Post by: bustr on March 04, 2018, 01:54:51 PM
I found a way to make your tank invisible for real.
I was flying a storch helping a tanker try to find a GV that was shelling our field. GVDAR said he was right there with us, I couldn't see him, my tanker couldn't see him and the tracer of each round was coming out of a space on the slope of a tree covered hill that was all tan grass. Every time I would fly up and near that empty space a round would take out my storch. My tanker and I would compare what we saw and he was convinced the enemy GV was in the woods on the top of the hill rather than lower on the grass covered slope where the tracer originated. So I change my flight path to look at the area the tracer would always originate from and I see exactly where the tracer originated. Seems with the default graphics settings I was finally close enough to see the bushes under a lone tree out in the open on that slope. But, the GV was shut down and I saw no Icon and no GV inside of the bushes he had driven into and shut down in. Only the origination flash and tracer. So I spent the next 5 minutes convincing my tanker to drive to that tree and look for a GV. He get there and now he is unhappy and thinks I'm wrong. But, that is exactly where the flash and tracer line originates from now each time I test it by letting the GVer shoot my storch. So to make me happy my tanker shoots point blank blind into the center of the bushes and he gets a kill.
So if you want to hide from the consequences of GVDAR, find those bushes Hitech set to allow you to drive through them. Only drive into them until your GV is fully covered, then shut down. GVDAR will say you are there, storch's will not be able to see you nor GV's passing by just next to you. And you probably can shoot them and not get found for some time. I hope turning off tracers does not turn off tank main gun tracer lines. It was only becasue of that while sacrificing a few storch's to triangulate the GV's location did I discover how to hide from GVDAR.
Post by: colmbo on March 04, 2018, 02:02:37 PM
Post by: molybdenum on March 04, 2018, 03:36:49 PM
I found a way to make your tank invisible for real....
So if you want to hide from the consequences of GVDAR, find those bushes Hitech set to allow you to drive through them. Only drive into them until your GV is fully covered, then shut down. GVDAR will say you are there, storch's will not be able to see you nor GV's passing by just next to you. And you probably can shoot them and not get found for some time. I hope turning off tracers does not turn off tank main gun tracer lines. It was only becasue of that while sacrificing a few storch's to triangulate the GV's location did I discover how to hide from GVDAR.
I'm sure your discovery will appeal to some players, but imo it just exacerbates the problems the institution of the GV dar created. Now it's even more logical to hide vs fight. And even sneaky people like me wanted a fight at some point! Hide and seek is tedious and draws players away from more dynamic stuff the community as a whole would enjoy; and so, this loophole (right word?) is a problem.
And (not trying to be pedantic here, this is a main concern of mine) the GV did not hide from GV dar. It just hid from searchers. The GV dar still announced that a well-hidden GV was there somewhere in a certain radius, and that knives the stealth aspect of GVing that's so important. Your discovery doesn't help people like me avoid the consequences of GV dar in the slightest.
Post by: bustr on March 04, 2018, 03:46:48 PM
It's probably one of those gray area loop holes in the game functions that fixing it may have more unintended consequences than it's worth. So I'm posting how it works as a heads up for everyone to know about a new cloaking wrinkle to the game. If you are getting shot and can't see the bad guy no matter what you do, lay a few rounds into bushes or clumps of small trees you know you can drive your tank through. Now I know how I killed two M3 in some bushes where I saw only one run into to hide from me. I just poured rounds from my IL2 into the bushes blind and got two kills on the return pass.
Post by: icepac on March 04, 2018, 04:21:29 PM
Post by: TyFoo on March 04, 2018, 06:32:32 PM
I wasn't aware that shelling a base constitutes hiding from GV dar. The player certainly didn't seem to be avoiding engagement. Especially if he was shooting your Storch out of the air. Which evidently you “let” him do more than once.
Since when is hiding in bushes an exploit? What was HT thinking when he included vegetation in the game? I gather from the discussion that GV’s in WWII used other means of camouflage and would never have thought to hide under a tree or in a bush!....lol
Oh and where is the evidence that the enemy player knows of and is safe guarding an exploit in the game?
I don’t see the OP participate in the ground war and that’s not to say he does or does not. But here is a little tidbit.....Any GV’er with the slightest experience or even a new player that has been shot down 25+ times will use all resources available to extend their playing time per sortie. Maybe it’s shutting down the engine to listen for other vehicles, or putting a tree in between himself and an approaching GV, hide around a corner, sit on or over a hill, hide under trees from approaching aircraft or heaven forbid hide in a bush. It’s not new, not an exploit, and certainly not a secret.
BTW ......the guy that shot you, is very experienced, well liked by all sides - shoots multiple Storches down each month and I don’t ever recall him being accused of hiding from GV dar or exploiting or safeguarding secret weaknesses in the game.
Post by: TyFoo on March 04, 2018, 06:48:19 PM
(That’s a Charlie Brown reference in case it gets lost in translation)..... :)
Post by: bustr on March 04, 2018, 07:17:54 PM
To know the specifics you just presented, you are either him or spend time as his ride along buddy. As for your attention span for reading...that is your problem. And your assumption of a monolithic group of players who collectively know everything about GV's in this game, is the same as saying you speak for all the voters in your country becasue they all know the same things you do.
Interesting vitriolic reaction to sharing information.
The root of what I observed I believe comes from the phenomenon of a plane flying over you sitting under a tree, at a pre-determined distance from the leaves in your line of sight, it's icon disappears and then reappears on the other side as it leaves that space around the leaves. The Icon which we should be able to see starting at I think 600 or 800 for a shut down vehicle is suppressed by that function making it totally invisible to even another vehical at point blank range. I doubt even Hitech was aware of this from my expereince in the 2 years of the alpha\beta. I could have simply documented it as a bug like I would have during the alpha\beta.
I decided telling the community about it for those who have yet to mind meld with you and Mano would be a better service for everyone. We will probably be seeing much more gratuitous lobbing of rounds into out of the way suspicious clumps of bushes or small trees known to allow your vehicle to drive through them.
I allowed mano to keep shooting down my storch to investigate the phenomenon and determine the root of it since it appeared to me to be a game bug. I don't really care if you or mano walk on green jello and part tubs of beer with a wave of your main guns when it comes to GV's in AH3, I was trying to understand a potential bug I was witnessing and mano was helping me identify it's parameters.
You are the person who outed mano just now, I never gave the name of the tanker who I was scouting for, the vbase's number, the name of the map or, the name of the Gver we were looking for. That would have been unkind to him in my opinion.
Post by: Rondar on March 04, 2018, 07:46:03 PM
I allowed mano to keep shooting down my storch to investigate the phenomenon and determine the root of it since it appeared to me to be a game bug. I don't really care if you or mano walk on green jello and part tubs of beer with a wave of your main guns when it comes to GV's in AH3, I was trying to understand a potential bug I was witnessing and mano was helping me identify it's parameters.
You are the person who outed mano just now, I never gave the name of the tanker who I was scouting for, the vbase's number, the name of the map or, the name of the Gver we were looking for. That would have been unkind to him in my opinion.
But you did Bustr.
Post by: Mano on March 04, 2018, 07:58:23 PM
It's an unintended consequence of the new system. Some players look for those and guard that secret from others and exploit it at every opportunity. I just report them as bugs as I find them. If you park under a tree and watch planes fly by, you will see there is a zone around the foliage that the plane's icon disappears as you view the plane up through the foliage. I suspect parking inside of the cluster of bushes did that in reverse to my storch and my tanker I was vectoring to the hidden GV's location.
It's probably one of those gray area loop holes in the game functions that fixing it may have more unintended consequences than it's worth. So I'm posting how it works as a heads up for everyone to know about a new cloaking wrinkle to the game. If you are getting shot and can't see the bad guy no matter what you do, lay a few rounds into bushes or clumps of small trees you know you can drive your tank through. Now I know how I killed two M3 in some bushes where I saw only one run into to hide from me. I just poured rounds from my IL2 into the bushes blind and got two kills on the return pass.
Why did you post here instead of the Aces High Bug Reports Forum?
Please take a good look at Rule number 4 and number 7.
Looks like you have been M-8’d again.
:D
Post by: bustr on March 04, 2018, 08:23:51 PM
I didn't experience the bug Lyric posted for Hitech, and the M8 I used which was the vehical type that shot me down from the bushes does not disappear totally at point blank behind it like the tanker last night. I hope I don't need to put Montis up as a custom arena and get a squadmate to duplicate the M8 hiding for me just to see if F3 and driving up to an M8 in another vehicle are rendered differently due to the object perspective.
The tanker couldn't see the M8 and shot a round into the bushes just in case, which blew up the M8. I couldn't see the M8 in my storch close enough to be an easy single shot for an M8 each time I flew over that location. I kept flying over it to try and identify what appeared to be a bug becasue the M8 was invisible and only showed it's mussel flash and round tracer. That is all the tanker I was helping ever saw.
Here is the bush the M8 was hiding in and I'm in F3 as close as the tanker was last night when he fired into that bush just in case something was actually in it. I spent 10 minutes trying to make that M8 disappear, last night's M8 driver must known something about the M8 I don't. Or F3 view mode and being in a different vehicle are slightly different to how you are seeing things in that environment.
415055,527,281675,1.7,-16.4,84.9
montis
FOV = 73.5
(https://s20.postimg.org/rcaru5dsd/bush01.jpg)
These last two are just to cover the bases of the closest near by groups of bushes that could hide an M8. I couldn't make my M8 hide from view, some part always showed while the M2 on top is always exposed above that kind of bush. Last night not even that was visible.
(https://s20.postimg.org/4au6oe6f1/bush02.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.org/gcpkijv31/bush03.jpg)
Post by: Max on March 04, 2018, 08:48:34 PM
Post by: eddiek on March 04, 2018, 09:04:59 PM
Just looking at the pics I am beginning to understand and notice things I just took for granted.
Top pic, look at that tree.....look at the base, the trunk, the leaves. In real life, that tree would be ten, maybe fifteen feet tall. Scaling it against the GV, the trunk is like 3-4 feet in diameter. The fork in the trunk looks like a relatively young tree, but the leaves are what? 2-3 feet long?
In short, looking at the pics, our trees are out of scale to the GV's. We have giant trees and bushes, allowing hiding places.
Not sure about the second and third pics.....the trunks are THICK, looks like what....4-5 foot diameter trunks?
Now my question is, after viewing these pics.......how "to scale" are the trees and shrubs and bushes in the game?
That top tree.....seen trees like that all my life, none of which in real lift are as tall as in AH3. Once they get as tall as we see in game, they are more spread out and have more forks and such. Should be much smaller in size, and just about the same height as the GV in the pic.
Just my thoughts.......nothing is perfect, and HT and company have a limited set of objects to work with.....but now I am gonna look more closely when I am in game.
Post by: molybdenum on March 04, 2018, 09:26:10 PM
Why did you post here instead of the Aces High Bug Reports Forum?
Please take a good look at Rule number 4 and number 7.
Looks like you have been M-8’d again.
:D
Just a guess, mano, but I'm thinking bustr posted here vs the bug forum because he expected an avalanche of happiness from GVers as opposed to truly wanting a fix to a game problem.
I mean, look at the title of the thread. "How To Hide From GV Dar"...it is so totally not that. I suspect it was a clumsy attempt to try to evoke support for GV invisibility from a GV community that simply wants a level playing field vs the A20 ilk. Yet another misdirection/straw man argument from someone who either has reading comprehension issues or is fundamentally dishonest when it comes to issues on which he has strong opinions.
Post by: Mano on March 04, 2018, 09:54:24 PM
The 2500 word diatribe.
:salute
Post by: redcatcherb412 on March 05, 2018, 08:53:30 AM
I find M8's hard to see over 500 yards away. Mano and Tyfoo have sat still in the open in green areas and peppered me repeatedly as I spin my turret like a top trying to get a fix on them. Almost as invisible as jeeps sitting still.
Post by: scott66 on March 05, 2018, 02:19:43 PM
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 05, 2018, 08:33:04 PM
Why did you post here instead of the Aces High Bug Reports Forum?
Please take a good look at Rule number 4 and number 7.
Looks like you have been M-8’d again.
:D
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Post by: Mano on March 06, 2018, 11:23:53 AM
Wouldn't turning off ground clutter help ?
I find M8's hard to see over 500 yards away. Mano and Tyfoo have sat still in the open in green areas and peppered me repeatedly as I spin my turret like a top trying to get a fix on them. Almost as invisible as jeeps sitting still.
Ground clutter is only visible at close range so it will have no effect at long range. Also,
turning off ground clutter does turn off the shrubbery. Looks like you will have to learn the M-8
:D
C ya out there Red
:salute
Post by: waystin2 on March 06, 2018, 02:15:31 PM
(https://sg.openrice.com/userphoto/Article/0/1A/00097U791F1193B7621F00j.jpg)
Post by: mxdew03 on March 06, 2018, 07:56:36 PM
Post by: rvflyer on March 07, 2018, 01:11:14 AM
Mano is tyfoo trained and they both spend more time in m8s than I do in my Peterbilt.. They are experts in their field.. There is no hiding from gvdar ... I've lost around 50 storches to tyfoo and or mano.. To them it's like skeet shooting.. And they get allot of practice so if you fly low enough you will die... But as of last night manos m8 couldn't escape my heavy jug :) I'll teach you mano to kill my panzer!!
Post by: Zardoz on March 07, 2018, 09:25:39 AM
Post by: lunatic1 on March 07, 2018, 10:14:44 AM
One last thing.......If you do respond try and keep it under 250,000 words. Otherwise you will lose me at wah wah wah wah waaaaaa.....
(That’s a Charlie Brown reference in case it gets lost in translation)..... :)
LOL TyFoo hehe
Post by: lunatic1 on March 07, 2018, 10:17:20 AM
So are you mano in the game? And do you have only the reading attention span of a twitter user......
To know the specifics you just presented, you are either him or spend time as his ride along buddy. As for your attention span for reading...that is your problem. And your assumption of a monolithic group of players who collectively know everything about GV's in this game, is the same as saying you speak for all the voters in your country becasue they all know the same things you do.
Interesting vitriolic reaction to sharing information.
The root of what I observed I believe comes from the phenomenon of a plane flying over you sitting under a tree, at a pre-determined distance from the leaves in your line of sight, it's icon disappears and then reappears on the other side as it leaves that space around the leaves. The Icon which we should be able to see starting at I think 600 or 800 for a shut down vehicle is suppressed by that function making it totally invisible to even another vehical at point blank range. I doubt even Hitech was aware of this from my expereince in the 2 years of the alpha\beta. I could have simply documented it as a bug like I would have during the alpha\beta.
I decided telling the community about it for those who have yet to mind meld with you and Mano would be a better service for everyone. We will probably be seeing much more gratuitous lobbing of rounds into out of the way suspicious clumps of bushes or small trees known to allow your vehicle to drive through them.
I allowed mano to keep shooting down my storch to investigate the phenomenon and determine the root of it since it appeared to me to be a game bug. I don't really care if you or mano walk on green jello and part tubs of beer with a wave of your main guns when it comes to GV's in AH3, I was trying to understand a potential bug I was witnessing and mano was helping me identify it's parameters.
You are the person who outed mano just now, I never gave the name of the tanker who I was scouting for, the vbase's number, the name of the map or, the name of the Gver we were looking for. That would have been unkind to him in my opin
wow just wow bustr did you not read who posted it^^^ talk about attention span seems bustr has a real short one lol
Post by: 27th on March 07, 2018, 12:52:04 PM
One last thing.......If you do respond try and keep it under 250,000 words. Otherwise you will lose me at wah wah wah wah waaaaaa.....
(That’s a Charlie Brown reference in case it gets lost in translation)..... :)
No kidding. Its more useless rhetoric.
It's just another swipe at the people who enjoy GV'ing. There is already a big neon sign pointing where you are. Trees and foliage is the only defense. Try to take away more.
:salute
27th
Post by: scott66 on March 07, 2018, 01:53:04 PM
I heard old truckers never go away they just get a new Peterbilt. :)it's true lol just had mine rebuilt two weeks ago just took the bandages off last night :banana:
Post by: wil3ur on March 07, 2018, 03:04:36 PM
Post by: zack1234 on March 08, 2018, 02:19:31 AM
Post by: JimmyC on March 08, 2018, 03:04:18 AM
Zim zimmer...
Post by: Ciaphas on March 08, 2018, 07:00:28 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: RUSH1 on March 08, 2018, 11:49:00 AM
Post by: Rondar on March 08, 2018, 01:34:42 PM
Post by: RUSH1 on March 08, 2018, 02:47:04 PM
^ LOL I bet mano just lol'ed so hard he spit his caviar and champaign out.
He'll see it later this afternoon. Right now he's on the golf course.
Post by: Mano on March 08, 2018, 03:35:40 PM
It's true !!! Back when HiTech was still putting his finishing touches on AH3.
:salute
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 08, 2018, 08:44:01 PM
Those bushes need taking out of gameHere comes the whines again. :rolleyes:
Post by: Electroman on March 21, 2018, 01:03:32 PM
They (and others using similar tactics) are the players we love to hate...for good reason...so when you learn the knowledge share for all so we can level the playing field :)
Post by: Mano on March 21, 2018, 06:44:35 PM
See those bushes Elec1? They are there for GV's to hide in. That is exactly why HiTech put them in the game. GV's in World War 2 did hide under cover, where ever they could, trees, bushes, burnt out buildings, under bridges, made up camouflage from tree branches or nets, anything to avoid detection.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/59/0a/9e/590a9e94c1eeab2782df947418b2a0d9.jpg)
The tanks were also painted to blend into their environment with various schemes best suited for the terrain that
they would be crossing. AH3 has lots of skins to choose from.
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/11/03/32/95/314.jpg)
(http://orig12.deviantart.net/ef17/f/2013/159/6/2/us_military_m8_greyhound_by_metalarch-d68abcb.jpg)
AH3 has is all.
:salute
Post by: redcatcherb412 on March 21, 2018, 07:46:27 PM
Post by: mERv on March 21, 2018, 08:58:18 PM
And if not im sure we can get a community pot going for Bustr so he can sit on his keister for a month and pump out some more gems :cheers:
Hell I would pay a solid 20 flat if it went towards paying someones salary to live the american dream and keep us fed with regular map updates and new maps every 30 days....
Post by: rvflyer on March 23, 2018, 07:44:29 PM
I hope we have some easter eggs to look forward to in future map updates....
And if not im sure we can get a community pot going for Bustr so he can sit on his keister for a month and pump out some more gems :cheers:
Hell I would pay a solid 20 flat if it went towards paying someones salary to live the american dream and keep us fed with regular map updates and new maps every 30 days....
Post by: RODBUSTR on March 24, 2018, 01:29:58 PM
Post by: molybdenum on March 25, 2018, 09:44:44 AM
I've got a fool proof way to avoid the much hated gv dar. I just don't do gvs anymore. have a blast.
Or, translated into GVerese, "Have a lot less fun."
Post by: germ on March 25, 2018, 12:35:55 PM
It's an unintended consequence of the new system. Some players look for those and guard that secret from others and exploit it at every opportunity. I just report them as bugs as I find them.
Hiding in bush, or cover, is what we trained to do in the Army when I was a 19 Kilo (M1A1 tank crewman). We'd literally cover our tanks in foliage and back up into the tree line. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.
Post by: scott66 on March 26, 2018, 04:07:48 AM
Post by: redcatcherb412 on March 26, 2018, 09:23:00 AM
Hiding in bush, or cover, is what we trained to do in the Army when I was a 19 Kilo (M1A1 tank crewman). We'd literally cover our tanks in foliage and back up into the tree line. This isn't a bug, it's a feature.If you're trying to take a town or clear a spawn and there's 6 IL's and A20's circling then it's a blooming necessity if you want more than 30 second sorties. If no military ever needed to camoflage themselves and their equipment then all uniforms and vehicle paint would be bright purple.
Post by: mERv on March 26, 2018, 02:36:34 PM
Why do we want easter eggs in a war sim?I will take the bait :cheers:
As in logging in one day and drive to a basefrom spawn. Along the way I discover a new burm that wasnt there before adding some new cover and surprise. Things like that and new tree and bush placements to keep it fresh. Fine tuning elements on the map ect. Things that keep people busy in the age of gv dar.
Post by: Devil 505 on March 26, 2018, 03:01:37 PM
If you're trying to take a town or clear a spawn and there's 6 IL's and A20's circling then it's a blooming necessity if you want more than 30 second sorties. If no military ever needed to camoflage themselves and their equipment then all uniforms and vehicle paint would be bright purple.
Ever think to tell the fighter pilots that there are 6 tank hunters at your location? I bet if you had there would be a dozen Doras there in short order to feast on them.
The problem is not the GV dar, it's the GVer's desire to be isolated from the rest of the game.
Post by: redcatcherb412 on March 26, 2018, 03:39:58 PM
Ever think to tell the fighter pilots that there are 6 tank hunters at your location? I bet if you had there would be a dozen Doras there in short order to feast on them.
The problem is not the GV dar, it's the GVer's desire to be isolated from the rest of the game.
Shhhhh i'm talking to GVers of which you aren't. :D
Post by: mERv on March 26, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
Ever think to tell the fighter pilots that there are 6 tank hunters at your location? I bet if you had there would be a dozen Doras there in short order to feast on them.I never understood that gripe..
The problem is not the GV dar, it's the GVer's desire to be isolated from the rest of the game.
Post by: icepac on March 26, 2018, 05:48:31 PM
It was fun to kill the train killers.
Post by: Mano on March 26, 2018, 08:05:31 PM
I kill stuff.... That is all
Last night I saw you tip toe past my hiding spot with a t-34/76 using a foilage camouflage skin. I did not know it was you. You are usually driving your Volkswagen H.
Kaboom, buffer said Scotty dead. You drove right through the rook center spawn. We were hunting
A 49,er at the time. He was not cooperating. :rofl
Post by: scott66 on March 27, 2018, 04:16:31 AM
Last night I saw you tip toe past my hiding spot with a t-34/76 using a foilage camouflage skin. I did not know it was you. You are usually driving your Volkswagen H.so I could blame my death on 49jagpaw! ya that's only the third time I've ever been in a t34 and the GPS was out of my Peterbilt I haven't updated the maps in it cause I'm too cheap... garmin ... Pfffft
Kaboom, buffer said Scotty dead. You drove right through the rook center spawn. We were hunting
A 49,er at the time. He was not cooperating. :rofl
Post by: molybdenum on March 29, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Ever think to tell the fighter pilots that there are 6 tank hunters at your location? I bet if you had there would be a dozen Doras there in short order to feast on them.
The problem is not the GV dar, it's the GVer's desire to be isolated from the rest of the game.
1) With the numbers nowadays it's hard to recruit people on short notice, even when the payoff would be low and heavy GV hunters. Especially when transit time to target in such a situation would probably be longer than the survival time of the GV they were hunting in the first place. If anyone ever took you up on that bet, you'd lose.
2) What on earth is your issue with GVers? This isn't a rhetorical question: I'd really appreciate an answer, because I read what you said but I just don't get it. Even if GVers "desire to be islolated from the rest of the game" (which isn't true, but we'll run with that for now), so what? It's their $15, and if that's what they like why is it an issue for you? It wouldn't impact your game play experience in the slightest.