Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: oboe on November 02, 2021, 06:54:28 PM
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I don't have much background info on this one, but the nose art caught my eye, and the unusual pattern of antiglare paint- bare cowls - very minimal coverage on the engine nacelle. Some profiles show her with the black de-icing boots on tails and wing, some just the tail. I have one period B&W photo where she appears to have none (I think they were removed at some point).
The 490th BG apparently started out as a Liberator group, but converted to B-17s in August 1944. The Group flew 158 missions losing 22 aircraft, the lowest loss rate of all the 8th USAAF Bomb Groups.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34456)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34458)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34460)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34462)
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:aok
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Looking damn good so far.
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looks good Oboe
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Gonna be a nice one.
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These are the best sources I have for this aircraft. I have pics of well-done plastic models and other color profiles too. Most seem to favor including the leading edge black de-ice boots, but the period B&W photo doesn't show them. The color photo below has me especially vexed - it looks more recent than a WWII color photo, but I can find no record of this aircraft having been restored. The rudder in particular, looks rebuilt. The four gigantic rivets along the rudder's leading edge look completely out-of-scale.
Also, are there any experts out there who know what the "+" preceding the ID letter "J" indicates? I saw this on a later War image of E-RAT-ICATOR as well - post-Jan 1945, when the 8th AF really expanded it's use of colored bands and tail ID markings.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34464)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34466)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34468)
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34470)
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Looks really good so far Oboe.
I'd say the colour photo is of a modern warbird judging by the shininess of the aircraft and the quality of the photo. Also the airframe code on the B&W photo is positioned lower down on the fin than the colour photo or your skin and appears to be painted in a light colour, perhaps red or yellow.
Not sure about the plus sign although I have seen it on 8th AF B-24s too, perhaps a flight leader's identification?
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In the B&W photo, I'm not seeing the red stripe outside of the outboard engine like I do in the color photos, at least I don't see it going down the wing completely. As Greebo pointed out, the ID number sits a little lower, and to me closer to the +J, almost touching. The J appears wider at the base and sits closer to the rudder. The + appears to be thicker as well and the heart also appears higher on the fuselage in the B&W. Top of the heart appears just at the height of the stabilizer and a bit bigger. Again, I'm looking at the B&W. :aok
Think you can give us a better side shot on the aircraft, trying to match the B&W's angle?
Lyric, do you happen to have a bit more information on this gal, or can dig up more?
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The + is probably that squadron's format. Some were plain, some underlined, some overlined.
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In the B&W photo, I'm not seeing the red stripe outside of the outboard engine like I do in the color photos, at least I don't see it going down the wing completely. As Greebo pointed out, the ID number sits a little lower, and to me closer to the +J, almost touching. The J appears wider at the base and sits closer to the rudder. The + appears to be thicker as well and the heart also appears higher on the fuselage in the B&W. Top of the heart appears just at the height of the stabilizer and a bit bigger. Again, I'm looking at the B&W. :aok
Think you can give us a better side shot on the aircraft, trying to match the B&W's angle?
Lyric, do you happen to have a bit more information on this gal, or can dig up more?
I will take a look when I get off work. Oboe is very thorough on research so chances are what you see is what you get.
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Lyric, do you happen to have a bit more information on this gal, or can dig up more?
Have found these images so far.
http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/39472
Plus an image of the crew. Not much help with what we need so far. I think the full colour photo Oboe posted of the plane is a screen shot from some SIM game. :headscratch:
http://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/31986
Facebook has been helpful.
(https://i.imgur.com/b7jMF3th.jpg)
Real colour image & red stripe visible on left elevator.
(https://i.imgur.com/lVNjKaOh.jpg)
Defiantly a stripe seen on the tail in this image of her.
(https://i.imgur.com/KANw9bih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/awDTMPzh.jpg)
Partial stripe visible on left wing?
(https://i.imgur.com/coQnkYXh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1MFNrDph.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ugi3LY4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iJsDvc6h.jpg)
Some sister aircraft from the same squadron all have stripes. The + symbol looks to be part of the units identification.
(https://i.imgur.com/B1XXko6h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pOflwJ6h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9eCJm9jh.jpg)
Plenty Of colour photos showing red stripes in this link.
https://www.americanairmuseum.com/unit/474
A few examples.
(https://i.imgur.com/9ot0zJph.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/edyMBQrh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/T27Fjy2h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eiP5Zq4h.jpg)
Decal on Facebook I forgot.
(https://i.imgur.com/HPkd1ihh.jpg)
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Fantastic stuff, lyric, thank you!
Images of the right side of tail especially helpful, I wasn't sure if the heart was duplicated there. I can't replicate the name banner "Pudgy" at that location though - the B-17 skin map has only the left side of the tail turret and that is duplicated for the right side. So we are stuck with the "Lorraine" banner on that side, except the name is backwards. The reversed letters are evident only at very close range though.
I've made adjustments to the size and location of tail serial name and ID letters per the original B&W photo I posted.
The photos you've found also definitively answer for me the question about the black leading edge de-ice boots. I won't include them. While most color profiles I found show these, I suspect these are cases of the artist adding extra elements to make the work more visually interesting. I think its likely the Fort arrived in theater in 1944 with these boots in place, but they were removed in due course - so they would've not been present by the time the nose art and number of missions matched the more famous images we see of the aircraft.
Interesting too how the right side of rudder is missing a patch of color. Wonder if the rudder was damaged/repaired after it was painted red?
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The + is probably that squadron's format. Some were plain, some underlined, some overlined.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hazy.home.xs4all.nl/Planes/T3165%2520Mission%2520Belle/Books%2520and%2520Magazines/Battle%2520Colors%25201%2520-%2520Insignia%2520and%2520Aircraft%2520Markings%2520of%2520the%2520Eighth%2520Air%2520Force%2520in%2520World%2520War%2520II.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6opSroP_zAhVOpXIEHU3kCoEQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3LVVHzdivEXxNUv1xnmgCV
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Holy cats, great find Vraciu! :x
It says this group adopting the +/- symbols as an aid to identification.
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Holy cats, great find Vraciu! :x
It says this group adopting the +/- symbols as an aid to identification.
Yes, + is one squadron, _ is another, - is another, and plain is a fourth in some groups.
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Volron, Vraciu, lyric - thanks for your help on this bird.
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:aok :salute
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Volron, Vraciu, lyric - thanks for your help on this bird.
Anytime, bud. You’ve helped me plenty. :cheers:
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://hazy.home.xs4all.nl/Planes/T3165%2520Mission%2520Belle/Books%2520and%2520Magazines/Battle%2520Colors%25201%2520-%2520Insignia%2520and%2520Aircraft%2520Markings%2520of%2520the%2520Eighth%2520Air%2520Force%2520in%2520World%2520War%2520II.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj6opSroP_zAhVOpXIEHU3kCoEQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3LVVHzdivEXxNUv1xnmgCV
Have a couple of others in this series.
Good find. :aok
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Volron, Vraciu, lyric - thanks for your help on this bird.
My pleasure.
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(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404040.0;attach=34464)
Oboe, I did some checking and there was never a warbird painted in that scheme. If you look closely at the crew, I believe it to be a screenshot from a game, such as IL2 or DCS.
Cheers
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Thanks Fencer - I really got fooled by that color shot. Looks so real to me. Maybe the new MSFS?
I will go back to the standard antiglare color scheme then. I'm busy this weekend but will pick up work on the skin again next week.
<S>
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Thanks Fencer - I really got fooled by that color shot. Looks so real to me. Maybe the new MSFS?
I will go back to the standard antiglare color scheme then. I'm busy this weekend but will pick up work on the skin again next week.
<S>
Ya know.. I miss skinning, enjoy it.
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Are you still in AH Fencer? Ran into you once in WoT.
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I have not played WoT since 2012ish.. played some WoWS up until Feb this year, they screwed it up for DDs to much for me.
I quit flying AH in 2014ish.. had not flown the MA for a couple years before that.. canceled my sub a few years after that.
My nerve damage from my congenital spinal stenosis just makes it too hard to fly.
So upset that I had to have my neck surgery in 2003, they had to replace parts of my spine at the neck with two rods.
So I cannot look up or look left kr right more than a few degrees. In fairness I was going paralyzed, so I am grateful.
Would really had enjoyed VR in DCS.
Good to see you around again though Treize, always enjoyed flying with you in the MA and in scenarios.
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I have not played WoT since 2012ish.. played some WoWS up until Feb this year, they screwed it up for DDs to much for me.
I quit flying AH in 2014ish.. had not flown the MA for a couple years before that.. canceled my sub a few years after that.
My nerve damage from my congenital spinal stenosis just makes it too hard to fly.
So upset that I had to have my neck surgery in 2003, they had to replace parts of my spine at the neck with two rods.
So I cannot look up or look left kr right more than a few degrees. In fairness I was going paralyzed, so I am grateful.
Would really had enjoyed VR in DCS.
Good to see you around again though Treize, always enjoyed flying with you in the MA and in scenarios.
Hey Fencer, any chance for improvement with physical therapy?
Was just thinking, Aces High has a unique implementation of views in VR - the view hat switch is still functional, so you can set and save 'views' just like we did before, but also have the benefit of being in VR. Dunno why the other sims don't implement it this way.