General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Chris79 on January 30, 2018, 10:04:17 AM
Title: Ju-87G
Post by: Chris79 on January 30, 2018, 10:04:17 AM
Although this is some what anecdotal, I have been reading a book titled "The Last 100 Days" and an account of Hans Ulrich Rudel was presented in one of the chapters. During a sortie on Feb 8th 1945, the day in which he lost his foot, he killed 9 Soviet tanks including an IS3. It seems to me through the accounts of Oberst Rudel, that the effectiveness of the Bordkanone 37mm was greater in RL then in AH. On the first pass Rudel quote on quote smoldered the IS3, and the second pass in which the starboard 37mm jammed, one 37mm hit exploded it. A subsequent flack hit after pulling up from the attack severed his foot.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: The Fugitive on January 30, 2018, 10:44:51 AM
Snailman has 14 just this tour alone. Just because you have a hard time getting kills in it doesnt mean it is modeled wrong.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Chris79 on January 30, 2018, 11:12:48 AM
Don't have issues killing panzers, and T34s with it, but the IS series of tanks having comparable armor to a Tiger2. I can't imagine a JU87g killing a T2
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Lusche on January 30, 2018, 11:15:44 AM
Why...that must be because Rudel killed them all before they got there!
Just ask him!
- oldman
:rofl
Rudel was not a very reliable or accurate source for historical information, especially as a Stuka tank hunter. He was known to over blow his actual kills and greatly exaggerate his influence as a tank hunter. It happened a lot on both sides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II).
The Stuka G is accurately modelled. It's hard to get a kill with a 37mm shell - especially against late war German tanks.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Chris79 on January 30, 2018, 11:50:35 AM
Hence I wrote "anecdotal". I was mistaken, it was an IS2. I trust the word of pilots as much as fisherman and a frat boys notch tally. It was an interesting excerpt from book I am reading for other reasons.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: lyric1 on January 30, 2018, 12:17:58 PM
Hence I wrote "anecdotal". I was mistaken, it was an IS2.
As far as I know, the IS-2 had a top armor thickness of 30mm. That's slightly more than a Tiger I and less than a Tiger II. Killing a Tiger I (in game) with the Ju-87G is definitely doable. Haven't tried killing a TII yet, because they are so incredibly rare in offensive operations.
EDIT:
Just tried it offline. Had the T2 turret smoking with my first shot, by the fifth shot the tank exploded.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Chris79 on January 30, 2018, 12:38:02 PM
What convergence do you use?
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Lusche on January 30, 2018, 12:45:39 PM
350
This is the hit that smoke the turret:
(https://i.imgur.com/QMQn9MZ.jpg)
I fired at D240, 60° dive, 260 mph
The 37mm on the Ju-87G has a great armor penetration, but is extremely depending on getting a good angle. Penetration will fall off very quickly if you don't hit the armor as perpendicular as possible. And that's a problem with top down attacks, as from pilots view even 60° looks almost like diving straight down.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: atlau on January 30, 2018, 08:27:18 PM
87G is lots of fun. Except for always hitting trees trying to pull out of a steep dive!
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: lyric1 on January 30, 2018, 11:43:52 PM
Rudel was not a very reliable or accurate source for historical information, especially as a Stuka tank hunter. He was known to over blow his actual kills and greatly exaggerate his influence as a tank hunter. It happened a lot on both sides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_and_overclaiming_of_aerial_victories_during_World_War_II).
The Stuka G is accurately modelled. It's hard to get a kill with a 37mm shell - especially against late war German tanks.
Posting a link to the concept of over claiming doesn't back up your statement.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: save on January 31, 2018, 04:34:44 AM
Over-claiming air-to-ground is not new, as late investigation has proved.
The penetration is a ticket for the tank to a repair-shop, a kill renders the tank to be scrapped.
Regardless how many tanks Rudel killed, he sent a big bunch to the scrapyard, and another bunch to the repair-shop.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Chris79 on January 31, 2018, 07:34:21 AM
Loaded offline practice, every tank dies to the Stuka G. Loaded M476, Panther, Tiger1, Tiger 2, and T34/85. 4 shots top of turret dispatchs the Tigers, 2 rounds to the back of the turret kills the panther, 2 rounds either to the side or back armor kills a panzer, 4 rounds back turret kills the M476 and the T34.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: atlau on January 31, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
Try a m3? They are surprisingly durable against those 37mm rounds.... think they just go right thru
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: wil3ur on January 31, 2018, 09:57:32 AM
Try a m3? They are surprisingly durable against those 37mm rounds.... think they just go right thru
This has been a problem with AP on light armor for a while. Back in AH2 if you didn't have HE loaded, M3's were nearly impervious to tank rounds.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: JOACH1M on January 31, 2018, 11:30:20 AM
StukaG is probably the best tank killer in game. I have yet to have an issue knocking out tigers and panthers. You have to approach at the proper angle and fire on the top of the turrets or just behind them.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: USCH on January 31, 2018, 03:38:15 PM
StukaG is probably the best tank killer in game. I have yet to have an issue knocking out tigers and panthers. You have to approach at the proper angle and fire on the top of the turrets or just behind them.
what he said and a small dot for your sight helps Also people have a tendency to have too much speed, use full flaps and go in slow take a 1 round (per gun) shot and then pull out.
You need to also be close ( the closer the better) i have my convergence at 175
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: bustr on January 31, 2018, 03:41:33 PM
Back around 2013 I got a copy of Hs 129 Panzerjager and it explained how the 129 pilots made single shot kills with the MK101\103 tungsten carbide rounds against all of the russian heavy tanks. They fired at sub 100m at a slight angle for the armor. So I tested sub 100yd shots with the Ju87 and blew up all tanks up to the tiger1 with single shots. You can shoot flat just under the top track tread between the wheels and sometimes you get lucky. In the MA this worked as long as the tank driver was looking in another direction, otherwise it was suicide.
The Hs 129 pilots in russia had a squadron leader who got the idea from watching how 190's with rockets killed tanks by firing sub 100m flying on the deck. He died after explaining not to slap your tail end on the tank when you pull up after shooting one during a demonstration of just that against a dead T34. Hs129 pilots were known to fly down village streets to sneak up on russian tanks. All that was needed was for that tiny round to make it into the crew compartment or into the engine compartment. I tested the F9 with rockets and a custom gunsight, the method works if you get speed, and line up straight for an approach run. MA tank commanders enjoyed the free kill when I tried to duplicate it there.
This has been a problem with AP on light armor for a while. Back in AH2 if you didn't have HE loaded, M3's were nearly impervious to tank rounds.
AT rounds like he ones from WW2 are not very effective against lightly armored GV:s, its more or less just like a big rifle round and you are by no mean guaranteed a kill just because you hit it.
2x AP hits on a truck with a M4 and while the 2nd round would have immobilize the truck the damage isnt that impressive. An AP .50 round would have done the job just as well.
https://youtu.be/GW2U0qORdLE?t=309
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: atlau on February 02, 2018, 09:49:05 AM
But the ap round should kill a few of the troops in back!
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: lyric1 on February 02, 2018, 12:04:48 PM
But the ap round should kill a few of the troops in back!
But everyone knows that AHIII tank rounds bounce off windshields. :devil
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: FBKampfer on February 02, 2018, 01:19:36 PM
I've honestly never had an M3 survive a hit, regardless of shell type, no matter what version of the game, caliber, etc.
No idea why.
Though, one could make a case for the German shells, having an HE component to them
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Denniss on February 02, 2018, 02:21:26 PM
Standard german AP tank ammo had a small HE filler. As far as I understand the description of the special 3/3.7cm projetiles they had a special light alloy casing that melted during the penetration and acted like incendiary ammo.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: RODBUSTR on February 03, 2018, 04:43:45 PM
What convergence did Rudel use? And what angle of attack?
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: save on February 05, 2018, 05:05:05 AM
That is how I understood it too. The problems with light armored vehicles is thatprojectile never melts, but create a hole in, and one on it's way out, and everything in between, , typically happens to APC's, and maybe old Volvo cars :lol
Standard german AP tank ammo had a small HE filler. As far as I understand the description of the special 3/3.7cm projetiles they had a special light alloy casing that melted during the penetration and acted like incendiary ammo.
Title: Re: Ju-87G
Post by: Denniss on February 05, 2018, 05:20:45 AM
They were supposed to kill tanks with this special and likely rare ammo, not light armored vehicles. I doubt they would have used it vs light tanks either but everything from T-34 and up.