Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 09:03:44 AM
So that refuelling works as normal, but if one choose to add repairs the time one would have to sit on the pad increases accordingly to the amount of repairs added from the damage list.
It would be so much better to be able to keep the number of sorties down if one chooses to do so, or just up a fresh plane if one chooses that.
Or to be even more realistic about it, you would have to park the plane inside a hangar to be able to open the repairs menu, instead of using the refuel pad.
I mean, if you are able to bring the bird home battled and bruised and manage to land it without crashing it should be only fair to be able to hand it over to the mechanic.
Maybe if it is really battered and missing half the controlsurfaces it would have to sit on the ground for an hour to fix it, but atleast one would have the choice to not end sortie.
Atleast the WEP reset we could have added, I find it frustrating to have to up a new plane everytime the wep is gone, especially if it is a perfectly fine plane in every other way. If it takes 30 sec to refuel, and say 60 or 90 sec for a wep reset ontop of that?
Just throwing the idea out there.
-TheStig-
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Post by: TWCAxew on January 12, 2018, 09:24:53 AM
I would bring a bomb just to bomb the repair hanger when there are planes inside :evil:
DutchVII
Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
Yep this would be fun.It would prefereably be a indestructable hangar, for just this reason.
I would bring a bomb just to bomb the repair hanger when there are planes inside :evil:
DutchVII
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Post by: wil3ur on January 12, 2018, 09:38:52 AM
It would prefereably be a indestructable hangar, for just this reason.
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You can still destroy objects inside the indestructible with a bomb. Splash damage still effects everything around it. Just that object is indestructible, nothing inside it is safe. :old:
Post by: Arlo on January 12, 2018, 09:45:35 AM
... it should be only fair to be able to hand it over to the mechanic.
When you end sortie that is what you are basically doing. You have the option to fly with the damage, if the plane can still fly. If the plane can't fly, there is no miracle minute Band-Aid. Take the point bonus you receive from bringing a broken bird home and up a fresh bird. ;)
Now, if you were to suggest changing fuel options and load-out options on the rearm pad ....
Post by: Vraciu on January 12, 2018, 09:57:23 AM
Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 09:58:45 AM
Now, if you were to suggest changing fuel options and load-out options on the rearm pad ....
Yes, that too. I have many times wanted to simply land to change my load-out for continuing my mission.
So that should be added to my wish also.
Regarding the repairs it might be too much to ask for, but atleast the wep issue I know there are several others that would back me up on.
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Post by: Wiley on January 12, 2018, 09:59:51 AM
Wiley.
Post by: wil3ur on January 12, 2018, 10:20:24 AM
Post by: Chris79 on January 12, 2018, 10:41:01 AM
Post by: TWCAxew on January 12, 2018, 10:45:16 AM
You can still destroy objects inside the indestructible with a bomb. Splash damage still effects everything around it. Just that object is indestructible, nothing inside it is safe. :old:
this is what I was hinting at :)
just make the time longer for each broken thing on the plane. 45 sec per broken part or so.
Post by: TWCAxew on January 12, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
As someone who uses WEP as it's intended purpose (emergency power), I rarely ever run out in a fight. Most planes already will build it back, but it also has to do with the heat on the engine as I recall. One thing I do while on the rearm pad is shut my engine down giving it time to cool back down a bit. Not sure if it actually helps, or is just something I misunderstood and do for no reason. :headscratch:
After a few sorties wap usually runs out and does not replenish. Had it happen a few times in the past.
Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 10:58:17 AM
As someone who uses WEP as it's intended purpose (emergency power), I rarely ever run out in a fight. Most planes already will build it back, but it also has to do with the heat on the engine as I recall. One thing I do while on the rearm pad is shut my engine down giving it time to cool back down a bit. Not sure if it actually helps, or is just something I misunderstood and do for no reason. :headscratch:I never use wep unless I am in a fight and pressured to use it as a means to stay alive or keep the pressure up in the fight. I usually fly the P51D, and if the fight drags out as it often does I often find myself out of wep way before I am out of fuel and bullets. And as I have been told, once the wep is out it's out. I know you can make it work for a shorter period a couple of times after it shuts down the first time, but I don't think it recharges itself after engine cooldown? I have asked around if it does and I've been told it does not.
If it actually builds up after a cooldown my initial wish here falls apart, and I wish I had actually tested how that works myself instead of just relying on the answers others gave me when I asked around.
I have tried to trottle down cruise for ahwile in hopes of getting a fresh wep, but it did not do much as I have noticed. And also during refuelling I too shut down the engine, often even going afk for a few mins. But I always end up short of wep.
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Post by: Wiley on January 12, 2018, 11:31:24 AM
Here's everything converted to minutes. There's a little flakiness in the formatting but the info's there.
Plane Time On Time Off Total Time
p51d 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
109k4 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
spit9 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
b17g 5.050505051 16.66666667 0
c47a 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
la5fn 10.1010101 10.1010101 10
n1k2 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
190a8 10.1010101 20.2020202 20
c205 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
f4u1d 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
b26b 5.050505051 16.66666667 0
b26b 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
109g2 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
109g6 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
f4u1c 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
spit5 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
p38l 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
c202 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
typhoon 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
190a5 10.1010101 20.2020202 20
yak9u #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
a6m5b #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
p47d30 5.050505051 10.1010101 15
p47d25 5.050505051 10.1010101 15
ju88a4 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
lanc3 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
f6f5 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
tbm3 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
seafire 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
tempest 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
ar234 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
ta152h 9.98003992 5.005005005 40
190f8 10.1010101 20.2020202 20
la7 10.1010101 10.1010101 10
yak9t 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
190d9 9.98003992 5.005005005 40
p51b 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
p47d11 5.050505051 10.1010101 15
ki611c 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
il23 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
me262 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
f4u1 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
f4u4 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
hurri2c 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
hurri2d 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
mossie6 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
ki67 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
110c4 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
spit1 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
1.09E+06 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
hurri1 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
110g2 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
spit14 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
boston3 5.050505051 16.66666667 0
f4f4 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
fm2 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
a20g 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
d3a1 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
sbd5 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
a6m2 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
p40e 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
p40c #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 10
me163 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
ju87d3 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
b5n2 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
ki84 1.500150015 0.750075008 10
b24j 5.050505051 16.66666667 0
p38g #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
p38j 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
p47n 5.050505051 10.1010101 15
109g14 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
spit8 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
spit16 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
rv8 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
f4u1a 5.050505051 10.1010101 8
b25c 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
b25h 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
p39d 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
p39q 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
i16 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
b239 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
p47m 5.050505051 10.1010101 15
dr1 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
f2b 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
camel 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
dvii 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
mossi16 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
g4m1 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
b29 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
a6m3 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
p40f 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
p40n 5.050505051 10.1010101 10
fi156 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
me410 10.1010101 10.1010101 42.83333333
ju87g2 #DIV/0! #DIV/0! 0
seahurr 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
he111 5.050505051 16.66666667 10
ki43 1.500150015 0.750075008 10
yak3 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
yak7b 5.050505051 10.1010101 0
tu2s 10.1010101 10.1010101 10
Wiley.
Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 12:29:48 PM
I knew the wep used to be better than the one we have today! Thanks again Wiley for bringing this into the light. :)
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Post by: Vraciu on January 12, 2018, 01:55:07 PM
IRL I can take fuel to the pound or gallon as I desire.
Perhaps in increments of 10% or 20%?
Post by: 100Coogn on January 12, 2018, 01:58:49 PM
Fuel options should be expanded.
IRL I can take fuel to the pound or gallon as I desire.
Perhaps in increments of 10% or 20%?
+1 :aok
Coogan
Post by: lunatic1 on January 12, 2018, 02:14:55 PM
this sim is getting more and more arcadeish all the time.
land your damaged plane kills or no kills take up a new one. that's the its always been since I have been playing.
that's the way it always should be.
we are not playing X-Box or Playstation here, its Aces High3-don't turn it into a console game.
Post by: Ciaphas on January 12, 2018, 06:20:29 PM
The repair idea is kind of bizarre in my opinion. If the aircraft has to go to the mechanic, the sortie is over. It’s as simple as that.
The fuel and ammo load outs work because you can hang a bomb pretty darn fast and changing fuel quantities are as simple as giving the POL guy a thumbs up.
Would be cool if it was a dot command that you had to use before full stop on the pad and if you didn’t get that command done before full stop, an added 20 seconds to finish loading and refueling as the ground crew was caught off guard by your sudden need run marathons.
They could also tack on an addition 10 seconds for loading larger bombs than the original configuration and perhaps reduce time if you are taking less fuel than the original fuel load.
It could work, I would like to see this at the very least, considered by HiTech and the crew.
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Post by: 19zac on January 12, 2018, 06:43:58 PM
Now, if you were to suggest changing fuel options and load-out options on the rearm pad ....
I like the OP's suggestions. But to this.... +1000000
Post by: icepac on January 12, 2018, 06:51:10 PM
Sadly, my stick hasn't allowed WEP to stay on for over a year.
Time for a new stick.
Post by: SAJ73 on January 12, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
But I am still glad I presented my OP to you guys, because the ideas coming back regarding refuelling pad options are really really good ideas. I would love to see Hitech take a handfull of the best ideas coming forth here to his drawing board, that would really be neat.
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Post by: Ciaphas on January 12, 2018, 07:22:21 PM
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Post by: wil3ur on January 12, 2018, 10:34:11 PM
-1 if you are able to repair a plane on the rearm/refuel pad-people would be landing 20-30-40 kills instead of 3-5-10.
this sim is getting more and more arcadeish all the time.
land your damaged plane kills or no kills take up a new one. that's the its always been since I have been playing.
that's the way it always should be.
we are not playing X-Box or Playstation here, its Aces High3-don't turn it into a console game.
You don't need to rearm to land 20+ kills...
Post by: Volron on January 12, 2018, 10:47:08 PM
Post by: nrshida on January 13, 2018, 01:51:52 AM
Post by: Rodent57 on January 13, 2018, 02:55:13 AM
It's difficult to understand why WEP isn't automatically recharged. On those planes where it is a heat issue they would have cooled off and in the other it's the only consumable not refilled :headscratch:
YAY, someone's thinking!
Think of it as topping off your radiator (or recharging your NOX).
Post by: nrshida on January 13, 2018, 03:14:15 AM
Post by: danny76 on January 13, 2018, 12:46:05 PM
It's difficult to understand why WEP isn't automatically recharged. On those planes where it is a heat issue they would have cooled off and in the other it's the only consumable not refilled :headscratch::old:
Post by: icepac on January 13, 2018, 01:18:38 PM
Now airplanes that have consumables for WEP, then I could see seeing "refilling" but still with the temperature limitation.
Post by: nrshida on January 13, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
Aero engines don't cool when off so I still feel temperature should affect it for the planes where temperature is the limiting factor.
Now airplanes that have consumables for WEP, then I could see seeing "refilling" but still with the temperature limitation.
:O
Post by: 100Coogn on January 13, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
:O
Global warming I say! :old:
Coogan
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2018, 02:42:28 PM
I had presumed it took longer to refuel a WW2 aircraft than an F1 car and it was abbreviated for convenience.
He makes us burn gas faster so it's only fair he refuels us faster. :banana:
Post by: icepac on January 13, 2018, 06:04:40 PM
Post by: Vraciu on January 13, 2018, 09:02:18 PM
See Rule #4
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 13, 2018, 09:19:22 PM
Post by: Mongoose on January 13, 2018, 10:54:50 PM
Post by: 100Coogn on January 13, 2018, 11:00:18 PM
I want to see a bunch of guys run out to the airplane, and run back when done. I want to hear the "ding, ding, ding" as the gas is pumping. :lol
+1
Why not?
Post by: Vraciu on January 14, 2018, 07:07:14 AM
I want to see a bunch of guys run out to the airplane, and run back when done. I want to hear the "ding, ding, ding" as the gas is pumping. :lol
Snowmen?
:banana:
Post by: save on January 14, 2018, 09:43:16 AM
Post by: wrench on January 14, 2018, 10:37:39 AM
- A flight/sortie begins when the aircraft begins to move forward on takeoff. It ends after airborne flight when the aircraft returns to the surface and any of the following conditions occur:
(1) The engine is stopped, or any engine on a multi-engine aircraft.
(2) A change is made in the crew which enplanes or deplanes a crew member. A single flight may include multiple take-offs and landings.
Post by: Rodent57 on January 14, 2018, 02:07:32 PM
Post by: Vraciu on January 14, 2018, 03:38:35 PM
ANd yet ev ery pilot log books shows +5 (or sometimes 10) minutes for STTO!
Depends on the way it's done.
Some places just use 0.1 on each end or five minutes or round up to the next higher. I actually log it to the minute but it is not itemized. FAR Part 1.1 defines it as: Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing. *shrug*
Post by: toddbobe on January 15, 2018, 10:07:23 PM
Todd
Post by: icepac on January 16, 2018, 06:26:16 PM
Close cowled fighter plane engines, when shut down super hot as they would be in aces high, will not cool a single bit during the short time aces high gives to a rearm pad event.
It is also likely that they would not restart since the hot soak would probably cause vapor lock.
Post by: nrshida on January 17, 2018, 12:53:47 AM
Close cowled fighter plane engines, when shut down super hot as they would be in aces high, will not cool a single bit during the short time aces high gives to a rearm pad event.
We only have to wait 30 seconds for an operation which would probably take at least ten minutes in real life. I don't see a man with a hosepipe and bowser when I refuel either nor do I need to see wing covers removed to reload ammunition belts. Some features ought to be relaxed in the interest of keeping the game fun - you can just pretend all that happened if you want to. Hell, knock yourself out and simulate vapour lock and overheating if you're really into selective historical re-enactment.
The lack of WEP recharging is a gameplay anomaly.
Regarding damage, perhaps you could pull into the hangar and have a 'change planes' option and it still counts as a single sortie? If rewarding for RTBing is an interesting dynamic that wants to be promoted in gameplay?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 17, 2018, 06:53:48 AM
I wish there were taxi lanes anyway and adding extra stops along the way would suffice for immersion IMHO.
Just spit balling here.
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Post by: Ack-Ack on January 17, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Regarding damage, perhaps you could pull into the hangar and have a 'change planes' option and it still counts as a single sortie? If rewarding for RTBing is an interesting dynamic that wants to be promoted in gameplay?
That would end the sortie in real life. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
Post by: nrshida on January 17, 2018, 01:54:26 PM
That would end the sortie in real life. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
I think to the strict letter of the translation a sortie would technically end at the moment of each landing.
Post by: BuckShot on January 17, 2018, 06:29:39 PM
You think that players running from fights is bad now? Imagine how bad it will be when they can fix the 51 you chewed up while they infinitely "extend" from a fight.
Like object resupply, this will remove more people from the fight.
Post by: nrshida on January 18, 2018, 12:30:46 AM
You think that players running from fights is bad now? Imagine how bad it will be when they can fix the 51 you chewed up while they infinitely "extend" from a fight.
But what about the WEP?
Post by: Ciaphas on January 18, 2018, 06:42:13 AM
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Post by: Vraciu on January 18, 2018, 10:08:02 AM
Post by: nrshida on January 18, 2018, 10:25:49 AM
We've discussed this before. Some of these engines will run on WEP for a time measured in dozens of hours without failure.
Yes and some use a consumable fluid which is suspiciously and uniquely not refilled* :old:
* and in my favourite plane only ever half-filled to begin with.
Post by: BuckShot on January 18, 2018, 04:13:00 PM
But what about the WEP?
Maybe the WEP juice additive could be topped off for planes that had it, but the planes w/o additive get nothing (If the wep time was used up, it's still gone).
Post by: Vraciu on January 18, 2018, 04:51:50 PM
Maybe the WEP juice additive could be topped off for planes that had it, but the planes w/o additive get nothing (If the wep time was used up, it's still gone).
That unfairly penalizes the P-51.
Post by: bustr on January 18, 2018, 06:04:43 PM
Post by: BuckShot on January 18, 2018, 08:01:29 PM
That unfairly penalizes the P-51.
History is not fair. Historic accuracy penalizes no one.
Post by: icepac on January 18, 2018, 09:35:05 PM
Post by: icepac on January 18, 2018, 09:36:54 PM
We only have to wait 30 seconds for an operation which would probably take at least ten minutes in real life. I don't see a man with a hosepipe and bowser when I refuel either nor do I need to see wing covers removed to reload ammunition belts. Some features ought to be relaxed in the interest of keeping the game fun - you can just pretend all that happened if you want to. Hell, knock yourself out and simulate vapour lock and overheating if you're really into selective historical re-enactment.
The lack of WEP recharging is a gameplay anomaly.
Regarding damage, perhaps you could pull into the hangar and have a 'change planes' option and it still counts as a single sortie? If rewarding for RTBing is an interesting dynamic that wants to be promoted in gameplay?
I'm just relaying what I've experienced working on close cowled 3350s.
Post by: Vraciu on January 18, 2018, 11:28:10 PM
History is not fair. Historic accuracy penalizes no one.
Which is precisely why the Mustang is unfairly penalized. Historic accuracy is not modeled in this case. See Bustr’s excellent explanation above.
Post by: nrshida on January 19, 2018, 12:23:37 AM
I'm just relaying what I've experienced working on close cowled 3350s.
Yup which is indeed very interesting. How do they go about cooling them down completely when finished with them? Just let the heat soak process come to its natural conclusion or use external cooling?
I think we could choose to look at WEP this way: in the war you might have had the need occasionally to use WEP or overstress your engine to get you out of trouble. In AH if the gameplay is healthy then we should be having an emergency white knuckle situation every sortie. So I think it's not stretching the imagination too far to relax the physics a little bit regarding stress / cooling. AH does not delve into modelling reliability or complex engine management and we're all fine with that.
If you get to the rearm / refuel pad, it's logical in this context to reset your WEP too. Otherwise you'll just end sortie and get a new plane which amounts to the same without impressive 7+ kill runs in the buffer anymore.
Post by: Vraciu on January 19, 2018, 12:44:47 AM
Pull an inch or two of manifold pressure...wait two minutes....pull two more....wait two.....pull two.... Something like that as opposed to going right to idle from cruise close to the airport. Maybe Colombo has something similar he did.