Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: trogdor on March 27, 2021, 05:25:21 PM

Title: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: trogdor on March 27, 2021, 05:25:21 PM
The current implementation of killshooter (you receive damage if your rounds strike a teammate) doesn't seem to have a positive effect on the game. Lately, it has become common for players to dive in front of teammates who are actively firing on a close bandit. I don't know what the motivation is, but there seem to be many players who purposely wait at a distance for others to engage enemy aircraft, then swoop in to clear teammates' 12 o'clocks; placing themselves squarely in their teammates' fire.
Result: the poacher may well kill the bandit AND his teammate from killshooter damage. Rinse, repeat.
This behavior is unlikely to change overnight. These guys know what they are doing, and will likely continue. Asking them to stop has not helped.

Options:
1) do nothing. let these parasitic clowns continue to ruin the efforts of others.
2) turn off damage from killshooter. at least you won't shoot yourself down when 5'5"Barely  (imaginary callsign) tries to poach.
3) Other ideas?

Does this even bother other folks in the game?
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Devil 505 on March 27, 2021, 06:27:36 PM
Honestly, HTC's killshooter system is the single best system I've seen in any game to prevent/punish team killing.

Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: shppr01 on March 27, 2021, 06:53:16 PM
Turning off killshooter will be more troublesome. You will then kill the teammate outright. Thus causing arguments that like " Why did you kill me? We are on the same side! I'm going to dog you and kill you back all night! These people who do that have just found a new way to upset the regulars. It pretty much won't stop until the schools open up again!

 Shipper   
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: hazmatt on March 27, 2021, 06:56:49 PM
It sounds like he's talking about turning the killshooter off so that you don't take damage and your teammate doesn't take damage. Did I read that right?
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2021, 07:00:52 PM
Personally I'd be happy if killshooter did no damage to either player. Would help to practice with aiming.  :t
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: trogdor on March 27, 2021, 07:29:37 PM
No damage to either player is what I'm suggesting.
The tradeoff is that everybody behind a bandit will be shooting all the time.
I'm interested to hear if there are any other ideas out there
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Nefarious on March 27, 2021, 08:44:37 PM
It would be nice to have the option for special events.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: SPKmes on March 27, 2021, 11:08:44 PM
The one thing I notice about killshooter is that my bullets should do way more damage to an enemy ... I tear apart when I hit a fiendly

Is killshooter set to give more damage?.. have a larger hit bubble?

Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Oldman731 on March 27, 2021, 11:35:46 PM
It would be nice to have the option for special events.


Isn't there a killshooter on/off switch in the arena setup menus?

- oldman
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: RotBaron on March 28, 2021, 01:27:40 AM
The one thing I notice about killshooter is that my bullets should do way more damage to an enemy ... I tear apart when I hit a fiendly

Is killshooter set to give more damage?.. have a larger hit bubble?

I have too.

Only thing I can think is difference in distance, but does ~200yds really make that much difference at 600yds out with 20mm cannons?
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Nefarious on March 28, 2021, 05:06:49 AM

Isn't there a killshooter on/off switch in the arena setup menus?

- oldman

Yes, but I would like to have a setting that damages and kills nobody. I have posted this in the wishlist forum, I called it Killshooter - Bullet Sponge. lol.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 28, 2021, 06:53:20 AM
Back in the early years of AH, the AH community would police itself on this particular issue

Some other options to possibly help these days

1- if a friendly dives infront of another friendly to kill steal,  and causes the friendly they are  killing stealing from to take damage,  should get a system warning if they cause small damage or

1 strike - first time they  causes  friendly to killshooter with  warning that if they do it again they will be png (person-non-grata) and are grounded with a time out for 10, 20, 30 minutes or more! Regardless if they are switching countrys by using the recent "auto  country  switching to help keep sides balanced " option that was added

2 - if they cause 2 (or  3) to kill shoot themselves , they are sent a message that they are grounded for 12 hours or something

Just some thoughts

TC
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: popeye on March 28, 2021, 07:12:28 AM

1- if a friendly dives infront of another friendly to kill steal,  and causes the friendly they are  killing stealing from to take damage,  should get a system warning if they cause small damage or

1 strike - first time they  causes  friendly to killshooter with  warning that if they do it again they will be png (person-non-grata) and are grounded with a time out for 10, 20, 30 minutes or more! Regardless if they are switching countrys by using the recent "auto  country  switching to help keep sides balanced " option that was added

2 - if they cause 2 (or  3) to kill shoot themselves , they are sent a message that they are grounded for 12 hours or something


So, if Jerk0ff69 deliberately shoots me, I become png and grounded?

Unintended consequences.....   :D

I like the idea of a system message for causing a friendly to take killshooter damage.  As it is, you don't really know that you caused damage to a friendly unless he <cough> "mentions" it.  Instead of a system message, it could be a distinctive "hit" sound.  (Apparently, there is no hit sound from friendly fire.)
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: popeye on March 28, 2021, 07:18:15 AM
Yes, but I would like to have a setting that damages and kills nobody. I have posted this in the wishlist forum, I called it Killshooter - Bullet Sponge. lol.

Or, it could be called, "Killshooter -- Poacher's Dream".   :D

Everyone even near the enemy would be spraying and praying, hoping that they get the lucky hit, with no consequences for shooting the friendly in front of them.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Lazerr on March 28, 2021, 08:43:06 AM
It doesn't bother me at all.  I shoot in bursts and will likely either hear or see the friendly between those bursts.

If it gets to the point ever that I feel someone is doing it on purpose,  I'll switch sides, hunt and kill them for a few days, maybe even weeks.   :D
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 28, 2021, 09:23:20 AM
So, if Jerk0ff69 deliberately shoots me, I become png and grounded?

Unintended consequences.....   :D

I like the idea of a system message for causing a friendly to take killshooter damage.  As it is, you don't really know that you caused damage to a friendly unless he <cough> "mentions" it.  Instead of a system message, it could be a distinctive "hit" sound.  (Apparently, there is no hit sound from friendly fire.)

No Kong,  maybe I didn't explain/ word what I meant or was too sleepy when I posted,  I was falling asleep after being up since yesterday, flew scenario then went to close friends home to start watching the ppv MMA fights last night (and what some great fights for the most part both preliminaries and the main event)

DJ(Dublin Jr.) My dog Just jumped all over onto of me barking waking me up hahaha, I  need coffee....dangit, could have slept a good 4 hrs more if I had just went and closed the shades (blinds) before I went to sleep
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Slate on March 31, 2021, 05:57:53 PM
  Some have respect the pilot on the enemies 6 and just fly a lag in case of overshoot then the shot is theirs to take. Many a time when someone clears someones 12 they get a rash of vox if they deserve it. You can't mandate honor.
  Other times it's just 2 pilots trying to occupy the same airspace in a furball. It has gotten me a few times but Very rare I find kill shooter a problem.
 
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: captain1ma on March 31, 2021, 08:15:49 PM
in monday night madness we shut off killshooter. you'll get the occasional "you shot me down" with the immediate reply of "well dont fly in front of me when im firing!"
the difference is that in monday night madness, we're all friendly and happy!

yes killshooter can be turned off, the question is, should it? in the MA, NOT ON A BET!!
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: svaalbar on March 31, 2021, 10:36:01 PM
Im dumb.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: 1stpar3 on April 01, 2021, 02:10:28 AM
in monday night madness we shut off killshooter. you'll get the occasional "you shot me down" with the immediate reply of "well dont fly in front of me when im firing!"
the difference is that in monday night madness, we're all friendly and happy!

yes killshooter can be turned off, the question is, should it? in the MA, NOT ON A BET!!
DAMN CLOUD ANOMILY!!! That is the biggest culprit, imho! I have tagged ULBlizz a time or 2(at least she didnt tell my Sis :rofl)...and denied Red Guys the kill! Happened just the other Monday(Mothman is my BW squaddie)!!! Moral of this story...If the AA isnt shooting, dont rock the Allie ? :rofl ZERO Fs GIVEN!!! Still funny!!!! We might have some Attendees, that are a challenge to deal with...but it works. Also best $15 bucks I ever spend!! Most prevalent on Coms..."Jeager1: Get away from me"..."DANG IT TSHARK..and your Ki-43"..."Blizz, belly check(PUMA's influence)" watermelon I had better luck in killing her in this way(on same side), than me and VEX(my first Squad CO) together!???? "Par, wanna swap teams to even numbers?" "SURE", I said. Blizz showed up late... "Dang it, PAR"!!!! That chick is kicking our ass!!!" Then I sprung the "She is my Niece", Delta/V3x!!!"YEAH, you mentioned her before!"  Hope she didnt bruise his EGO? I blame Sis :rofl  DAMN I LOVE YOU GUYS :rock 
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Puma44 on April 01, 2021, 08:06:09 AM
  Some have respect the pilot on the enemies 6 and just fly a lag in case of overshoot then the shot is theirs to take. Many a time when someone clears someones 12 they get a rash of vox if they deserve it. You can't mandate honor.
  Other times it's just 2 pilots trying to occupy the same airspace in a furball. It has gotten me a few times but Very rare I find kill shooter a problem.
 

Fairly common in the MA to have a 3,4,5,6 v 1 with a horde of players trying to get the kill (points).  Very frustrating to have someone drop in front as I’m preparing to fire and take the kill because of whatever motivates them at the time.  I’d very much like it off so there are consequences to that type of behavior, just like there would be real world.  :salute
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: trogdor on April 12, 2021, 06:44:00 PM
Yeah, I've done that. Even tried staying on same side and flying one well-known offender's wing for an hour, poaching his kills and flying thru his fire on purpose. He was angry and felt it wasn't fair to be treated the way he treats others. He's still poaching. Nothing changed, and i felt like a avacado for giving him an hour of my attention.  :O
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Wiley on April 12, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
Fairly common in the MA to have a 3,4,5,6 v 1 with a horde of players trying to get the kill (points).  Very frustrating to have someone drop in front as I’m preparing to fire and take the kill because of whatever motivates them at the time.  I’d very much like it off so there are consequences to that type of behavior, just like there would be real world.  :salute

That would be swell up until he ups a second time and now you've got to keep an eye on that green plane and a few of his buddies.

If you're one of the 6, it's up to you to control your gunnery, and yeah, some people just don't care about flying in front of people.  I'm not sure if we'd see much of a behavioral difference if they just made it so nobody gets damaged.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Slate on April 12, 2021, 07:53:18 PM
That would be swell up until he ups a second time and now you've got to keep an eye on that green plane and a few of his buddies.

If you're one of the 6, it's up to you to control your gunnery, and yeah, some people just don't care about flying in front of people.  I'm not sure if we'd see much of a behavioral difference if they just made it so nobody gets damaged.

Wiley.

  In WOT you can cause damage to a friendly tank but the consequence is your own point deduction. Loss of 50 perks worth shooting a friendly? Maybe if you hate him enough. Still better than taking damage to your own plane.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: waystin2 on April 15, 2021, 11:15:50 AM
Honestly, HTC's killshooter system is the single best system I've seen in any game to prevent/punish team killing.
This.  And add a little situational awareness and you rarely shoot a friendly/shoot yourself.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Puma44 on April 15, 2021, 12:03:08 PM
I'm not sure if we'd see much of a behavioral difference if they just made it so nobody gets damaged.

Wiley.

True.  But, there would be some level of gratification seeing the score hog blow up as a result of the behavior.

And, as Waystin says, a little situational awareness is key. And then, there’s common courtesy.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: waystin2 on April 15, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
I think Lazer mentioned similar sentiments as well. Fire in short bursts, know when you are gonna hit target so you can shoot at right time, and know where other planes are around you while engaging. This takes time and self control but pays off in hits landed on bad guys.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Wiley on April 15, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
True.  But, there would be some level of gratification seeing the score hog blow up as a result of the behavior.

And, as Waystin says, a little situational awareness is key. And then, there’s common courtesy.

"Common courtesy" in an online game...  Be happy when you get it, never expect it. ;)

Personally I think killshooter's the best solution.  Incentive to control your fire, and being one of 6 on a bandit has consequences. 

Wiley.
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Flavel on April 16, 2021, 10:08:22 AM
If I recall rightly, in Air Warrior you could shoot down friendlies, but if you made it a habit you got flagged "Persona non grata;" essentially an 8 hour time out.
 
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Eagler on April 16, 2021, 02:58:08 PM
Be the one who swoops in while the others play with their food...

Kill shooter is their problem not mine :)

All of us occasionally damage and even shoot ourselves down with this but it is still better than the alternative  IMO

Eagler
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: Oldman731 on April 16, 2021, 07:54:35 PM
If I recall rightly, in Air Warrior you could shoot down friendlies, but if you made it a habit you got flagged "Persona non grata;" essentially an 8 hour time out.


True.

Very few things compare with the hate generated by a fragger.  Long live killshooter.

- oldman
Title: Re: Turn off Killshooter, or at least modify it
Post by: nrshida on April 17, 2021, 04:36:28 AM
Yeah, I've done that. Even tried staying on same side and flying one well-known offender's wing for an hour, poaching his kills and flying thru his fire on purpose. He was angry and felt it wasn't fair to be treated the way he treats others. He's still poaching. Nothing changed, and i felt like a avacado for giving him an hour of my attention.  :O

 :rofl  :aok

Still far too much emphasis on the equality of outcome in the MA for non-US primetime (which is observable expanding b.t.w.). The culture or arena settings can't change this IMHO, only altering the map architecture could.

 :salute Trog