Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on November 29, 2017, 12:59:46 PM
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I know a little bit about "lag" and the fact that instantaneous feedback to all players is not possible, but I can't understand how the collision model works. A player flies into me, I go down and they keep flying!!??, now if I flew into them I could understand it.
Hitech or Skuzzy, would you be so kind as to give us a "general" explanation of how it works? It maybe all me, I just don't understand it. :salute
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Some one point him to the lusche video and thread, then I'll lock the thread.
HiTech
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I know a little bit about "lag" and the fact that instantaneous feedback to all players is not possible, but I can't understand how the collision model works. A player flies into me, I go down and they keep flying!!??, now if I flew into them I could understand it.
Hitech or Skuzzy, would you be so kind as to give us a "general" explanation of how it works? It maybe all me, I just don't understand it. :salute
Your data has to travel to your enemy's computer to display your position on his screen. This takes time, so when you are rendered on his screen, you are already in a slightly different postion on yours. It's the same the other way around. That's why your and the other players 'realities' differ a bit.
Because of this, there can be a collision on one screen and not the other:
(http://i.imgur.com/o9LsiNq.jpg)
This is the moment of collision, as seen by the P-47's pilot. The Mustang runs into his plane - but only on the Mustangs screen. And that's why only the Mustang takes damage.
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Some one point him to the lusche video and thread, then I'll lock the thread.
HiTech
Sorry, was typing my reply while you posted this.
Maybe we should create an elaborate sticky post in Help&Training, with all the pictures & stuff...
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Maybe we should create an elaborate sticky post in Help&Training, with all the pictures & stuff...
^^^ This. That first explanation post you had Lusche was pretty much perfect.
Wiley.
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it don't work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just saying the other night when landing seano rams me on landing and I get the collide love the system. and if I have 25 collidies I may win 1 may being operative :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
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it don't work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just saying the other night when landing seano rams me on landing and I get the collide love the system. and if I have 25 collidies I may win 1 may being operative :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
I don't ordinarily shout, but...
STOP RUNNING INTO STUFF AND YOU WON'T HAVE COLLISIONS.
Wiley.
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it don't work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just saying the other night when landing seano rams me on landing and I get the collide love the system. and if I have 25 collidies I may win 1 may being operative :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead
It works perfectly. When you have a collision on your computer you get a collision message that you collided. When someone collides with you on their computer you get a collision message that they collided. Two different messages, two different outcomes. There is no winning or losing collisions. There is only colliding or not colliding.
It works perfectly even if you don't understand it so no worries.
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I don't ordinarily shout, but...
STOP RUNNING INTO STUFF AND YOU WON'T HAVE COLLISIONS.
Wiley.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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It works perfectly. When you have a collision on your computer you get a collision message. This is equally true for all players. There is no winning or losing collisions. There is only colliding or not colliding.
It works perfectly even if you don't understand it so no worries.
Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
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Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
Why should they take damage when they missed you? You probably got annoyed because you mistakenly thought they hit you, you forgot for the moment that we get fooled into thinking we're flying together in the same arena but we're each in similar copies of the same arena.
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Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
Well, the alternatives are passing near another aircraft and randomly taking damage when you don't hit him, or input lag for everything you do. Personally, I think it's the best choice of the three.
Wiley.
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Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
This is where your misunderstanding. It is what your computer saw him as hitting your plane. On his computer he missed you by > < that much.
Thats why everyone who KNOWS the system says.......
I don't ordinarily shout, but...
STOP RUNNING INTO STUFF AND YOU WON'T HAVE COLLISIONS.
Wiley.
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and if I have 25 collidies I may win 1 may being operative
You are still stuck with the "one world" concept.
There is no winning and no losing. There are no dice rolled.
By the way, with all the people claiming "I lose collisions all the time" I really wonder who is that single guy winning them all the time ;)
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You are still stuck with the "one world" concept.
There is no winning and no losing. There are no dice rolled.
By the way, with all the people claiming "I lose collisions all the time" I really wonder who is that single guy winning them all the time ;)
It might be me. Most times when I collide, it's a wingtip that hits and I get home.
Wiley.
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This is where your misunderstanding. It is what your computer saw him as hitting your plane. On his computer he missed you by > < that much.
Thats why everyone who KNOWS the system says.......
Point taken. Like I said I don't really have an issue with the system, because as Wiley said this is the best option. I just wouldn't call it "perfect".
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Point taken. Like I said I don't really have an issue with the system, because as Wiley said this is the best option. I just wouldn't call it "perfect".
When a "friendly" shoots you they take the damage.
When an enemy rams you they take the damage.
Sounds perfect to me.
Aces High. Griefers need not apply.
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I know a little bit about "lag" and the fact that instantaneous feedback to all players is not possible, but I can't understand how the collision model works. A player flies into me, I go down and they keep flying!!??, now if I flew into them I could understand it.
Hitech or Skuzzy, would you be so kind as to give us a "general" explanation of how it works? It maybe all me, I just don't understand it. :salute
As said: If your plane is in contact with another object on your screen you take the damage. That is the only thing that matters, the collision model doesnt care about whos 'fault' it is.
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I don't ordinarily shout, but...
STOP RUNNING INTO STUFF AND YOU WON'T HAVE COLLISIONS.
Wiley.
This...
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Keep in mind the model is the same for all of us. Sometimes you will win a collision sometimes you will lose.
I must say too, I do not think I have ever had a player intentionally try to collide with the exception of plane trying to kill my M3.
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If you collide, you die. If the other guy collides with you, you will still die.
(I kid, I kid)
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Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
You think that’s bad? I was on the runway once (not moving) and registered a collision. The other guys FE didn’t see it.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl
I now understand, and it makes sense. :aok
Thanks for all the "Helpful" replies. :cheers:
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I don't ordinarily shout, but...
STOP RUNNING INTO STUFF AND YOU WON'T HAVE COLLISIONS.
Wiley.
how is a plane hitting me in the rear running into it? DID YOU READ THE COMMENT
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how is a plane hitting me in the rear running into it? DID YOU READ THE COMMENT
Yes, yes. It's always their fault. The game is still not your insurance adjuster.
Wiley.
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Hitech when are we gonna get a sarcasm font? It's rather quite simple to understand if you read it slow. Lusche even put a picture in to try and help with the understanding.
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how is a plane hitting me in the rear running into it? DID YOU READ THE COMMENT
Curious. You sat there and watched the plane fly into you. What did you expect to happen?
You do understand, on his computer he did not hit anything?
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I was landing an he111 with the rear guns out about 400 ft off the ground with power off about 90 ias. flaps were set to the 15* setting for a slight lift to bleed speed.
NO I DIDNT JUST SIT THERE. and so what if I did. a plane running in to the rear of mine should not award me a collision soley anytime! How am I suppose to know what some one else sees on there screen? The other day I was fighting shane in his la and I was high and he was low as we pass he pulls up into me I get the collision and he flies away damage free, how am I to know what is on his screen? is it my fault for the collision because he pulled straight up?
I understand how it works, doesn't mean I agree with it. most folks that are commenting in this thread are fear fighters and stay on the outside of the fight until its safe to cherry pick. I turn fight and I like to get close and fight so I get more collisions than others and I am not saying I don't deserve some, but on the other hand a lot should be shared and equal damage sorted to both parties.
how do you go about setting you computer to a slower screen portrayal?
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Curious. You sat there and watched the plane fly into you. What did you expect to happen?
You do understand, on his computer he did not hit anything?
Happened plenty of times. Nose up stall. Can’t maneuver. Watch the guy pull right into me and helpless to do anything. Happens all the time when you’re floating around in a big fat monster of a bird.
I’ve come to terms with it. Rather have that than no collision at all.
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How am I suppose to know what some one else sees on there screen?
You can't, of course. It's one of the great unfairnesses of life - you die, even if there was nothing you could do about it. Life is hard, and then you die.
From the other guy's perspective, of course, he simply buzzed your plane, pulled out, looked back and was somewhat surprised that you had plunged into the ground. "Wonder what got into him?" he thought.
- oldman
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It has nothing to do with a slower screen portrayal and everything with internet speed. You are one side of the world other guy is on the other side. Time in a on-line game is everything your up speed as far as I know counts for some but the down speed of your internet is where it matters how fast your internet brings back information to you. If your hop from your computer to Hitech servers it 14 hops but the other guys is only 5 hops then he is not where you think he is. Hence LAG you see one thing, his computer sees something else because you are Lagging behind him. I was always under the impression who ever has the slower internet speed loses the Collision. Just like if you have ever played on-line on a playstation or x-box whoever is picked to "host" the match almost always has an advantage over everyone else in the match.
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If your hop from your computer to Hitech servers it 14 hops but the other guys is only 5 hops then he is not where you think he is. Hence LAG you see one thing, his computer sees something else because you are Lagging behind him. I was always under the impression who ever has the slower internet speed loses the Collision.
And this impression is wrong.
Your data has to travel to your opponent. At the same time, your opponent's data has to trave to you. So both are equidistant. You both are 'lagging' for each other. The HTC server is just the man in the middle, collisions are not deceted on the server.
There is no winning or losing in collisions. Folks really have get this out of their mind.
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No, noman. It has nothing to do with internet speed other than how much of a difference in position there is between the locations of the planes on the two computers involved. If you collide on your end, you take collision damage. Period. If your plane doesn't hit anything on your end, you don't take collision damage.
Wiley.
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I understand how it works
Obviously you don't, based on this statement:
how do you go about setting you computer to a slower screen portrayal?
Wiley.
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Ok I guess I misunderstood Apologies. But isn't it lag that creates the difference between what you see and the other person sees?
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But isn't it lag that creates the difference between what you see and the other person sees?
It is.
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Ok I guess I misunderstood Apologies. But isn't it lag that creates the difference between what you see and the other person sees?
Yes, but it has nothing to do with "winning" or "losing" the collision. The other guys' planes are in a slightly different position on your computer versus theirs. Whether or not the two vehicles on your end collide or not is the ONLY thing that affects whether or not you take collision damage. Same on their end.
Wiley.
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Happened plenty of times. Nose up stall. Can’t maneuver. Watch the guy pull right into me and helpless to do anything. Happens all the time when you’re floating around in a big fat monster of a bird.
I’ve come to terms with it. Rather have that than no collision at all.
Respectfully, if you're in a position where you can't maneuver in the middle of a fight, whose fault is it? You take your chances when you hang yourself like that.
Wiley.
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I was landing an he111 with the rear guns out about 400 ft off the ground with power off about 90 ias. flaps were set to the 15* setting for a slight lift to bleed speed.
NO I DIDNT JUST SIT THERE. and so what if I did. a plane running in to the rear of mine should not award me a collision soley anytime! How am I suppose to know what some one else sees on there screen? The other day I was fighting shane in his la and I was high and he was low as we pass he pulls up into me I get the collision and he flies away damage free, how am I to know what is on his screen? is it my fault for the collision because he pulled straight up?
I understand how it works, doesn't mean I agree with it. most folks that are commenting in this thread are fear fighters and stay on the outside of the fight until its safe to cherry pick. I turn fight and I like to get close and fight so I get more collisions than others and I am not saying I don't deserve some, but on the other hand a lot should be shared and equal damage sorted to both parties.
how do you go about setting you computer to a slower screen portrayal?
The bandit didn't hit you on his PC. The collision was caused by the internet but it only happened on your PC.
What do you want to happen when you succesfully miss colliding with someone? Do you want to get damaged anyway, even though you avoided the collision on your PC?
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It's a historically accurate tactic, not sure what the whine is about -- From the wikipedias:
The first aerial ramming was performed by Pyotr Nesterov in 1914 during the First World War. In the early stages of World War II the tactic was employed by Soviet pilots who called it taran, the Russian word for "battering ram".
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It's a historically accurate tactic, not sure what the whine is about --
Historically both aircraft took damage.
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Historically both aircraft took damage.
:aok
Coogan
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It's a historically accurate tactic, not sure what the whine is about -- From the wikipedias:
historically, there was no lag in combat either.
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Historically both aircraft took damage.
Nobody writes collision detection like nature.
Wiley.
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Respectfully, if you're in a position where you can't maneuver in the middle of a fight, whose fault is it? You take your chances when you hang yourself like that.
Wiley.
Respectfully, sometimes you have no options when you push yourself to your limits. Sometimes you only have one option. Like when you’re in a 3 on 1 and the 4th guy comes to HO you.
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I get the idea behind collisions, but is there any difference in the two varying messages displayed?
1. Player xxx### has collided with you.
2. You have collided with player xxx###
Also, will a message of # 1 on my end generate a message #2 on the opponents end as well (and vice versa)?
Sometimes I see one or the other, sometimes both messages. I've taken ram (or possibly ho/guns) damage in all three situations.
I've even had my opponent state no damage on their end when I see both messages displayed (and took damage on my end.)
And as flippz mentioned previously, I got the message he collided with me (I took no damage - he did, and he also got the message he collided with me, not me with him - I think?)
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I get the idea behind collisions, but is there any difference in the two varying messages displayed?
1. Player xxx### has collided with you.
2. You have collided with player xxx###
Also, will a message of # 1 on my end generate a message #2 on the opponents end as well (and vice versa)?
Actually, #2 will only say "You have collided". And yes, when you get that one, #1) will be generated on your opponen't screen.
Sometimes I see one or the other, sometimes both messages.
And thus you will know if the collision happened either on your screen only, his screen only, or on both of your computers.
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Ok, thanks - so I'm basically understanding it correctly...
What might generate the dual msgs on my screen where it indicates both have collided but only one took any damage?
edit: never mind, I found the film and the other player took oil dmg it seems, and perhaps thought it was my guns rather than the collision that did it.
So thanks for the confirming what I understood the msgs to mean.
Can't count how many times I received the "player xxx### has collided with you" while I also take their ho/ram hold the trigger down hits for damage and go down while they scoot off with just oil dmg. Oh well.
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I was landing an he111 with the rear guns out about 400 ft off the ground with power off about 90 ias. flaps were set to the 15* setting for a slight lift to bleed speed.
NO I DIDNT JUST SIT THERE. and so what if I did. a plane running in to the rear of mine should not award me a collision soley anytime! How am I suppose to know what some one else sees on there screen? The other day I was fighting shane in his la and I was high and he was low as we pass he pulls up into me I get the collision and he flies away damage free, how am I to know what is on his screen? is it my fault for the collision because he pulled straight up?
I understand how it works, doesn't mean I agree with it. most folks that are commenting in this thread are fear fighters and stay on the outside of the fight until its safe to cherry pick. I turn fight and I like to get close and fight so I get more collisions than others and I am not saying I don't deserve some, but on the other hand a lot should be shared and equal damage sorted to both parties.
how do you go about setting you computer to a slower screen portrayal?
Personal responsibility is dead in today's world...
Face it flippz, if a collision with another plane is detected on your computer you may take damage. Stop hitting stuff, and avoid getting hit by stuff. Collision problem solved.
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Like in the below example where it seems to indicate we both saw collisions, yet the other player said they recorded no damage,
That's a new one on me. I wonder if he was saying his plane was pristine, or if he maybe lost something nonessential like a control surface?
I've had a couple of instances where I hit a guy at ridiculous speed and only lost an aileron in the collision. I've never heard of anyone getting a "you have collided" collision message without something getting damaged.
Wiley.
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Yeah Wiley, when I asked the player said no dmg, but when I actually just now reviewed film he took eng (oil smoke) dmg. I did edit the post you were looking at and replying to.
And my general experience when another player collides with me (and not me colliding with them), they generally only take minor damage like oil or maybe a control surface. I cut things too close at times I guess, but I'm not seeing counter evasives generally - just that ho/ram move, which is another issue for another thread (like it hasn't been discussed and debated endlessly over the years.)
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Ah, yeah that'll happen.
Wiley.
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Personal responsibility is dead in today's world...
Face it flippz, if a collision with another plane is detected on your computer you may take damage. Stop hitting stuff, and avoid getting hit by stuff. Collision problem solved.
Many players are stuck in a "it's not been my fault" thinking, as if "you have collided" put's the blame on them.
It doesn't.
The program doesn't care whos fault it was. It just mercilessly detects the collision. "You have collided" simply means a collision happened in YOUR world. You get damage. If you avoid that, you won't. It's the "What you see is what you get" approach, valid for all parties involved.
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Push it to the limit... walk along the razors edge, don't look back don't turn your head and you can win it!
Fixed :aok
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Fixed :aok
That's interesting, I usually hear this when most of these guys are posting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE)
Wiley.
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That's interesting, I usually hear this when most of these guys are posting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WHW-QNswE)
Wiley.
YOU'RE THE BEST DANNY!!!! :banana:
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Personal responsibility is dead in today's world...
Face it flippz, if a collision with another plane is detected on your computer you may take damage. Stop hitting stuff, and avoid getting hit by stuff. Collision problem solved.
quit using me for your bbs post credit unless its got actual value to the discussion. I don't ram planes on purposes nor do I think most people ram me on purpose (there was a incident where I was out of ammo but couldn't get the collision on him). I fight close and it happens and when I do collide with some one and its my fault I own it immediately and apologize.
and I do UNDERSTAND the collision model in here and that last statement was rhetorical (as in it didn't need an answer) about slowing my screen down.
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In my way of thinking, way back...the collision model should work like a static building or object. NO ONE can fly thru a building, so how can they fly through a plane. Like maybe the planes are supposed to get damage IF EITHER plane crosses into that area? I collide with you on my end, I die but you get damage as well. We were both too close, no matter what was on the other screen. That was just how I USE TO think it should work. If the difference in lag placement is much to far that only one side was near collision, something HAD TO BE WRONG with the model. Think thats what is being described maybe?
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Like maybe the planes are supposed to get damage IF EITHER plane crosses into that area? I collide with you on my end, I die but you get damage as well. We were both too close, no matter what was on the other screen.
Current model: When you evade a collision, you won't take any damage.
Your proposal: Even if you evade sucessfully, you still can get damage. (And look at the picture I posted earlier to see by how much you can dodge you enemy and still could get damage as by your proposal)
Do you really want to take damage even when clearly avoiding a collision?
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No wasnt proposal. Was HOW I THOUGHT it worked, while back. I had you educate me on this and lag about a year ago :rock Was trying to say that MAYBE the others were expecting something like I use To THINK it was or should have been :cheers:
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Oh sorry, seems I missunderstood :salute
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Na, in rereading, I wasnt as clear as was needed! BOURBON, maybe a eew tib lol Wee bit ,yrros :cheers:
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"Lag" is a poor word to use for this due to what most people identify for lag. It is more accurately "time differential" or TD, if you like.
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IMHO:
I think some people may think that internet data travels at the speed of light. Wish that were true...
True speed of light is only achieved in the vacuum of space. On Earth it's a bit slower. Even glass will slow it down a bit, which is the core component of a Fiber Optic Cable. (http://www.engineeringexchange.com/profiles/blogs/fiber-optic-cabling-is-made-with-glass-fibers)
Now think about how far your internet data has to travel to HiTechs' server. 100's to 1000's of miles? (don't forget it has to travel back to you as well)
The little bit of time it takes to send and receive that information is enough to give each player a slightly different view of the way things happened.
In short, there is really nothing more HiTech can do to improve 'lag' as some may call it. In this case, he is simply constrained by the Laws of Nature... :old:
Coogan
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(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/life%20lag_zpspegduo6d.jpg) (http://s499.photobucket.com/user/swatpeace/media/life%20lag_zpspegduo6d.jpg.html)
Like so. :aok
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This reminds me of a great song!(Hope this boy knows NOT TO DO THIS) "Loving YOU, Is Like Frying Bacon, Naked" :x
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Its hard to say its "perfect". The other night I was trying to avoid someone with more E than me, and they just ran into me from behind. I get the collide, they get the kill on me, and they keep flying like nothing ever happened. I was defenseless there.
But I understand that no two computers can be in the exact same place at the exact same time. The system usually doesn't bother me, but that one time in particular made me a little annoyed.
Agreed, it's not perfect, but it is an acceptable solution in a world where non-negligible lag exists. It's better than an alternative, where you receive collision damage when you did not even see one occur. I suppose there could be a way where collision bubbles are modeled on the aircraft and say, your tail or the back half of the aircraft cannot collide.
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Agreed, it's not perfect, but it is an acceptable solution in a world where non-negligible lag exists. It's better than an alternative, where you receive collision damage when you did not even see one occur. I suppose there could be a way where collision bubbles are modeled on the aircraft and say, your tail or the back half of the aircraft cannot collide.
NICE idea there GRIZZ The back half is usually how all my collisions. Those situations really suck. While working for an over shoot and he doesnt watch his throttle settings, and nine out of ten I get collided with and theRED guy just flying through me with no visible damage. So great idea SIR!
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quit using me for your bbs post credit unless its got actual value to the discussion. I don't ram planes on purposes nor do I think most people ram me on purpose (there was a incident where I was out of ammo but couldn't get the collision on him). I fight close and it happens and when I do collide with some one and its my fault I own it immediately and apologize.
and I do UNDERSTAND the collision model in here and that last statement was rhetorical (as in it didn't need an answer) about slowing my screen down.
You're the one that claimed you take damage 24 out of 25 collisions, which implied to me that you hit a lot of stuff, simple math. If I misunderstood somewhere then my apologies.
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Agreed, it's not perfect, but it is an acceptable solution in a world where non-negligible lag exists. It's better than an alternative, where you receive collision damage when you did not even see one occur. I suppose there could be a way where collision bubbles are modeled on the aircraft and say, your tail or the back half of the aircraft cannot collide.
Mmhm. You're right. If this were the case, then the situation on my original post would not have happened. As i mentioned the model works, but in the instance where I got rammed in the back by someone who had too much E to turn away from me on my screen, I was defenseless. Although maybe I shouldn't have put myself in a situation where I couldn't turn either :angel:
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Mmhm. You're right. If this were the case, then the situation on my original post would not have happened. As i mentioned the model works, but in the instance where I got rammed in the back by someone who had too much E to turn away from me on my screen, I was defenseless. Although maybe I shouldn't have put myself in a situation where I couldn't turn either :angel:
Good SA and how to apply it, goes a long way towards ending objects intersecting with your location.
When you realized you were defenseless, the light bulbs and alarms should have gone off, "OOps, I goofed!".
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Agreed, it's not perfect, but it is an acceptable solution in a world where non-negligible lag exists. It's better than an alternative, where you receive collision damage when you did not even see one occur. I suppose there could be a way where collision bubbles are modeled on the aircraft and say, your tail or the back half of the aircraft cannot collide.
You guys are wrong. It's the perfect solution because you only take damage when you have a collision. The fact that you can still get rammed from behind is just realism.
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You guys are wrong. It's the perfect solution because you only take damage when you have a collision. The fact that you can still get rammed from behind is just realism.
Life is not so simple, it depends if you are comparing it to utopia or reality.
HiTech
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Life is not so simple, it depends if you are comparing it to utopia or reality.
HiTech
Nope. It's simply the perfect solution.
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You guys are wrong. It's the perfect solution because you only take damage when you have a collision. The fact that you can still get rammed from behind is just realism.
its an acceptable solution, it's not perfect. How can something be perfect when you die from a collision and your opponent doesn't take damage? It could be the best solution, it's certainly 100% a logical and acceptable solution. Honestly I think that deactivating the back half of an airplane from collisions could be a slight improvement from a game play/fairness standpoint, assuming it's possible and simple enough to code.
It would also be an acceptable solution to deactivate collision damage unless both airplanes register a collision. Less complaints for sure.
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It would also be an acceptable solution to deactivate collision damage unless both airplanes register a collision. Less complaints for sure.
Nope. Just different complaints as people stop needing to aim while attacking other aircraft and just fly through them guns a blazing. The location difference would make the attacker's plane miss on the other guy's end almost every time.
It would have the net effect of turning collisions off except in limited circumstances.
Wiley.
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Honestly I think that deactivating the back half of an airplane from collisions could be a slight improvement from a game play/fairness standpoint, assuming it's possible and simple enough to code.
Then I'd try to force more a collision than an overshoot against a superior enemy on my six. After all, I#m immune vs collision damage ;)
It would also be an acceptable solution to deactivate collision damage unless both airplanes register a collision. Less complaints for sure.
I don't think so.
I am a Euro player with a much higher 'time differential' than US players. With that knowledge in mind, I'd fly guns blazing through enemy bombers because I know the chance of both registering a collision is quite small. US players couldn't do that this easily.
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Then I'd try to force more a collision than an overshoot against a superior enemy on my six. After all, I#m immune vs collision damage ;)
I don't think so.
I am a Euro player with a much higher 'time differential' than US players. With that knowledge in mind, I'd fly guns blazing through enemy bombers because I know the chance of both registering a collision is quite small. US players couldn't do that this easily.
Perhaps, but then again perhaps not, it is speculation. I question whether the collision potential would be "quite small". Could still be high enough to incentivize trying to avoid a collision.
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Perhaps, but then again perhaps not, it is speculation.
Not really. It would simply not count collisions that are currently one-sided. I don't keep close track, but I believe I can safely say literally over 40 of the last 50 collisions I've been involved in the guy on the other end didn't collide. It is very rare when I collide the other guy takes damage.
Wiley.
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I won't accept biased accounts. It's natural to remember the one sided accounts in greater detail, like bad beats in poker. Only htc posting the percentage breakdown of one sided vs two sided collisions will quell my curiosity
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Perhaps, but then again perhaps not, it is speculation. I question whether the collision potential would be "quite small".
Not speculation, but experience. About every time I run into bombers and collide, it's on e sided (on my client only) - a result of the relatively high 'time difference' between me and other AH players.
If I were a US player, this time difference would generally be much lower.
So yes, I could totally game that by flying guns blazing through the bombers. Very little risk of a mutual collision.
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I won't accept biased accounts. It's natural to remember the one sided accounts in greater detail, like bad beats in poker. Only htc posting the percentage breakdown of one sided vs two sided collisions will quell my curiosity
That's your choice, but it's something that interests me, so I do pay attention when it happens. I notice 2 sided collisions far more as an oddity, like a bad beat, than a one sided collision.
Wiley.
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It's actually been a long time since I've had a one sided collision. The most recent was my 262 flying through a flopping N1K that my cannons apparently couldn't hit, but my nose could... Lost half a wing and a flap, he had no damage. I still managed to wrassle it around for a landing.
More often than not recently, I get the you have collided/so and so has collided with you dual message.
Oh, and the guy ramming me on the runway when I just spawned in saying I collided with him. That's just silly though. :joystick:
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I honestly can't recall the breakdown when I flew often. It seemed around 50/50 or at least in that realm.
But let me ask lushe and Wiley this: what would the percentage need to be for a two sided collusion model to be more ideal? Ballpark it I'm not trying to get you to commit to a single digit number.
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I honestly can't recall the breakdown when I flew often. It seemed around 50/50 or at least in that realm.
In dogfights I could not give any number either. While most of my collsisions are still one sided, I could not say by how much, any number I'd give would be a fuzzy anecdotal thing for sure.
But it's completely different when I attack bombers. When I collide there, it's basically always because of a badly timed high speed slashing attack of mine. In these cases I almost never experience a mutual collision. 'Almost' means I can't even remember when I had a mutual collision the last time - And I always look at those messages.
I'm a Euro player with a much higher ping than the average US player. so I know my 'leash' is much longer. See the picture I posted earlier in this thread, the Mustang who collided on his Front End was me. Look how far I was away from the Jug on his FE.
But let me ask lushe and Wiley this: what would the percentage need to be for a two sided collusion model to be more ideal? Ballpark it I'm not trying to get you to commit to a single digit number.
I don't think I can give a reasonable answer here. I know how it is for me vs bombers, and that I could easily game that. You can't change the underlying physical time difference.
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Okay well then let's make this more complicated. Bombers are still set to be one ended collisions then. Unless you are in the bomber, then it's two.
Still anecdotal that you never have double ended collisions with bombers. I doubt you would try to ram bombers if there was even a 10% chance of there being a collision.
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You're effectively saying "how much less than 100% of the time would you like to have what you see on your end be correct?" My number is 0, personally.
Same logic applies in a high speed bounce of a fighter. The same way it could happen with a bomber, it would happen with a fighter, except the thing my plane on his end has to hit is even smaller.
Wiley.
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its an acceptable solution, it's not perfect. How can something be perfect when you die from a collision and your opponent doesn't take damage? It could be the best solution, it's certainly 100% a logical and acceptable solution. Honestly I think that deactivating the back half of an airplane from collisions could be a slight improvement from a game play/fairness standpoint, assuming it's possible and simple enough to code.
It would also be an acceptable solution to deactivate collision damage unless both airplanes register a collision. Less complaints for sure.
Your opponent doesn't take damage only when they don't collide. You are apparently hung up on punishing the player that didn't hit you on their PC. You see an imperfect situation and can't see that we have the perfect solution to the problem.
Your proposed solution would let people fly through you while firing at you with no downside for them. That would be worse than what we have now.
Punishing the player that didn't hit you on their PC seems to be the motivation of every collision complaint.
Currently you only take damage when you hit something. What is better than that? There are no one-sided and two-sided collisions. There is only contact or no contact. If you don't understand that then you don't understand collisions in Aces High.
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Your proposed solution would let people fly through you while firing at you with no downside for them. That would be worse than what we have now.
It would allow that sometimes, the exact percentage of the time is based on how many one-ended vs two ended collisions occur. There is clearly a downside, there is a chance, that both players will register the collision and go down. You are so quick to talk down to me that you aren't reading and comprehending my posts. I understand how the collision model works, it is unclear how you don't understand that.
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It would allow that sometimes, the exact percentage of the time is based on how many one-ended vs two ended collisions occur. There is clearly a downside, there is a chance, that both players will register the collision and go down. You are so quick to talk down to me that you aren't reading and comprehending my posts. I understand how the collision model works, it is unclear how you don't understand that.
You seem to believe "one-sided" collisions are a problem. There is no "registering" a collision. There is only contact or no contact on your PC. I don't see you understanding that.
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You seem to believe "one-sided" collisions are a problem. There is no "registering" a collision. There is only contact or no contact on your PC. I don't see you understanding that.
Never did I say, infer, or hint that the model is a problem. I said it is a logical and acceptable solution the way it is. I was throwing out some other ideas that could work just as well or better depending on the amount of latency in aces high. Like I said, it's possible that a two-collision register or no collision system could work and be better, but only if the "two worlds" are close enough such that there is an incentive to try to avoid collisions. That depends on the percentage of one sided and two sided collisions.
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Never did I say, infer, or hint that the model is a problem. ...
You mentioned fairness.
I thought we were just quibbling about my use of "perfect" to describe the solution. :D
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I meant perceived fairness. Your customers perception is your reality.
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That's why we keep explaining the collision model. :aok
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I thought this thread was supposed to be locked after Lusche posted.
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We have all heard or read about collisions during air combat in WW2. The stories where 1 plane goes down and the other makes it back to base, but most ended with both planes going down. Some players do their math and figure a ram job is a better bet than shooting It out, Why not just have both planes go down,
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We have all heard or read about collisions during air combat in WW2. The stories where 1 plane goes down and the other makes it back to base, but most ended with both planes going down. Some players do their math and figure a ram job is a better bet than shooting It out, Why not just have both planes go down,
No internet in WW2.
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I thought this thread was supposed to be locked after Lusche posted.
No, we need another 30 page thread on the collision model.
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Not speculation, but experience. About every time I run into bombers and collide, it's on e sided (on my client only) - a result of the relatively high 'time difference' between me and other AH players.
If I were a US player, this time difference would generally be much lower.
So yes, I could totally game that by flying guns blazing through the bombers. Very little risk of a mutual collision.
Lusche , He is saying that the back end of YOUR fe when you fly thew a plane does not cause YOU to collide. If the front end of your plane goes threw the back end of another plane YOU would still collide.
But he is not seeing the case where a head on can still just pass threw the back end of a plane with out touching the front.
HiTech
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Lusche , He is saying that the back end of YOUR fe when you fly thew a plane does not cause YOU to collide.
This is the quote of his I was referring to:
It would also be an acceptable solution to deactivate collision damage unless both airplanes register a collision. Less complaints for sure.
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This is the quote of his I was referring to:
Ahh , never mind. Some days I skim to fast.
HiTech
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We have all heard or read about collisions during air combat in WW2. The stories where 1 plane goes down and the other makes it back to base, but most ended with both planes going down. Some players do their math and figure a ram job is a better bet than shooting It out, Why not just have both planes go down,
Playing this game is not real life.
There are two realities online. Mine and yours.
If I collide with you but you don't collide with me (because this is the internet, not real life) why should you be destroyed?
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Ahh , never mind. Some days I skim to fast.
HiTech
Do you keep records of one ended verse two ended collisions in aces high?
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Do you keep records of one ended verse two ended collisions in aces high?
No.
But feel free to keep the stats yourself. But the stats would be meaning less, because a change to the system changes the risk reward equation and would drastically lower the risk of going for a head on.
HiTech
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I always felt my opponents guns pointing right at me were the biggest disincentive for head on avoidance, not so much collisions. But point taken.
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Don't forget this one from another thread:
Here is today's vid. I tried this twice because finding buffs was tough and fighting Flippz was more fun. 2nd go, I attacked a formation of B-26s Knocked the first two down on the first two passes. Pilot got evasive after that and I just missed getting the third...until he ripped his wings off.
https://youtu.be/aRPbCzfuwvg (https://youtu.be/aRPbCzfuwvg)
Vinkman :salute
It still deservers an achievement, kill 3 bombers of a formation by making them collide without you without colliding with them. Worth 10 points, because it isn't that difficult.
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Don't forget this one from another thread:
It still deservers an achievement, kill 3 bombers of a formation by making them collide without you without colliding with them. Worth 10 points, because it isn't that difficult.
Or deserves to be a bannable offense!