Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 8thJinx on May 27, 2018, 09:26:18 AM
-
Mark me down as a player that thinks some method of GV notification helps promote action. So far we have had real-time GV icons, then some first passes at the red GV dar, then round GV quadrant dar, and now 3 mile square GV sector dar.
I'm working on a Tank Night GV terrain, with hedgerows and such, and it got me thinking that in Normandy it was the infantry's job to provide the intel that directed where the limited air and armor resources were supposed to go to counter enemy armor. My great uncle was a runner in the 4th ID, and he literally ran around hedgerow country from June 6th through July delivering intel that there were tanks spotted in this village or in the fields by that canal.
What if instead of a fixed 3-mile red square, we have a red GV icon at the center of that 3 mile square. It still serves the purpose of notifying that there are GVs present. But it makes it a little less gamey. It changes the current game play of "all I need to do is find the GV inside of this red square" and returns it to "there is a GV present in this vicinity, and I need to hunt for it."
I suppose one could argue 'what difference does it make if it's a red square or a red GV icon.' I would argue that a red GV icon removes the oddity of having a red square on the map, a feature that can be quickly and efficiently searched from the air since you know the edges of the red square, and returns it to something closer to a simple report of "there are GVs over there." You wouldn't know where the edge of the search area is with just an icon. In fact you could play around with size of the sector: 2 mile, 3 mile, 4 mile, etc.
In the AvA arenas, we can turn off GV dar, turn on GV icons, and time-delay the position update on the GV icons so that you don't really know where the GV actually is at the moment. All you know is that there are GVs there. It's a lot more fun. The extension of that is no GV dar + simple GV icon at the center of the sector.
-
Sounds good to me. I have a hard time differentiating between the current airplane dar bar and the gv bar. But I confess I don't frequent the "Main Arena" enough to keep up with the changes.
-
+1
:salute
-
I like it.
Mark me down as a player that thinks some method of GV notification helps promote action. So far we have had real-time GV icons, then some first passes at the red GV dar, then round GV quadrant dar, and now 3 mile square GV sector dar.
I'm working on a Tank Night GV terrain, with hedgerows and such, and it got me thinking that in Normandy it was the infantry's job to provide the intel that directed where the limited air and armor resources were supposed to go to counter enemy armor. My great uncle was a runner in the 4th ID, and he literally ran around hedgerow country from June 6th through July delivering intel that there were tanks spotted in this village or in the fields by that canal.
What if instead of a fixed 3-mile red square, we have a red GV icon at the center of that 3 mile square. It still serves the purpose of notifying that there are GVs present. But it makes it a little less gamey. It changes the current game play of "all I need to do is find the GV inside of this red square" and returns it to "there is a GV present in this vicinity, and I need to hunt for it."
I suppose one could argue 'what difference does it make if it's a red square or a red GV icon.' I would argue that a red GV icon removes the oddity of having a red square on the map, a feature that can be quickly and efficiently searched from the air since you know the edges of the red square, and returns it to something closer to a simple report of "there are GVs over there." You wouldn't know where the edge of the search area is with just an icon. In fact you could play around with size of the sector: 2 mile, 3 mile, 4 mile, etc.
In the AvA arenas, we can turn off GV dar, turn on GV icons, and time-delay the position update on the GV icons so that you don't really know where the GV actually is at the moment. All you know is that there are GVs there. It's a lot more fun. The extension of that is no GV dar + simple GV icon at the center of the sector.
-
Sounds good, but anything is better than what we have now.
-
Gah. No. There needs to be a guide. Hence the square.
-
I liked it better without GV Radar. I think it's too precise. Maybe when buildings are added some will just create a darbar for vehicles within x range of it, and a alert delay to simulate the flow of information. Maybe also have buildings occupied by partisan resistance that inform on the defending team.
-
Or have a dar bar just like for planes. If base radar is down that's all you see, if radar is up you'll get your little squares.
-
While I like Jinx idea you think there would be a cooler way to promote GV fights.
Is there even a remote possibility to code in our vehicles to leave tracks in the ground that disappeared two or three minutes after leaving them. At least then you would know there was a GV in the area IF you happened upon their tracks also you would be able to track them down more realistically.
-
Gah. No. There needs to be a guide. Hence the square.
Exactly.
-
When the base used to flash it was enough, in all honesty. The first time a GV got close enough to fire on the field, or within 3.2k you could quickly sortie a tank and kill them. If you were too slow and the hangar got dropped, well that's part of the game too.
If you have to have something to tell you that a GV is in the sector then a separate indicator is acceptable, but the square should come only after someone has designated the area through location. The way it is takes the fun out of it.
-
Yeah but this squirrel was telling me that people worked really hard to write the gv radar program. Nobody wants to see that much work that is that boring and tedious sit on the shelf.
-
The only thing GVDAR seems to have really accomplished is more players running a film, logging off, and pinpointing the hidden GV when they log back in. I'm not sure that is progress but, it appears to have helped some GVers to up their GV hiding skills.
You now hear players tell each other they will give the search x amount more time, then film and smack the hider. People do not like turning their back on a hidden GV the GVDAR tells them is within easy range of their field if they leave out of frustration. With that gamey consequence driven by frustration, I'm not sure what GVDAR is "now" accomplishing. Granted players ran film to locate GV's before GVDAR, I just didn't hear so many players talking about it as a standard game procedure before GVDAR. More back then looked down on it is gamey while now out of frustration are embracing it. Might as well show tank dots on the map and be done with it since players have come up with a solution almost the same. Then you could argue for making tank icons easier to see than they are now and do away with GVDAR.
-
Waystin, Devil505 your biased just like me, so lets stay out of the conversation. :bolt:
-
Personally I still think the idea of GVDar implementation was a bad idea but I've come to accept it and use it as others have. As soon as I see GVDar now I'll up a bomb**** plane just as others have done to me, or a storch to hunt it down while others flush it out in tanks. The odd occasion I will use film to find the hiding GV as Bustr mentions when someone is really irritating and flashing a town / base for a long period of time to get rid of them.
I think if the GVDar stays which it obviously will it simply needed to be tweaked - i.e. - when the base radar goes down, GVDar also goes down. This is one of the biggest frustrations with it today as implemented. When dar ring goes down you lose visual area on aircraft but GVDar you still have the 3 mile sector pinpointed and can tell when vehicles move from one area to the next. It is lopsided - period. You can argue all you want that an airplane can travel faster / cover a search area more for other aircraft but it handicaps GV'ers when an airplane can also search in a specific area still with the dar up when it should be down.
Fix that first...
Cheers,
Elec1
-
Personally I still think the idea of GVDar implementation was a bad idea but I've come to accept it and use it as others have. As soon as I see GVDar now I'll up a bomb**** plane just as others have done to me, or a storch to hunt it down while others flush it out in tanks. The odd occasion I will use film to find the hiding GV as Bustr mentions when someone is really irritating and flashing a town / base for a long period of time to get rid of them.
I think if the GVDar stays which it obviously will it simply needed to be tweaked - i.e. - when the base radar goes down, GVDar also goes down. This is one of the biggest frustrations with it today as implemented. When dar ring goes down you lose visual area on aircraft but GVDar you still have the 3 mile sector pinpointed and can tell when vehicles move from one area to the next. It is lopsided - period. You can argue all you want that an airplane can travel faster / cover a search area more for other aircraft but it handicaps GV'ers when an airplane can also search in a specific area still with the dar up when it should be down.
Fix that first...
Cheers,
Elec1
Except with the radar down, you still have bardar in the sector to find aircraft. You're essentially saying "Give us a trivial means to stop the GVdar." HT isn't that dim.
Wiley.
-
What we need is a pie chart demonstrating any differences between pre-GVdar GV usage, vs post-GVdar. I'm sure HTC has that tool.
-
The area a GV will be operating around a field due to the average distance spawns are placed from feilds is about a 6 mile diameter. Hitech could always change the block dar to a 6mile diameter color inside of the 18 mile aircraft dar ring. Maybe too much visually since the relatively small blocks are visually easier to notice. Have it stay up like the blocks but then it does not semi pinpoint a GV, just says one or more are there until they are destroyed or the base is captured.
The dar blocks at least on the rook side where I play don't seem to move people to intercept M3 which I've witnessed base assaults fall apart with everyone yelling about how were the town guns not staying down and they could see a dar block at the spawn the whole time. I watch more players wait until they see a main gun tracer before they start looking for tanks while a dar block has been sitting there for some time. Trees foil the dar blocks unless the GVer has decided to move across the terrain. Once the dar block is sitting on the field, I watch everyone not be able to find the enemy tank no differently than all the years previously to dar blocks. And everyone yells the same things at each other and runs around in circles PO'd at each other like they did before the dar blocks.
It seems for some players the dar blocks are not as helpful as other players in locating GV's. And shutting down under a 5 tree canopy foils the GVDAR well enough using a film is now a gamey standard GV locating tactic. And it works as far as I can tell 100% of the time. There is something not right about that in a sense that many GVers have adapted to the new trees to solve their problems with being bombed in very skilled manners. While running a flim takes "zero" skill to get a kill on them.
I don't like GV's but, I spend an inordinate amount of time at the GV level of my terrains building terrain for GV "customers". They are as important to the future of this game as airplane players. So it's easy to appreciate the imbalanced disconnect of a GVer working very hard to become skilled at hiding his tank in the terrain while anyone with no skill other than knowing how to turn on the film recorder can minutes later destroy that GVer. That is wrong on so many levels since this is a game and not a real life war where our lives are at stake.
-
Except with the radar down, you still have bardar in the sector to find aircraft. You're essentially saying "Give us a trivial means to stop the GVdar." HT isn't that dim.
Wiley.
No - what I'm saying is you can still show there is a GVDar bar - just not pinpoint the 3 mile square where it is now and moves with the vehicle if the radar is down.
I'm not that dim either...and some thought did go into this.
-
No - what I'm saying is you can still show there is a GVDar bar - just not pinpoint the 3 mile square where it is now and moves with the vehicle if the radar is down.
I'm not that dim either...and some thought did go into this.
Given the difficulty of spotting a GV from the air, having the search area narrowed down to 3 square miles is only just adequate.
-
Given the difficulty of spotting a GV from the air, having the search area narrowed down to 3 square miles is only just adequate.
Again - you've missed the point...what I am saying is balancing the fairness of dar when dar is down on a base. Having dar show tracking of a vehicle in a 3 mile square when dar is down is not fair. Otherwise...do the same for airplanes when dar is down as well.
-
I suppose it’s all relative to the skill, focus and patience of the player hunting GV’s.
The GVdar only quickens the cat and mouse game that is GV hunting.
Before GVdar: one mouse in a 50,000 sq ft building and 5 people looking for it.
After GVdar: one mouse in 10,000 sq for building with an approximate location based on the turds and chew damage it has left behind.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Again - you've missed the point...what I am saying is balancing the fairness of dar when dar is down on a base. Having dar show tracking of a vehicle in a 3 mile square when dar is down is not fair. Otherwise...do the same for airplanes when dar is down as well.
They do. There's a bardar indicator that covers about how far a plane can cover in 5 minutes. Similar to the GV square. Fairness, just like you asked for. Except fairness is not what you actually want, you want to go back to being The Invisible Man.
Wiley.
-
They do. There's a bardar indicator that covers about how far a plane can cover in 5 minutes. Similar to the GV square. Fairness, just like you asked for.
And it's still easier to find an aircraft in a 25 mile sector because of the 6K icons. It's also safer too since the but the time you see an icon on a Wirbelwind, you're in it's gun range.
-
They do. There's a bardar indicator that covers about how far a plane can cover in 5 minutes. Similar to the GV square. Fairness, just like you asked for. Except fairness is not what you actually want, you want to go back to being The Invisible Man.
Wiley.
No - again you've missed the point. It is much quicker for an aircraft to traverse a 3 mile square to bomb**** a GV than it is to travel a 25 mile square in an aircraft. There is an unbalance.
"Invisible Man" is no different than an aircraft that runs NOE or a goon that parks on land somewhere with it's icon identifier below the terrain. GV's can hide better in trees but that is not out of the norm compared to what it is like IRL. The GVDar is unrealistic. I'm simply pointing out it should be modified.
-
An aircraft will always cover an area of any size faster than a ground vehicle.
How is that an imbalance, that’s just a simple fact.
As far as being reworked, nah.
Stop fixating on it and watch how little you pay attention to it. Y’all are acting like it’s putting a massive target on your head.
At this point I think many people are fixating on this as if it was something they purchased that had a very minimal blemish. Stop letting it consume you!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
no
-
No - again you've missed the point. It is much quicker for an aircraft to traverse a 3 mile square to bomb**** a GV than it is to travel a 25 mile square in an aircraft. There is an unbalance.
"Invisible Man" is no different than an aircraft that runs NOE or a goon that parks on land somewhere with it's icon identifier below the terrain. GV's can hide better in trees but that is not out of the norm compared to what it is like IRL. The GVDar is unrealistic. I'm simply pointing out it should be modified.
That is spot on Electroman. It is not fair a fighter can traverse the current gv dar bar so quickly as compared to a fighter trying to find a bomber in
the current a/c dar bar.
The gv dar bar should be enlarged to the same specs as the dar bar for a/c or eliminate the gv dar bar. A base flashes when a gv is present and there is a red end sortie. The gv dar bar is overkill against the gv's. The gv's finally have some cover to hide in with the terrain update in AH3.
Why negate the cover?
:salute
-
Why negate the cover?
:salute
Because it is ridiculous that someone in the tower and spotters in the area would not have a bit of locational information on a tank that is maneuvering and firing near them?
Wiley.
-
Players are beginning to use the film to pinpoint hidden GVs now as a first choice tactic. A player going to the trouble to hide and shutdown will more often stay in that spot long enough for someone to log out, review the film, and come back and pinpoint the hidden GV. Is no one concerned about this unintended consequence which is creating pinpoint GVDAR? It kind of makes this argument moot. Or will it have to reach the point that every sortie against a GVDAR block like telling someone to bring troops or an M3 for resupply. Someone film this and give us the location. You don't think the block dar boxes are not evolving this tactic?
-
Players are beginning to use the film to pinpoint hidden GVs now as a first choice tactic. A player going to the trouble to hide and shutdown will more often stay in that spot long enough for someone to log out, review the film, and come back and pinpoint the hidden GV. Is no one concerned about this unintended consequence which is creating pinpoint GVDAR? It kind of makes this argument moot. Or will it have to reach the point that every sortie against a GVDAR block like telling someone to bring troops or an M3 for resupply. Someone film this and give us the location. You don't think the block dar boxes are not evolving this tactic?
Even more reason to just bring back the 6K icons for GV's.
-
This game tends to be a laboratory for long term tests of player responses to changes of their environment.
-
The Rooks owned the vehicle base near the Bishop flak strat. I listened to a Rook on range last night say as he is driving off to hide near the Bishop flak strat "don't count on me for anything just hiding out here where they can't find me. That way if the field gets captured they can't find me and I can still hit there strat when I wake up in the morning." This is why we have GV dar. This is also something that is wrong with this game. A big -1 to anything that would make crap like this easier.
-
I love GV dar! Even though I still often struggle to find the GV in the huge square.
-
Does a vehicle in the water trigger a GV dar box?
-
yes
-
... While running a flim takes "zero" skill to get a kill on them....
I'll run film when the GV is vultching aircraft on the runway.... Because rage and equal griefing. I hope you're not going to say that parking a GV overlooking a field and zeroing in on spawn location is "skill". about as much skill as upping inside the VH and backing up whilst waiting for enemy to capture the base to get easy spawn killz on people who just took the base...
*enough salt to supply Lays/old dutch for years* :devil
-
I see the GV police are at it again. :rolleyes:
-
In this case we are creating an unintended consequence to counter a hard earned skill set by GVers who are playing the game by the rules and the limitations of the terrain.
Alt_R and you have turned on delayed pinpoint GVDAR. The hiding GVer has no indication of a film running. Yes an expectation to constantly move to new hiding spots will have to happen. This will not make half of Hitech's customers feelgood about keeping their subscriptions since not all of them are Mano, Tyfoo or Dr7 in terms of tank ACM strategy. Even if the competitors have GV only arenas with their own version of GVDAR that is rather specific in some cases. In those games the end result is not a 1000lb bomb which even the TigerII is no match for. In those games your tank combat skills can counter the advantages of their GVDAR. In our game, bombs are not impressed unless players can start main gunning bombs out of the air.
This is a conundrum since it is helping otherwise good players get frustrated and start using gamey tactics as a standard solution to players using the terrain to their advantage. It is a ginormous PITA to have a tank inside that DAR block and 6 people not be able to find it. What does that one guy in the end have to look forward to? A 1000lb ticket back to the tower in seconds of being spotted if he is an average tank player.
Our GV game in the MA seems to be one of catering to extremes. Either you are an ace at concealment and mobility or, you take part in large scale offensives to attack capture-able positions to take advantage of the numbers and chaotic activity. And neither condition is immunity from an average player with bombs. Bringing back long range Icons from the old days will add an unfair burden to GVers since I reached to point in AH2 with those icons I could land up to 5 kills a sortie in an IL2 using only guns. With bombs, wirbles are sitting ducks and just mobile targets to pick up kills. And you don't have to be as careful with tanks to get bombs on them.
Running the film as a GVDAR substitute out of frustration will not end well for our community.
-
At that point Bustr it becomes the community defeating the community.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
yes
Does this mean a PT boat creates a GV dar box?
-
Does this mean a PT boat creates a GV dar box?
no