Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Puma44 on September 14, 2018, 05:21:16 PM
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How did you work your way into the air tanker gig?
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Be fat and hold your breath.
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Huh?
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Huh?
He must assume you flew fire bombers not warbirds (though some are both).
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Huh?
For some reason I thought you did air tankers.
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Ah..... but I think that would have been some interesting flying. However flying around 80 year old veterans was a lot less stressful than diving through a smoke and flame filled canyon. :)
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Ah..... but I think that would have been some interesting flying. However flying around 80 year old veterans was a lot less stressful than diving through a smoke and flame filled canyon. :)
You flew the B-17 and B-24, right? Who for? How did you get into it?
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You flew the B-17 and B-24, right? Who for? How did you get into it?
I flew with the Collings Foundation. My wife got me the gig. I heard the bombers were going to be in town so we of course went out to go for a ride. My thought was for us each to fly in the B-17, Bobbi said why don't you take a ride in each. Okay!! I did two rides back to back that night and was quite jazzed by what I had seen. A couple old vets that looked like the last thing they wanted to do was fly on the airplane, but as the flight progressed they lost 70 years and were once again the young warriors they had been.
I had recently retired from the Airport Police at Anch Intl Airport and offered to help them with crowd control, wiping airplanes, etc. They were happy to have the help so for the next couple days I did whatever needed to be done around the airplanes. Finally the last day or so they let me "flight engineer" which was more just baby sitting the passengers inflight and getting them seated before landing.
Bobbi and I were impressed enough with what we saw that we decided to do a plane sponsorship on the B-17. We donated $5k which allowed us "life time flight privileges" on the airplane between stops, I got an A-2 jacket with the Nine O Nine artwork and our name is painted on the side of the airplane. The most important thing was we helped to prolong these aircraft operating and helping the vets.
Since I was now a plane sponsor Bobbi, myself and a good friend were able to ride in the B-17 to Fairbanks. Bobbi returned home but I continued to Juneau. The last day of the stop in Juneau, I was heading home from here, the chief pilot Rob asked me if I would be interested in flying the bombers with him. I explained that was the dumbest question I'd ever been asked, of course I'm interested. (Now at this time I did not have a multi rating. I had about 1700 hours in mostly Cessna 182 and 206 airplanes hauling skydivers. I did have a commercial and instrument) Rob told me to get a multi and meet them on the tour route. Okay then! Bobbi and I had already planned to fly our 182 to the Oshkosh show, a wonderful trip, and as soon as we were home I popped down to the LA area for a quickie multi rating then it was out to Hartford, CT. with my sticky wet 12 hour or so multi rating. At first I couldn't fly the pax rides, I didn't have the experience required but I got every hour I could as we flew tour stop to tour stop. Fairly soon the foundation was able to get me as named insured and they got the FEDs to allow me to endanger the lives of paying passengers. Once I was flying rides the time built quickly. The foundation tours 10 months out of the year, normal tour stop is 3 days/2 nights. The tour starts in Florida and goes clockwise around the country.
Flying the bombers was without a doubt the most precious experience of my life. At first it was about flying the airplanes but quickly became about the veterans. I had dinner one night and seated at my table was Robert Morgan (Memphis Belle) and Paul Tibbetts (Enola Gay). After getting typed in the B-24 I did a ride for a B-24 pilot veteran and his family. He had been shot down and had to bail out. When he came out for the ride that morning he was wearing the B-10 jacket he had worn during the bailout (if still had the tear in the back where it snagged going out the bombay). He also had the wooden utensils he had carved to eat with while in the POW camp. Once we got the airplane cleaned up I put him in the seat and let him fly. The look on his family's faces as they watched him fly was very humbling. One of the best moments for sure.
The bombers allowed me to meet so many great people. One was a FW-190 pilot I noticed standing behind the B-17. He was staring at the tail gun position and when I talked to him he told me he had credit for 13 B-17s. With tears in his eyes he said "brave, brave boys".
How'd I get into it? I'm the worlds luckiest man.
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Very cool! You, my friend, and I are in the same club. :salute
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Wow. What a story, Dale. :cheers:
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That was one GREAT READ! WOW, I cant even imagine. JEALOUS, a wee bit. Heck reading about it is fine by me! I am still laughing from your post in another thread about your wifes,uh..accident with the Zip-Lock bag :rofl What an experience...one good and one pretty good in its own rite(but in another way). :x
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One was a FW-190 pilot I noticed standing behind the B-17. He was staring at the tail gun position and when I talked to him he told me he had credit for 13 B-17s. With tears in his eyes he said "brave, brave boys".
Wow, what a story. Thank you for sharing that :salute
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Great Story! :aok
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your wifes,uh..accident with the Zip-Lock bag :rofl
[/quote
We're headed down the Keys. The chief pilot is in the left seat, I'm right side in the B-24. The fight engineers wife gives a shout that she'll be in the space under the flight deck to pee. A few minutes later I feel the airflow change in the cockpit and when I look back the FE is opening the bomb bay. Before I could scream no his wife throws her zip lock of pee into the 180mph wind blast. Now an odd thing about both of the bombers is that with the bomb bay open the airflow comes forward into the cockpit and if you happen to have the cockpit side windows open it can be a forceful flow, I've seen it rip maps out of hands. :) Anyway out goes the pee, and then right back in with a fine mist hitting us in the pilot seats. Now the B-24 is an hydraulic airplane so you are very sensitive if you notice any fluids....Rob, the pilot, did notice and turned toward me with a WTF look on his face. As he scanned farther aft and was able to put the entire picture together.......again priceless.
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:rofl
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Here's a scary story...
We flew with the cover to the radio room hatch open. This allowed pax to stick their head in the slipstream. I'm 5'8" and when I stand at the aft end of the radio room hatch most of my head is out of the airplane. One of the things we always briefed to the pax was there was a 170mph wind and anything they stuck out of the hatch would blow over the tail and be lost.
We're giving a ride and our FE Gary would position himself in the radio room which allowed him to see everything except the nose compartment...it's always wise to keep an eye on folks. :) Anyway we cruising along and hear some unintelligible sounds come over the intercom. By the time I look back through the bomb bay I see Gary holding a child and talking rather pointedly to an adult male. It seems the father wanted to boost his kid up for a better view so standing in the radio room hatch he boosted the kid up onto his shoulders, or at least tried to. This kid was only a few years old and the wind blast blew him right out of Dad's hand and the kid was sliding aft toward the tail. Luckily Gary had been watching and sensed what was about to happen. The noise we heard on the intercom was Gary's instinctive push of the push to talk to yell at the guy. Gary was able to grab the kids ankle and keep him in the airplane.
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Holy Sh#t!
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Yikes!
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:O Great CATCH! Those sort of folk need hats or tattoos----Im an idiot :uhoh I am gonna go play in traffic now :bolt:
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Of the B-24 and B-17, which did you favor and why?
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Of the B-24 and B-17, which did you favor and why?
Yes, because. :)
I was more familiar with the B-17 and it was the airplane I hoped to get typed in. I grew up with the B-17...Twelve O'clock High...both the movie and the TV series that ran for 3 years. The B-17 is much more aesthetically pleasing than the B-24, although the -24 grows on you and once in flight isn't nearly as clumsy looking.
I started on the -17. Although it is a tailwheel airplane it isn't a difficult airplane to handle as long as you mind a few basic rules such as NEVER unlock the tailwheel with a side load on it because you will most likely be unable to stop that turn. Even with that big tail the airplane isn't too bad in a x-wind. I've taken off with 45 knots about 45 from runway heading and had no problem. Landing is a bit more challenge of course. Differential power and good technique goes a long way to keeping things calm. The B-17 is a bit nicer to fly than the -24. The -17 is the airplane you'd take on a sunny afternoon to just bore holes in the sky, the -24 is a bit more work to fly. The B-17 has very heavy aileron and rudder forces along with a very low roll rate. It wasn't uncommon with the B-17 for a show pass to use full aileron rolling into and out of the bank. I watched my pilot wipe the cockpit out with the yoke one afternoon in Titusville when we flew through the worlds biggest flock of seagulls. Mike pushed, pulled and twisted the yoke but the airplane never really moved. It probably made him feel better. I did a summer afternoon ILS down almost to minimums through cummulo bumpies. I was working my butt off trying to impress the boss with my instrument skills and worked up quite a sweat as I wrestled the Fort down the glide slope. Once on the ground and taxiing in my wife, who had been standing behind me during the approach, asked if it was really that hard or if I was just acting out for her!!! The boss got quite a laugh out of that.
The -17 was probably the easier of the two to get a descent landing in, but I think the harder of the two to get that nice squeaker landing. The -24 is nose heavy and it takes a firm pull to get a good flare for landing, many landings being more 3 point flops. The -24 wasn't bad in a x-wind. I landed in Lake Charles with 30+ knots directly across the runway, a good split of power to keep the nose pointed forward and standard x-wind technique worked as expected.
The -24 could be a pain to taxi. Even though it has a nose wheel it is a non-steerable castering nose wheel. The CG is such that the nose wheel is very "light" on the ground. The brake system is an open hydraulic system, using expanding tubes to actuate the brake pucks. What all that means is there is a slight delay between pedal pressure and braking action. This drove me nuts at first. I'd press the brakes, perceive no response and press harder and then I'd get the entire braking response. That would dip the nose down, I'd let off the brakes and the nose would pop up getting the nose wheel very light and with any input at all the nose wheel would dart left or right and away you'd go!! I had to stop more than once just to get things under control. :) Once I learned to just use a slight pressure on the brake pedals and WAIT for the response it became easy peasy. Some of the guys just never figured it out and hated the -24.
The -17 seemed more forgiving of an engine loss at least in the configuration we flew the bombers. When working up for the type ride on the -24 I did a simulated 2 engine out approach to what was a rather firm landing. :) On another practice approach with 1 engine at zero thrust we did a missed approach and it took an entire 7000 runway to get the airplane headed uphill again, some of that probably my poor flying and it was a 90F+ day with high humidity.
I grew to love the -24 and was quite happy I got typed in it. It is a bit more challenging to fly, that challenge made it more fun. The -24 is a hydraulic airplane and a single point failure can take away your gear, flaps and brakes. That happened to us in Burbank but we had just landed when the line cracked literally filling the interior with hydraulic fluid mist. As it worked out we were able to coast to a safe stop.
In the big picture I didn't care which airplane I was flying. Holy cow, I was flying a WWII bomber!!! :)
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In the big picture I didn't care which airplane I was flying. Holy cow, I was flying a WWII bomber!!! :)
Great read! The irony is Columbo you probably have more time flying the 17 and 24 than all bomber pilots did during the war.
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Great write up Colmbo! Thanks for sharing.
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Here's a scary story...
We flew with the cover to the radio room hatch open. This allowed pax to stick their head in the slipstream. I'm 5'8" and when I stand at the aft end of the radio room hatch most of my head is out of the airplane. One of the things we always briefed to the pax was there was a 170mph wind and anything they stuck out of the hatch would blow over the tail and be lost.
We're giving a ride and our FE Gary would position himself in the radio room which allowed him to see everything except the nose compartment...it's always wise to keep an eye on folks. :) Anyway we cruising along and hear some unintelligible sounds come over the intercom. By the time I look back through the bomb bay I see Gary holding a child and talking rather pointedly to an adult male. It seems the father wanted to boost his kid up for a better view so standing in the radio room hatch he boosted the kid up onto his shoulders, or at least tried to. This kid was only a few years old and the wind blast blew him right out of Dad's hand and the kid was sliding aft toward the tail. Luckily Gary had been watching and sensed what was about to happen. The noise we heard on the intercom was Gary's instinctive push of the push to talk to yell at the guy. Gary was able to grab the kids ankle and keep him in the airplane.
I was lucky enough to ride on the Liberty Belle and I actually stuck my head and video camera out the open radio room hatch and recorded during the flight. I started thinking about hitting turbulence and me flying out of the hatch so I moved to another location in the plane. It was quite the experience. I'm trying to find the video but for some reason it isn't appearing on my youtube channel.
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Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6G6y5cmqAc&hd=1
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Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6G6y5cmqAc&hd=1
“This video unavailable” comes up. Tried the tap to retry and no change. It would be great to see your video.
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I'm working on getting a couple videos uploaded myself. One shows a pass on us by an L-39 that perhaps was similar to a 262 making a gun pass.
Today was chemo day so my be a bit slow but I'll get 'em up.
FYI if anyone needs a 14' enclosed, tandem axle Pace cargo trailer, new tires, 2 spare I've got one for sale. This is an awesome time to drive the Alcan, little traffic, seasonal changes in progress....we've done the drive 4 times now...loved it more each time. While you're here you can load up on Alaska trinkets and perhaps recoup some of the cost of the drive. Let me know. :)
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“This video unavailable” comes up. Tried the tap to retry and no change. It would be great to see your video.
Try again. It was set to private. I believe its public now. :cheers:
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👍 Cool!
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I'm going to do this the easy way...instead of uploading each vid to youtube I'm just putting the link up to my Smugmug video page. I might put a little info up on some of the vids...if you have questions blast away...enjoy.
https://www.dalefalk.com/Movies
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This is probably my favorite video. Sailing my dreamboat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P41Hn4gLFP0
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Nice videos Colmbo! Pretty cool drone vantage of your dreamboat.
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:aok One thing I always wanted to try...sailing. OK, what is better FLYING or SAILING...I know hard to compare...but both need skill and precision to do correctly...which gives more???gratification (not really sure what I was going for lol). Sense of accomplishment :uhoh
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:aok One thing I always wanted to try...sailing. OK, what is better FLYING or SAILING...I know hard to compare...but both need skill and precision to do correctly...which gives more???gratification (not really sure what I was going for lol). Sense of accomplishment :uhoh
Sailing is pretty easy to simply get the boat to move. An old saying is anyone can get the boat to move, it takes a sailor to stop one. Sailing is very technical and takes a lot of effort, skill, knowledge and experience to do well. I was a noob even though we had been doing it for 9 years. I had improved a lot but still had a loooong way to go. :)
My wife and I loved having the airplane. It was our escape machine and there is no better place to escape than the wilds of Alaska. Flying here is more relaxed than most of the lower 48 -- less airspace restriction and with the right airplane you can land almost anywhere. Even in our 182 with minimal mods we were able to get into less than 500' gravel strips, river sand bars, etc. We many times would go to our favorite chicken place and grab a bucket then fly to a remote strip (named Bold :) located at the head of a lake and just below a glacier to enjoy our picnic surrounded by stunning views.
After selling the airplane and returning from the bombers we bought our first sailboat. It became our escape machine. The Kenai Fjords National Park and Prince William Sound became our sailing grounds. We'd get out a day or so from Seward, far enough the weekenders would be around, and virtually have the ocean to ourselves.
As to which gives the most gratification I have to say they both do equally.
Here's some sailing images: https://www.dalefalk.com/Boats
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:rock Figured you would say both :lol I always wanted to see Alaska. Had a chance back in 2000. One of my section leads where I worked(United States Gypsum..THE "Sheet Rock" mfr, had a brother that was an Wild life officer in Ak. He was going to take me with him for Annual fishing jaunt. Didnt get to go though, his brother was going to be busy running down a Grizzly that had killed 3 campers. After seeing the pictures he took :uhoh That DEFINITELY should have been top of the list. It was HUGE. Cant remember the exact sizes, but will never forget those pictures. The paw absolutely COVERED his whole torso, with him being RIGHT behind it...not in a My "SMALL" fish looks bigger when I hold it further out in front, lol. HUGE. He shot it 4 times with 7-mag to put it down. It ALSO had 5 slugs from one of the camper's 357 mag. One tough bear, I guess. Eh, I may get over my hesitations to go...sooner than later, I hope! IT WAS HUGE and devastating. :uhoh
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:rock Figured you would say both :lol I always wanted to see Alaska. Had a chance back in 2000. One of my section leads where I worked(United States Gypsum..THE "Sheet Rock" mfr, had a brother that was an Wild life officer in Ak. He was going to take me with him for Annual fishing jaunt. Didnt get to go though, his brother was going to be busy running down a Grizzly that had killed 3 campers. After seeing the pictures he took :uhoh That DEFINITELY should have been top of the list. It was HUGE. Cant remember the exact sizes, but will never forget those pictures. The paw absolutely COVERED his whole torso, with him being RIGHT behind it...not in a My "SMALL" fish looks bigger when I hold it further out in front, lol. HUGE. He shot it 4 times with 7-mag to put it down. It ALSO had 5 slugs from one of the camper's 357 mag. One tough bear, I guess. Eh, I may get over my hesitations to go...sooner than later, I hope! IT WAS HUGE and devastating. :uhoh
Just take someone who runs slower than you. The other favored method requires one bullit. Shoot the other guy in the leg.
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Just take someone who runs slower than you. The other favored method requires one bullit. Shoot the other guy in the leg.
Well, in my case I better bring 2 bullets. I can hardly walk fast due to motor skills being screwed up....so both legs out may give me advantage. Hopefully the other guy would be enough..to satiate the Hunger of said bear :uhoh Good advice, THANKS :rock :rofl
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(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-WGrNjFt/0/a188b424/O/i-WGrNjFt.jpg)
Bobbi and I had landed our 182 at this little strip near the Knik Glacier. It's about 700' long and very rough. Rougher than I wanted to use with my airplane since I didn't have huge tires on it. We decided to walk to another strip I had spotted to see if it was a better choice. I carry a Rem 870 for predator protection and as we're walking along the bear sign starts becoming more often and the Alders start to get thicker. Bobbi asked the "what if" question if we bumped into a bear and I gave the standard no eye contact, talk quiet, move away and DON"T RUN SCREAMING. I continued with "but I know you'll run screaming so run in a circle and I'll shoot him off your tail as you run by". She didn't find that nearly as humorous as I did. :)
FYI that strip is the width of a Cessna main gear, about 8', so you have to be on centerline.
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:rock Figured you would say both :lol
We were just talking and we think the airplane was "more fun". Sailing is a lot of work, the boat is slow and being on a small boat on a big ocean is physically demanding. The airplane zips along and most airports have a cafe. :)
On the other hand you don't get to see things like this from the airplane.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-59s3J3V/0/3c81acec/XL/i-59s3J3V-XL.jpg)
These were large Humpback whales and they sway right down the port side only 20' or so away.
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I’ll shoot him off your tail...
:rofl