Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hotstuff on March 14, 2020, 12:15:12 PM
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Wirbs are overpowered. They should be perked. Looking at wikipedia up to 105 were built during the war, yet 20 wirbs can spawn to attack/defend any field within an hour. Some people are just too good at them, magazines are not modeled.
Ostwinds are already nasty enough, but can we get some control on the wirbs?
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ill see your magazines, and raise you barrel changes. im not sure what barrel life was, but videos show them being hot swapped in use pretty frequently.
Each of the four mounted guns had a separate magazine that held only 20 rounds. This meant that a maximum combined rate of fire of 1,400 rounds per minute was reduced practically to 800 rounds per minute for combat use – which would still require that an emptied magazine be replaced every six seconds, on each of the four guns. This is the attainable rate of fire; the sustained rate of fire is significantly lower due to rapid heat buildup and barrel erosion. Automatic weapons are typically limited to roughly 100 rounds per minute per barrel to give time for the heat to dissipate, although this can be exceeded for short periods if the firing window is brief.
because simple math is fun,
100 rpm to keep barrel from melting.
20 rounds each
100 rounds per minute / 60 (seconds) = 1.67 rounds per second per gun.
20 rounds / 1.67 rounds per second = 11.97 seconds of fire per gun. before reload.
in reality it appears to me they could keep the guns topped off for a solid stream of fire.
of course this required a dedicated loading person for each gun. (x4)
i dont know what the fire rate is for the ah3 wirb, but i bet it couldn't make it through its whole ammo supply at the current rate without barrel changes even if the loaders could keep it topped off.
of course we have a lot of theoretically perfect equipment, so this may be by design.
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Good points. It is annoying that these things can be moving targets dumping hundreds of 20mm rounds at you when you try to strafe them.
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I have 373 kills of wirbles to 317 deaths. A 1.17 K/D, Im ok with that
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I have 373 kills of wirbles to 317 deaths. A 1.17 K/D, Im ok with that
And how many of those kills and deaths are of/from planes?
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I have 373 kills of wirbles to 317 deaths. A 1.17 K/D, Im ok with that
Is that K/D from playing it safe or frantically defending a base when you don't even have air cover?
K/D isn't everything, some of us want to have good fights. If I wanted a high K/D I would just fly a P-51 or Dora and just boom and zoom.
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And how many of those kills and deaths are of/from planes?
I didnt look, but Im sure its like 95% from planes as Im rarely in a vehicle.
Is that K/D from playing it safe or frantically defending a base when you don't even have air cover?
K/D isn't everything, some of us want to have good fights. If I wanted a high K/D I would just fly a P-51 or Dora and just boom and zoom.
What is "playing it safe"? Im playing a game, if I die I get a new plane and try again. If there is nothing else to shoot at I ping the crap out of any vehicle I see. Wirbles as not that tough to kill. Even with 50's you can kill their gun on a single pass. If you have a bomb they are very easy to kill.
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I'd settle for wirb icons that are same for friendly and enemy.
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I didnt look, but Im sure its like 95% from planes as Im rarely in a vehicle.
What is "playing it safe"? Im playing a game, if I die I get a new plane and try again. If there is nothing else to shoot at I ping the crap out of any vehicle I see. Wirbles as not that tough to kill. Even with 50's you can kill their gun on a single pass. If you have a bomb they are very easy to kill.
A single wirb is doable, but a network of them, at no real cost, is the game breaker. I'm not saying they should be taken out, it's that once there are 3 of them, doing fighter-bomber missions is impossible unless you are laggy or a tryhard, or managed to actually have enough altitude and a bomb to come in to take them out.
Then in 5 seconds they will up again, at no cost.
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Wirbs and Osties are like free cup cakes for M-8 drivers. They are so busy looking up they never notice the harmless little M-8’s passing through performing reconnaissance missions.
:banana: :banana:
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Good points. It is annoying that these things can be moving targets dumping hundreds of 20mm rounds at you when you try to strafe them.
i have damaged 100s of werbies secret is wait till they shoot at somebody else.
semp
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Problem is some whirbs can snipe you at 2k out when you are making a gun run and WOOP there goes half your wing.
They should have a burst limit on them - similar to like if you play call of duty and use the M16 and it has a 3 round burst mode.
So maybe then can fire 20-40 rounds, but have to wait 1-2 seconds for a period to reload, then fire again. Not sure how Aces High would model this.
If this cant be done, then perhaps make the whirbs perked at like 2-5 perks.
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There are obviously ways to kill wirbs. I kill wirbs all the time. It is possible. I just want the dynamic to be different.
I am not asking for wirbs to be helpless, I'm just asking for some game mechanic changes to be made so that things get played differently.
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Good points. It is annoying that these things can be moving targets dumping hundreds of 20mm rounds at you when you try to strafe them.
How dare Wirb gunners try to kill me while i'm trying to kill them ? :rofl
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The WirbelGawd has tips for you. With around 11,000 career kills in the Wirbelwind I think I can dispense some knowledge. I have also killed a lot of Wirbels with bombs and tanks. All those kills came with a lot of deaths and some hellacious fun misadventures.
-Always assume a Wirble is present if there is GV dar. You are lucky these days, it was not always this easy.
-Wait until a Wirbel is engaged with someone else to drop a bomb or shoot out their gun. It takes precious seconds to get that turret swung around. Work in tandem with someone if possible.
-Roll a tank out and kill the Wirbel.
-Check field guns to see if you can smoke turret or kill the Wirbel if they are close to a friendly field.
-A smoking Wirbel is a useless Wirbel. Don't kill it unless it is protecting a map room. Let it rot.
-The Wirbels that sit on the concrete are not the dangerous ones. You can see them easily and target them just as easily. It's the Wirbels that roll out from the field aggressively and hunt for kills that are scary.
-Lastly, roll a Wirbel yourself every now and then. It helps to understand their abilities and limitations yourself.
Oink
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All I'm asking is for Wirbs to be like 3-5 perk points, maybe have their weapon modeled differently and everyone comes in here with their tips on how to kill Wirbs.
I can kill Wirbs! This is not the problem. They are not invulnerable.
My issue is their frequency of use. I haven't even brought up perking other planes and vehicles in this one thread, and already almost everyone just wants to defend the status quo.
I thought it was just a meme how people defend the status quo, but it really is true.
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More often than not, in these types of posts, the OP has a "problem" with , in this case wirbles. Most of us know that taking out a wirble is much easier than winning a dog fight. So people are thinking you dont know how to take out wirbles and so are "helping" you.
Wirbles are not over balancing game play so there will not be any changes made to the way they are allowed in the game. Much like running into Spit16s all the time, its annoying but thats the way it is.
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More often than not, in these types of posts, the OP has a "problem" with , in this case wirbles. Most of us know that taking out a wirble is much easier than winning a dog fight. So people are thinking you dont know how to take out wirbles and so are "helping" you.
Wirbles are not over balancing game play so there will not be any changes made to the way they are allowed in the game. Much like running into Spit16s all the time, its annoying but thats the way it is.
I believe Spit16s and many other late war planes should be perked. We have the infamous Yak-3 ENY issue.
All I'm asking for is one mechanic change. A spreadsheet entry, perhaps, to change the gameplay dynamic.
I swear if Tempests and 262s were made perkless you guys would be giving "tips" on how to kill them and talk about your K/D against them. Yeah cool I've had my victories against hard to kill targets myself. I just don't want my Aces High experience to be all about flying overpowered planes just to stay competitive.
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Relegate the Wirbs to Vbsase and disable spawns for them, or turn on a 6k icon for them.
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Relegate the Wirbs to Vbsase and disable spawns for them, or turn on a 6k icon for them.
It is rather annoying to have something with 4 20mm ripping you apart before an icon appears.
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I wish I had video of when they came out, turret traverse speed was twice as fast and it was like using a a laser cannon. I had 18 kills my first run before someone egged me. They are much easier to kill than then, icon distance was longer then as well.
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I believe Spit16s and many other late war planes should be perked. We have the infamous Yak-3 ENY issue.
All I'm asking for is one mechanic change. A spreadsheet entry, perhaps, to change the gameplay dynamic.
I swear if Tempests and 262s were made perkless you guys would be giving "tips" on how to kill them and talk about your K/D against them. Yeah cool I've had my victories against hard to kill targets myself. I just don't want my Aces High experience to be all about flying overpowered planes just to stay competitive.
Your looking at it as "your" game and what "You" want. HTC looks at it as a business. If they perk the Yak, spit16 and now the wirble, how many people would quit because they cant play the game with the planes and vehicles they want when they want?
Im tired of fighting spit16s but I know that they are going to be the plane I am most likely to run into. I know that HTC is never going to make a change.... even if it is just a couple numbers on a spread sheet.
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Your looking at it as "your" game and what "You" want. HTC looks at it as a business. If they perk the Yak, spit16 and now the wirble, how many people would quit because they cant play the game with the planes and vehicles they want when they want?
Im tired of fighting spit16s but I know that they are going to be the plane I am most likely to run into. I know that HTC is never going to make a change.... even if it is just a couple numbers on a spread sheet.
Oh nooo I can never spare 1-2 perks to fly a Yak 3 or Spit16. Better quit Aces High!
Look if HTC can share data that supports his decisions then I can understand. I am giving customer feedback because I would like to see a change. He's welcome to respond. I just hope it isn't just telling me to pick my plane up by it's chocks and "deal with it." Maybe we can have a little poll and settle this democratically.
I am tired of wanting to do air to ground missions, only to have 3 wirbs up at no cost. I really like flying Stukas and they are almost helpless against Wirbs.
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Your looking at it as "your" game and what "You" want. HTC looks at it as a business. If they perk the Yak, spit16 and now the wirble, how many people would quit because they cant play the game with the planes and vehicles they want when they want?
Im tired of fighting spit16s but I know that they are going to be the plane I am most likely to run into. I know that HTC is never going to make a change.... even if it is just a couple numbers on a spread sheet.
They shouldn’t be perked, the Yak-3 needs a 8 eny though.
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Actually, better yet, disable all enemy icons for Wirbs.
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Oh nooo I can never spare 1-2 perks to fly a Yak 3 or Spit16. Better quit Aces High!
Look if HTC can share data that supports his decisions then I can understand. I am giving customer feedback because I would like to see a change. He's welcome to respond. I just hope it isn't just telling me to pick my plane up by it's chocks and "deal with it." Maybe we can have a little poll and settle this democratically.
I am tired of wanting to do air to ground missions, only to have 3 wirbs up at no cost. I really like flying Stukas and they are almost helpless against Wirbs.
Believe it or not, some people cant afford the perks. Whether its perks or an ENY charge it is all irrelevant. Its Hitech's game and he is well know for running it his way, not as democracy but more as a dictatorship. He has the data and experience to guide the game on the course he sees fit.
This line is the one the is going to end your wish....
"I am tired of wanting to do air to ground missions, only to have 3 wirbs up at no cost. I really like flying Stukas and they are almost helpless against Wirbs."
The response more often than not is "Learn to adapt". HTC isnt going to make changes to the game because your tired of wirbles popping up. Sorry.
Personally I agree with you. I would rather see mechanics put in that make more air combat happen. Too many players are hiding in guns or under trees looking to avoid any chance of them getting killed while sniping at others for easy kills.
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I believe Spit16s and many other late war planes should be perked. We have the infamous Yak-3 ENY issue.
All I'm asking for is one mechanic change. A spreadsheet entry, perhaps, to change the gameplay dynamic.
I swear if Tempests and 262s were made perkless you guys would be giving "tips" on how to kill them and talk about your K/D against them. Yeah cool I've had my victories against hard to kill targets myself. I just don't want my Aces High experience to be all about flying overpowered planes just to stay competitive.
Completely agree. Small perks would do wonders for the balance of fighters in the game. We are at a point where the majority of players fly super late war planes because that is all they can compete in vs other super late war planes. Players that don't like using the easiest planes in the game (personal ego) have a very tough time enjoying the fights. Those players dont fly as much and we are left with an arena of super late war players who fly timidly and dont have a clue have a clue how to fight because they never have to. I am not sure why planes dont have a similar perk rating like the tanks.
I agree with the Wirbles. It sucks when you are flying along at 1-3k and all of the sudden a wirble blows your wing off out of freaking no where. All it takes is a few hits. Tanks that can shoot down planes very easily should be perked higher just because it's much more convenient than getting into a plane and flying to a base. Ruining someone's sortie seconds after you roll a Wirb is not fun for the player who spent 5-10 minutes flying to that base. Point and shoot flak guns should also be perked TBH.
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People can't afford 1-2 perks? Maybe they should learn to be better then!
Seriously if people unable to buy perked planes is an issue then maybe give out 10 free perk points every start of a tour. That way even bad players can earn some perks. What about assists? Maybe give a quarter of a perk score for having an assist. I think a lot of bad and beginner players would appreciate that. I know I have gotten kills stolen from me and I end up getting NOTHING for my effort, and I don't consider myself a bad player.
I hope this extra stuff doesn't derail the topic. I am just tired of this game not changing at all unless it is a new vehicle or fixing bugs.
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Ruining someone's sortie seconds after you roll a Wirb is not fun for the player who spent 5-10 minutes flying to that base.
Kinda right on par with driving 15 minutes to a town and get one bomb dropped by a plane flying over and you never got close enough to take one gun or building down. Sux doesn't it :noid
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Remember when the Wirbelwind was introduced? The turret rotation speed was twice as high as it is today, and fighters danced in front of it as it were just a different type of Ostwind.
Wreckages really piled up on bases in these first weeks. :devil
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Kinda right on par with driving 15 minutes to a town and get one bomb dropped by a plane flying over and you never got close enough to take one gun or building down. Sux doesn't it :noid
:uhoh I said I was sorry,Red :uhoh Red said," I know you are sorry...sorry,no good rat" :x It was a long time ago....and I MISS YOU :kiss: :rofl Awe...you even have my CallSign in your post :devil I really do miss ya :cheers:
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:uhoh I said I was sorry,Red :uhoh Red said," I know you are sorry...sorry,no good rat" :x It was a long time ago....and I MISS YOU :kiss: :rofl Awe...you even have my CallSign in your post :devil I really do miss ya :cheers:
Hey 1ST, and you've never ever even yelled at me the very few times I was able to take a piece or 2 off your Spit either :salute
Who's to say i'm NOT out there ? ... took a year sabbatical to play ground pounder Infantry like 52 years ago since back,
and have taken more than a few eggs from you recently :grin:
:salute good friend and keep the eggs coming :airplane:
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one word: jeep
:devil
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As long as you can kill hangars I think Wirbs are fine just like they are.
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Hey 1ST, and you've never ever even yelled at me the very few times I was able to take a piece or 2 off your Spit either :salute
Who's to say i'm NOT out there ? ... took a year sabbatical to play ground pounder Infantry like 52 years ago since back,
and have taken more than a few eggs from you recently :grin:
:salute good friend and keep the eggs coming :airplane:
SWEET! :rock Wait a minute.....Oh...SNEAKY :D New name...HMM. Eh, its never personal...I bomb everyone :aok Now to detective work, I go :old: Glad you are back :rock :devil That was too easy....I wasnt putting 2 and 2 together. Even with the Clue/Hint in your response...I am slowing down I guess :headscratch: I have "pounded" your tank and been "grounded" by damage a few times :rofl :airplane: :joystick:
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Oh...SNEAKY :D New name...HMM
LOL, yes but wasn't planned to be sneaky. The login and profile had changed since I stopped my subscription last February so when I came back in I just re-subbed with a new account. Started with no perks and just took it from there. I still go to ww2 online usually early hours to catch my fellow krauts online and play Infantry, then go on AH afternoons and evenings. The 'boss' told me I could play both subs if I was good.
See you on the field friend, just remember I like the eggs over easy on my M4. :banana:
It was a tossup between ground pounder and mud slogger (as you can see by a pic from my unit A 5/12th Inf in '68) since it seemed my outfit spent almost as much time treading water as hitting the dirt.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FRfZsQcf/wet3.jpg)
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Remember when the Wirbelwind was introduced? The turret rotation speed was twice as high as it is today, and fighters danced in front of it as it were just a different type of Ostwind.
Wreckages really piled up on bases in these first weeks. :devil
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3sZlRwZfxAI8g/giphy.gif)
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My issue is their frequency of use.
Well then, why not alter the frequency of use of all planes and vehicles... lets say, each plane or vehicle may
only be used 2x in a 24hr period... will that suffice?
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Well then, why not alter the frequency of use of all planes and vehicles... lets say, each plane or vehicle may
only be used 2x in a 24hr period... will that suffice?
Don't be ridiculous.
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Whirbels are tough but, vulnerable. Adapt your tactics and deal with them. :aok
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Whirbels are tough but, vulnerable. Adapt your tactics and deal with them. :aok
Yesssss... JEEP.... :devil (puma44 knows about the jeep of doom!)
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I would like to see the shut down distance counter increased for these... 1000?? 1500?? I don't know... 600 is just murder when those who cause a post like this are in wait.... Many times they are used in nefarious ways because they are invisible ...sure once they fire they are spotted but to stay out of range trying to spot them again is difficult... unless there are a few of you.... most times there is a get that wirb call after it has picked off a bunch of people trying to enjoy a good dog fight....
There are guys who use that as a tactic too... when you are chasing down a con he knows it is there... but you just see wirb D600 ... and unless I am in that wirb...you are pretty much toast..
Just my opinion on it.... It isn't really going to stop me playing if nothing changes...but things like this do impinge on how often I can be bothered
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Yesssss... JEEP.... :devil (puma44 knows about the jeep of doom!)
Yes! The VULCANJEEPOFDOOM! :x :rofl
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Don't be ridiculous.
This is essentially what u are requesting… u need ask yourself... Whose arse is to get gored?
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Next Week on "What I Hate" Is the YAK 3 over modeled? Stay Tuned My Friends. :bolt:
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Next Week on "What I Hate" Is the YAK 3 over modeled? Stay Tuned My Friends. :bolt:
Why wait until next week?
Dont know if its overmodelled. But it's under ENY'd!!! :bolt:
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i have damaged 100s of werbies secret is wait till they shoot at somebody else.
semp0
This is how most these days play the fighter aspect of the game too.
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I love wirbs!
-00pk
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This is essentially what u are requesting… u need ask yourself... Whose arse is to get gored?
Requesting 1-2 perk points for a wirb is the same as asking a 2 spawn limit per vehicle? Please.
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Requesting 1-2 perk points for a wirb is the same as asking a 2 spawn limit per vehicle? Please.
I'm guessing HotStuff does not understand the concept of SARCASM
:rofl
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I remember when Waystin climbed up a volcano in his wirbel and we took off our headsets because the cackling coming from him was horrifying while he slaughtered a whole squad and single handed destroyed a large 10k furball. Everyone tried to HO a wirbel with a volcano to it's back.
Waystin is very humble because in that last 15 years he has only mentioned it once.
This post is what happens when you have a small number of vets flying a 400mph slow chess game knowing each others moves. No one wants to die first while HOing has gone from being a social disgrace to a dirty secret to win fights. So anything that towers you with a perceived unfair advantage will give Hitech another forum post to keep an eye on for locking due to pandemic vitriol.
I would conjecture that ENY doesn't appear to drive the core game population away like so many doom and gloom. It has driven POTW to change countries to get away from it since we all like flying late war planes. Earlier war planes suck against vets in late war planes and make's the MA not very interesting to play in. POTW gets that every Friday three times a month in FSO. It SUCKS.......
Flying late war planes reflects another aspect of the MA, time doing nothing getting to the target or a fight. The NDIsles center island 3 base furballs, 13miles apart, do get out of hand eventually with many losers trading lack of ACM for alt and speed which is pandemic in the MA now with it's small population.
Changing ENY numbers to promote a few fighters to be unavailable sooner during ENY won't change how this game is played in the MA. If anything it will promote people to "I'm an easy kill" sooner by depriving them of something competitive. Most customers in the MA don't care about flying a garbage ride to enjoy the thrill of overcoming all odds. It stinks for them because they want some fun and not have their night ruined by being all night easy kills due to the deficit of advantages versus late war rides.
If Hitech really wanted to force side balancing, when ENY kicked in, all the late war rides become unavailable to all three countries. With mid and early war rides, all the vets are about equally skilled no matter the side imbalances. I think this would be better for promoting fights than the current ENY restrictions.
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I'm guessing HotStuff does not understand the concept of SARCASM
:rofl
:D
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Whirbs are the only effective GV defence against planes. Why do so many think we should go back the days of easy bomb tarding which ruined the GV game? If you're getting killed by whirbs it's because attempting low level bombing of vehicles.
Shouldn't it be as easy for them to kill you, as you them? That makes for a fun and fair game. :salute
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Whirbs are the only effective GV defence against planes. Why do so many think we should go back the days of easy bomb tarding which ruined the GV game? If you're getting killed by whirbs it's because attempting low level bombing of vehicles.
Shouldn't it be as easy for them to kill you, as you them? That makes for a fun and fair game. :salute
+1
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I hate jeeps with howitzers......
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I hate jeeps with howitzers......
Me too, these jeeps were much more fun along with the 199th "Rat Patrol" Jeeps with a Ma Deuce.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1Cc8g4Y/jeep.jpg)
Troopers from D Troop, 17th Cavalry 199th Light Infantry {Redcatchers} sporting a 106mm recoilless rifle 1968.
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Me too, these jeeps were much more fun along with the 199th "Rat Patrol" Jeeps with a Ma Deuce.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1Cc8g4Y/jeep.jpg)
Troopers from D Troop, 17th Cavalry 199th Light Infantry {Redcatchers} sporting a 106mm recoilless rifle 1968.
:uhoh And know,Vulcan has left this thread and gone to the "Wish List" to plead his case for this. DALE...I will double his offer..for a HAIL NOO. :neener:
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:uhoh And know,Vulcan has left this thread and gone to the "Wish List" to plead his case for this. DALE...I will double his offer..for a HAIL NOO. :neener:
:rofl :cheers: :rofl
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You guys are way slow off the mark: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398122.0.html
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You guys are way slow off the mark: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398122.0.html
Sure, but they had to wait 20 years to get to howitzer caliber levels :rofl
The M20 75mm was sure a popular caliber of the 40's, just as 105mm of the 60's.
Would be a useful tool in deterring left lane hoggers on the freeway for sure to roll up behind in one.
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The 50 cal takes out wirbs easily, osties are a bit harder, panzers and m8s. And there is nothing like stranding a T-34/85-tard in the middle of nowhere by tracking them (then using them as bait when their buddy/2nd account tries to bring out sups).
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I remember those days. You could actually track a plane and subsequently shoot it down. Don't know why they slowed the turret so much. Still able to kill cons though. Just not as easy.
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I remember those days. You could actually track a plane and subsequently shoot it down. Don't know why they slowed the turret so much. Still able to kill cons though. Just not as easy.
Reality
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The wirb is not the prob..its the Icon range setting we can see them from is the problem. I am guessing they are about the same size as a m18 and yet we don't see the pixels until late.
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The wirb is not the prob..its the Icon range setting we can see them from is the problem. I am guessing they are about the same size as a m18 and yet we don't see the pixels until late.
On the flip side, we could restrict the icon range that wirbs see. That way it makes it harder for them to identify and select targets.
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At least make the wirb icon range the same for friendly and enemy.