Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Haskell on December 30, 2019, 11:42:14 AM
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Hello Aces High Community,
I come from the ARMA and Falcon BMS communities and have helped with some dynamic ai mods for ARMA and am interested in creating some sort of real time mission generation system for this game.
I asked around on the mission editor forum (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398755.0.html) and was surprised to find out that this game does not have an ingame cmd line or anyway to modify ai behavior in real time.
The scale and massively multiplayer aspect of this game really lends it self to massive missions with lots of moving pieces.
Would it be possible to allow scripting support for this game?
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Scripting is already in the game, however I do not know if/how it would work with missions as I've never built one.
:cheers:
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Hello Aces High Community,
I come from the ARMA and Falcon BMS communities and have helped with some dynamic ai mods for ARMA and am interested in creating some sort of real time mission generation system for this game.
Please define what you envision a real time mission generation system is?
Dale
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Please define what you envision a real time mission generation system is?
Dale
I am a big fan of the Falcon 4 dynamic campaign, which has a strategic level that directs the parameters (# of planes, targets, potential threats, escorts) and generates a mission using them.
For instance in Falcon 4, if you have a strike mission with a specific target, you'll need to have a SEAD mission to take care of the air defenses, an escort mission to get any interceptor's attention, a tanker mission if there isn't one already on station to fill all of you on your way there and back, etc.
So the mission generator has to schedule all of the planes in such a way that they are in the right spots at the right times in order to carry out their tasks.
A WW2 example might have a strategic bombardment mission, with 4 stages of escorts with planes coming from 15 different airfields. Where the bombers have to meet up, get into their formation, get escorted by the different waves of escorts, drop their munitions, run their return mission, and land at their respective bases.
I guess my language wasn't too accurate, a better way to describe it would be a dynamic mission generator but what's really needed is the tooling required to make on.
One of the first things I would like to try and make is an Air Traffic Control lol
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your thinking this game has a lot of players that will work together and do a lot of missions.
We Don't
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your thinking this game has a lot of players that will work together and do a lot of missions.
We Don't
That's the thing, all of this is coordinated and run by the AI.
In Falcon 4, their is a high level strategic AI that directs the middle level mission generator what specific targets to hit( the WHAT), and the mission generator figures out the (the WHEN and HOW).
https://youtu.be/756E6inBO6g?t=85
that video shows off its UI, and how the player can interact with it.
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your thinking this game has a lot of players that will work together and do a lot of missions.
We Don't
Are you forgetting scenarios and FSO?
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For those that don't know, what this wish fundamentally wants is the ability to control ai real time with a coding interface.
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For those that don't know, what this wish fundamentally wants is the ability to control ai real time with a coding interface.
Fine for private arenas.
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It would be perfect, aces high 3 has a very cool feature in that the game is massive and persistent.
arma 3 has a similar scripting engine (sqf is a horrible language) that allows you to completely control how the game/ai behaves,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmiTYkFySqE
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There have been a number of times that such missions were planned and executed by the players themselves, which is part of the idea of the open sandbox system. I always enjoyed those missions. One of the benefits of the open sandbox system is to enable the players themselves to plan and execute such missions.
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There have been a number of times that such missions were planned and executed by the players themselves, which is part of the idea of the open sandbox system. I always enjoyed those missions. One of the benefits of the open sandbox system is to enable the players themselves to plan and execute such missions.
This. Hitech has given us a mission planner. It's a blast when the arena has enough players.
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Or have AI missions as part of each map with the ability to join or intercept them.
Host messages would announce them to the country launching and the dar bar would alert the other countries.
AI is needed to supplement the low number of players
<S>
Eagler
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Or have AI missions as part of each map with the ability to join or intercept them.
Host messages would announce them to the country launching and the dar bar would alert the other countries.
AI is needed to supplement the low number of players
<S>
Eagler
The problem then would be players would constantly be having to defend against AI missions instead of fighting against other players..... which really makes this game what it is.
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Maybe or I think the AI raid would have live pilots who join them
AI could spawn as defense also helping low live pilot numbers
I think a small injection of AI would help game play
Most servers of the other ww2 flight sims incorporate AI as thier numbers are low also.
<S>
Eagler
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That might create a group of AI fighting and all the real folks doing what they do now... LOL
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Yeah, the argument has always been that paying customers want to fight other customers, and not be killed by AI.
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Yeah, the argument has always been that paying customers want to fight other customers, and not be killed by AI.
Yet we have AI ack at fields.
Yet we have AI ack on ships.
Yet we have AI ack at strats.
Yet we have AI ack on trains...
We have AI bomber drones.
Etc.
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Yet we have AI ack at fields.
Yet we have AI ack on ships.
Yet we have AI ack at strats.
Yet we have AI ack on trains...
We have AI bomber drones.
Etc.
None of them go off attacking anything on their own......
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None of them go off attacking anything on their own......
Bomber drones don't drop ord on targets?
Ship ack doesn't move along a defined path and attack anything that comes within range?
AI already exists in AH. It's not a question of "if" but only of what degree what roles Hitech decided to further employ it.
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Yet we have AI ack at fields.
Yet we have AI ack on ships.
Yet we have AI ack at strats.
Yet we have AI ack on trains...
We have AI bomber drones.
Etc.
And players have been complaining for years about getting attacked by ack.
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Bomber drones don't drop ord on targets?
Ship ack doesn't move along a defined path and attack anything that comes within range?
AI already exists in AH. It's not a question of "if" but only of what degree what roles Hitech decided to further employ it.
None of those ATTACK ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN.
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And players have been complaining for years about getting attacked by ack.
And they will continue to complain if you do or don't add more.
I'm sure there were people throwing a fit about the idea bomber drones. "We don't play to shoot down drones by golly! It'll be the end of aces High! You're trying to change something! Ahhhhhg!"
They were added, the world didn't end.
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And they will continue to complain if you do or don't add more.
I'm sure there were people throwing a fit about the idea bomber drones. "We don't play to shoot down drones by golly! It'll be the end of aces High! You're trying to change something! Ahhhhhg!"
They were added, the world didn't end.
People will complain... no matter what is done or not done...... human nature.
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None of those ATTACK ANYTHING ON THEIR OWN.
Imagination may not be your strong suit, but just because Fighter Ace didn't have something 20 years ago, doesn't mean it can't be added to Aces High someday in the future.
There is no requirement that things stay exactly like they've always been. I know change frightens you, but try and be brave.
Software is meant to change and evolve over time. That's why we keep it in software instead of soldering it into hardware.
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And they will continue to complain if you do or don't add more.
I'm sure there were people throwing a fit about the idea bomber drones. "We don't play to shoot down drones by golly! It'll be the end of aces High! You're trying to change something! Ahhhhhg!"
They were added, the world didn't end.
if you want to kill ai hitech has a free game for it. you can shoot them down all day long.
now we all agree it's up to hitech to add it or not. if he thinks it's a good idea for the game, no matter how strongly you object, he will add it or at least test it. as an example it's the kill messages, lots of people were against it. some didnt care, some others liked it. but he gave his final answer, it's here to stay, until he changes his mind.
semp
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Imagination may not be your strong suit, but just because Fighter Ace didn't have something 20 years ago, doesn't mean it can't be added to Aces High someday in the future.
There is no requirement that things stay exactly like they've always been. I know change frightens you, but try and be brave.
Software is meant to change and evolve over time. That's why we keep it in software instead of soldering it into hardware.
You may be right. I have imagined for some time that you were a pretty smart fella. I have enjoyed the WWI arena. :devil :aok
:salute
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if you want to kill ai hitech has a free game for it. you can shoot them down all day long.
Don't you remember Hitech stated that among other things the other sim can be a test-bed to develop features that can fed back in to Aces High?
We already had a bunch of AI features that were developed for WO:P that has made it's way back into Aces High already such as the capability variables.
I wouldn't be surprised of more cross pollination in the future.
But you are right, Hitech will make the call and I'm sure he realized there will be a pack of nay-saying ninnies screaming the sky will fall if any changes are made. Nay-Saying ninnies are as inevitable as death and taxes. :rofl
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You may be right.
There are many ways AI could be further leveraged in AH. Some more aggressive than others. It is also possible to tie it to player numbers.
Some past ideas like defensive patrols operating a certain distance from a base is really just an extension of the same justification and concept as automated field ack.
Other ideas such as a perk purchased bomber mission against a strat could be tweaked to be no more over-used than you see 262'a now. They might form a good nucleus for other human bombers to form on and human fighters to join on and escort and enemy human fighters to intercept.
Both of those possibilities are either fairly constrained or player initiated and directed. The careful use of AI augmentation doesn't necessarily have to mean completely free roaming AI across the map.
But yeah, those are all thing Hitech will decide.
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There are many ways AI could be further leveraged in AH. Some more aggressive than others. It is also possible to tie it to player numbers.
Some past ideas like defensive patrols operating a certain distance from a base is really just an extension of the same justification and concept as automated field ack.
Other ideas such as a perk purchased bomber mission against a strat could be tweaked to be no more over-used than you see 262'a now. They might form a good nucleus for other human bombers to form on and human fighters to join on and escort and enemy human fighters to intercept.
Both of those possibilities are either fairly constrained or player initiated and directed. The careful use of AI augmentation doesn't necessarily have to mean completely free roaming AI across the map.
But yeah, those are all thing Hitech will decide.
There is always a possibility. It would take very careful testing. Small steps.....
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Nay-Saying ninnies are as inevitable as death and taxes. :rofl
just be aware, you are one of them too :bolt:
semp
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There is always a possibility. It would take very careful testing. Small steps.....
Hitech has always struck me as fairly methodical.
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And they will continue to complain if you do or don't add more.
I'm sure there were people throwing a fit about the idea bomber drones. "We don't play to shoot down drones by golly! It'll be the end of aces High! You're trying to change something! Ahhhhhg!"
They were added, the world didn't end.
I didnt mention to drones because technically they are NOT AI. They are controlled by the player flying the lead buff. Hitech gave the community a choice in the old days, either we could have multible gunners on a single buff, OR we could have 3 plane formations controlled by a player. I guess most people spoke up for formations because that is what we have.
Were there complaints, maybe, I dont remember, but the complaints about them died off because you dont hear about players complaining about formations shooting them down. The AI acks however are still complained about even after 20 years. Those that play AH dont want to fight AI. If they did "Online: Pacific" would be running like gang busters.
I know you put a lot of work into the mission play, but how often are those missions run these days?
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Hitech has always struck me as fairly methodical.
In a business that deals with people, one must be methodical.
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I know you put a lot of work into the mission play, but how often are those missions run these days?
Last time I guesstimated a count a month or so ago the 4x4 missions I made had about 2400 sorties flown cumulative since release in Jan. And I haven't flown them (I have some other local missions I've been working on), so somebody is flying them.
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Greebo on the reasonable use of AI augmentation:
Because its better than fighting no one at all. For my time zone there are not enough players in the MA to make it worth me logging in except late at night when I am too tired to play, so I just don't bother any more. I am sure there are others in the same boat as me, but if we had something to do in the MA more engaging than bombing static targets it would encourage us to log in. With more players showing on the MA roster it encourages even more to log in and it becomes a benign circle.
I'd much rather have some AI planes protecting bases than the fun killing 88s we have now. This is something that would start dogfights rather than end them as they would make it a less of a suicide mission to up from a base with enemy fighters around.
To make things fairer a side with a higher than average numbers of human players could get fewer and/or worse replacement AI pilots and planes or longer respawn times until numbers evened out. I'd also like to see AI bomber raids heading to strats every now and then. Just seeds to get human players logging in to the MA during off peak times.
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There is always a possibility. It would take very careful testing. Small steps.....
This "wish" is more about the infrastructure to actually interface with the game and develop the AI.
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This "wish" is more about the infrastructure to actually interface with the game and develop the AI.
Sorry for the hijack.
I sorta get what you are saying. I've seen systems that allowed user scripting in Python or some proprietary scripting language to build custom AI behaviors.
I guess I would see that more as something that would be written into a mission at the mission design time in the Mission Editor to give AI decision tree behavior based on runtime variables instead of statically defined and compiled behavior based only on segment time duration.
Are you talking about trying to write behavior code realtime during gameplay? Have you tried making some AI missions with the editor?
Currently, in the MA the AI is limited to things like auto ack and bomber drones and such. So there would be limited applications. To some extent you could call a ranking player defining a task force path as a form of very high level AI scripting.
Perhaps you could give a concrete use-case example of what you would like to be able to do?
:salute