Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: chris3 on March 03, 2022, 01:31:02 AM
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hi
i went into wwi Arena yesterday and notice there are some ais fliing nice around and do have some fights.
thats awesome. i hope something like that is planed in mainarena too. maybe some b17 formations starting every houer to enemy strat and maybe some 410 patroling the skys arond the strat.... so if you cant find a fight you new were you find some stuff to engage. and if you new wer thay start you can trail them with your own b17 there are alot of nice options and you do not need much ais to ad some new aspetc to the game.
expezialy if some new guys show up... its important the game is not boring... and my first thought in wwI was just wow whats going on here.
by the way the ai is prety godd give gives me some nice furbals.
what you guys think?
cu christian
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I like the idea myself.
Not sure how difficult the coding would be for HiTech to implement, though.
Lots of variations that could be tried out, each meant to enhance gameplay.
You could have a fighter CAP up for each airfield, two to four aircraft per CAP, stagger their altitudes, but make them "historically accurate" patrol altitudes.
You could code in a scramble defense for each airfield, where a defense force of equal numbers of defenders scrambled to meet the attacking force.
Same with GV's: Once the attacker spawns in, defending GV's spawn to go meet them and do battle, or spawn in from a neighboring base if their spawn point
is near the attackers' spawn point.
Just a few rough ideas, none of them perfect.
Your idea is sure to face opposition from players who say they don't want to fight AI, they want to fight real players, but in the game you see every day the
same players attacking undefended bases, so it all evens out in my view.
Kudos on the thought process, chris. Another way to ensure combat in the arenas, which is sorely needed with the lower player base and the large maps.
:aok
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With the large maps and lower numbers I have advocated for AI to fill in and add to the gameplay ..
Many here don't like the idea ...maybe they don't want to be an AI kill :)
Eagler
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The first time I played Air Warrior with and against other human players, was the last time I was interested in playing AI games.
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With the large maps and lower numbers I have advocated for AI to fill in and add to the gameplay ..
Many here don't like the idea ...maybe they don't want to be an AI kill :)
Eagler
Having AI recon aircraft and more plentiful ground targets would allow the brand news players to cut their teeth instead of getting clobbered by those of us who’ve been playing for years. I mean we’ll still get clobbered but atleast we’d have something to shoot at ourselves.
I always felt MA access should be free to play with a very limited plane set (F4F or rides of the sort). Maybe even introduce War onlines “War cash” to purchase access to specific planes and Skins as an alternative to the subscription. Anything to bring numbers back up. A UI overhaul is also desperately needed. I keep trying to get buddies of mine into this game and at somepoint they all tell me “It looks like this game was made in the 90s” and they arent talking about in game graphics either.
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Having AI recon aircraft and more plentiful ground targets would allow the brand news players to cut their teeth instead of getting clobbered by those of us who’ve been playing for years. I mean we’ll still get clobbered but atleast we’d have something to shoot at ourselves.
I always felt MA access should be free to play with a very limited plane set (F4F or rides of the sort). Maybe even introduce War onlines “War cash” to purchase access to specific planes and Skins as an alternative to the subscription. Anything to bring numbers back up. A UI overhaul is also desperately needed. I keep trying to get buddies of mine into this game and at somepoint they all tell me “It looks like this game was made in the 90s” and they arent talking about in game graphics either.
AI in the main arena will most likely never happen. Folks go there to fight other real folks.
As for new folks fighting AI...... as long as they tune down the AI, it may be ok.
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As for new folks fighting AI...... as long as they tune down the AI, it may be ok.
Perhaps the AI aircraft can be non-combatants like reconnaissance aircraft or goon resupplies. Something for the new sticks to sink their teeth into. I always wondered why there aren't many train or truck convoys(I know there are trucks and trains you can kill on some maps) worth hitting in the game. Alot of the air combat in WWII involved disrupting your oppositions logistics.
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Might help people that get sick of shooting buildings. These AI bomber formations would probably help stir up a fight depending on the map. Guys might show up to escort, or kill buffs, and fight it out as an alternative to getting vulched by a horde
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hi
i still think it would be a cool meatin point in the game to finde some combat..... if there is a large bomber formation there will be guys wich will defent and attack it.... the ai system could be use to generat more combat beside the fields.
cu christian
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There is a arena with just that... AI.
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Not the same thing...
There is a room now where you can fly the AI planes into the side of the mountains or into the sea..not much fum IMO
We are talking about missions to defend from or join
Eagler
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AI planes you can hop into mid flight for instant action
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They should adjust the current AI room so not to mess up the others.
Hmm I wonder if AI can make margaritas.
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It can be programmed to run to ack and we wouldn't be able to tell the real pilots from AI then...
Eagler
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It can be programmed to run to ack and we wouldn't be able to tell the real pilots from AI then...
Eagler
DOH!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Have them post crap on 200 :aok
Your Mom smelled of elderberries lol things like that.
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A lot of customers have asked for AI to be added to the main arena over the last 22 years, it never happened, I doubt it ever will now.
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A lot of customers have asked for AI to be added to the main arena over the last 22 years, it never happened, I doubt it ever will now.
To be fair, an equal number of customers have said that they would quit AH if AI was added to the MA.
I have no personal preference, because I'm almost always able to find a fight, but I don't think there is a consensus on this.
- oldman
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I'm with Kong, if i wanted to fly against AI i'd fly Il2 or something.
But we do need more targets. Something i think would help - ability for you to fly more then 1 plane at the time.
So you spawn B17 group, roll it, set it on autoclimb. Then you get out of it - it keeps flying. You spawn P51 and take off to fly your own cover.
You can "switch" in and out of those two groups as you see fit.
If you're not in a given plane at the moment - it flies on the autopilot to its target.
If we wanted to get really fancy, you could have ability to "give to other players" your currently flying aircraft. This way couple of players could have a wave after wave of aircraft in the air with very limited "climbout/return" time and constant action over the target.
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Have AI B-24s, with AI gunners, outfitted to fly low level resupply missions to damaged bases as part of supply system.
Similar to Operation CARPETBAGGER missions during WW2.
https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195994/operation-carpetbagger/ (https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195994/operation-carpetbagger/)
The CARPETBAGGER B-24s could be available to players to resupply, or drop "Joes" out the "Joe Hole" to capture bases.
A cargo hatch, called the "Joe Hole," replaced the B-24's ball-turret, and parachutists, called "Joes," dropped through it.
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I'm with Kong, if i wanted to fly against AI i'd fly Il2 or something.
But we do need more targets. Something i think would help - ability for you to fly more then 1 plane at the time.
So you spawn B17 group, roll it, set it on autoclimb. Then you get out of it - it keeps flying. You spawn P51 and take off to fly your own cover.
You can "switch" in and out of those two groups as you see fit.
If you're not in a given plane at the moment - it flies on the autopilot to its target.
If we wanted to get really fancy, you could have ability to "give to other players" your currently flying aircraft. This way couple of players could have a wave after wave of aircraft in the air with very limited "climbout/return" time and constant action over the target.
You say you don't want to fly against AI planes but you want AI to fly your extra planes so you can jump in and out of them :)
We need AI to fill in the action the low numbers of players are providing today since we can't get the map list edited to remove the slow maps..
But since we can't a map list edited, I don't think we should expect a huge coding change as would be required to add AI
But it's therapy at this point that we keep talking about game change enhancements lol
Eagler
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there is no difference between my bomber group flying unattended while i'm flying a Ki84 somewhere and my bomber group flying unattended while i'm on the potty :)
Will get shot down just the same :) I'm not advocating for AI gunners by any means. death to Otto !!!
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there is no difference between my bomber group flying unattended while i'm flying a Ki84 somewhere and my bomber group flying unattended while i'm on the potty :)
Will get shot down just the same :) I'm not advocating for AI gunners by any means. death to Otto !!!
Actually when you go auto pilot in a bmbr maybe the gunners should go ai and offer some sort of defense..
After all the bmbr has a crew of more than one
Eagler
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Actually when you go auto pilot in a bmbr maybe the gunners should go ai and offer some sort of defense..
After all the bmbr has a crew of more than one
Eagler
+1
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Air Warrior had AI goons running supplies. For me it was disappointing to come across one and shoot it down and all you got was less ammo onboard.
AI isnt the answer for anything other than relieving the boredom on climb out. HTC War Online: Pacific had all the AI you wanted and nobody plays that game.
No the biggest issues in the game are the lack of numbers due mostly because WWII air combat isnt the most popular game out there, and the long learning curve. New players dont have enough intret in history to stick it out to get better.
If your bored because the numbers are so low when you log in, there are some AI missions you can run, I think they still work. Plenty of AI there.
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No the biggest issues in the game are the lack of numbers due mostly because WWII air combat isnt the most popular game out there,
And yet IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
and the long learning curve.
And yet DCS and IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
New players dont have enough intret in history to stick it out to get better.
And yet IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
Whatever AH's problem are, it's time to stop using the crutches of "Nobody has an interest in WWII" or "This game is too complex for mere mortals."
However, I understand players like Kong's concerns about AI in the Melee.
Maybe a compromise would be to have an "AI Town" area in the Melee where someone can go and plink at AI while still being able to stay in the Melee arena. You would have to go there intentionally so if that doesn't appeal, then don't go there.
It might keep someone in the Melee a little longer when things are dead, so they can be there to get a heads up if a fight develops somewhere or someone starts a mission. As opposed to leaving the arena completely and going to Match Play. Also keeps the arena count up so someone browsing sees warm bodies in the arena list. But Kong won't run into one unless he specifically spawns there. There wouldn't be base there. It doesn't effect map win. Stats against AI don't register. AI can be coded to not stray out of zone. Maybe every base has a "Spawn AI Zone" button (like a remote GV spawn location). It's situated way off in a corner away from everything.
$0.02.
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EVERY TIME I log on the FIRST thing I do is ask on country radio is "Where is the fight ??"
Nine times out of ten the answer is crickets...
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And yet IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
And yet DCS and IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
And yet IL2 sells millions of copies yearly.
Whatever AH's problem are, it's time to stop using the crutches of "Nobody has an interest in WWII" or "This game is too complex for mere mortals."
However, I understand players like Kong's concerns about AI in the Melee.
Maybe a compromise would be to have an "AI Town" area in the Melee where someone can go and plink at AI while still being able to stay in the Melee arena. You would have to go there intentionally so if that doesn't appeal, then don't go there.
It might keep someone in the Melee a little longer when things are dead, so they can be there to get a heads up if a fight develops somewhere or someone starts a mission. As opposed to leaving the arena completely and going to Match Play. Also keeps the arena count up so someone browsing sees warm bodies in the arena list. But Kong won't run into one unless he specifically spawns there. There wouldn't be base there. It doesn't effect map win. Stats against AI don't register. AI can be coded to not stray out of zone. Maybe every base has a "Spawn AI Zone" button (like a remote GV spawn location). It's situated way off in a corner away from everything.
$0.02.
How many servers have 100s of players? How come all the videos I watch of DCS and IL2 are bore fest of a guy flying around for an hour looking for a single plane to go up against.
They may be selling "millions of copies" but nobody seems to be playing them.
You spend time in DCS, and IL2 right? Ask those players.....if you run into any.... why they dont try AH. Ask them why those guys dont have hundreds of players playing on a server each night. My guess it the same reason we do, too big a learning curve, not enough fights. Of the millions of gamers on services like steam and such what type of games are they playing? Not flight sims. Id bet most collage kids these days couldnt tell you who was axis and who was allies during WWII. It just isnt a mainstream theme.
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I own both il2 and dcs. Haven't touched either in almost a year.
I don't think number of Il2 copies sold should be compared with AH subscription. Those two games are two very different bowls of wax. But cuter graphics would be nice.. :)
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I own both il2 and dcs. Haven't touched either in almost a year.
I don't think number of Il2 copies sold should be compared with AH subscription. Those two games are two very different bowls of wax. But cuter graphics would be nice.. :)
FD,
I think you miss my point. I'm not suggesting IL2 or DCS are direct replacements for AH.
My point is assertions that no one likes game based on WWII is not supported by evidence. I.e. the millions of copies of IL2 sold suggest that is a false assertion.
My point is, that AH is so complex, that no one will bother to take the time to learn it, seems to be an excuse. Both IL2 and DCS have plenty of complexity, if not more. If a game is appealing, there is no shortage of players who will dedicate any amount of time and effort into mastering it. DCS is not a stranger to complexity and skills based mastery. IL2 is not World of Warplanes.
My point is falling back on those two comforting tropes is false logic and avoids having to look at the real issues. Those may be contributing factor in some cases, but are not AH's core problem. Other WWII games, and other complex high-skill games have done quite well.
Yes, they are different in other ways, but skill challenge and WWII theme is not what is holding AH back. If people feel more comfortable believing that, well, OK then. Good luck with that.
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To revisit the OP's topic, I still think adding AI defenses would help the game.
I read other's viewpoints about not wanting to fight against AI, they want to go up against human players. I get that, completely.
But what is espoused here on the BBS and what takes place daily in the arena are complete opposites: In the arena, some players are all
about base taking and the war effort. I have nothing whatsoever against those players, it's just not my "thing".
In order to achieve their base captures, time and time again you see isolated and undefended bases being the ones attacked and captured. Once in a while,
enough people see the base flashing, or enough people sound the alarm, and a decent human defense is mounted.
What I see most of the time is a base flashing, usually a GV there (some people have no problem locating them, I have to get down low and search to find them),
followed by sets of fighters and bombers.......before you know it the town is prepped, and while you are trying to deal with the air threat, the base gets captured...
or, you try to deal with the GV's and have to try and locate them while dodging fighters. Hard to do with one or two defenders, if not impossible.
My opinion only, is if players REALLY wanted to face human players, they would go after bases that they know they will have to fight for, not the nearest undefended
target. But from seeing how people really play, it's all about achieving the base capture at minimal expense.
Adding AI defenders might make base defense worth attempting, at least for me. The way the game is setup right now, if I see a base flashing with a GV dar closeby,
and see multiple cons inbound, I land or bail and go elsewhere. I don't mind getting shot down. I do mind wasting my time in a futile defense. I refuse to pad others' kill
stats because they would rather take the path of least resistance than go after a well defended target and have to fight their way in and risk failure.
This is just a game to me. I log in to have fun, which might mean getting in a turret on a cruiser or battleship and engaging an enemy fleet, going on a lone wolf patrol,
perhaps even getting in a buff and seeing if I can hit anything.
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There's games where they add AI players if there's not enough humans to fill the arena.
I guess a certain percentage of AI players with various skill sets and not too obvious names wouldn't harm.
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There's games where they add AI players if there's not enough humans to fill the arena.
I guess a certain percentage of AI players with various skill sets and not too obvious names wouldn't harm.
Pretty much what I've advocated for in past threads: Certain percentage of AI players, decreasing proportionally as human players enter the area or zone. Increasing as human players leave the area.
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Well if oboe can't get a map added to the ma rotation I doubt any new coding changes are going to happen...sadly
Eagler
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I have ran plenty of AI missions in the SEA.
As of now, I only use them for bomber missions, Because I feel like AI fighters are not the road we should be going down, at least in special events.
To me, the AI offers new objectives for event designers. AI offers historically sized bomber formations, that travel at historical speeds - without the warping and lagging of human trios.
And as the numbers decline, It also allows humans to avoid flying bombers they may not like to fly in events.
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Don't fly in DCS but in IL2 they use AI online in certain setups. Mostly flights of bombers to attack or defend. Same with C-47s and JU-52s dropping supplies or paratroopers. There's a mission planner I haven't messed with that's a pretty powerful tool to make setups you can use either offline or online as a co-op mission where you and some buds can attack a target or area and the AI defend. Lots of them to download on their forums. Good for practice. At ace level the NME AI there can be pretty tough! Bomber gunners make ours look like amateurs. Deadly. Trains are even worse! The friendly AI, no matter the setting, are next to useless tho IMO. If you're the leader you can control what they do somewhat. Order them to attack a ground or air target--they might. But usually just fly around. Really annoying if you could use a clear!
In short I don't think any sim like ours has the whole AI thing down. I'd rather fly against real peeps anyway. Hundreds like the old days would be just great!
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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Does anybody ever suggest AI tanks or GVs? IIRC Microsoft Fighter Ace had AI ground units, which would spawn and advance toward a target objective in response to a friendly air attack on the objective?
I wonder if coding an AI tank subroutine is more difficult than an airplane - the driver would need to avoid so many trees.
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Does anybody ever suggest AI tanks or GVs? IIRC Microsoft Fighter Ace had AI ground units, which would spawn and advance toward a target objective in response to a friendly air attack on the objective?
I wonder if coding an AI tank subroutine is more difficult than an airplane - the driver would need to avoid so many trees.
Hmmm you got me to thinking. I do not remember any AI. My memory back that far is like a steel trap though..... rusted shut. LOL
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Hmmm you got me to thinking. I do not remember any AI. My memory back that far is like a steel trap though..... rusted shut. LOL
LOL, I think I only dabbled in FA, but I thought I remembered reading that if you mounted an air attack against an objective, AI ground units would spawn and attack the objective as well. I thought that was a clever use of AI.
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LOL, I think I only dabbled in FA, but I thought I remembered reading that if you mounted an air attack against an objective, AI ground units would spawn and attack the objective as well. I thought that was a clever use of AI.
I came here from FA. I played FA for quite some time. I do not remember that though.
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From CombatSim.com's 1999 review of Fighter Ace II, here: https://www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=606 (https://www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=606)
FAII sports the same basic "furballs R us" online arenas as its predecessor, plus one great new addition: the Territorial Combat arena. In this arena, ground acquisition is the goal.
Each country has limited resources, based on ground installations held (and not destroyed), referred to as "scenes". AI controlled tanks roll across the landscape to attack or defend scenes, triggered by the players' air to mud attacks.
Tanks are the only ground vehicles active in the beta, but trains are trucks are scheduled to be added later.
Guess it was implemented in one of the arena's, not all.
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The TC (Territorial Combat) arena spawned a column of AI tanks from the nearest factory once a field was triggered. They needed to be killed before they arrived to the field or it would be captured. You could also destroy tank factories IIRC, causing them to have to drive farther to capture giving you more time to kill the tanks.
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Does anybody ever suggest AI tanks or GVs? IIRC Microsoft Fighter Ace had AI ground units, which would spawn and advance toward a target objective in response to a friendly air attack on the objective?
I wonder if coding an AI tank subroutine is more difficult than an airplane - the driver would need to avoid so many trees.
I don't believe it's possible with the current system.
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From CombatSim.com's 1999 review of Fighter Ace II, here: https://www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=606 (https://www.combatsim.com/review.php?id=606)
Guess it was implemented in one of the arena's, not all.
Ahh this may be after I left FA.