Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DmonSlyr on November 04, 2018, 03:23:26 PM
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The russians have taken over AH. Not Fun to constantly fight these planes. Its literally all anyone flys anymore. Getting very tired of it. Very cheap gameplay, constantly running away, cannot hit the tiny damn thing.. 1 20mm that blows you away if it hits you. Im tired of the 3 ping deaths on me while I freaking plug planes with 40 rounds of ammo, only for them to fly away with half a tail... getting real tired of it. there are too many of these in the game and its not healthy.
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Its literally all anyone flys anymore.
No, it isn't.
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No, it isn't.
Got any evidence to back that up? :rofl
Coogan
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Look at the stats, the Yak3 is the #2 fighter with a far better K/D than the P51. I substitute perking the 190D over the La7, but I think all 3 need to be perked, maybe along with the spit16. Too many 190Ds.. Look at that K/D. Constantly run and gang.. Less of these planes would bring much better fights.. I have 12,000 perks. Wont stop people from flying them, but it will slow down the usage. Cant have too many alligators and sharks and in the environment....
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Got any evidence to back that up? :rofl
Absolutely :cool:
But maybe Dmon just doesn't know the meaning of the word 'literally'. :)
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Absolutely :cool:
But maybe Dmon just doesn't know the meaning of the word 'literally'. :)
I was being sarcastic, but not really... :D
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Its literally all anyone flys anymore.
Meh. It's just taken the place of the Spit 16. There will always be lots of people who gravitate to the easier rides.
- oldman
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I agree with violator. Most plane 20ENY or higher are usually hangar queens. I suggest perking a few more latewar planes so folks will fly the hangar queens to make perks. Also I think that 90% of players are missing the real fun by not fighting and just buzzing aroung in fast planes. Try and dogfight you will see how fun it is and the adrenaline rush with a good fight feels good.
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And I think maybe instead of a perk cost maybe just ban them out right!
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The Yak-3 has a fairly high K/D, despite being so popular. K/D alone can be misleading when only a few pilots fly a particular plane but not when it is routinely near the top of the kills list.
The difference is that the P-51D, Spit XVI, 190D and F4U-1A all have considerably lower ENY values. The Yak-3 should be under 10 ENY. And the Ki-84 should be under 15.
This post has been edited by the author, who decided to be nice. For once.
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The russians have taken over AH. Not Fun to constantly fight these planes. Its literally all anyone flys anymore. Getting very tired of it. Very cheap gameplay, constantly running away, cannot hit the tiny damn thing.. 1 20mm that blows you away if it hits you. Im tired of the 3 ping deaths on me while I freaking plug planes with 40 rounds of ammo, only for them to fly away with half a tail... getting real tired of it. there are too many of these in the game and its not healthy.
you forgot the Brewster
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I agree with violator. Most plane 20ENY or higher are usually hangar queens. I suggest perking a few more latewar planes so folks will fly the hangar queens to make perks. Also I think that 90% of players are missing the real fun by not fighting and just buzzing around in fast planes. Try and dogfight you will see how fun it is and the adrenaline rush with a good fight feels good.
:old: ban the corsair's :D
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:old: ban the corsair's :D
Here's some real comparison for you:
Last tour 225
The Yak3 had 3573 kills. - 263 players.
The F4U1A had 1758 kills. - 248 players.
The 190D had 2631. - 296 players.
They all had roughly the same K/D at 1.54.
These planes had a far bigger impact in the MA than any perked plane.
This means the Yak3 has considerably more killing potential than the F4U1A. Now look at the top killers in the f4U1A. Humboldt, Rud3boi and J0ker. Rud3boi even had a 9K/D with the second most kills. That's pretty good. Joker and Humboldt still scored well over the average. The top yak pilots are much less experienced. GP5, Orelle, BTdiver. They come a lot closer to the average K/D but have way more kills besides Orelle who has a 5 k/d with 426 kills. So do you see how it's much easier to be successful in the yak3 because of it's acceleration and climb ability? 1 20mm is still as deadly as 6 50 cals. These planes are incredibly good at base defense and chasing down anything/running away from anything... Which makes them a total pain in the bellybutton when there's 6 of them at a base.
The 190 is a little different but it's a easy to run plane that is generally found at high alts. Generally flown very timidly. Much better than the Use to Be perked TA152. Has 500 cannons and can chase down anything. It's a no fun to fight and another plane people are tired of seeing.
It's all in the #s. It's clear as day to see that these planes are causing an embalance and thus making the fights not as entertaining.
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The Yak3 needs a much lower ENY value. Not sure if it needs perked, but it should be 5ENY. The Yak is deadly with people who have good aim. The plane itself is super easy to fly, but harder to get kills with unless you make your shots.
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Meh. It's just taken the place of the Spit 16. There will always be lots of people who gravitate to the easier rides.
- oldman
This
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Yak3 does deserve a lower ENY based on usage and impact. The La7 already disappears pretty rapidly when ENY kicks in just like Ponies and Spits. Not so worries about them. Dora still needs a lower ENY as well.
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Agreed. Just lower the ENY. No need to perk them.
Its also interesting that there are a lot of 5 ENY planes that are used much less than those monsters.
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This
If you compare the Yak3 to the spit16. The Yak3 has a much higher K/D at 1.54 than the spit16 at a 1.18 both with relatively the same kills. This proves without a doubt that the Yak3 is much harder to kill, same with the 190D. There is no better evidence to suggest that both of these planes ENYs should be reduced to the same as the Spit16 and La7. There are just too many in the MA. It's making for tired gameplay. These planes just force more people to fly timidly and in late war planes just to be able to have a chance, and that slows down fights. It's a phenomenon that I've noticed for a while now. I highly suggest Hitech takes a look into this. There just needs to be more balance in the fighters in the MA.
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Months ago I used to love flying the Yak-3 - small aircraft - basically a small dude with decent hip guns and a big :banana:
Lately, if I fly the 3 I feel like I'm cheating and I need a shower when I land kills with it. So I don't fly it anymore even though its a great ride! :airplane:
It definately needs a small perk or at a minimum a 5 ENY.
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I agree with atlau. They need to lower some of the plane ENY. Also I have been saying this for years that the seafire needs to be at least 25 ENY. For crying out loud the 109g14 is 25 ENY and carries ord also.
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Today I did a test with all the Yak's and La's. Put them in the drone circle then behind them at 200 with the C202 and only the 12.5 on the hood. On average all the Yaks except for the Yak3 resisted 2-3 trigger taps into the 6 of the fuselage then exploded. The Yak3 averaged 3-4 which I suspect the lower end number I was shooting into the cockpit side becasue the Yak3 is such a tiny target and it was easy to float slightly inside of the drone circle path trying to stay in path with a larger plane. I thought it was about the size of the Yak7 which it is not very hardy in this test. The La's lasted up to 3 but, surprisingly had many 2's and rounds like with the none Yak3 part of the family would catch in the wings frequently. No Teflon coating on all of those I guess. The Yak3 was hard to hit in the wings with a lot of misses sliding past like the wings were painted with Teflon.
Then I upped the anti with a G2 to use a 20mm and a button mapped for only the 20mm. The none Yak3 part of the family and La's would take 2-3 and explode and no Teflon coating issues. The Yak3 was all over the place, sometimes 2 would do it up to one test I caused all of the fuel tanks to leak, set it on fire, cut the tail assembly to pieces, then it exploded from about the 6th 20mm to hit it. A number just slipped past the wings and the fuselage like it was coated with that Copper Chef ceramic\metal coating.
Both the Yak7b and Yak3 have K105 engine so their fuselage general cross section is not too different. The Yak7 has a 32ft wingspan while the Yak3 has a 30ft wingspan. Even the La5\7 both have a 32ft wingspan. But, in our game only the Yak3 based on flying against it and the input now from many veteran players has a Teflon coating unless you can aim like Carlos Hathcock. And the few times I've flown it, conga lines firing on my six had to have been the worst shooters in the game or, it is a magic plane for newbies to survive in and we all should just fly the Yak3 from now on.
Based on maybe the 30ft wingspan and 27ft fuselage of the Yak3 is deciding it's slipperiness, then the Yak9u should be much harder to shoot down then the La family since it has a 31ft wingspan and it's fuselage is only 1ft longer than the Yak3's. But then it does take some skill to land kills with the Yak-9u.
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Today I did a test with all the Yak's and La's. Put them in the drone circle then behind them at 200 with the C202 and only the 12.5 on the hood. On average all the Yaks except for the Yak3 resisted 2-3 trigger taps into the 6 of the fuselage then exploded. The Yak3 averaged 3-4 which I suspect the lower end number I was shooting into the cockpit side becasue the Yak3 is such a tiny target and it was easy to float slightly inside of the drone circle path trying to stay in path with a larger plane. I thought it was about the size of the Yak7 which it is not very hardy in this test. The La's lasted up to 3 but, surprisingly had many 2's and rounds like with the none Yak3 part of the family would catch in the wings frequently. No Teflon coating on all of those I guess. The Yak3 was hard to hit in the wings with a lot of misses sliding past like the wings were painted with Teflon.
Then I upped the anti with a G2 to use a 20mm and a button mapped for only the 20mm. The none Yak3 part of the family and La's would take 2-3 and explode and no Teflon coating issues. The Yak3 was all over the place, sometimes 2 would do it up to one test I caused all of the fuel tanks to leak, set it on fire, cut the tail assembly to pieces, then it exploded from about the 6th 20mm to hit it. A number just slipped past the wings and the fuselage like it was coated with that Copper Chef ceramic\metal coating.
Both the Yak7b and Yak3 have K105 engine so their fuselage general cross section is not too different. The Yak7 has a 32ft wingspan while the Yak3 has a 30ft wingspan. Even the La5\7 both have a 32ft wingspan. But, in our game only the Yak3 based on flying against it and the input now from many veteran players has a Teflon coating unless you can aim like Carlos Hathcock. And the few times I've flown it, conga lines firing on my six had to have been the worst shooters in the game or, it is a magic plane for newbies to survive in and we all should just fly the Yak3 from now on.
Based on maybe the 30ft wingspan and 27ft fuselage of the Yak3 is deciding it's slipperiness, then the Yak9u should be much harder to shoot down then the La family since it has a 31ft wingspan and it's fuselage is only 1ft longer than the Yak3's. But then it does take some skill to land kills with the Yak-9u.
So in short, the 20mm cannons are less effective against the Yak 3 only?
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Do you mean you did this offline with the offline drones? Are you sure that the damage model for those things works the same as the one in the combat arenas? You can shoot the wings off and they can be on fire and still circle, unless something has changed.
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Thanks for doing the test Bustr.
I also think it makes it very hard to kill them because of how agile they are, while also blending in with the environment. Offline they don't wobble and flip while accelerating rapidly away from you. On top of that it's a tougher than a P47 and can pretty much track down a P47 in most situations.
The yak9u is a good yak. It was fun for the game. The Yak3 is just a nusance.
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hmmm some time ago somewhere I made a wish post about perking or giving the yak3 a eny value of a pony d or something similar, and you all bit my head off. now you are seeing the light. have you nay sayers ever just sit back and watch the yak3's just zip around shooting other planes down, I have it's not a pretty sight, at least for the folks falling out of the sky. I don't care if they eny the 190-D9 or the LA7, but the yak3 does need a eny value.
+1 for yak3 eny, the cruising speed is like 308-310mph get alt and dive and you're not going to catch it.
the Spit14 used to be perked but they took that away- why do some want the Spit 16 perked the 14 is faster than the 16?
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Ive been toying with the spit 14 and it flies very differently from the spit 16 and it gets less kills than the 8, 9, and 16.
Honestly its more like a k4 but with 10% of its WEP. Very fast at med to high alt and with an excellent climb rate. But not nearly as agile as the other spits and tricky torque effects make it less useful in the low alt MA arena. While the k4 can up to defend a base and then run down a 51 or d9 the 14 cant. Overall id say a k4 is a better MA plane except for its hard to learn tater gun.
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Ive been toying with the spit 14 and it flies very differently from the spit 16 and it gets less kills than the 8, 9, and 16.
Honestly its more like a k4 but with 10% of its WEP. Very fast at med to high alt and with an excellent climb rate. But not nearly as agile as the other spits and tricky torque effects make it less useful in the low alt MA arena. While the k4 can up to defend a base and then run down a 51 or d9 the 14 cant. Overall id say a k4 is a better MA plane except for its hard to learn tater gun.
yeah it flies wonky-esp at lower speeds-flies better the faster you got but like you said its not agile even at lower speeds.
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Yes and its not well suited for high speed dives like the p51, 47 or fws so its trickier to use that climb to your advantage to chase them down.
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Ive been toying with the spit 14 and it flies very differently from the spit 16 and it gets less kills than the 8, 9, and 16.
Honestly its more like a k4 but with 10% of its WEP. Very fast at med to high alt and with an excellent climb rate. But not nearly as agile as the other spits and tricky torque effects make it less useful in the low alt MA arena. While the k4 can up to defend a base and then run down a 51 or d9 the 14 cant. Overall id say a k4 is a better MA plane except for its hard to learn tater gun.
Pretty good analysis but my K4 can never catch a 190D unless I'm right on top of it. The K4 is better than the spit14, but the 2 20s and 50s make it easier for a new player to get kills. I find that you really have to know what you are doing to set up shots in the K4, which is why most don't fly it. I don't fly the spit14 because my wings rip off every time haha. The spit14 just doesn't feel right to me.
The spit16 has a lower K/D than the Yak3 because more newer players fly it and it's easier to shoot at than the yak3. They are both very similar. The Yak3 though is just much harder to shoot at because of the color of the plane, the size of the wings, and durability of the plane. They both get around the same amount of kills but the Yak3 can squirm it's way out of trouble just a tad bit better than the spit16. That's saying something!
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The k4 is definitely harder to setup shots compared to the good ballistics of the spit 14. And its a sturdy plane that you can man handle at higher speeds without losing parts.
In any case d9s are like gnats you gotta chase off but rarely worth your time running down only to waste your ammo as they stir their butts off.
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Empty your wing tanks and make sure you have a smidge burned off the bottom tank before engaging in aerobatics. Sadly our 14 is not burning 150 oct like the real ones did which made it's WEP out power the K4. 150 oct did wonders for all the allied rides from July 44 onward.
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you forgot the Brewster
The Brewster is one of the least sucessful fighters in the MA, no other true fighter is dying so much more than it kills (in absolute numbers).
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Current numbers
(https://i.imgur.com/wvkiw5i.png)
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Just make the Yak3 die when you shoot it and everything will be fine.
The similar sized LA-7 die from a volley of 20mm's in no time, whereas the Yak-3 just go on like nothing happened to it - or like Bustr wrote, it is very inconsistent in it's damage model compared with other fighters.
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Hitech always states unless you change the arena setup settings or object settings, offline damage is the same as online. If anything, offline is where you benchmark in a perfect environment what should be in the MA. Then in the MA add in player ability and vagaries along with delay introduced visa the communication medium. In the offline perfect environment the Yak3 is not consistent to the Yak family and La family when you shoot at it by a margin we all witness in the MA which helps players who fly it to survive.
Anecdotally, I suspect it's superior maneuverability almost equal to the spit16, makes it's guns highly effective because it allows good sticks to get very close which maximizes the damage and the small magazine load. Inside of 200 in 6 chases, 0-20 deg off, many spit drivers miss due to their guns mounted in the wings, while the Yak3 has no such problems up to point blank.
Offline even shooting from 200-400 with a 10-20 deg off, the Yak3 had Teflon skin compared to the general Yak family and La family. Hitting it's silhouette required more controlled aiming while the rest suffered more secondary damage from dispersion. After the rear6 shooting tests, I researched if theYak3 had some kind of enhanced end of the war armor. It dosen't along with no armored wind screen. Offline and online it requires much tighter aiming tolerances in my experience. In that case at least the Yak9u and La7 being the same generation should be that immune or, the Yak3 toned down a little when it comes to catching passing rounds.
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I laugh my bag off at the calls to perk the Yak-3. I have over 4000 points so first off...go ahead I don't care...but anyways back to it just for laughs...
* Ok so we DON'T perk the Spit XVI? is that right?
* P-51D, Dora, Bf 109K-4, P-47M. Geez it's such an uphill fight flying those eh? fighting the good fight with the lesser plane...such courage! pfft.
* N1K2. Oh did I mention the N1K2?
* LA-7 anyone??? "who me? I never fly it"...ya.
* MA Arena K/D. Who cares. What does that have to do with anything? hmm?
* It's Russian. Did I mention it's Russian? oohhh...that's bad isn't it?
whereas the Yak-3 just go on like nothing happened to it
...clearly you don't fly it much.
...and lastly...EVERYBODY ELSES PLANE is ***always*** the one with the fudged up damage model...NEVER the one YOU fly! EVER.
Send it to HTC. If there is a problem have them look at it the rest is sour grapes.
Bye. :rolleyes:
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I laugh my bag off at the calls to perk the Yak-3. I have over 4000 points so first off...go ahead I don't care...but anyways back to it just for laughs...
* Ok so we DON'T perk the Spit XVI? is that right?
* P-51D, Dora, Bf 109K-4, P-47M. Geez it's such an uphill fight flying those eh? fighting the good fight with the lesser plane...such courage! pfft.
* N1K2. Oh did I mention the N1K2?
* LA-7 anyone??? "who me? I never fly it"...ya.
* MA Arena K/D. Who cares. What does that have to do with anything? hmm?
* It's Russian. Did I mention it's Russian? oohhh...that's bad isn't it?
...clearly you don't fly it much.
...and lastly...EVERYBODY ELSES PLANE is ***always*** the one with the fudged up damage model...NEVER the one YOU fly! EVER.
Send it to HTC. If there is a problem have them look at it the rest is sour grapes.
Bye. :rolleyes:
Which of those planes you mentioned are rated at an ENY of 18? Strange that such a modest plane is so popular and successful, isn't it? Just a coincidence, perhaps.
4000 perks, is that supposed to seem like a lot?
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Oh I forgot. ENY. Who cares. Rank crap that nobody cares about. Thanks.
Is it a lot? I dunno maybe to you?
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I laugh my bag off at the calls to perk the Yak-3. I have over 4000 points so first off...go ahead I don't care...but anyways back to it just for laughs...
* Ok so we DON'T perk the Spit XVI? is that right?
* P-51D, Dora, Bf 109K-4, P-47M. Geez it's such an uphill fight flying those eh? fighting the good fight with the lesser plane...such courage! pfft.
* N1K2. Oh did I mention the N1K2?
* LA-7 anyone??? "who me? I never fly it"...ya.
* MA Arena K/D. Who cares. What does that have to do with anything? hmm?
* It's Russian. Did I mention it's Russian? oohhh...that's bad isn't it?
...clearly you don't fly it much.
...and lastly...EVERYBODY ELSES PLANE is ***always*** the one with the fudged up damage model...NEVER the one YOU fly! EVER.
Send it to HTC. If there is a problem have them look at it the rest is sour grapes.
Bye. :rolleyes:
You afraid someone might take one of your crutches away? Or that you might run out of those 4000 perks if they change things?
LOL!!!! just look at the numbers. It is one of the most versatile fighters in the arena, and is flown by a very large percentage of the population. When I want an easy night I up Yaks.
The point these people are trying to make is they would like to see a bit of variety in the planes they fight. HTC can make that happen by tweaking the ENY/perks of the Yak, spit16, La, and 190D9. It could be why some players are leaving, tired of fighting the same 3 or 4 planes.
Oops! I guess we can see why you have an issue with this...... over the last 2 years.....
(http://66.189.10.34:8080/pics/warloc.jpg)
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Bah yak3 :rolleyes:
Sure it is made of wood, but it is way too small, has only 1 engine without WEP, no bomb bay, no navigator, only 1 cannon and even that one is not hispano, and insted of 4 0.303s the Russians fitted it with 13mm MGs. :huh
A flawed design if I ever saw one.
Its damage soaking ability is a myth. On many occasions I managed to hit it with a volley from quad hispanos and destroy its landing gear.
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LOL!!!! just look at the numbers. It is one of the most versatile fighters in the arena,
Maybe I need to recalibrate my understanding of language.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile)
Does it have the guns to take down bombers conveniently? Does it carry ordance? Does it have the legs for long-range escort tasks?
It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.
Maybe a wish: Separate A2A-ENY (used to determine perks earned for a2a-kills, and other-ENY for all the rest (ENY-limiter). Furball-planes would earn less perks for shooting down planes that today get their low ENY from really being versatile. Maybe it's even easy: adjust ENY to pure a2a capability, and change the ENY-limiter to be an OBJ/ENY-limiter.
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Current numbers
Does this contain kills of/by bombers? It would be interesting to see the pure a2a side of things.
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The top yak pilots are much less experienced. GP5, Orelle, BTdiver.
Two of those pilots fly very timid, won't engage one on one, or generally without alt advantage. One of those pilots has an internet connection that seems to get a bit wonky at the most "opportune" of times. You need to take that into account.
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In that case at least the Yak9u and La7 being the same generation should be that immune or, the Yak3 toned down a little when it comes to catching passing rounds.
I get comments all the time on how the Yak 9U or 9T are "bullet proof". Most of the time people are barely registering any pings on me. I suspect being a smaller air frame a lot are getting in closer than they normally do and that is mucking up the convergence effectiveness. There are very few people in AH that shoot effectively at converged range - and those that do tear you up quickly.
One of the significant advantages people fail to take into account in AH are center mounted weapons, imho a centerline 20mm is worth at least 2 x 20mm. The yak 9u has 1 x 20mm and 2 x 12.9mm (50 effectively) in the nose, so for me it is like a ride with wing mount 2x20mm and 4x 50 - just not much ammo. One of the reasons I like the yak is I am not good at the converged shooting.
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Does this contain kills of/by bombers? It would be interesting to see the pure a2a side of things.
Yes, it contains bombers, because those things fly in the air too :D
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It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.
Good point.
- oldman
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Bah yak3 :rolleyes:
Its damage soaking ability is a myth. On many occasions I managed to hit it with a volley from quad hispanos and destroy its landing gear.
You hit the Yak3's propeller and it's rudder, of course the landing gear came off, it's between ! :old:
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Planes that are extremely effective in furballing or fighter combat need to be lower ENY regardless if it has a lot of Ord or not. The majority of players play for air combat and fighting 6 Yak3s, 3 190Ds, and 4 La7s every fight just gets tiring. More of these planes causes more people to get in those planes to compete. The ENY for non perked planes should be veriable to the usuage of that tour. The more yak3s sorties, the lower ENY should go. The more La7 and 190D sorties, the lower ENY should go. This would created a little better balance on the fighter combat side. This is how non perked ENY planes should work. Just like ENY cost increases/decreases as the players #s change.
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It would be interesting to see an ENY to usage chart generated somewhere... would highlight the outliers...
Paging Snailman
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Maybe I need to recalibrate my understanding of language.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile (https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/versatile)
Does it have the guns to take down bombers conveniently? Does it carry ordance? Does it have the legs for long-range escort tasks?
It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.
Maybe a wish: Separate A2A-ENY (used to determine perks earned for a2a-kills, and other-ENY for all the rest (ENY-limiter). Furball-planes would earn less perks for shooting down planes that today get their low ENY from really being versatile. Maybe it's even easy: adjust ENY to pure a2a capability, and change the ENY-limiter to be an OBJ/ENY-limiter.
By versatile I meant as a fighter, seeing that is what the discussion is about. It climbs well, dives great, is fast, has great guns, tho a short clip, but with nose mounted gun easier to aim. It can go against any plane with out having to worry about weaknesses. Plus it seems to be armored like a tank :cool:
We are NOT talking about how many bombs it carries its high alt capabilities nor its bomber hunting skills as NOBODY uses it for any of these things. It is over used in the arenas, and the ENY may be a bit out of wack.
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Yes, it contains bombers, because those things fly in the air too :D
Of course your correct, but I'm sure you know what I mean. Thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-in-the-air vs thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-on-the-ground. The share of bomber kills likely isn't equal for all planes, and probably comparatively low for the yak3. All the discussion evolves around the furball, so pure furball - numbers should be used as refrence.
Can you separate the data that way please?
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Planes that are extremely effective in furballing or fighter combat need to be lower ENY regardless if it has a lot of Ord or not.
This wish is not about the yak3 then, but a general wish to define ENY differently.
The majority of players play for air combat and fighting 6 Yak3s, 3 190Ds, and 4 La7s every fight just gets tiring.
Do you have numbers to prove that majority statement? Or Lusche maybe? (Total time played in category... maybe?).
The typical plane numbers don't match up with Lusches chart. In a typical fight there's 6 ponies, 5 spit16, 4 doras, and each 3 ysk3/la7/niki. And about some 8 other fighters, plus a variety of bombers. The most effective way to increase variety would be to reduce the ENY of the pony (which can't go much lower, and which only is as low as it is because it can carry bombs), or perk it.
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Of course your correct, but I'm sure you know what I mean. Thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-in-the-air vs thing-intended-to-fight-stuff-on-the-ground. The share of bomber kills likely isn't equal for all planes, and probably comparatively low for the yak3. All the discussion evolves around the furball, so pure furball - numbers should be used as refrence.
Can you separate the data that way please?
Yes, I can :)
But allow me a general remark first. For a discussion about ENY and perking stuff like bomber kills should absolutely be included, because dogfighting and bomber killing are not separate. It's a war out there, and for ENY and PERK purposes a lot of things have to be taken into consideration (as you. CCVI, already mention earlier)
Here now the pure fighter vs fighter chart:
(https://i.imgur.com/HO3AetE.png)
This year, the yak-3 is responsible for 5.94% of all fighter vs fighter kills.
(https://i.imgur.com/nvjiCH7.png)
As you can see, even when looking at fighter vs fighter isolated, the Yak-3 does not look any more dominating than other planes before. (If anything, the chart has become slightly more diverse compared to 2008). Seems like the Yak just became the new Nikki.
Oh, I overlooked one:
(Total time played in category... maybe?).
Currently players spend about 40% of their time in fighter mode, 15% in attack, 20% in bomber, 24% in vehicle (gun doesn't appear on the score sheet)
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This wish is not about the yak3 then, but a general wish to define ENY differently.
Do you have numbers to prove that majority statement? Or Lusche maybe? (Total time played in category... maybe?).
The typical plane numbers don't match up with Lusches chart. In a typical fight there's 6 ponies, 5 spit16, 4 doras, and each 3 ysk3/la7/niki. And about some 8 other fighters, plus a variety of bombers. The most effective way to increase variety would be to reduce the ENY of the pony (which can't go much lower, and which only is as low as it is because it can carry bombs), or perk it.
No. It's about making super planes less abundant in the MA. It's tiring. Trust me, I'm not the only one who feels this way. Too many snakes are bad for the environment. That's what you are seeing now with easy mode planes. I was just throwing out an idea that ENY for non perked planes should revolve around usage.
Overall K/D matters. Especially in the top fighters. The higher the K/D, the more effective the plane is at escaping the fights. Note how the Yak3 and 190D both have higher K/D's than the spit16 and P51? Why do you think that is? I know the answer but I'm curious if you do.
I actually think the Pony is fine at the ENY it is because it takes more patience to fly. The spit16, Yak3, and La7 should have a small perk. The 190D should be a 7 eny plane. There are too many of them and it creates lazy easy gameplay full of runners.
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If you perk the Yak-3, Spit XVI and La-7, you have to include the P-51D.
Would rather some of the ENY values get adjusted.
Plane / ENY:
262 / 2
163 / 3
Tempest / 3
F4U-4 / 4
F4U-C / 4
190D-9 / 6
Yak-3 / 7
F4U-1A / 9
Ki-84 / 14
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I think the title should have been adjust eny and not perk it.
I wonder if the chog has such a high kd because its often used as a buff interceptor. As a fighter the 1a is significantly better imho. Chogs usually make for easy kills once you avoid the ho and they are kinda slow compared to most lw monsters.
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I wonder if the chog has such a high kd because its often used as a buff interceptor.
The last matrix I posted is showing stats vs other fighters exclusively and you can see that the F4U-C, while being the 'worst' performing perk plane, is still way ahead of it's unperked competition in terms of K/D
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Do you think this is people will fly a perk plane more timidly than a "free" plane?
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Do you think this is people will fly a perk plane more timidly than a "free" plane?
Yes I do, to some extend. It also depends on the perk cost itself, 20(?) perks for a F4U-C are easily earned, the 200 for a Me 262 not so much.
But after all, the F4U-C IS a very dangerous opponent by all means, after all it was the plane which caused the perk system to be introduced in the first place.
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Are the other perk planes cut off from your chart? (Too far to the right).
I have to wonder though was the chog introduced before the la7? Id still think that if it was not perked the la7 would be a better overall ma fighter killer simply due to its speed and climb advantage.
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Are the other perk planes cut off from your chart? (Too far to the right).
Yes, the F4U-4 would be found at K/D 2.4, the Me 163 at K/D 3.4, the Me 262 at 3.9 and the Tempest at 4.26 (all still K/D vs fighter exclusively)
I have to wonder though was the chog introduced before the la7? Id still think that if it was not perked the la7 would be a better overall ma fighter killer simply due to its speed and climb advantage.
F4U-C was in AH from the beginning, the La-7 was introduced in tour 14. Plane perking started in tour 16.
Don't understimate the efficiency of four Hispanos with so much ammo you can simply hose down your enemies - especially as the average AH pilot is not a good shooter.
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Yes perking the planes would make people fly a tad bit more timidly than they already do. However the plane would not see as much usage. As you can tell from the relatively low # of kills in the F4U1c compared to the Yak3, Spit16, La7, 190D, and P51D. Even a temp isnt used as much. IE, its much less fun/harder to fight 5 Yak3s and La7s tracking you down off the base and ganging you every sortie, than it is fighting a single F4U1C.
Also, the F4U1C is much better than the La7 for a lot of reasons though it's not a plane that you can just hop in off the base and jump into furballs expecting you can escape the fight easily like a Yak3 and La7. The hispanoes are simply amazing and will destory most planes after a quick overshoot which makes it so much more deadlier than the F4U1A for that very reason. In War, the faster you can kill the guy the better, this avoids you from getting picked chasing them, which happens a lot to 50 Cal flyers like the P51 and F4u1A/D. Quick kills with 4 cannons avoids you a lot of hassle and E loss. The Nik is much slower. Which is why it's not perked. Note how the Yak3, 190D, and La7 have cannons too. One ping is a part of your plane damaged where as 50cals don't do much unless a lot hit at the same time and place. Cannons matter!
The D is actually my favorite F4U.
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The problem with the LA-7 is that it have 3 cannons when a wast majority of them had only 2.
Perk the LA7-3 and keep the LA7-2 (2-cannons) version at ENY 5, or give them a ENY of 2.
Flying around with the rare 3 cannons version (without any weight penalty like IRL) when most had 2 cannons is stupid when you do not get any incentive to fly with less firepower at all.
Of course only 1% take the 2-cannon LA-7 version - the extra firepower give you an extra edge, and no penalty (except some extra ammo in the LA7-2).
It's like arming the D9 with an extra nose mounted cannon for no penalty in weight at the same ENY - or the 4-cannon Ki 84.
IF that happened it would be an forum outrage if those were introduced without penalty of some kind.
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HTC can make that happen by tweaking the ENY/perks of the Yak, spit16, La, and 190D9.
Somebody forgot to mention the P-47M and the P-51D? gosh. :)
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Thanks for the graphs Lusche, interesting as always.
Without bomber kills, the Mossie VI drops from 1.35 K/D to a mere 0.9 ! (rounded numbers read from the chart). Shame on you fellow Mosqitophiles! I dont have the gameplay time to skew this result back upwards - someone will need to step up and help me with that.
The 2018 top-10 pie chart actually looks pretty good in terms of the slices and diversity. One outstanding difference between the 2018 and 2008 charts is that the 2018 is a lot more dominated by 1945 planes. The 2008 list inclues things like the F6F, typhoon, and Seafire - by 2018 these have been replaced by (in no particular order) KI84, P47M, and Yak3.
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The 2008 list inclues things like the F6F, typhoon, and Seafire - by 2018 these have been replaced by (in no particular order) KI84, P47M, and Yak3.
Two things mainly caused this:
First, there's a minor but notable decline in CV plane usage overall (indicating that CV battles aren't as numberous/long as they once used to be).
Second, within the CV fighter category itself, the F4U-D has taken a minor and the Seafire a major hit in A2A usage, the F4U-1A has taken their place in that role (F4U-4 also saw an increase).
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Shame. Cv battles rule. Would be fub to see more cv vs cv action that doesnt come down to just a cruiser gun battle.
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Just to clarify, with "CV battles" I actually meant any (air) combat including the use of a carrier group, not just CV vs CV action. Should have used a better term for that.
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The CV battles are down because a very small group of people seem to drive all of them predictably to the nearest base with zero plan of attack where they are immediately sunk before anyone launches said carrier based planes.
The days of seeing them "pop up at HQ" or a remote rear field are gone.
Hate the playa, not the game.
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The problem with the LA-7 is that it have 3 cannons when a wast majority of them had only 2.
True, the great majority of LA7s during WWII only had 2 cannons.
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yeah it flies wonky-esp at lower speeds-flies better the faster you got but like you said its not agile even at lower speeds.
Maybe the fact that it's modelled with the wrong fuel is an issue as well?
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It's a monster in the furball, but versatile it isn't. And ENY considers all aspects. For a pure furball ENY multiple adjustments would be needed.
Why is the TA152 a 10 ENY when it has less affect in the MA then the Yak3?
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Why is the TA152 a 10 ENY when it has less affect in the MA then the Yak3?
Or A 190D for that matter...
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the YAK 3 is not an Uber ride. Scale from 1-10
Firepower: 4
Speed: 7
Maneuverability: 6
Climb: 8
Ords: 2
Where's the Uber here?
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the YAK 3 is not an Uber ride. Scale from 1-10
Firepower: 4
Speed: 7
Maneuverability: 6
Climb: 8
Ords: 2
Where's the Uber here?
You forgot acceleration, very important to the Yak - 9
Strength of plane too - 9
I'd increase maneuverability to 8. It rolls about as good as a 109K, and it's acceleration + manuevers +size allows it to escape almost any plane that is chasing it.. these are very important to it's success.
Note the Yak9U doesn't have this ability as easily.
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the YAK 3 is not an Uber ride. Scale from 1-10
Firepower: 4
Speed: 7
Maneuverability: 6
Climb: 8
Ords: 2
Where's the Uber here?
If I'd put it in a category I'd not like to see in a co alt 1v1 while I'm flying a TA152, it would be the same as LA7, K4, and KI84.
I know people dislike my opinion but the Yak3, brewster and even the TU2 don't seem to be under the same affect of gravity in Aces High
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Uber, acceleration, speed firepower and all the blah blah is irrelevant. Lusche's charts clearly show why the Dora and the Yak3 need an ENY adjustment and historically why HTC usually makes these adjustments. A planes usage and it's impact on the melee arena. Both are heavily used at their current ENY levels, and have comparable or better k/d ratios to planes with lower ENY settings. Time to adjust them to a lower ENY. What is appropriate is up to the powers at HTC, but clearly they are having an impact on gameplay. :aok
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the YAK 3 is not an Uber ride. Scale from 1-10
Firepower: 4
Speed: 7
Maneuverability: 6
Climb: 8
Ords: 2
Where's the Uber here?
But this is solely your opinion and has 0 actual data that makes this true.
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But this is solely your opinion and has 0 actual data that makes this true.
:rofl
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohzdTEcKJqFZm8swg/giphy.gif)
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You forgot acceleration, very important to the Yak - 9
Strength of plane too - 9
I'd increase maneuverability to 8. It rolls about as good as a 109K, and it's acceleration + manuevers +size allows it to escape almost any plane that is chasing it.. these are very important to it's success.
Note the Yak9U doesn't have this ability as easily.
Common Planes that can out turn a YAK 3 = spit, hurry, Ki-84, N1k2, Zeke, Brewster, Ki-43, P-40, F4F, F6F, Ki-61 F4U.
For a fast plane the yak turns well, but not that well compared to the line up of Late war planes. So I think the 6 rating on Maneuverability is fair.
Climb and acceleration are too similar to list them separately. I don't think the yak is an 8 for strength but I don;t have any data myself on that. People have done damage test on planes. We'd have to dig further.
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But this is solely your opinion and has 0 actual data that makes this true.
not true. It is based on plane performance ranking :salute
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Why is the TA152 a 10 ENY when it has less affect in the MA then the Yak3?
How this is being approached may be the confusion. What is the Ta152's ability to destabilize a fight in the vein of a 262 or Tempest or F4u-4 or F4u-C or 163? The Ta152 is a nuisance like a 262 during a busy furball when it suddenly rips through out of nowhere. During that initial surprise some times a few players are blind sided and the 152 WEPs up and away to rinse and repeat. That changes the nature of the furball since everyone on the attacked side is throwing warnings about the 152, and hyping the lost players from that first pass and subsequent passes. There is a real effect on the nature of the activity in that localized area if the 152 driver is not a weenie with no skill. You can't just ignore the 152 and go back to your ACM state from just before when there was not a 152 loose to pick you off. That mental change costs players kills or, gets them killed worrying about the high ENY ride picking them out of nowhere. The average pool of customers who can be affected by this in a furball is larger than our Junky level players in the game. So that is a metric based on destabilization of localized activity and customer satisfaction.
What is the real potential destabilization impact to customer satisfaction by the Yak3? Is it equal to the current perked rides and low ENY rides or, has it become an overused nuisance like the Brewster was before the Yak3 took over the Brewster's role? And years ago the 4 hispano HurriC was used as that kind of nuisance before the Brewster was introduced. Everyone hated the HurriC becasue it could turn and the sissies flying it HO'd on every pass was the gripe against it's over use.
ENY and perking is related to destabilization of player activity in a localized area. How does the Yak3 measure at this point in time to that metric? It is incredibly irritating and seems to magically not get damaged more like shooting at bombers with 30cal. But, how destabilizing is it to localized combat activity? If anything the squirrely little things keep groups tied up wasting their ammo while someone in a perk or low number ENY ride blind sides them repeatedly. Having observed the evolution of their use, in the hands of the worst case scenario vets, they are competitive up to 20k. While they can perform relatively tight maneuvering at high speed becasue of their short wingspan. They are often flown like mini Ta152 to great effect by veteran players from 20k to the deck these days, versus originally as high speed irritating bottom pickers, vulchers and runners. In AH2 the La7 and it's WEP made it the king of that role.
Has everyone forgotten Hitech reduced the La7 top speed on WEP back in AH2 and the forums were sure that was the death of this game. A lot of players were using it back then exactly the same way the Yak3 is used today. With the exception the only thing on the deck that could catch it when it was on WEP was a 262 or a 51 on WEP dropping from 10k. But, it could be killed unlike the Yak3 today.
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Uber, acceleration, speed firepower and all the blah blah is irrelevant. Lusche's charts clearly show why the Dora and the Yak3 need an ENY adjustment and historically why HTC usually makes these adjustments. A planes usage and it's impact on the melee arena. Both are heavily used at their current ENY levels, and have comparable or better k/d ratios to planes with lower ENY settings. Time to adjust them to a lower ENY. What is appropriate is up to the powers at HTC, but clearly they are having an impact on gameplay. :aok
I mostly agree with this, and perhaps the Yak should have a lower ENY :salute
However the objective capability of a plane should effect ENY. There is risk in just basing it on player usage. For ex: the Yak3 with it's low power armament may not be very good against bombers, and is useless against structures and GVs. A P-47 that can carry enough ords to drop a Fighter hangar on one pass, and Kill 8-9 Lancs on 1 ammo load. So air to air kills don't tell the whole story. :salute
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But this is solely your opinion and has 0 actual data that makes this true.
EX: the Yak3 is 68% Percentile Rank in Top speed from Brewester to 262. Hence the YAK is a 7 out of 10. :salute
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I mostly agree with this, and perhaps the Yak should have a lower ENY :salute
However the objective capability of a plane should effect ENY. There is risk in just basing it on player usage. For ex: the Yak3 with it's low power armament may not be very good against bombers, and is useless against structures and GVs. A P-47 that can carry enough ords to drop a Fighter hangar on one pass, and Kill 8-9 Lancs on 1 ammo load. So air to air kills don't tell the whole story. :salute
Do you remember when the F4U1D used to be more than 10 ENY bird? This is a good example of what you and I are talking about. It got used so much that the ENY was lowered. I think it's an 8 now. Truth be told it's a dog in terms of choosing something to run down the high speed fast climb super turn planes everyone focuses on nowadays. But it is a hella destructive bomb truck off the carrier that used to carry a 12-15 ENY. Hitech adjusted it because of usage and impact.
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Do you remember when the F4U1D used to be more than 10 ENY bird? This is a good example of what you and I are talking about. It got used so much that the ENY was lowered. I think it's an 8 now. Truth be told it's a dog in terms of choosing something to run down the high speed fast climb super turn planes everyone focuses on nowadays. But it is a hella destructive bomb truck off the carrier that used to carry a 12-15 ENY. Hitech adjusted it because of usage and impact.
:aok :salute
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Uber, acceleration, speed firepower and all the blah blah is irrelevant. Lusche's charts clearly show why the Dora and the Yak3 need an ENY adjustment and historically why HTC usually makes these adjustments. A planes usage and it's impact on the melee arena. Both are heavily used at their current ENY levels, and have comparable or better k/d ratios to planes with lower ENY settings. Time to adjust them to a lower ENY. What is appropriate is up to the powers at HTC, but clearly they are having an impact on gameplay. :aok
Mostly because the Yak3 don't die when you give it a treatment that would kill any other fighter.
I remind you it's a plane with almost no armor except a 7mm backrest shield and plywood wings.
Other planes with wood wings just fall apart when you hit them.
LA-7 and Yak3 both should be within the same range in taking damage, and they are not.
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Mostly because the Yak3 don't die when you give it a treatment that would kill any other fighter.
I remind you it's a plane with almost no armor except a 7mm backrest shield and plywood wings.
Other planes with wood wings just fall apart when you hit them.
LA-7 and Yak3 both should be within the same range in taking damage, and they are not.
So how does this apply to the usage and effect on arena and it's k/d versus other planes with a lower or higher ENY? We can come up with personal experiences or opinions all day long, but this simply not a quantifiable thing to make a decision on the Yak3 or Dora's ENY change.
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So how does this apply to the usage and effect on arena and it's k/d versus other planes with a lower or higher ENY? We can come up with personal experiences or opinions all day long, but this simply not a quantifiable thing to make a decision on the Yak3 or Dora's ENY change.
It's given it a higher K/D but is used by scrubtastic players...example GP5
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Same scenario with the La7 in AH2 as the dweeb-N-HO ride until Hitech toned down the top speed on WEP. Then the spit16 started becoming the dweeb-N-HO ride while the Brewster was an almost impossible to kill bottom picking wonder plane. Then the Yak3 came along and combined the best irritating attributes of both into this current complaint with the added insult of Magic Copper Chef none stick skin. So now instead of La7 everywhere zipping along at WARP12 HOing everyone, we have Yak3 being incredibly maneuverable at low and medium alts with a Copper Chef skin that nothing sticks to from our ammo menus. Flying one you have a very high probability the hoard chasing you will use up all of it's ammo and you can HO most of them off a sudden reversal and run away leaving half pilot wounded or oiled.
I've watched this from players with the point of view of why up to use up all of my ammo in furballs most of the red guys are flying the Yak3 in. Just to be immune to being hit by guys 200 on their tail holding down on the trigger praying something might connect before they run out of rounds. I've regularly listened to the 56th grouse about how much of their ammo from 8 50cal at 200 it took just to oil one Yak3, then receive a one shot HO pilot wound as it reversed and left the area. This has become a standard complaint both with rook players and knight players over the last two years as my squad spends time in both countries. And some players talk about why up when everyone on the other side seems to be flying Yak3 to avoid being shot down just to get magically pilot wounded.
You want the Yak3 use toned down, make the skin sticker to attracting bullets at 200. It's flown purposely as a get out of being hit by bullets card plane to avoid being towered. It's guns are not what makes it so popular.
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Supply and demand. Let the free market calculate the ENY demand of an aircraft. At its current usage the AH base has determined that the Yak3 is in the top 5 non perked fighters. Hence it deserves a matching ENY. Its a well above average plane in all categories except firepower and sees more useage than the fighter only 5 ENY Spit 14 which also carries no bombs.
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How this is being approached may be the confusion. What is the Ta152's ability to destabilize a fight in the vein of a 262 or Tempest or F4u-4 or F4u-C or 163? The Ta152 is a nuisance like a 262 during a busy furball when it suddenly rips through out of nowhere. During that initial surprise some times a few players are blind sided and the 152 WEPs up and away to rinse and repeat. That changes the nature of the furball since everyone on the attacked side is throwing warnings about the 152, and hyping the lost players from that first pass and subsequent passes. There is a real effect on the nature of the activity in that localized area if the 152 driver is not a weenie with no skill. You can't just ignore the 152 and go back to your ACM state from just before when there was not a 152 loose to pick you off. That mental change costs players kills or, gets them killed worrying about the high ENY ride picking them out of nowhere. The average pool of customers who can be affected by this in a furball is larger than our Junky level players in the game. So that is a metric based on destabilization of localized activity and customer satisfaction.
What is the real potential destabilization impact to customer satisfaction by the Yak3? Is it equal to the current perked rides and low ENY rides or, has it become an overused nuisance like the Brewster was before the Yak3 took over the Brewster's role? And years ago the 4 hispano HurriC was used as that kind of nuisance before the Brewster was introduced. Everyone hated the HurriC becasue it could turn and the sissies flying it HO'd on every pass was the gripe against it's over use.
ENY and perking is related to destabilization of player activity in a localized area. How does the Yak3 measure at this point in time to that metric? It is incredibly irritating and seems to magically not get damaged more like shooting at bombers with 30cal. But, how destabilizing is it to localized combat activity? If anything the squirrely little things keep groups tied up wasting their ammo while someone in a perk or low number ENY ride blind sides them repeatedly. Having observed the evolution of their use, in the hands of the worst case scenario vets, they are competitive up to 20k. While they can perform relatively tight maneuvering at high speed becasue of their short wingspan. They are often flown like mini Ta152 to great effect by veteran players from 20k to the deck these days, versus originally as high speed irritating bottom pickers, vulchers and runners. In AH2 the La7 and it's WEP made it the king of that role.
Has everyone forgotten Hitech reduced the La7 top speed on WEP back in AH2 and the forums were sure that was the death of this game. A lot of players were using it back then exactly the same way the Yak3 is used today. With the exception the only thing on the deck that could catch it when it was on WEP was a 262 or a 51 on WEP dropping from 10k. But, it could be killed unlike the Yak3 today.
There's a reason why more people fly the 190D than the Ta152. The 190D makes a much larger impact and is much easier to fly in regards to flying thru furballs and E regineration and maneuverability.
Most people dont realize that there are offensive and Defensive planes. Rarely is the plane good at both. Defensive fighters don't have much ord but are deadly when it comes to rolling off the base, getting quick alt and speed, and tracking down offensive type planes. Planes that have a high usage in both categories have more advantages than others, and because of these advantages, should be higher on the Eny regardless of their Ord or guns even though 20Mm is very deadly. The Yak3 was designed as a defense plane. Not a bomber Hunter, not to go kill radars. The P47 rolling off the field for defense is very poor. So what I am saying I'd that defense planes like the La7, spit16, and Yak3 are soley used for fighter combat, which is what the majoirty of the players do. If the majority of the players are in furballs in figher combat, than the planes that are suited the best for these situations will have a much larger impact on the game than planes with ords and guns.
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Good point. Some planes are better at fighting downhill and others uphill. The spit16 and yak3 are good at both compared to the p51, f4u and p47 which are great downhill fighters. The la7 is excellent at both (below 10k). The k4 is mostly an uphill fighter as dive performance is hard to use but still acceptable whereas the d9 while usually better downhill has the speed and acceleration to start a fight below escape and end up above with its exceptional climb.
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The problem may not even be "performance" or any other factor other than "Im tired of fighting LAs and Yaks all night". You have to admit that it seems like 9 out of 10 fights are either a LA or a yak. I know if I want easy mode those.... and the spit16 are the planes I jump into.
To help keep the players that have been here for ever find a way to get players into some other plane. I think thats all the OP is looking for.
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The achievement to get xxx number of kills in various planes at least gets people to dabble in them and find new favorites. Maybe we should have a plane of the month challenge :p
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The achievement to get xxx number of kills in various planes at least gets people to dabble in them and find new favorites. Maybe we should have a plane of the month challenge :p
That is a great idea! :aok
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You show up at an enemy field at 10k with guys upping from it as you dive in and you wonder why they are in yak3, spit16, and la7s?
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The standard formula these days is you show up at a field and the defenders up Yak3, spit16, N1K2 and sometimes Brewster\A6m. You attack the field killing the defenders until few try to up and 5 minutes later 20k P51D, Dora, spit16 and Yak3 show up while staggered waves come in behind them following the attackers back to their field. The only time some parity of alt happened was during the field attack phase and if enough Yak3 got off the ground, the Yak3 being coated with Teflon, the attackers use up their rounds and RTB becasue numbers to sustain fighter CAP are not in the game much anymore. And about that time the 20k P51D, Dora and Yak3 are just showing up anyway.
During this last Fall time period Sept-Oct for some reason fights were mostly below 15k and face to face brawls. Towards the end of Oct everyone started going back up to 20k before engaging no matter how close the next field was or the furball out in the bushes. I'm watching more of the remaining hot vets still in the game being lazy and using alt to pick in P51, Dora and Yak3. When I listen to them on VOX, read 200 or country, the excuse is it's the only way to survive, not get hoarded "or picked" and get kills anymore.
The Yak3 is being over used becasue of it's Teflon coating insurance policy. If that were changed and it was easier to shoot down, players would either timidly live above 20k full time again or, go back to the N1K2 and other low alt HO or turn monsters like was the SOP some years back before the Yak3. Since the Yak3 became so popular, I don't get professionally HO'd by cannon birds and ponies like used to be the norm in the MA.
Back in AW the spit9 gave everyone some semblance of equal opportunity in that game to feel good about themselves. It's probably a coincidence the Yak3 is filling that role at a time this game is horribly brutal for new players. I'm not very good in a Yak3 but, I have used it to wiggle my way out of gang bangs a spit9 or 16 would have lost it's wings in from all the rounds fly past them. Probably just a coincidence every time I've pulled that off....... :confused:
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You show up at an enemy field at 10k with guys upping from it as you dive in and you wonder why they are in yak3, spit16, and la7s?
If you fly higher then 10K when there is only 100 players in the MA your just avoiding a fight.
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If you fly higher then 10K when there is only 100 players in the MA your just avoiding a fight.
There are no bombers in AH anymore?
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There are no bombers in AH anymore?
Yes, but they should fly straight and level at 5k so i can have a chance at hitting them!
:cool:
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Most of my fights started at 30k and I always found a fight.
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been playing for almost 4 hours today. we had fun taking 3 bases, I have been killed a lot, then again i killed 1 or 2. I cant say it's been hard to find a fight. there were like 70 players when I started there's a few more now.
semp
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With today's patch I reran the offline C.202 50cal test against the Yak and La families.
All the Yak's were destroyed with 3 taps of the trigger at 200 back into the rear 6 of the Yak tested.
All the La's were destroyed with 2 taps of the trigger at 200 back into the rear 6 of the La tested.
Then I tested just shooting at the Yak3 and both La's filling the 6 drone slots. Then flying the hanger stable of fighters to test different guns.
The Yak3 now catches rounds in the wings. Hitting the wings now more often resulted in snapping off the outer panel with solid 50cal or single hits from 20 and 30mm. Hitting the fuselage with 50cal and 20mm from the rear on a oblique killed the pilot instead of the pilot seeming to be encased in tungsten armor. Hitting the fuselage with the 30mm was a one shot pilot kill. Hitting the rudder with 20mm actually snapped it off versus it being made of titanium. Oiling and holing the fuel tanks happened more frequently from random rounds.The La family just falls apart or the pilot gets dead quick like a no armor plywood cockpit should result.
What does all this mean? Don't know and it could all be anecdotal with my aim improving from several days of offline testing these planes in this way. Though before this patch the Yak3 was the toughest of all the Yak's to shoot down in the drone circle along with it's wings just letting rounds slip past. One anomaly in the drone circle I've seen in the last 5 years, around your 3rd to 5th kill of one type of ride you are testing shooting down. The anomaly is the type of drone you are testing will suddenly absorb much of what you throw at it falling apart piece by piece right down to missing both wings flying along burning after many shooting attempts to kill the pilot from a shallow angle 6 position. Ran into that with the Yak3 at about every 5 but, the wing snapped off nicely just at the landing gear root. With the 20mm I could get the wing root off after snapping off the outer panel. The 30mm would either take the wing or the wing then the pilot would croak in about a second.
The fighters with widely spaced wing guns like the P47 and Typhoon have the most trouble hitting the Yak3 from the 6 inside of their convergence. Using a Yak3 the drone Yak3 were quickly killed with one or two taps from behind. Cannon rounds are not nice to the Yak family or La family now.
This is how it played out offline in the perfect environment of offline. You guys will need to see if shooting the Yak3 online has changed any.
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With today's patch I reran the offline C.202 50cal test against the Yak and La families.
All the Yak's were destroyed with 3 taps of the trigger at 200 back into the rear 6 of the Yak tested.
All the La's were destroyed with 2 taps of the trigger at 200 back into the rear 6 of the La tested.
Then I tested just shooting at the Yak3 and both La's filling the 6 drone slots. Then flying the hanger stable of fighters to test different guns.
The Yak3 now catches rounds in the wings. Hitting the wings now more often resulted in snapping off the outer panel with solid 50cal or single hits from 20 and 30mm. Hitting the fuselage with 50cal and 20mm from the rear on a oblique killed the pilot instead of the pilot seeming to be encased in tungsten armor. Hitting the fuselage with the 30mm was a one shot pilot kill. Hitting the rudder with 20mm actually snapped it off versus it being made of titanium. Oiling and holing the fuel tanks happened more frequently from random rounds.The La family just falls apart or the pilot gets dead quick like a no armor plywood cockpit should result.
What does all this mean? Don't know and it could all be anecdotal with my aim improving from several days of offline testing these planes in this way. Though before this patch the Yak3 was the toughest of all the Yak's to shoot down in the drone circle along with it's wings just letting rounds slip past. One anomaly in the drone circle I've seen in the last 5 years, around your 3rd to 5th kill of one type of ride you are testing shooting down. The anomaly is the type of drone you are testing will suddenly absorb much of what you throw at it falling apart piece by piece right down to missing both wings flying along burning after many shooting attempts to kill the pilot from a shallow angle 6 position. Ran into that with the Yak3 at about every 5 but, the wing snapped off nicely just at the landing gear root. With the 20mm I could get the wing root off after snapping off the outer panel. The 30mm would either take the wing or the wing then the pilot would croak in about a second.
The fighters with widely spaced wing guns like the P47 and Typhoon have the most trouble hitting the Yak3 from the 6 inside of their convergence. Using a Yak3 the drone Yak3 were quickly killed with one or two taps from behind. Cannon rounds are not nice to the Yak family or La family now.
This is how it played out offline in the perfect environment of offline. You guys will need to see if shooting the Yak3 online has changed any.
If the damage model has been tweeked than I will see... Would surely appreciate it!
Just picture how a spit9 is appropriately a 20 eny plane, compared to the 18 eny Yak3 with 2500 more kills and a .5 better K/D.
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I don't care what ya perk, I fly and die in my A8 all the time anyway. Been that way for 10 yrs now lol!!!! :devil :cheers: :salute
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I have not killed any Yak3 after the patch, but a solid 1.5sec in an A8 killed all fighters except the Yak3 and all bombers except the B26 at convergence, in the previous patch if you hit the wings on the bombers.
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There are no bombers in AH anymore?
The conversation is about the Yak3s use which I mean is probably what...90% in furballs...more???
And again...if you are at more then 10K...
Most of my fights started at 30k and I always found a fight.
Don't lie to yourself. Just because you are at 30K doesn't mean the fight was at 30K.
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All this yapping. I personally believe the one that truly needs to have eny changed on is the C47. It is an overused monster in the game. No other plane can do what it does.
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All this yapping.
Agreed. First, people want others to get out of halftracks, 88s, manned guns, and into aeroplanes. Those people get into Yak3s. Then they want them to get out of Yak3s and into more difficult planes.
It's like being married....
- oldman
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Agreed. First, people want others to get out of halftracks, 88s, manned guns, and into aeroplanes. Those people get into Yak3s. Then they want them to get out of Yak3s and into more difficult planes.
It's like being married....
- oldman
Now imagine your wife in a Yak-3. :uhoh
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Now imagine your wife in a Yak-3. :uhoh
Or your ex-wife. :D
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not true. It is based on plane performance ranking :salute
where is the link for all the airplanes performance ranking?
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Funny thing, last night I lurked in the MA to try and observe Yak3 use, combat, VOX and text comments about the Yak3. Everyone was in everything but Yak3 other than a single one I saw actually fighting and he was killed shortly after that. I saw a few taking part in a bish all hands country raid on a field but, all they did was de-ack while late war monsters swamped the local defense fighters. I think Oceania with all the water ways causes players to think range and speed and alt even though I made most of the water ways 19 miles wide.
Because I spent the time focusing on rides it was obvious most players are concerned with cannons(fire power) and speed. Speed is probably what makes the P51D such a good general package and is used so much. After that I saw Dora, spit16, N1K2, G14, F4u-4, Typhoon, P47 and a few FM2\Wildcat. Ki84 were as rare as Yak3 last night. As for La it looked like the 56th traded in their Jugs for La's.
So it may take a different map to really observe the Yak3 in light of my recent testing.
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The conversation is about the Yak3s use which I mean is probably what...90% in furballs...more???
And again...if you are at more then 10K...
Don't lie to yourself. Just because you are at 30K doesn't mean the fight was at 30K.
They start at 30k but you need to be showing a bomber icon to get attention.
It's fun watching a p47m dive away 30,000 feet to HQ or City and circle the ack towers as they absorb 20mms from a tu2.
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where is the link for all the airplanes performance ranking?
Plane Performance link can be found on the home page.
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Agreed. First, people want others to get out of halftracks, 88s, manned guns, and into aeroplanes. Those people get into Yak3s. Then they want them to get out of Yak3s and into more difficult planes.
It's like being married....
- oldman
Noobs will have a much worse time fighting groups of La7s, yak3s and spit16s, than they would if those planes were limited by a small ENY perk and they themselves couldn't fly them. I don't see why a small perk cost is even that big of a deal.
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Noobs will have a much worse time fighting groups of La7s, yak3s and spit16s, than they would if those planes were limited by a small ENY perk and they themselves couldn't fly them. I don't see why a small perk cost is even that big of a deal.
This confuses me. If a small perk cost is not that big of a deal...then why impose a small perk cost...? And shouldn't it be easier to fight a group of Yak3s if you're in a Yak3 yourself?
- oldman the bewildered
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Agreed. First, people want others to get out of halftracks, 88s, manned guns, and into aeroplanes. Those people get into Yak3s. Then they want them to get out of Yak3s and into more difficult planes.
It's like being married....
- oldman
Since you didn't read you kind of argued FOR the point you are trying to belittle....since the yak3 is popular and easy...it should have a lower ENY.(Nobody said they wanted them out of Yak3s, just not as rewarded for flying a trainer wheel plane.)
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i just refused to fight any yak3. damn thing takes more damage than buffs. if it gets behind me I just bail.
semp
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This confuses me. If a small perk cost is not that big of a deal...then why impose a small perk cost...? And shouldn't it be easier to fight a group of Yak3s if you're in a Yak3 yourself?
- oldman the bewildered
My point was that a small perk cost would greatly reduce the usage which would be more beneficial to noobs whether they fly it or not. In other words, fighting too many of these planes at once is harder for noobs even if they get to fly that same plane. Less of these planes overall would be better for the game, even if a noob couldn't fly one. That's similar to how perk planes work now.
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I don't think the Yak3 deserves to be perked. Just adjust the ENY.
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I don't think the Yak3 deserves to be perked. Just adjust the ENY.
This.
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My point was that a small perk cost would greatly reduce the usage which would be more beneficial to noobs whether they fly it or not. In other words, fighting too many of these planes at once is harder for noobs even if they get to fly that same plane. Less of these planes overall would be better for the game, even if a noob couldn't fly one. That's similar to how perk planes work now.
but if the Yak3 drivers are so deadly, they would have the perks to continue to fly this aircraft so what has been proposed with perk points would effectively be nulled.
sure it would keep new sticks out of them for a ver small time but the experienced Yak pilots would still have access to them.
as far as ENY is concerned, meh, we pay to play with the toys in this game. We don't pay to be limited in our choices.
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but if the Yak3 drivers are so deadly, they would have the perks to continue to fly this aircraft so what has been proposed with perk points would effectively be nulled.
sure it would keep new sticks out of them for a ver small time but the experienced Yak pilots would still have access to them.
as far as ENY is concerned, meh, we pay to play with the toys in this game. We don't pay to be limited in our choices.
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I disagree. There is something about perked planes that greatly reduced it's usage. The F4U1C or F4U4 are great examples of that. These players would fly the Yak9U instead, which would balance out the fights better. The Yak3, spit16, and La7 usage would greatly be reduced. I believe that a small perk cost would take them from 3500 kills a tour, to about maybe 1500. I say they should be perked because even at 5 eny for an La7 or spit16, it still is a top killer. I have 12,000 perks and could fly temps and 262s for the next year. But I don't. A lot of pilots don't like to be known as the guy who only flies perk planes. Less of these planes overall in the environment would be better off for noobs. iMO the 190D should take the old perk cost of the Ta152. It's just too adundant in the game and makes fights slow and boring. IMO there should be less late war monsters in the game and more mid - late war regular planes. It would just make the fights better overall.
IMO all late war super planes should be perked and people should have to work their way in the game to earn being able to fly one. In almost every other game a new player has to work to unlock better equipment as they progress in the game. This keeps them itching to play the game to be able to score a late war super plane. For some reason in AH it's "unfair for noobs" if they cannot fly a late war monster, but another longer term player whose earned it gets to. I don't see anyone else in other game complaining about that.
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but if the Yak3 drivers are so deadly, they would have the perks to continue to fly this aircraft so what has been proposed with perk points would effectively be nulled.
sure it would keep new sticks out of them for a ver small time but the experienced Yak pilots would still have access to them.
as far as ENY is concerned, meh, we pay to play with the toys in this game. We don't pay to be limited in our choices.
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Cool. In that case, I demand to be allowed to fly a 262 every sortie from now on.
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Cool. In that case, I demand to be allowed to fly a 262 every sortie from now on.
ENY vastly is different than Perk points.
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ENY vastly is different than Perk points.
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ENY is worse from my perspective - it is a hard lock, while a perked ride I can always fly assuming I have the perks to deposit.
Note DEPOSIT not pay. All perked planes are free if you land them.
When I want to take a 262 I dont mind depositing and losing 1000 perks for it.
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This confuses me. If a small perk cost is not that big of a deal...then why impose a small perk cost...? And shouldn't it be easier to fight a group of Yak3s if you're in a Yak3 yourself?
- oldman the bewildered
It is a combination of perk tag and ENY. A high perked ride with low ENY will be very difficult to sustain, because you potentially lose a lot of perks and earn little. This forces players to make some runs in high ENY planes in order to continue flying low ENY perked planes. Must be an awful experience to take an LA5 occasionally instead of the LA7, or Yak9U instead of Yak3.
... that, or they can fly their lowly perked rides like wusses.
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Can we perk the eny?
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ENY is worse from my perspective - it is a hard lock, while a perked ride I can always fly assuming I have the perks to deposit.
Note DEPOSIT not pay. All perked planes are free if you land them.
When I want to take a 262 I dont mind depositing and losing 1000 perks for it.
I agree, all rides should be available 24/7.
If that means adjusting, adding or removing perk costs then so be it.
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I agree, all rides should be available 24/7.
If that means adjusting, adding or removing perk costs then so be it.
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If the perks required are removed from your perk cache at takeoff, I would agree. Retaining perks is cause for even more timid play.
Same goes for added perk point bonuses upon successful landings.
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If the perks required are removed from your perk cache at takeoff, I would agree. Retaining perks is cause for even more timid play.
Same goes for added perk point bonuses upon successful landings.
Keep the perk ride "rental" system as it is, just adjust (add/remove) perk value requirements on rides.
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I definitely think ENY for many planes needs to be looked at. The #s and stats don't lie. I know HTC doesn't their play their game very often, but it's easy to see how so many late war top performance planes are really hurting the fights rather than make them better. IMO, more midwar or harder late war fighters in the MA would make for much better fights and action. Too many BnZ planes like the P51 and 190D really make for slow gameplay. I just ask HTC to consider it.