Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: AKKuya on November 15, 2021, 02:18:38 PM
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From conversations with other players, the idea of having both versions available be viable? Would the player base return?
AH3 would be the Beta Max version of the game. The great graphics and VR would satisfy the high end players. New players that have the newer and amplified systems could enjoy both versions.
AH2 would be the VHS version of the game. Players that left the game could be brought back. New players with old and regular systems would be OK.
On paper, this seems like a perfect solution to the situation with low numbers. Using the WW1 arena as an example, the possibility of AH3 could be an Early War arena or a Mid War arena population as a result.
Logging on to the server at the Clipboard:
Open Melee (AH3)
Open Blue Arena (AH2)
WW1 Western Front
Axis versus Allies
WW1
Match Play
Steal the Sheep
Training Arena
This would show the population of the servers. Maybe the Blue arena will dominate and regulate Melee to lower numbers. That's not bad. Melee would serve as a unique server. Just like Special Events and AvA, Melee would host their own events for players. Being the crown jewel, over time as players decide on getting the higher end systems, AH3 will start to flourish.
In order for AH3 to flourish, AH2 will need to be available. That player base will feed into the AH3 player base. It might take several years to achieve that. No time limit. Let it happen naturally.
I prefer seeing 400 plus players in Blue arena and 100 players in Melee. Large maps to Blue and Small maps to Melee to handle the populations. Possibly 10 years from now, we will have a gradual shift from AH2 to AH3. You can't expect players to spend 1500 dollars on a system right away. On time, prices go down and compatibility is matched.
Just my 2 cents. :salute
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Is AH3 really so resource intensive that it's limiting players? I ask because the minimum specs listed on the website are really low. Any PC built in the last 10 years with any kind of gpu should meet those specs. I built a rig for a family member just last month for $500CAD (~$400USD) that meets the minimum specs and checks all the recommended except the gpu, so even a low end new system will run it as long as you're not trying to push HD graphics with everything maxed. This is all based on the listed specs, I have a bit of a monster rig so I can't test to see real world performance with a minimum spec system (I should have tested it out with that family build).
Don't mean to shoot you down Kuya, my point is that I don't think AH3 is as demanding as most people think. :salute
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AH3 terrains suck for the ground game. No other way to say it. The 85 spawn, the 135/136 spawn area, the Crack Den (the Crater). These things mattered to people.
In AH2 you could have a great fight on the way to the town or base. In AH3, all you're doing is driving through forests.
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FINETIME picks up $400 laptops that run the game well enough for him to have a fleet of buff formations. No AH3 isn't a resource hog. If players wanted to come back they could fairly easily. Controllers might be more of a problem than computers.
AH3 terrains suck for the ground game. No other way to say it. The 85 spawn, the 135/136 spawn area, the Crack Den (the Crater). These things mattered to people.
In AH2 you could have a great fight on the way to the town or base. In AH3, all you're doing is driving through forests.
Thats one of the "easy" fixes Id love to see Hitech try out for a tour, cut the tree count down by 60-75%. I don't know how "speedtrees" is integrated into the map but if its an easy thing to change, why not? Would it really cause players to leave if there were less trees?
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AH3 terrains suck for the ground game. No other way to say it. The 85 spawn, the 135/136 spawn area, the Crack Den (the Crater). These things mattered to people.
In AH2 you could have a great fight on the way to the town or base. In AH3, all you're doing is driving through forests.
Ah2 I had tons of fun. In AH3 I spend more time playing "dodge the trees" then fighting
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AH2 and AH3 are two different sandboxes.
No way to have them both on one server.
Coogan
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Would it be such a bad thing to have AH2 back live again?
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Ah2 I had tons of fun. In AH3 I spend more time playing "dodge the trees" then fighting
The trees wouldnt be all that bad on some maps if you could atleast run them over. Maybe atleast they shouldn't grab arms in hold onto my tiger not letting me going anywhere while getting my bellybutton bombed by some tard using the film viewer to find tanks.
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Thats one of the "easy" fixes Id love to see Hitech try out for a tour, cut the tree count down by 60-75%. I don't know how "speedtrees" is integrated into the map but if its an easy thing to change, why not? Would it really cause players to leave if there were less trees?
I'm certain that what I'm about to suggest is like looking for whiskey in an empty bottle, but yeah, a desert terrain map would really turn the gv warfare people on. And, no, I'm not a coder or gamer tech person, it's just my observation. In WBs there are maps that are tank friendly and those that are not. I have not begun to explore ground warfare in AH, and the way things are going, it may yet be a while.
And to answer Fugitive's question, I would be in favor of fewer trees.
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In AH2 the gv battles were epic and fun.
When we moved to AH3, gv battles changed a lot, not so epic.
I like the idea of AH2 and AH3 both available. Might bring back some gv'ers who bailed when the fun died off.
:aok
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https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400743.0.html (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,400743.0.html)
If I remember correctly HT uses blade servers in a rack. I believe the Western Front arena runs on a different blade than the Melee.
I doubt server/blade availability is the issue. The question is fragmenting and dividing the player-base vs luring back older players and offering an option for the subscription adverse. Would require some account/billing code changes. I would assume that is easier than core simulation code changes.
As far as GV, The clutter tiles could be edited and new versions of the terrains rebuilt. Alternatively, existing terrains could be edited to use more grassland tiles around GV spawn points and between there and any target the would move toward. Like I think Buster did on his last terrain, but I never GV'd so I don't know if that experiment was successful.
$0.02.
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Yes to less trees, especially the type that grab your GV and won’t let go until you reverse/forward enough times that the game actually picks your tank up and moves you free.
If a player(s) is determined to bomb your GV, you are going to get bombed. If they miss, they’ll just rearm. In these situations where you’re out there in a tank and have no flak or ftr support close by (which is not guarantee to shoot them down anyways) regardless of how much tree cover is you’ll get bombed.
Happens to me almost everyday I play, usually numerous times.
So yes to cutting down some trees, they are hampering the GV game rather than helping.
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My 2 cents:
Bring AH2 back at $9.95 @ mo. Enable all planes & vehicles that were available in the Early & Mid-War arenas. Send out an e-blitz mail to ALL present and past subscribers offering a complimentary 2 week pass predicated on providing a credit card #that automatically kicks in on day 15.
Would present Melee players sign up? I bet 50% would.
Would present Melee players drop their present accounts in favor of AH2? Maybe 10% +/-
I know I'd sign up for AH2 and keep my present Melee sub. I suspect a chitload of old players would bite on this, as well as some new blood.
What ya think Hitech? What would be the down side? Seems to me this is a WIN WIN for everyone.
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And make both smaller and closer so fights don't take forever to get to
What about the rolling planeset some are mentioning in other posts?
Sounds like a neat idea
Eagler
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My 2 cents:
Bring AH2 back at $9.95 @ mo. Enable all planes & vehicles that were available in the Early & Mid-War arenas. Send out an e-blitz mail to ALL present and past subscribers offering a complimentary 2 week pass predicated on providing a credit card #that automatically kicks in on day 15.
Would present Melee players sign up? I bet 50% would.
Would present Melee players drop their present accounts? Maybe 10% +/-
I know I'd sign up for AH2 and keep my present Melee sub. I suspect a chitload of old players would bite on this, as well as some new blood.
What ya think Hitech? What would be the down side?
I dont understand why anyone would want AH2 back. Players arent going to log in just because AH2 is running. It is the same exact game with crappier graphics and no VR.
If you reduce the aircraft to only mid and early aircraft everyone will just switch to the fastest plane with the best guns of that set and all we will see is that plane running from others instead of ponies and yaks.
Also, creating another arena is only going to split the low population and give us LESS players per arena.
Dropping the sub may help, but now your cutting into Hitechs money and if he is just getting by as it is that will only bring the end quicker.
And make both smaller and closer so fights don't take forever to get to
What about the rolling planeset some are mentioning in other posts?
Sounds like a neat idea
Eagler
Rolling plane sets was the first thing that drove away the majority of players in Warbirds back in the day, I doubt it would work here any better. While you are fulling into fighting in fighters, the majority of those playing now are not. Most like to bomb or grab bases, or just defend by porking bases or running resupply. MOST do not like to fight remember all those guys that run away in the fast planes?
To answer the OP, can they run both AH2 and AH3, sure, I run both on my computer, I have lots of older films that seem to run better on AH2. Should they run both? I dont think so, as I said whats the point, no VR and crappier graphics.
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At this point he needs to just lease out his networking solution to some of the bigger players
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I dont understand why anyone would want AH2 back. Players arent going to log in just because AH2 is running. It is the same exact game with crappier graphics and no VR.
People with lower end systems (like Hajo) that don't have VR and don't want to build a new system? GV'rs who don't like trees? Old players that might enjoy coming back just for the nostalgia?
Also, creating another arena is only going to split the low population and give us LESS players per arena.
Dropping the sub may help, but now your cutting into Hitechs money and if he is just getting by as it is that will only bring the end quicker.
You say no one will like AH2 but you then say it will empty out AH3?
I say it might bring back old players who didn't like AHIII.
I say it might bring in some players who didn't like subscriptions and give you a chance to convince over time.
Did you read the points I made in the provided link? Rather than have to repeat them?
Max, the problem I see with 9.95/mo is that it still turns off all those players out there that don't like subscriptions. They might drop a one time $19.99 or something. I've bought a ton of games for a one time purchase that it would have been VERY difficult for me to be talked into a subscription.
Hook'em with a one time purchase of the older version. The reel them in with "oh man, but it is so much better over in AHIII! Go give that a try!"
They will have at least had a chance over a couple of months to really learn to fly and fight in AHII without a subscription and meet people coming over from AHIII for an occasional nostalgia trip. Maybe forming friendships. Maybe joining a squd who's main activity is over in AHIII. Think of it as a stealth outreach program.
I see current players adding it not converting back to it exclusively.
On the other hand, maybe it can get you some players that you are failing to convince with a 2-week trial and the friction of an on-going subscription. As well as put some money in your pocket to get some AHIII work or advertising done. The cost in bandwidth and hardware would be inconsequential. Especially with only 150 players in the AHIII active. It doesn't even require anything scary to change in AHIII for all those who fear change.
There are never guarantees anything will ever work. But at some point a drowning man has to be willing to at least lift a finger to try and save themselves. Do SOMETHING. Try SOMETHING. If you are going to go down, go down exercising some free agency. Go down fighting. Just don't lay down like this was a hospice waiting for your personal RIP thread.
Or just default to the usual
"that will never work"
"can't try that"
"that's not guaranteed to work"
"no point in trying"
"Oh look another skins pack. That's all we need."
Crap nevermind. I forgot I'm not supposed to care anymore. :rofl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness)
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I dont understand why anyone would want AH2 back. Players arent going to log in just because AH2 is running. It is the same exact game with crappier graphics and no VR.
Read back thru this thread Fugi. A number of comments mention GV fights in AH2 as being more prolific, as well as a disdain for navigating the forest we have now. While the present day clouds, water and general land rendering is a step above in AH3, it also required those with older GPU's to upgrade or fall by the wayside. Quite a few did just that. I can't comment on VR as I've been reluctant to invest $500 +/- on the hardware. Those who crave it have it fully available in Melee. Just as a personal side note, I found it much easier to walk in tracers in AH2. Perhaps my eyes were better then but at age 69 I have difficulty with the tracers/sprites/hits.
If you reduce the aircraft to only mid and early aircraft everyone will just switch to the fastest plane with the best guns of that set and all we will see is that plane running from others instead of ponies and yaks.
Perhaps, but Pony D's, La7's , Dora's and Dash 4-U's won't be leading the retreats...and perhaps new and old players will try on aircraft they never before experienced.
Also, creating another arena is only going to split the low population and give us LESS players per arena.
To the contrary, I believe any depletion from Melee to AH2 would be short lived, and overall, new blood would populate the game.
Dropping the sub may help, but now your cutting into Hitechs money and if he is just getting by as it is that will only bring the end quicker.
Rolling plane sets was the first thing that drove away the majority of players in Warbirds back in the day, I doubt it would work here any better. While you are fulling into fighting in fighters, the majority of those playing now are not. Most like to bomb or grab bases, or just defend by porking bases or running resupply. MOST do not like to fight remember all those guys that run away in the fast planes?
No one, including myself said anything about rolling planesets.
To answer the OP, can they run both AH2 and AH3, sure, I run both on my computer, I have lots of older films that seem to run better on AH2. Should they run both? I dont think so, as I said whats the point, no VR and crappier graphics.
Your opinion. The fact remains that the game as it now stands is losing ground on a steady slippery slope. My goal is to prevent that from ending the game due to the player attrition and INCREASE revenue streams to HTC.
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Rolling plane sets was the first thing that drove away the majority of players in Warbirds back in the day,
Rolling Plane Sets was was one of the better ideas over there....... But furballers hated it, just like they hate having to fly more than 5 mins to get back their furball.
Most ex-AW players I meet in IL-2, WW2OL or DCS didn't leave because they needed a High End PC..... they left because of poor play play.
CAV
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Also, creating another arena is only going to split the low population and give us LESS players per arena.
To clarify, I was suggesting AHII running on it's own blade server. It's own ip address.
AHIII client would know nothing about AHII.
AHII client doesn't need to know anything about AHIII.
Separate servers and clients. Not just another arena listed in AHIII.
Might need a new forum area on the BBS.
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People with lower end systems (like Hajo) that don't have VR and don't want to build a new system? GV'rs who don't like trees? Old players that might enjoy coming back just for the nostalgia?
Hajo is like those you call nostalgic and he DID come back. He didnt leave because his computer couldnt handle it, he left again because there isnt the same fun any more. Those that play dont play like we use to in the old days so it just doesnt have the same "pazazz" it use to. He wont upgrade his computer to do VR because he knows the the game play waits and VR wont cure that.
You say no one will like AH2 but you then say it will empty out AH3?
I say it might bring back old players who didn't like AHIII.
I say it might bring in some players who didn't like subscriptions and give you a chance to convince over time.
Did you read the points I made in the provided link? Rather than have to repeat them?
I was going off what the OP suggested when spliting the arena/blade He was hoping for 400 in AH2 and 100 In AH3 I dont think we will ever see those numbers again even if the game was free and had unlimited advertising. Yes I read the other post, I think its all a dream. While Im sure HTC has AH2 on an old drive someplace I very much doubt he'd put it out again unless its a "last breath" type thing. Even with a one time feethere just isnt going to be enough intrest in an old game with crappy graphics.
Max, the problem I see with 9.95/mo is that it still turns off all those players out there that don't like subscriptions. They might drop a one time $19.99 or something. I've bought a ton of games for a one time purchase that it would have been VERY difficult for me to be talked into a subscription.
Hook'em with a one time purchase of the older version. The reel them in with "oh man, but it is so much better over in AHIII! Go give that a try!"
They will have at least had a chance over a couple of months to really learn to fly and fight in AHII without a subscription and meet people coming over from AHIII for an occasional nostalgia trip. Maybe forming friendships. Maybe joining a squd who's main activity is over in AHIII. Think of it as a stealth outreach program.
I see current players adding it not converting back to it exclusively.
On the other hand, maybe it can get you some players that you are failing to convince with a 2-week trial and the friction of an on-going subscription. As well as put some money in your pocket to get some AHIII work or advertising done. The cost in bandwidth and hardware would be inconsequential. Especially with only 150 players in the AHIII active. It doesn't even require anything scary to change in AHIII for all those who fear change.
There are never guarantees anything will ever work. But at some point a drowning man has to be willing to at least lift a finger to try and save themselves. Do SOMETHING. Try SOMETHING. If you are going to go down, go down exercising some free agency. Go down fighting. Just don't lay down like this was a hospice waiting for your personal RIP thread.
Or just default to the usual
"that will never work"
"can't try that"
"that's not guaranteed to work"
"no point in trying"
"Oh look another skins pack. That's all we need."
Crap nevermind. I forgot I'm not supposed to care anymore. :rofl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness)
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I agree with the last, Id love to see him try something, anything even if it just a little something as a thankyou to all of us who have been sending him money month in and month out for 20 years. Get rid of most of the trees, get rid of the big maps.
Read back thru this thread Fugi. A number of comments mention GV fights in AH2 as being more prolific, as well as a disdain for navigating the forest we have now. While the present day clouds, water and general land rendering is a step above in AH3, it also required those with older GPU's to upgrade or fall by the wayside. Quite a few did just that. I can't comment on VR as I've been reluctant to invest $500 +/- on the hardware. Those who crave it have it fully available in Melee. Just as a personal side note, I found it much easier to walk in tracers in AH2. Perhaps my eyes were better then but at age 69 I have difficulty with the tracers/sprites/hits.
My computer is 10 years old I7, 16 MB ram, Nvidia GTX 1060 it run my quest2 with ease. At 62 I dont shoot any better with it, but it sure makes dieing a lot more fun.
Perhaps, but Pony D's, La7's , Dora's and Dash 4-U's won't be leading the retreats...and perhaps new and old players will try on aircraft they never before experienced.
Your just changing to runners, instead of ponies it will be a P38, or KI84 doing the running and thats what people will be using to chase them.
[quot]Also, creating another arena is only going to split the low population and give us LESS players per arena.
To the contrary, I believe any depletion from Melee to AH2 would be short lived, and overall, new blood would populate the game.
Dropping the sub may help, but now your cutting into Hitechs money and if he is just getting by as it is that will only bring the end quicker.
No one, including myself said anything about rolling planesets.
Your opinion. The fact remains that the game as it now stands is losing ground on a steady slippery slope. My goal is to prevent that from ending the game due to the player attrition and INCREASE revenue streams to HTC.
[/quote]
Eagler mentioned rolling plane sets.
I agree is losing ground, I have been saying it for some time now. Unfortunately Hitech seem reluctant to make ANY changes. Maybe he's afriad any change will finish off what he has now. Maybe he just doesnt want to be bothered with old grumps any more. Maybe he's busy working in a new field, who knows.
I'd love to see some changes just for the sake of something different like in the old days when a new plane, vehicle or graphic animation came along.
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Max, the problem I see with 9.95/mo is that it still turns off all those players out there that. They might drop a one time $19.99 or something. I've bought a ton of games for a one time purchase that it would have been VERY difficult for me to be talked into a subscription.
A one time game purchase seems to be working for MSFS 2020. FSX did pretty good with it too.
Sure you can make ingame purchases, but at least your not bound by a subscription.
Coogan
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I agree is losing ground, I have been saying it for some time now. Unfortunately Hitech seem reluctant to make ANY changes. Maybe he's afriad any change will finish off what he has now. Maybe he just doesnt want to be bothered with old grumps any more. Maybe he's busy working in a new field, who knows.
I'd love to see some changes just for the sake of something different like in the old days when a new plane, vehicle or graphic animation came along.
The problem I see with a new vehicle or plane is it will probably not change the revenue trajectory. A new obscure French fighter, while cool to 2 or 3 WWII nerds here, is not likely to bring in new players if the current line up doesn't already.
I'm fairly sure HT's 3D modeling and texturing skills are limited. So at the least he would have to hire contract work. That might be expensive to make no difference to the subscription count. It's also an expensive way to keep the current players happy as it appears skin packs are sufficient at least enough to prevent closing accounts. But bottom line, that's money spent that won't bring in new revenue.
The idea behind repurposing AHII, to in effect generate revenue from that written code a second time, is that should probably be the lowest hanging fruit. That code should just be laying around on an archive DVD somewhere. I'm not suggesting making any improvements to it so no 3D artist needed. Just some account management layer changes to make that a one time purchase instead of a monthly billing cycle for that particular sku. (Assuming he has labeled branches of his code and is not just working on the one and only copy of the code and can't reconstitute a previous version. I hope that is not how he ran his source control. I'd be shocked.)
Anything else meaningful would probably require a lot more work and anything meaningful would require gameplay changes to AHIII which I can understand is risky.
But there is also a risk in NOT doing something. If you are piloting a plane pointed toward the dirt side of the world and you just stay frozen and refuse to try anything....well that IS guaranteed to not work. At some point before you impact, you might want to take a risk and try SOME kind of movement of the control surfaces. Roll the dice or eject.
What if he threw AHII on Steam as a new sku for 19.99?
Could he sell 1000 units or so? Even for an indie game that is fairly conservative.
After Steams cut and taxes clear maybe 12k? (That's like getting 100 or so AHIII subscriptions for 6 months but you get it up front without the risk of them bailing after the first month.)
Could that get the remaining planes in AHIII update to current standard?
Enough left over for another plane?
Would that be 1000 or so players you are establishing a relationship with that might eventually be coaxed over to AHIII at some point? If you converted 1 out of 10, you have 100 new AHIII subscriptions.
Honestly, what other option could realistically bring in 100 new AHIII 6-month subscriptions anytime soon?
Honestly, is there a really better option on the table?
I mean, what are the other available options to TRUELY alter the revenue trajectory?
Will a new plane?
Will twiddle scoring algorithms?
Will a new skins pack?
Setting up tables at air shows and handing out t-shirts?
All the current players telling their friends about the game? Like they haven't already?
Most everything I've seen people suggest might make things nicer for them here in AHIII, but I've yet to see anything targeted at bringing in NEW players.
The biggest point of friction I see is not how players fly. I've seen all the same stuff since beta.
In my opinion it is the subscription model. For many people that is a deal breaker. (Hint: it's not 1999 any more.) It's going to take a lot more than a two-week-take-it-or-leave-it trial period. It's going to be a LOT harder sell than it was in 1999. They have too many other options. You are going to have to work a lot harder for that conversion. A one time buy with free online access looks a lot more like IL2 or DCS to them. Then maybe you'll have plenty of time to convince them that upgrading to AHIII is worth it.
An AHII server with new players would be a great place for the trainer corps to actually make a real difference. How much are they really making with the current AHIII player base? I've not seen two players in that arena in years. It may have happened now and then, but I missed it. An AHII server with 1000 new players would really be a place to get traction.
Also thing sunk-cost psychology. They download a two-week trial game for free, if anything gets in their way it is nothing to delete and go download one of the hundred other game demos on Steam. If they've already bought it, if they bail you already have their money, but also they have already sunk the cost so they have more incentive to take some more time to try and learn the game. They own it. They have all the time in the world to learn it.
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The problem I see with a new vehicle or plane is it will probably not change the revenue trajectory. A new obscure French fighter, while cool to 2 or 3 WWII nerds here, is not likely to bring in new players if the current line up doesn't already.
I'm fairly sure HT's 3D modeling and texturing skills are limited. So at the least he would have to hire contract work. That might be expensive to make no difference to the subscription count. It's also an expensive way to keep the current players happy as it appears skin packs are sufficient at least enough to prevent closing accounts. But bottom line, that's money spent that won't bring in new revenue.
The idea behind repurposing AHII, to in effect generate revenue from that written code a second time, is that should probably be the lowest hanging fruit. That code should just be laying around on an archive DVD somewhere. I'm not suggesting making any improvements to it so no 3D artist needed. Just some account management layer changes to make that a one time purchase instead of a monthly billing cycle for that particular sku. (Assuming he has labeled branches of his code and is not just working on the one and only copy of the code and can't reconstitute a previous version. I hope that is not how he ran his source control. I'd be shocked.)
Anything else meaningful would probably require a lot more work and anything meaningful would require gameplay changes to AHIII which I can understand is risky.
But there is also a risk in NOT doing something. If you are piloting a plane pointed toward the dirt side of the world and you just stay frozen and refuse to try anything....well that IS guaranteed to not work. At some point before you impact, you might want to take a risk and try SOME kind of movement of the control surfaces. Roll the dice or eject.
What if he threw AHII on Steam as a new sku for 19.99?
Could he sell 1000 units or so? Even for an indie game that is fairly conservative.
After Steams cut and taxes clear maybe 12k? (That's like getting 100 or so AHIII subscriptions for 6 months but you get it up front without the risk of them bailing after the first month.)
Could that get the remaining planes in AHIII update to current standard?
Enough left over for another plane?
Would that be 1000 or so players you are establishing a relationship with that might eventually be coaxed over to AHIII at some point? If you converted 1 out of 10, you have 100 new AHIII subscriptions.
Honestly, what other option could realistically bring in 100 new AHIII 6-month subscriptions anytime soon?
Honestly, is there a really better option on the table?
I mean, what are the other available options to TRUELY alter the revenue trajectory?
Will a new plane?
Will twiddle scoring algorithms?
Will a new skins pack?
Setting up tables at air shows and handing out t-shirts?
All the current players telling their friends about the game? Like they haven't already?
Most everything I've seen people suggest might make things nicer for them here in AHIII, but I've yet to see anything targeted at bringing in NEW players.
The biggest point of friction I see is not how players fly. I've seen all the same stuff since beta.
In my opinion it is the subscription model. For many people that is a deal breaker. (Hint: it's not 1999 any more.) It's going to take a lot more than a two-week-take-it-or-leave-it trial period. It's going to be a LOT harder sell than it was in 1999. They have too many other options. You are going to have to work a lot harder for that conversion. A one time buy with free online access looks a lot more like IL2 or DCS to them. Then maybe you'll have plenty of time to convince them that upgrading to AHIII is worth it.
An AHII server with new players would be a great place for the trainer corps to actually make a real difference. How much are they really making with the current AHIII player base? I've not seen two players in that arena in years. It may have happened now and then, but I missed it. An AHII server with 1000 new players would really be a place to get traction.
Also thing sunk-cost psychology. They download a two-week trial game for free, if anything gets in their way it is nothing to delete and go download one of the hundred other game demos on Steam. If they've already bought it, if they bail you already have their money, but also they have already sunk the cost so they have more incentive to take some more time to try and learn the game. They own it. They have all the time in the world to learn it.
I said "I'd love to see some changes just for the sake of something different". In the old days it was a new plane. I know that isnt going to happen these days which is why Id be happy with 60-70% of the trees disappearing, or the map rotation reset to exclude the big maps. I played in the days when we had very few maps and would be ok with 3 in rotation. And all of these are just for a selfish reason, for those of us that have been here forever to have a bit of a switch up.
To bring in new players, I dont think there is anything short of a huge influx of cash that could do that. Adding AH2 isnt going to bring in new players, at best it could bring in a few of the old timers. I think Hitechs best chance to bring in new blood is to open a set of planes and GVs that are free forever to be used in the MA. While a rebranding would be the best way to go ( a lot of bad blood for many with AH, many believe the "Free to Play" was a scam as it was really only 2 weeks free to play), maybe a "Under NEW Management" with a relaunch on Steam with the free plane/GV group as the update to entice new players to try it out. Add with that, pay a few of these Youtubers with a million followers to play the game for a few weeks and broadcast it.
However, all this takes time and money to put together. The real thing to look at here is Hitech willing to go that extra mile one more time?
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To bring in new players, I dont think there is anything short of a huge influx of cash that could do that. Adding AH2 isnt going to bring in new players, at best it could bring in a few of the old timers. I think Hitechs best chance to bring in new blood is to open a set of planes and GVs that are free forever to be used in the MA. While a rebranding would be the best way to go ( a lot of bad blood for many with AH, many believe the "Free to Play" was a scam as it was really only 2 weeks free to play), maybe a "Under NEW Management" with a relaunch on Steam with the free plane/GV group as the update to entice new players to try it out. Add with that, pay a few of these Youtubers with a million followers to play the game for a few weeks and broadcast it.
I would agree that would be another reasonable option to try and drive new traffic. I've suggested that before. But that is making changes to AHIII which seemed to be off the table for the "don't change anything....except the outcome" crowd.
Adding AHII would not have required changing AHIII in any way.
But either way...try SOMETHING.
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Free spit5s and 109fs would go a long way. I dong know why free H2H worked, but somehow free planes in the MA wouldn't. I believe it would very easily entice people to pay the subscription to fly a better plane. The free spit5 and 109f would not be super planes and no player could dominate with them. It would just give them a chance to play the game after a year years if they don't have 2 free weeks anymore. It would allow players to learn the MA before buying, it would create more fights in better planes and be no risk to anyone's fun as they know they are in inferior planes.
We've had this discussion before about bringing back AH2. While I was originally on board with it, it think. I dont think it would really bring that many peeps back. I recon you might have about 15-20 players in there max, and that would still be boring on huge maps.
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A free 109f might save me $15 a month :)
Everyone wants everything for free theses days..just a bunch of spoil brats really
Eagler
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A free 109f might save me $15 a month :)
Everyone wants everything for free theses days..just a bunch of spoil brats really
Eagler
That's what happens when you go from a quality economy where people don't care about spending more for better products. To a cheap economy, where everyone has to buy things as cheap as possible from a poor non regulated low tax country with almost slave labor so they can save a few dollars.
I can promise you that most players in a 109f or spitv wouldn't be top ace killers. They would be very challenging in today's arenas. It would just give people a longer chance to understand and learn the game. I think that is what is really missing. This would seriously entice people to pay for a subscription to get a better plane.
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We should be thankful HT hasn't tried to keep up with inflation
Some are happy spending $1.99 20 times a month in their game than paying say a monthly fee of $15 as it "feels" less expensive
To me $15 is worth logging on nightly at 8pm est to see about 100 others looking for action
No other ww2 a2a server anywhere has that action as I have looked
Eagler
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We've had this discussion before about bringing back AH2. While I was originally on board with it, it think. I dont think it would really bring that many peeps back. I recon you might have about 15-20 players in there max, and that would still be boring on huge maps.
AHII had some smaller maps carried over from AHI, didn't they?
Regardless, maps can be player-made content so that is easily fixable without HT, as the single developer, being a choke-point. If that were the only issue, I or other map creators could create some AHII 64x64 and 128x128 maps while HT is setting up the server and billing code changes.
A 64x64 map would be a fairly easy task. I'd volunteer to help with that if it were the only road block. I'm willing to put some sweat where my mouth is. I'd commit to making at least two 64x64 AHII maps if HT wanted to give it a try. There are a couple of good map builders here. If each did one map, we could easily get at least 4 64x64 AHII maps made. That would be enough to start with.
There is no reason it has to be an either-or. You could try an AHII server and a set of limited free planes in AHIII. Maybe that combination will create good synergy.
The problem is this community has a terminal case of intellectual constipation. No plan is perfect and no idea doesn't have a flaw or a drawback. So the negative neighbobs stew in their learned helplessness and say "that won't work"..."no point in trying that" ... "that won't make a difference"... to succeed you eventually have to be willing to take chances in life. Not everything succeeds but learned helplessness not only is guaranteed to fail, but is a rotten way to live. Fortune favors the bold.
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The problem is this community has a terminal case of intellectual constipation. No plan is perfect and no idea doesn't have a flaw or a drawback. So the negative neighbobs stew in their learned helplessness and say "that won't work"..."no point in trying that" ... "that won't make a difference"... to succeed you eventually have to be willing to take chances in life. Not everything succeeds but learned helplessness not only is guaranteed to fail, but is a rotten way to live. Fortune favors the bold.
Yes, many, many is the time we've seen him say, "Well, I think it's a good idea but a half dozen people on the forum said it isn't, so I'm not going to do it." He's still the only guy you have to convince.
Personally I think the outcome would be somewhere in the vicinity of most of the GVers/mixed players would go to AHII and most of the plane people would stay in AHIII. That might fix a lot of the "Wirbs suck! GV bombers suck!" whining. It might also give people a more accurate picture of the number of people who are actually in the arena doing something they might want to be a part of.
All for the cost of a new server and some rebranding.
Or, if we want something that would actually work and bring in a bunch of new people, go F2P/one time purchase and revamp the gameplay entirely to be more inline with what people expect in a modern game. This is just another form of hospice.
Wiley.
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Half of my squad left, not because of the money, and not because of any plane type, Aces High II or III.
When we played during Euro TZ, the numbers in Melee Arena was becoming below acceptable, and the big maps that stayed for a week did kill the fun.
Some players in my squad flew higher ENY planes with less than stellar performance, the AWACS radar rendered them close to useless, they could not hide even behind a huge mountain, and could be intercepted by radar vectoring.
Even in dogfights when someone lost SA they could regain it - by looking at radar alone.
The scenarios was the main reason I stayed on much longer than I would have done, but the Melee Arena was not for me anymore.
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Some players in my squad flew higher ENY planes with less than stellar performance, the AWACS radar rendered them close to useless, they could not hide even behind a huge mountain, and could be intercepted by radar vectoring.
Even in dogfights when someone lost SA they could regain it - by looking at radar alone.
To me as a solo flyer, the tail warning radar and AWACS is the biggest of several gripes I have with the current AH. When goon hunting, I didn't even need to look for it, just had to fly in circles with my map open. Trying to sneak up unto an enemy Jabo raid from their low 6? No chance, someone will have the map up. Or even better, some friends in the tower 200 miles away will spot you, because you show up on their map too, no matter what! Flying a plane with a bad rear view? No problem, there's the map.
Your TBM will show up as a bomber, as does the single Mossie I spotted at a distance too far away for visual identification.
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Maps should have a time out..so many hours and no winner, whoever is ahead wins and next map is swapped in
Eagler
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Maps should have a time out..so many hours and no winner, whoever is ahead wins and next map is swapped in
They do have one.
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Then it should be shortened IMO
Eagler
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To me as a solo flyer, the tail warning radar and AWACS is the biggest of several gripes I have with the current AH. When goon hunting, I didn't even need to look for it, just had to fly in circles with my map open. Trying to sneak up unto an enemy Jabo raid from their low 6? No chance, someone will have the map up. Or even better, some friends in the tower 200 miles away will spot you, because you show up on their map too, no matter what! Flying a plane with a bad rear view? No problem, there's the map.
Your TBM will show up as a bomber, as does the single Mossie I spotted at a distance too far away for visual identification.
This is my issue with the current radar as well. Once you are spotted, it's over, they will b-line it right to you.
I don't understand why Hitech decided to change the whole thing rather than just make the radar harder to take down at bases like I've said time and time again. You could turn it up to 2500 pounds or 2000 pounds to take out a radar. This would have been a very simple yet effective solution. It would have kept the dot dar up a lot longer which was the real issue.
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The change to the "AWACS Radar" was made because many people complained they could not find an enemy to fight with.
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The change to the "AWACS Radar" was made because many people complained they could not find an enemy to fight with.
Back to maps being too large and action too spread out for the current numbers of subscribers
Eagler
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The change to the "AWACS Radar" was made because many people complained they could not find an enemy to fight with.
True. And it has admirably served that goal.
- oldman
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The change to the "AWACS Radar" was made because many people complained they could not find an enemy to fight with.
Back to maps being too large and action too spread out for the current numbers of subscribers
Eagler
Both true, but again, that's because the first thing every noob does when they attack a base is shoot the radar down to prevent the dot dar. All it needed was to be strengthend to 2000 pounds and it would have stayed up longer most of the time
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Went to find the old joystick today. Itching to fly again, it has been a long time- too long.
V2 did look old. However, did that affect the playability of the game?
I argue that V3 caused more latency than V2 and this made the game unplayable for most outside the USofA.
Granted, the V2 maps badly needed updating. However, the V3 maps were dreadful!
Why was AA added between bases? To look after GVs I suppose? All well and good but it put a stop to a lot of great dog fighting because the AA would get you long before your opponent did.
I so, so miss flying and I have to admit that I did enjoy some of the tank battles. Wouldn't it be nice to have arenas that are pure GV and pure flying?
What I noticed most about V2 was that player feedback was largely ignored or never asked for. There seemed to be suprise among game staff that anyone could possibly be upset about this new gem and this could have been avoided if player feedback had been taken into consideration.
The main problem with V2 maps was that they were way, way too big. IIRC they were designed for 300 players at a time. It took far too long to get engaged in a fight and that made it boring.
What I enjoyed SO much back in the day was :-
1. the furballs
2. the one on one dogfights
3. joint GV / air base takes
What I feel the game also needs is marketing and bringing up to date.
1. This website looks like something out of the 90s.
2. No one in gaming is using a forum like this anymore. Discord specifically designed for gamers and is sooo much better!
3. I can't remember EVER seeing an advert for this game anywhere.
Hitech.
You have to stop taking criticism personally and recognise that your players, your customers, are the people who will champion you to other gamers.
Players and Hitech have to find a way to work as a team to create something that everyone is happy with.
There was a lot of talk in the game about realism. Well that's all well and good, but what it has to be first and foremost is FUN and oh my god I miss that!
There was a lot of unnecessary toxicity between players in the arenas. There is no need for chat between each side in a battle, it just gets nasty.
New players were used for target practise and got driven out of the game.
AH_Pandora
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Went to find the old joystick today. Itching to fly again, it has been a long time- too long.
Dude!
Get back here. Please.
- oldman
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Went to find the old joystick today. Itching to fly again, it has been a long time- too long.
V2 did look old. However, did that affect the playability of the game?
I argue that V3 caused more latency than V2 and this made the game unplayable for most outside the USofA.
Granted, the V2 maps badly needed updating. However, the V3 maps were dreadful!
Why was AA added between bases? To look after GVs I suppose? All well and good but it put a stop to a lot of great dog fighting because the AA would get you long before your opponent did.
I so, so miss flying and I have to admit that I did enjoy some of the tank battles. Wouldn't it be nice to have arenas that are pure GV and pure flying?
What I noticed most about V2 was that player feedback was largely ignored or never asked for. There seemed to be suprise among game staff that anyone could possibly be upset about this new gem and this could have been avoided if player feedback had been taken into consideration.
The main problem with V2 maps was that they were way, way too big. IIRC they were designed for 300 players at a time. It took far too long to get engaged in a fight and that made it boring.
What I enjoyed SO much back in the day was :-
1. the furballs
2. the one on one dogfights
3. joint GV / air base takes
What I feel the game also needs is marketing and bringing up to date.
1. This website looks like something out of the 90s.
2. No one in gaming is using a forum like this anymore. Discord specifically designed for gamers and is sooo much better!
3. I can't remember EVER seeing an advert for this game anywhere.
Hitech.
You have to stop taking criticism personally and recognise that your players, your customers, are the people who will champion you to other gamers.
Players and Hitech have to find a way to work as a team to create something that everyone is happy with.
There was a lot of talk in the game about realism. Well that's all well and good, but what it has to be first and foremost is FUN and oh my god I miss that!
There was a lot of unnecessary toxicity between players in the arenas. There is no need for chat between each side in a battle, it just gets nasty.
New players were used for target practise and got driven out of the game.
AH_Pandora
hey pandora hope to see you in the game.
semp
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V2 did look old. However, did that affect the playability of the game?
I argue that V3 caused more latency than V2 and this made the game unplayable for most outside the USofA.
The playability has never been a problem, especially not when it comes to air-to-air fights. Outdated graphics has been the pet peeve for many who've tried to explain why the player count isn't as high as it used to be. That argument became even more prominent after the release of V3.
The release of V3 has not affected the latency by any means, since I started AH1 the ping has been about 180 ms and the variance in delay has been steady at the zero line. There's been occasional issues with the overseas connections which could easily be explained: Back in AH1 the British and Central European banks sent their data at about 9 PM for about an hour, using most of the capacity. Later the main resource hog has been Level3 and their contracts with big names like Netflix. A new series, some sport events or the election of the President of the USA can fill the undersea cable. Storms between New York and Texas affect us too but those affect the US players as well. The increased graphics requirements have nothing to do with latency as the data sent hasn't actually changed: Where the planes are, what are their directions and speed. Those are pretty simple lightweight numbers in a simple chart. The graphics happen on each one's own computer.