time in order to remove a problem that only happens some of the time but I appreciate the effort and response. I think he could have just put one wall at the back of the spawn hanger on the V bases but I'm guessing what you do to one you do to all unless you build individual walls for all the V bases on all the maps. Camping from the front isn't too much of a problem and if there was just a bit more spawn lag camping from the rear wouldn't be either. On the other hand taking a V-Base as is pretty much requires either camping or having all the hangers down or being really really sneaky. All you have to do is lurch out of the hanger and fire one HE round at the map room/troops and they are busted, or thats the way it was before the walls so maybe it is a little easier to take a v base now with tank dueling vs spawn camping or base closure.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Dundee on November 16, 2017, 01:08:21 AM
So tired of HTC fixing what AIN'T BROKE! Want more players? Go back to Aces HighII with the eye candy you have now. After 11 years of seeing what's gone on with the game, getting more and more disgusted.
I totally agree......
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Dundee on November 16, 2017, 01:10:21 AM
Jeeze, its just a first attempt to fix a complaint about spawn camping the spawn vh. I'm not sure its worth the backing and filling all the time in order to remove a problem that only happens some of the time but I appreciate the effort and response. I think he could have just put one wall at the back of the spawn hanger on the V bases but I'm guessing what you do to one you do to all unless you build individual walls for all the V bases on all the maps. Camping from the front isn't too much of a problem and if there was just a bit more spawn lag camping from the rear wouldn't be either. On the other hand taking a V-Base as is pretty much requires either camping or having all the hangers down or being really really sneaky. All you have to do is lurch out of the hanger and fire one HE round at the map room/troops and they are busted, or thats the way it was before the walls so maybe it is a little easier to take a v base now with tank dueling vs spawn camping or base closure.
Well if you had a choice, at a V Base, of which hangar to come out of.......problem solved
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: 27th on November 16, 2017, 02:02:15 AM
Well if you had a choice, at a V Base, of which hangar to come out of.......problem solved [/quote
Yes. :salute
27th]
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: CAV on November 16, 2017, 10:24:22 AM
The problem isn't the spawn points.......
It is the players..
If you can get GVers to push a base, the first thing they want to do is camp the spawn, so they can run up their score/kills.
Why is not the first plan (and best) to take down the hangers??? HTC would not need to try and fix spawn hangers then. He would be able to use his time making new planes or something.
CAV
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Lusche on November 16, 2017, 10:38:12 AM
Why is not the first plan (and best) to take down the hangers???
Because someone else would come to the BBS: "The problems are the players. Why can't they leave the hangars up so that you at least can try to fight them?"
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: TWCAxew on November 16, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
If you can get GVers to push a base, the first thing they want to do is camp the spawn, so they can run up their score/kills.
Why is not the first plan (and best) to take down the hangers??? HTC would not need to try and fix spawn hangers then. He would be able to use his time making new planes or something.
CAV
No its a design flaw. The tools are given to the players to do this kind of stuff, its only natural to get the upper hand in any situation. Imagine: " oh lets not camp the VH while we try to take the base" tanks ups and kills the troops. Great. Could have been prevented by camping the spawn.
dutchVII
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: TDeacon on November 16, 2017, 11:00:04 AM
Firstly, I had no problem with the existing system, including spawn camping. Just part of the game IMHO, even though in AH2, I always preferred maneuvering tactics and going for elevation to lying in wait. Meaning that I wasn't a big spawn camper.
But if you must change it, what's wrong with reverting to no walls, and allowing spawning GV to face either forward or back (like a plane on a runway)? Problem solved (especially if you up a Tiger II).
MH
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: popeye on November 16, 2017, 11:27:59 AM
(dumb idea deleted...)
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: TDeacon on November 16, 2017, 11:37:59 AM
The only way this could be difficult to program is if game is using someone else's software toolkit for spawns.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: 8thJinx on November 16, 2017, 11:46:02 AM
I think everyone might be forgetting that in AH2 we had the buildings, an ord bunker, and trees to limit completely unfettered camping of a hangar from 50 yards out or more (except when you were across the field). The walls in AH3 look like they are an attempt to mimic that cover.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Mano on November 16, 2017, 11:59:35 AM
give it a try. Stopping the campers encourages more GV fights with tanks rolling out vs not able to get off the spawn.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Lusche on November 16, 2017, 12:07:20 PM
give it a try. Stopping the campers encourages more GV fights with tanks rolling out vs not able to get off the spawn.
Have you tried? :)
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: zack1234 on November 16, 2017, 01:16:31 PM
Anyone driving GV’s is defo light on their feet :old:
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vinkman on November 16, 2017, 01:41:54 PM
I think being able to chose the direction you are facing when you spawn would be a nice compromise to the spawn problem. When camping a VH it's ducks in a barrel because the Vehicle and turret always face the same way, so if you get behind the hangar, the vehicle inside has to spin the turret 180 deg to shoot. That simply takes too long so the vehicle has no fighting chance. This is similar when camping a Spawn in the open field.
My proposal is add an orientation selector to one of the open squares on the clipboard spawn controller. I don't think there is a spawn that uses all 9 buttons. so the routine would add the orientation selector to an open slot. The selector is an arrow with a button at the end that you click and grab, then drag around the circle. Then when the spawn location is picked, the vehicle spawns facing in the direction of the arrow.
This gives the spawning Vehicle a fighting chance to correct and turn on repeated spawns if the spawn is camped.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: bustr on November 16, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
The original complaint was a tank camping the open back door of the vHanger. Remove the front door half of the new surrounding wall. Yes at ports you can shoot down over the wall into the back door. I suspect a few terrains have an elevation farther out that will facilitate shots like that with good optics. The original thing players wanted fixed was getting railed from behind when they spawned into the hanger. Even the back wall segment with 20ft of right angle going toward the front of the hanger on each side would have solved this. At that point if a bad guy can get inside of the wall, that field deserves what it gets. Then just bomb the guy.
Remove the part outlined in yellow. Someone is going to hide along the side and camp the front in that manner unless this is reduced to only the back wall or close the back door.
(https://s20.postimg.org/h7xox5tzh/v_Hwall.jpg)
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vinkman on November 16, 2017, 02:23:01 PM
The original complaint was a tank camping the open back door of the vHanger. Remove the front door half of the new surrounding wall. Yes at ports you can shoot down over the wall into the back door. I suspect a few terrains have an elevation farther out that will facilitate shots like that with good optics. The original thing players wanted fixed was getting railed from behind when they spawned into the hanger. Even the back wall segment with 20ft of right angle going toward the front of the hanger on each side would have solved this. At that point if a bad guy can get inside of the wall, that field deserves what it gets. Then just bomb the guy.
Remove the part outlined in yellow. Someone is going to hide along the side and camp the front in that manner unless this is reduced to only the back wall or close the back door.
(https://s20.postimg.org/h7xox5tzh/v_Hwall.jpg)
Or just use my idea. :aok
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Mano on November 16, 2017, 05:40:33 PM
yeah. My M-8 came out just fine, but it will be difficult for a Wirb or any other gv that does not turn well :) If the walls were located further away from the hangar that would help.
I also thought about the terrains that have a hill behind the vh. GV's could shoot over the walls and kill the spawner. Might need a wall up there too.
:salute
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: TDeacon on November 16, 2017, 10:06:10 PM
The original complaint was a tank camping the open back door of the vHanger. Remove the front door half of the new surrounding wall. Yes at ports you can shoot down over the wall into the back door. I suspect a few terrains have an elevation farther out that will facilitate shots like that with good optics. The original thing players wanted fixed was getting railed from behind when they spawned into the hanger. Even the back wall segment with 20ft of right angle going toward the front of the hanger on each side would have solved this. At that point if a bad guy can get inside of the wall, that field deserves what it gets. Then just bomb the guy.
Remove the part outlined in yellow. Someone is going to hide along the side and camp the front in that manner unless this is reduced to only the back wall or close the back door.
(https://s20.postimg.org/h7xox5tzh/v_Hwall.jpg)
Bustr; why all the complication? Just allow GVs to choose facing as AC currently do on runways (as suggested by many posts, including Vinkman's and mine). Why create a massive, ugly, flawed complex of walls, when it can be solved more easily??? Remember the "How many (ethnic group here) does it take to change a lightbulb?" jokes ...
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: buddyshamrock on November 16, 2017, 11:08:12 PM
Well it's a two way street ... if troops are running it will take longer to get to them ... sooo .... barriers may protect but they also add to a bases vulnerability too.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: lunatic1 on November 17, 2017, 06:43:34 AM
Poor HiTech-he's dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: hitech on November 17, 2017, 08:23:29 AM
Bustr; why all the complication? Just allow GVs to choose facing as AC currently do on runways (as suggested by many posts, including Vinkman's and mine). Why create a massive, ugly, flawed complex of walls, when it can be solved more easily??? Remember the "How many (ethnic group here) does it take to change a lightbulb?" jokes ...
Because this is far more complex then you seem to think.
HiTech
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: JunkyII on November 17, 2017, 08:47:03 AM
To answer the "why do people camp instead of taking down the VH"....killing 4 VHs takes awhile and a lot of ammunition which is hard for 1 tank...which is what the normal number is for GV spawn camps I see.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Traveler on November 17, 2017, 08:51:14 AM
Because this is far more complex then you seem to think.
HiTech
Would it be to complex to allow more than one spawn point on a base? Have a spawn point in each VH on a vehicle base, allow the player to pick which VH they spawn in and on a base with only one VH, have 4 different spawn points on the base. Allow the player to pick which one they spawn on or make it random which ever is the easiest for you to implement.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: JunkyII on November 17, 2017, 08:57:34 AM
Would it be to complex to allow more than one spawn point on a base? Have a spawn point in each VH on a vehicle base, allow the player to pick which VH they spawn in and on a base with only one VH, have 4 different spawn points on the base. Allow the player to pick which one they spawn on or make it random which ever is the easiest for you to implement.
Pretty sure he would physically have to set it for every map at every VH manually if I understand the spawns correctly....while attaching them to a button on the clip board.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: ONTOS on November 17, 2017, 08:59:36 AM
Tear down that wall Mr. HTC
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Traveler on November 17, 2017, 09:33:33 AM
Pretty sure he would physically have to set it for every map at every VH manually if I understand the spawns correctly....while attaching them to a button on the clip board.
"He" he who? The Map maker? isn't that that the guy stuck with the task, HTC doesn't do the maps, right? I thought all the maps were built by players. HTC would have to change the code behind the object that the map maker puts on the map. That object and there are a lot of objects, one for each different field, but that contains the spawn points, right? Or am I missing something. I think the question would be more like which Objects contains a VH, change the code in those objects and reassemble the maps with the new objects.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: The Fugitive on November 17, 2017, 10:14:08 AM
once the map is accepted by HTC is becomes theirs. The map maker no longer has access to the map.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Traveler on November 17, 2017, 10:19:02 AM
once the map is accepted by HTC is becomes theirs. The map maker no longer has access to the map.
I undersand, the Map maker using and places objects to build the map. the programming is in the objects, if an object changes, the map is just recompiled to contain the new code, it doesn't go back to the map maker. Right or do I have that wrong? When HTC added the barriers it was added to the hanger object, and recompiled into the object and that object was already in the Map.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 17, 2017, 11:28:24 AM
If you can get GVers to push a base, the first thing they want to do is camp the spawn, so they can run up their score/kills.
Why is not the first plan (and best) to take down the hangers??? HTC would not need to try and fix spawn hangers then. He would be able to use his time making new planes or something.
CAV
As already expressed, it takes far too much energy to drop all hangars. A single T-34, properly driven can eliminate all guns and effectively hold down the spawn hangar, while calling for a single M3. That means two players to take a field and adding an enclosure does little to tip that equation, I must confess. All I have to do is enter the enclosure and the chances of taking the field are immensely increased. Not only can he no longer spawn and fire on my M3 or troops, he is trapped and must deal with the double threat of my butt shot and dropped ordinance, from which it is very difficult to escape. The shelter is in effect a death trap.
I think being able to chose the direction you are facing when you spawn would be a nice compromise to the spawn problem. When camping a VH it's ducks in a barrel because the Vehicle and turret always face the same way, so if you get behind the hangar, the vehicle inside has to spin the turret 180 deg to shoot. That simply takes too long so the vehicle has no fighting chance. This is similar when camping a Spawn in the open field.
My proposal is add an orientation selector to one of the open squares on the clipboard spawn controller. I don't think there is a spawn that uses all 9 buttons. so the routine would add the orientation selector to an open slot. The selector is an arrow with a button at the end that you click and grab, then drag around the circle. Then when the spawn location is picked, the vehicle spawns facing in the direction of the arrow.
This gives the spawning Vehicle a fighting chance to correct and turn on repeated spawns if the spawn is camped.
This is a proposal I have considered and endorse.
If you must use an enclosure, you have to give it defensibility. The inner walls should be sloped, so a defending tank can escape from any angle, while the outer walls should be steeply sloped to prevent incursion. There should be a small barrier on the back to protect from ranged camp shots and it should be fashioned to allow fire points. Finally, it needs to allow unrestricted view of the map room from the spawn position. See below:
If you changed the style to something like this and allowed for reversed spawning, it would greatly compound the difficulty of setting camp on spawn hangars, without unduly complicating base defense. This enclosure should work at all fields, perhaps by raising the barrier to accommodate ports.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: lunatic1 on November 17, 2017, 11:41:30 AM
To answer the "why do people camp instead of taking down the VH"....killing 4 VHs takes awhile and a lot of ammunition which is hard for 1 tank...which is what the normal number is for GV spawn camps I see.
that's why you send in bombers to drop vh's 1st
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vinkman on November 17, 2017, 11:42:29 AM
"He" he who? The Map maker? isn't that that the guy stuck with the task, HTC doesn't do the maps, right? I thought all the maps were built by players. HTC would have to change the code behind the object that the map maker puts on the map. That object and there are a lot of objects, one for each different field, but that contains the spawn points, right? Or am I missing something. I think the question would be more like which Objects contains a VH, change the code in those objects and reassemble the maps with the new objects.
The code is there....you can set spawn points on a custom map if you wanted....but you would have to set them for what 100 VHs per a map...pretty sure he has more stuff going on.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Traveler on November 17, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
The code is there....you can set spawn points on a custom map if you wanted....but you would have to set them for what 100 VHs per a map...pretty sure he has more stuff going on.
I thought the spawns where part of the Vbase and airfield objects, when HTC added the barriers to the VH Object, he changed one object, not each VH Object on a map. That was accomplished by recompiling the Object and map. He only changed the code one time.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: hitech on November 17, 2017, 01:30:14 PM
I thought the spawns where part of the Vbase and airfield objects, when HTC added the barriers to the VH Object, he changed one object, not each VH Object on a map. That was accomplished by recompiling the Object and map. He only changed the code one time.
It is far more complex than you believe.
HiTech
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: TDeacon on November 17, 2017, 01:32:02 PM
Because this is far more complex then you seem to think.
HiTech
OK; I don't how much of the game code you have direct access to, so I believe you. Thanks for the response. What about:
(1) Adding a short invulnerability delay, sufficient for the spawned GV to get out the front door, thus avoiding the rear armor shot? (2) Allowing player to choose which VH to spawn from (if more than 1; admittedly won't help airfields)?
MH
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Max on November 17, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
Firstly, I had no problem with the existing system, including spawn camping. Just part of the game IMHO, even though in AH2, I always preferred maneuvering tactics and going for elevation to lying in wait. Meaning that I wasn't a big spawn camper.
But if you must change it, what's wrong with reverting to no walls, and allowing spawning GV to face either forward or back (like a plane on a runway)? Problem solved (especially if you up a Tiger II).
MH
:aok
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Tilt on November 17, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
The idea seems beneficial.........execution a bit crude ......... a revetment or glacis with initial internal slope of 7 degrees (able to pop up and shoot over) would make the spawn defendable except where the camper was up high.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: NatCigg on November 17, 2017, 02:37:58 PM
So tired of HTC fixing what AIN'T BROKE! Want more players? Go back to Aces HighII with the eye candy you have now. After 11 years of seeing what's gone on with the game, getting more and more disgusted.
It all started when he lowered the Dar. Attacking paying customers to suit the royal subjects. Another lesson in history. That goffy video they put out this year would not appease the fighter jocks, nore the team players, I think the gv players were a little :O.
Camping the vh brought excitement for the gv players, on both sides! :old:
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: rvflyer on November 17, 2017, 03:41:38 PM
I agree, the new game is really getting sucky. Why don't we just put the nme gv icon on the map also to make it easier. The GV quadrant thing is nutz, why are we dumbing down the game play? It is becoming more and more a point and shoot game instead of strategy and putting in a little effort to find the GV location instead of just pointing them out that is absolutely no fun at all. The GV wall thing would be ok but it is way overdone, maybe put a wall behind so GVs can't shoot you in the backside but not the walls as they are now. All of the years I have played I have supported what HT has done to the game but it is now getting ridiculous, they trying to make the game acceptable to the new generation of players that don't want to have to put in any effort to play the game they just want you to point out the nme so they can shoot at it so they can get their name in lights to get the WTGs. As a long time player i am getting tired of newbies dictating how the game should be played and am just about to pull the plug. I remember back when the towns were simple and everyone had a blast playing this game. There were great squads like the LTARs, JG3-UDets etc. Seems those days are gone for ever.
So tired of HTC fixing what AIN'T BROKE! Want more players? Go back to Aces HighII with the eye candy you have now. After 11 years of seeing what's gone on with the game, getting more and more disgusted.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: rvflyer on November 17, 2017, 03:42:56 PM
Well if you had a choice, at a V Base, of which hangar to come out of.......problem solved
+100
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: CAV on November 17, 2017, 08:57:04 PM
Quote
Well if you had a choice, at a V Base, of which hangar to come out of.......problem solved
+1000
And for non-hanger spawn points, the fix is you always spawn in 2.5K from the nearest bad guy. Out of main gun range, with room to maneuver. Maybe that put an end to useless spawn point battles. You and your friends go out to camp a spawn point, and they spawn in 2.5k out.... all around you. :huh
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: asterix on November 18, 2017, 01:44:00 AM
My experience with VH barriers was positive. Did not manage to get out a Wirb in one smooth driving though, was not a problem with older T34 for example. Saw one successful camping. Do not know if this is ideal solution but step in the right direction IMHO. My first impression is that GV combat got a lot better. There was more moving around and shooting while moving instead of lazy cats hiding all around. When VH got camped you could use a spawn that was close to enemy spawn to intercept M3s and other GVs while using vehicle quadrant. So VH camper became less important because you could still have GV combat and the person camping directly behind a VH could not shoot other vehicles outside the walls. :aok
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: waystin2 on November 18, 2017, 08:07:25 AM
The barriers do need to be adjusted outward a bit so you can make the turns to get out of the enclosures.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vraciu on November 18, 2017, 08:24:47 AM
Killshooter for spawn campers. Done. :)
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: +Kilroy+ on November 18, 2017, 10:18:36 AM
Er not quite. Define it. I can't shoot an enemy tank on his own base? Or maybe when he drives into his own hangar? Is that a safe zone? can he shoot out? Maybe I can't shoot him when he spawns? For how long? Ya, not quite done.
If I could ask, why doesn't he just up himself and a bunch of his buddies and PROVE the base take is invalid by overwhelming whatever campers are present, like we USUALLY do? Because maybe people don't come here and post about thwarted takes is why I am thinking he needs some sort of killshootrz.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: NatCigg on November 18, 2017, 10:25:04 AM
Er not quite. Define it. I can't shoot an enemy tank on his own base? Or maybe when he drives into his own hangar? Is that a safe zone? can he shoot out? Maybe I can't shoot him when he spawns? For how long? Ya, not quite done.
If I could ask, why doesn't he just up himself and a bunch of his buddies and PROVE the base take is invalid by overwhelming whatever campers are present, like we USUALLY do? Because maybe people don't come here and post about thwarted takes is why I am thinking he needs some sort of killshootrz.
That's up to Hitech. If you shoot someone within X seconds of spawning YOU take damage. Or your weapons are disabled for X seconds similar to the lockdown on rapid control movement.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: 8thJinx on November 18, 2017, 03:11:15 PM
I think the answer lies in physical cover, not coding when someone shoots or gets shot at. We had the GV spawn hangars in AH2 that had cover on 2 sides, but you could still get camped from immediately behind. I also don't think it's that huge of an issue that you have to do anything more than add cover. Maybe the walls are the final solution, maybe it's an iteration.
I also firmly believe that answers lie in the terrains themselves. Was it easy to camp hangars in AH2? Of course it was. Were people screaming about it to the point that management had to come in and do something? Not in all the years I played it. In all the years I played AH2, I don't recall a cheap camp of a hangar happening more than once a gaming session, tops, not counting a flat out horde at a base. I also seem to recall most of the GV fighting occurred out at the spawns and at the approaches to towns and fields. It's so tedious and boring in those areas right now that the focus of activity is squarely on get-to-the-field-and-camp.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vraciu on November 18, 2017, 03:56:29 PM
Well, the most elegant may be the door thing... :headscratch:
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: ghi on November 19, 2017, 08:18:02 PM
So tired of HTC fixing what AIN'T BROKE! Want more players? Go back to Aces HighII with the eye candy you have now. After 11 years of seeing what's gone on with the game, getting more and more disgusted.
Agreed!
They are fixing the effect not the cause; the main tumor is located in game rewarding system; Why was this change needed? why do people camp the vh, pick vulch ....even a 2nd account ? Simple answer ; for kills and score, this is what the game is rewarding only, lowest selfish qualities in human behavior; the strategy, team vs team kind of fight was eliminated with every new version and with it 100s of players not interested in score. Few weeks ago, i witnessed a map reset/ change and was hilarious watching all the bomber pilots rushing towards fresh 100% up untouched factories, like greedy door crushers at Wall Mart during Boxing day.The teams, squads are not even needed, people are competing for a spot on main website fighting for strats bombing, best camping spot, easy kill. I'm sensing negative aura in MA, bad vibes , look at game chat its polluted with concentrated high ego entities surfacing after a large exodus of players not interested in score and ranks. Witnessing the decline of this great game, this movie "Time machine" comes in my mind; Unfortunately, this is what the game was about since the beginning, was all about score and rank, this selfish morlocks, a creation of HTC game rewarding settings were always in the background feeding on others and new comers to satisfy their ego;
....but who am i to question 18 years of Aces High evolution; :rofl
Now seems like they run out of fresh meat and start feeding on each other like this cannibal rats on board of drifting Russian ship; "New documentary investigates whether mysterious shipwreck which appeared off the Californian coast is the 'cannibal rat-infested' Russian ghost ship Lyubov Orlova" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5097707/Ship-washes-California-beach.html
They are fixing the effect not the cause; the main tumor is located in game rewarding system; Why was this change needed? why do people camp the vh, pick vulch ....even a 2nd account ? Simple answer ; for kills and score, this is what the game is rewarding only, lowest selfish qualities in human behavior; the strategy, team vs team kind of fight was eliminated with every new version and with it 100s of players not interested in score.
Unfortunately sir, you are regrettably mistaken. The essential reward system is valid and consistent with the era, the ways that players actualize that reward with activities like picking and vulching are artificially allowed by the game. Like the unreality of M3's supplying town in response to attack, when one asks, was construction of towns, factories and large civic structures, ever even remotely as fast as smashing it all to bits? For me, camping is too close to sieging and people may find other allegories to justify picking and vulching.
However the reward system is valid because it almost exactly mirrors reality. How do you think the mothers and widows felt, watching that pony zip around in THEIR sky, with a tiny little swastika on the nose, symbolizing the crushed hopes and dreams of their failed heritage? Hell, that's his kill man! How dare you even think to suggest he showcase it a little more tactfully. Granted patriotism existed, but when the tour was up, "you sure you wouldn't like to fly just one more sortie with the boys, for old times' sake?" "Hell no! Unless it's a few laps around the hangar." Everything was about the kill, because otherwise you were the kill, which is also true here. During the war, it was your job to establish a presence. In a tank behind the lines, behind a bombsite, you had to be present, doing things, usually dispensing ordinance. As part of doing that, you had to defend yourself, sometimes it was your job to defend others. If you screwed up, if you dropped your guard it cost you DEARLY. The goal was not killing but as part of disabling your war machine, death was the usual side effect. Strong camaraderie was an inevitable survivalistic part of that reality.
So now we are invincible. Is it any wonder we talk like gods? What is the solution? I don't know, why didn't they vulch in WWII? Well they kind of did. At Pearl Harbor and also here, you can clearly see the propellers spinning on the HE-111:
Also, I think what sells subscriptions, what fills the skies is the urge to count kills. I think, after the first couple thousand, we look up from the carnage, bloodshed and selfish kill counting and ask ourselves, is there more to life? I know that when I am "standing" on the battlefield, with noobs impaling themselves on my lance as fast as I can scrape them off, I think, 20-30 more, so what. I want THIS kill to count for something. And this one and so on. So we look to loftier goals, the country, the win, something the great killmaster in the sky would be proud of -- but we can't expect the noobs to know, or respect this. They have to die a thousand times, or kill a thousand times to get there and they need someone that understands this to guide them, sir.
Also the thread is about barriers. The current one is a nightmare for defending wirbles. You have to reverse twice to clear the enclosure before the bombers arrive, it's maddening. I designed an enclosure that is as effective at protecting spawning tanks, if not more so and it allows immediate and rapid dispersal of vehicles. Please consider and comment about switching to something more like this style: (https://i.imgur.com/PSJAMER.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Mt8CCxw.jpg)
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: John Galt on November 21, 2017, 03:39:24 PM
Firstly, I had no problem with the existing system, including spawn camping. Just part of the game IMHO, even though in AH2, I always preferred maneuvering tactics and going for elevation to lying in wait. Meaning that I wasn't a big spawn camper.
But if you must change it, what's wrong with reverting to no walls, and allowing spawning GV to face either forward or back (like a plane on a runway)? Problem solved (especially if you up a Tiger II).
MH
I really like the directional Idea.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: JimmyC on November 24, 2017, 02:36:45 AM
Camping a hanger is fun..there i said it.. Vulching is fun too..!! Even HiTech said vulching is fun if I remember corectly.. If you get in to a position to keep on top of the enemy why not reap the rewards till either your comrades get the job done or you all are repelled by a counterstrike of mass uppers desperate to defend their patch before all is lost..it's fun
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: zack1234 on November 24, 2017, 07:55:12 AM
Is the wall made out of Accrington Brick or wood?
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: lunatic1 on November 24, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
The original complaint was a tank camping the open back door of the vHanger. Remove the front door half of the new surrounding wall. Yes at ports you can shoot down over the wall into the back door. I suspect a few terrains have an elevation farther out that will facilitate shots like that with good optics. The original thing players wanted fixed was getting railed from behind when they spawned into the hanger. Even the back wall segment with 20ft of right angle going toward the front of the hanger on each side would have solved this. At that point if a bad guy can get inside of the wall, that field deserves what it gets. Then just bomb the guy.
Remove the part outlined in yellow. Someone is going to hide along the side and camp the front in that manner unless this is reduced to only the back wall or close the back door.
(https://s20.postimg.org/h7xox5tzh/v_Hwall.jpg)
well now having used the walled VH I can tell you it's krap--it's even easier now to camp the VH with the attacker less likely to get killed.
its a nice try but its a failure.
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: Vraciu on November 24, 2017, 10:58:44 PM
If you must use an enclosure, you have to give it defensibility. The inner walls should be sloped, so a defending tank can escape from any angle, while the outer walls should be steeply sloped to prevent incursion. There should be a small barrier on the back to protect from ranged camp shots and it should be fashioned to allow fire points. Finally, it needs to allow unrestricted view of the map room from the spawn position....
+1
Title: Re: VH barriers have got to go!
Post by: SysError on November 25, 2017, 11:13:41 PM
... My proposal is add an orientation selector to one of the open squares on the clipboard spawn controller. I don't think there is a spawn that uses all 9 buttons. ...
How about one (or two) very short spawns, say 800 or 1000 feet off base? Close enough to get in fast to take on a camper quickly.