Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Reedrick on August 16, 2018, 04:50:08 PM
Title: Noob
Post by: Reedrick on August 16, 2018, 04:50:08 PM
Anyone willing to help a noob out? I'm absolutely terrible at this lol
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on August 16, 2018, 05:00:22 PM
I'm in the training arena at the moment.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Reedrick on August 16, 2018, 05:03:13 PM
ok ill be in there in a few
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Max on August 16, 2018, 06:11:36 PM
I'm available weekend mornings (Eastern time zone) for answers to "how do I" questions, basic flight maneuvers & general info. Shoot me a PM if interested.
Welcome to AH3 :salute
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: hgtonyvi on August 17, 2018, 01:42:55 AM
Reedrick what do you like to fly? I recommend sticking to a plane you love from ww2 and master it.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TWCAxew on August 17, 2018, 02:01:31 AM
If you live on the EU timezone I am more than happy to help you out.
Anyway I recommend reading this to understand the matchups: http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Aircraft_of_Aces_High_II
DutchVII
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Reedrick on August 19, 2018, 03:24:28 PM
Reedrick what do you like to fly? I recommend sticking to a plane you love from ww2 and master it.
I've always loved the P-38 thats what I've been using. I got the basics of flying and fighting down. Now I'm just trying to learn all the acronyms and how to actually capture points (what to target / how to supply troops etc) pretty much everything else lol
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: fuzeman on August 19, 2018, 03:31:50 PM
Anyone willing to help a noob out? I'm absolutely terrible at this lol
ABSOLUTELY!!! and you'll find many more to help. Visiting the Trainers site can not hurt, printable list of dot commands, and many topics to read and familiarize yourself with the addicti er game.
Forgot to add << S >> Welcome to THE BEST game on the interwebnetthingamajig.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Drano on August 19, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
"I've always loved the P-38 thats what I've been using."
This guy is OK with me!
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on August 19, 2018, 08:00:12 PM
Find him online or here and give him some of those "always fight up" tips you keep locked away in that mind of yours
Heck I only seem to manage a dozen or so hours of flying time a month other than FSO! Even so the fight almost always involves avoiding trees these days. So much for fighting up!
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on August 20, 2018, 08:15:49 AM
No worries I already recommended fighting vertically. :aok
True, you did. But I still always find myself getting greedy and doing things I shouldn't be doing in a 38. :lol
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TWCAxew on August 20, 2018, 11:05:05 AM
When an enemy attacks you and you make your defencive turn you should make yourself as small as possible. The P38 is a huge target when you turn into your enemy. I suggest just before he makes his shot at you you rotate horizontal and pull on the stick a bit or push down. A bit of ruder is generally good advice in any plane to slide sideways through the air when defending. Do this and you will become a much harder target to hit :old:
The P38 is not a real beginner plane IMO, it is a plane that shines in certain styles.
Planes I would recommend are: Spit 8 Spit 9 Spit 16 P51D Ki84 109K4 (shoot only 1 cannon at a time and correct for the drop, nail this and you become a master sniper. the main gun is useless and should only be used to make your enemy dodge whiles running. Add the trim up function you your stick, it will compress otherwise) Brewster for turn fights Zero for turn fights
If you must fly a P38 I would recommend the J version. Just because I like it more than the L...
Oh and consider joining the upcoming scenario in October! There will be walk-on spots available for the P38!! Scenarios are AWSOME! http://ahevents.net/index.php/events/scenarios/current-or-next-scenario
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: 1ijac on August 21, 2018, 12:45:14 PM
Reedrick,
If you still need some help with the game, I would be happy to sit down with you in-game and chat on the radio about all the aspects of the game and some strategies and how they affect the game. I have some printable maps I put together of everything and you are welcome to those also if needed. Just send me a private message with your e-mail if you are interested. If you want to chat in-game, just tell me in a private message when you are available and we can work out a time. I can be found on Rooks so you can also holler at me in-game. My handle ID in-game is 1ijac.
Cheers, One-eye
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: hgtonyvi on August 26, 2018, 01:28:45 AM
This community really gives a warm welcome.... :aok
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: lunaticfringe on September 15, 2018, 11:48:21 PM
I'm available weekend mornings (Eastern time zone) for answers to "how do I" questions, basic flight maneuvers & general info. Shoot me a PM if interested.
Welcome to AH3 :salute
can you teach me how to do a reversal
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 20, 2018, 12:43:45 AM
Horizontal 180 degree turn High Yo-yo Low Yo-yo Switch-back Slice-back Immelman Split-ese 180 degree bat turn etc.....stuff like a chandelle
Which reversal to use depends entirely on the situation you might find yourself in
or were you thinking of something else but called it a reversal? Example: Barrel Roll Defense, where you have an opponent coming in fast and hard on your "six", you sucker them in closer execute a barrel roll forcing your opponent to overshoot you and switching from being the defender and becoming the attacker.....
Hope this helps
TC
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Max on September 21, 2018, 07:07:45 AM
Heya TC
Could you please explain switch-back, slice-back, 180 degree bat turn?
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 07:20:16 AM
Maybe he meant pitch back, a climbing turn, instead of switchback, a zigzag road.
A slice back is a descending turn so you keep your speed up.
The bat turn is a stall turn, it can look like you rotate in place from relative motion as the other plane flies by.
The classic video. :D
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 09:01:45 AM
Maybe he meant pitch back, a climbing turn, instead of switchback, a zigzag road.
A slice back is a descending turn so you keep your speed up.
The bat turn is a stall turn, it can look like you rotate in place from relative motion as the other plane flies by.
The classic video. :D
Yep, I meant "Pitch-back", as FLS posted
Thanks for catching & providing the correct terminology FLS, much appreciated
I was just typing to fast and improperly typed it as I was trying to think of all the different types of reversals
~S~
TC
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 09:59:58 AM
What’s a switchback in comparison to a slice back?
A “bat turn” implies a hard turn reversal like a bat frequently does in flight. Calling it a “stall turn” implies stalling the aircraft in a turn, which a bat does not do nor do aircraft in reality A stall is loss of lift. Stalling an aircraft in air combat is self defeating and not a valid combat maneuver.
Noob, do a google search (or whatever you use) for the “energy egg” and then seek out someone in here who can teach you the basics of BFM and how to apply the energy egg.
Welcome! :salute
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 10:23:27 AM
There may be a variety turns that are called bat turns by various people at various times. I'm using my understanding of the Aces High usage which refers to something that's more than just a hard turn.
It's a stall turn because the stall and loss of yaw stability is what allows the propeller torque to rotate the aircraft.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 10:33:56 AM
There may be a variety turns that are called bat turns by various people at various times. I'm using my understanding of the Aces High usage which refers to something that's more than just a hard turn.
It's a stall turn because the stall and loss of yaw stability is what allows the propeller torque to rotate the aircraft.
More than a hard turn is commonly referred to as a break turn which generates maximum turn rate.
Stalling the aircraft (making you a nearly stationary target and out of control) vs a break turn where you have control of the aircraft and it’s flight vector doesn’t demonstrate efficient energy management.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 10:34:08 AM
Quote
A “bat turn” implies a hard turn reversal like a bat frequently does in flight.
to add that it's performed in such a manner as not to lose hardly any energy/speed yet maximizing your energy state and turn performance the best one possibly can
This is how I always thought of and explained/taught it
Hope this helps
TC
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 10:37:54 AM
And another reversal that I missed in my list....
Break Turn
(thanks Puma, I forgot about that one)
~S~
TC
Edit: all the turns I posted are BFM and some of the reversals are variations of others
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 10:47:53 AM
FLS, are you mixing up "bat turn" with what the AH 109K4 flyers refer to as.... Trying to remember but think they called it or referred to as Cobra or something similar to that?
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 10:50:31 AM
to add that it's performed in such a manner as not to lose hardly any energy/speed yet maximizing your energy state and turn performance the best one possibly can
This is how I always thought of and explained/taught it
Hope this helps
TC
TC, your description more aptly describes a “hard turn”. “Bat turn” is often used as a real world slang term when referring to a “Break turn”.
It’s disconcerting when those helping new players throw out self made terminology that can be defined differently by different people and only confuse the novice. It’s rare to see an instructor start out with the basics of BFM and energy management. For instance, the Jug video is a great compilation of snap shots, many off a pick and blow through.
It’s easy to see how a Newbie could go out and try to replicate those shots and be very disappointed and confused when they don’t work so well. The video shows many examples of the successful end game but, not how to get there. :salute
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 10:52:36 AM
More than a hard turn is commonly referred to as a break turn which generates maximum turn rate.
Stalling the aircraft (making you a nearly stationary target and out of control) vs a break turn where you have control of the aircraft and it’s flight vector doesn’t demonstrate efficient energy management.
The almost stationary vertical reversal is the hammerhead turn, also called a stall turn. It does not use torque to rotate like the bat turn.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 10:58:05 AM
FLS, are you mixing up "bat turn" with what the AH 109K4 flyers refer to as.... Trying to remember but think they called it or referred to as Cobra or something similar to that?
Do you think maybe they called it "bat turn"? It always sounded like they were trying to describe a torque maneuver without using any aero terms properly.
to add that it's performed in such a manner as not to lose hardly any energy/speed yet maximizing your energy state and turn performance the best one possibly can
This is how I always thought of and explained/taught it
Hope this helps
TC
Please demonstrate this awesome maneuver since your description lacks any sort of detail. :D
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 11:01:08 AM
The almost stationary vertical reversal is the hammerhead turn, also called a stall turn. It does not use torque to rotate like the bat turn.
Regardless of what you want to call it, a stationary target is an easy target. A bat turn isn’t performed by engine torque. It is a break turn generating maximum turn rate.
You made my point perfectly. Thanks. :salute
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 11:10:07 AM
Nobody is recommending any kind of turn.
Max asked for definitions.
The Bat Turn in Aces High that Max asked about is not a break turn.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 11:19:28 AM
The Bat Turn in Aces High that Max asked about is not a break turn.
Therefore, confusion among new and experienced players.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 11:27:26 AM
It is what it is. More recently tailslide has been abused to refer to a torque maneuver. You can't expect gamers to use proper terminology, but go ahead and yell at TC for posting it. :D
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 11:40:15 AM
I got to go fix dad's lunch and do his vitals and meds....
Puma mentioning that a "bat turn" is a break turn generating maximum turn rate, is very close to how I'm thinking of in my thoughts/theory of a bat turn
I'd like to continue to discuss the topic after I take care of Dad and go get our Groceries and by the pharmacy
If I posted anything wrong, I most definitely would hope to be corrected....the last thing I want is to post wrong information in this forum
~S~
TC
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on September 21, 2018, 11:45:20 AM
It is what it is. More recently tailslide has been abused to refer to a torque maneuver. You can't expect gamers to use proper terminology, but go ahead and yell at TC for posting it. :D
For posting what? Did I miss something?
Are you referring to me posting "bat turn" or are you referring to "tailslide"..... You lost me
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 21, 2018, 11:51:31 AM
It is what it is. More recently tailslide has been abused to refer to a torque maneuver. You can't expect gamers to use proper terminology, but go ahead and yell at TC for posting it. :D
There’s no yelling going on. Deflecting the issue to TC doesn’t work.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Kingpin on September 21, 2018, 02:49:41 PM
The real irony of this semantics discussion is that it was sparked by the following question:
He appears to be looking for BFM/ACM tips on how to perform a reversal, to maneuver from a defensive to an offensive position, not how to reverse, or change direction.
TC addressed both things, but I think came closest in his question about the Barrel Roll Defense. Likewise Puma, as usual, was on point when suggesting starting with the basics, like Energy state. TC and Puma exploring those lines they started on would probably be most helpful, if continuing a discussion about reversals.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 04:00:26 PM
Are you referring to me posting "bat turn" or are you referring to "tailslide"..... You lost me
He was saying they are similar, which Puma already corrected.
It would probably be best to avoid his semantics baiting and return the discussion to something helpful, like your mention of the BRD as one method of performing a reversal.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 05:11:57 PM
It's not semantics, Puma is saying the Air Forces uses the term differently than the casual Ace's High player, who often misuses terms. I agree with him.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 21, 2018, 05:19:00 PM
And it was TC that said switchback, I just corrected him.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 22, 2018, 10:28:21 AM
So, essentially another made up term to confuse those seeking to learn.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 22, 2018, 10:30:59 AM
You really need to read the thread more carefully. I haven't made anything up.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Puma44 on September 22, 2018, 11:02:51 AM
Interesting how you aren’t capable of explaining your made up terminology, don’t take responsibility for it, and attempt to turn the blame to others.
As a trainer, you have a responsibility to be accurate and consistent when “training”. Refusing to be accountable and consistently turning the issue back on someone who disagrees with you shows a gross lack of credibility.
Perhaps you are in the wrong business.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 22, 2018, 12:14:19 PM
Or it could be that you just need to read more carefully. :aok
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: ccvi on September 22, 2018, 12:48:12 PM
I've always loved the P-38 thats what I've been using. I got the basics of flying and fighting down. Now I'm just trying to learn all the acronyms and how to actually capture points (what to target / how to supply troops etc) pretty much everything else lol
Four pages, and noone has provided any kind of answer to the original authors question. Instead, the thread derailed into a discussion about someone elses question that was obviously intended as a joke.
Unfortunately, the original question cannot be answered easily by posting links. The first part of the question is easy:
The change description documents don't seem to have any page referring to them. They can only be accessed through the search function. What little general description exists (if it can be found) doesn't match to the current settings of the melee arena.
The search engine finds a lot of stuff, without incoming links. Is anyone reading that? Does it serve any kind of purpose?
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on September 22, 2018, 12:53:38 PM
His original question was can anyone help him.
The answer was yes and he got help. :aok
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Shuffler on October 02, 2018, 06:32:53 AM
I got to go fix dad's lunch and do his vitals and meds....
Puma mentioning that a "bat turn" is a break turn generating maximum turn rate, is very close to how I'm thinking of in my thoughts/theory of a bat turn
I'd like to continue to discuss the topic after I take care of Dad and go get our Groceries and by the pharmacy
If I posted anything wrong, I most definitely would hope to be corrected....the last thing I want is to post wrong information in this forum
~S~
TC
TC is correct. Taking care of Dad and real life first.
Gee another possible SAPP member.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: ccvi on October 02, 2018, 07:41:17 AM
The search engine finds a lot of stuff, without incoming links. Is anyone reading that? Does it serve any kind of purpose?
Does anyone have an answer to my question?
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: RODBUSTR on October 06, 2018, 10:34:38 PM
Newb, Want to get proficient, spend as much time as you can offline. Shooting at air drones will definitely help Your deflection shooting. Your jabo skills on gvs . and even Your base takes.
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on October 07, 2018, 07:45:24 AM
If you want to get proficient spend some time with a trainer. :aok
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Ciaphas on October 07, 2018, 11:07:20 AM
practice makes perfect
It's like any other skill in this world. The more you do it the better you will become. spend some time offline, training arena and in the MA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Drano on October 07, 2018, 11:42:10 AM
But make no mistake - - this is hard. The learning curve is steep. It will take quite some time to reach the outskirts of being able to defend yourself let alone racking up kills. Don't be put off by that. Don't be afraid to be killed. Learn from your deaths. That's the process here. No one - - no matter what some may say - - no one arrives here a stone killer.
If you're getting frustrated--and you will - - ask what you're doing wrong. Chances are you'll get some good advice. We all want more players. And we all want better players.
Oh and tune out the knuckleheads. Every game has them!
<S>
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: Ciaphas on October 07, 2018, 12:06:22 PM
But make no mistake - - this is hard. The learning curve is steep. It will take quite some time to reach the outskirts of being able to defend yourself let alone racking up kills. Don't be put off by that. Don't be afraid to be killed. Learn from your deaths. That's the process here. No one - - no matter what some may say - - no one arrives here a stone killer.
If you're getting frustrated--and you will - - ask what you're doing wrong. Chances are you'll get some good advice. We all want more players. And we all want better players.
Oh and tune out the knuckleheads. Every game has them!
<S>
Sent from my Moto Z2 Force using Tapatalk
Well said
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 15, 2018, 07:07:11 AM
Okay, I'm back to continue the discussion of the "bat turn" and will start with reference to the following 17+ year old thread and how long this AH community has been talking about it
I describe it as a shallow nose low best instantaneous corner velocity turn / break turn / hard turn...
Tell me what you think... The reason for the nose low is to keep the instantaneous turn constant without bleeding Energy, with also being 1.5k or further out and hiding your energy state and have lateral separation
Hope this helps
TC
PitchBack = nose above horizon oblique diagonally vertical turn SliceBack = nose below horizon oblique diagonally vertical turn
Hope I've explained that good enough
Edit: and my apologies to the OP for mixing up reversing with reversals, but I did question which one you might be wanting to know about in my first post in this thread
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 15, 2018, 07:21:45 AM
If you want to search for Badboy's write-up on my film of the Barrel Roll Defense manuever and what the 109 pilot was doing wrong by flying "gunsight bfm", is how Badboy described it as....this falls in line with what people don't see when trying to chase a plane down and don't pick up on the manuevering the plane they are after is doing...fixation is a bad SA habit....
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on October 15, 2018, 09:09:03 AM
Question in the old thread was about a no radius turn. Besides the hammerhead/stall turn and tailslide, what other no radius turns are there?
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: TequilaChaser on October 15, 2018, 11:17:42 AM
Toad brought up or mentioned the "180 bat turn" on the 2nd page (2nd page for how I have my board settings set)
That is just 1 of 2 or 3 other threads from that far back when people started using the term... I just used this thread link as a reference point as for how long the people here have been using the term
and with all honesty you can search these boards and will only find this thread only with me even ever posting/typing that term nor have I ever used that term ever with the 1,000's of players that I had a hand in training! (including AirWarrior and then Aces High)(I could possibly be mistaken though, I do have severe memory loss going on)
I don't remember who was the first one to post it to these boards, but I am only relaying how they described the actual manuever...
I never saw the term in the Navy's manual or Shaw's book best I can remember...
TC
Title: Re: Noob
Post by: FLS on October 15, 2018, 01:07:22 PM
That's right. Toad used 180 Bat turn to refer to a question about a no radius turn. This supports my earlier posts in this thread.