Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 03:31:31 AM

Title: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 03:31:31 AM
I have endeavoured to abide by the forum rules; pertinantly Rule 14, and interpreting the meaning of politics to especially mean the debate between parties having power. I'm not interested in that and I give my word this is not some elaborate troll or my usual sarcastic observation but a genuine question:

What do Amercians mean by the term 'liberal'?

Usually when I endeavour on a new study programme, definitions are readily available and specific. I am not able to find an accurate / objective definition for this term, apprently being highly-charged, in this domain a uniquely a US-dialect and also in a dynamic state making previous definitions someone inapplicable.

Can someone give me a simple answer? Preferably before Monday morning in Texas when the Dale-God-Entity strikes me down with a locked thread leaving only a pair of empty, smoking Reeboks.  :rofl



Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Eagler on April 16, 2022, 06:11:32 AM
In America it has become to mean anything not conservative

And sadly anything conservative is despised by the liberal side and vise versa

They are the extremes they try to push the  majority of us in the middle into to separate us

Eagler
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 06:44:31 AM
Thank you that seems to clarify some other terms.

I was a bit confused because it seems libertarianism and liberalism probably stemmed from the same root but they appear to be in opposition. Now.  :headscratch:

I am now watching Fox Business news.  :banana:
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Nefarious on April 16, 2022, 08:27:13 AM
I was a bit confused because it seems libertarianism and liberalism probably stemmed from the same root but they appear to be in opposition. Now.  :headscratch:

Classical Liberalism is more in line with Libertarianism than modern day Liberalism.

Somewhere along the way, the terms Conservative and Liberal have been muddled into a linear left/right spectrum.

I try to avoid using the terms, and much prefer the Authoritarian - Libertarian spectrum.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Spikes on April 16, 2022, 08:28:56 AM
I have endeavoured to abide by the forum rules; pertinantly Rule 14, and interpreting the meaning of politics to especially mean the debate between parties having power. I'm not interested in that and I give my word this is not some elaborate troll or my usual sarcastic observation but a genuine question:

What do Amercians mean by the term 'liberal'?

Usually when I endeavour on a new study programme, definitions are readily available and specific. I am not able to find an accurate / objective definition for this term, apprently being highly-charged, in this domain a uniquely a US-dialect and also in a dynamic state making previous definitions someone inapplicable.

Can someone give me a simple answer? Preferably before Monday morning in Texas when the Dale-God-Entity strikes me down with a locked thread leaving only a pair of empty, smoking Reeboks.  :rofl





Why not just google it?
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 16, 2022, 08:34:18 AM
I don't think you can define either one, until you define what True individual freedom means, as it relates to the 2 philosophy's.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 16, 2022, 08:34:18 AM
Liberal these days is most commonly associated with someone who wants change towards a direction.  That direction is Authoritarianism these days.  A Conservative is someone who thinks those changes are not good.   

Back 50 years ago Liberals wanted some changes that would be more closely associated with Libertarianism but in reality the two names are not necessarily reflective of political intents.  They simply cross paths on occasion but have no direct correlation.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 08:51:33 AM
Why not just google it?

I wanted an Americo-centric definition  :old:


Classical Liberalism is more in line with Libertarianism than modern day Liberalism.

Somewhere along the way, the terms Conservative and Liberal have been muddled into a linear left/right spectrum.

Yes that is not well-documented or clarified. Could it be the spectrum is more an area on a plane that a position along a line? Or is it a Möbius strip  :headscratch:

Thanks so-far. Already helping.

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Eagler on April 16, 2022, 08:58:53 AM
One side will say the other has drifted out into its extreme but truth is both have moved out from center to both their extremes with most normal folks trying to be tolerant of those extremes as they are trying to be portrayed as the normal

Eagler
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Spikes on April 16, 2022, 09:02:24 AM
I wanted an Americo-centric definition  :old:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

That was hard.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Nefarious on April 16, 2022, 09:08:25 AM
Could it be the spectrum is more an area on a plane that a position along a line?

Yes, absolutely... take the test.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 16, 2022, 09:52:49 AM
One side will say the other has drifted out into its extreme but truth is both have moved out from center to both their extremes with most normal folks trying to be tolerant of those extremes as they are trying to be portrayed as the normal

Eagler

How has your average Conservative moved to the extremes?
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 11:42:53 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

That was hard.

I never thought to append '_in_the_United_States' to the end of the ordinary Wikipedia page  :rofl Actually there was a link there under 'modern liberalism' but I didn't read it thoroughly because it wasn't what I was looking for. Thanks for the help and sorry to put you to all that trouble  ;)

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: MiloMorai on April 16, 2022, 12:01:52 PM
How has your average Conservative moved to the extremes?
The RINOs aren't those like Cheney but those that kowtow to #45.like yourself. :D
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nopoop on April 16, 2022, 12:19:30 PM
I dont consider #45 extreme at all.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 16, 2022, 02:09:16 PM
I dont consider #45 extreme at all.

Milo is trolling the thread to get it shut down.  He brags about this stuff in other places.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: zack1234 on April 16, 2022, 02:19:08 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_in_the_United_States

That was hard.

Try reading a book

You people referring to wikidiot

“That was hard” the irony

What was the last book you read is like a red flag to a bull to the average American

They take pride in being illiterate….fact

You people cannot give ONE example of a book you have read…..fact

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 16, 2022, 02:22:28 PM
How has your average Conservative moved to the extremes?

'Average' is the wrong word. Extremist would be the correct one (and self-explanitory). :police:
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 16, 2022, 02:25:57 PM
Try reading a book

You people referring to wikidiot

“That was hard” the irony

What was the last book you read is like a red flag to a bull to the average American

They take pride in being illiterate….fact

You people cannot give ONE example of a book you have read…..fact

Give your own (that was more than 20 pages and without pictures).  :aok
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: MiloMorai on April 16, 2022, 03:11:00 PM
Milo is trolling the thread to get it shut down.  He brags about this stuff in other places.

Nope. Just not blind about your hero. :D It is not my fault that, either the ears are blocked so nothing enters or there is noting between the ears to stop the truth.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Spikes on April 16, 2022, 03:15:51 PM
Try reading a book

You people referring to wikidiot

“That was hard” the irony

What was the last book you read is like a red flag to a bull to the average American

They take pride in being illiterate….fact

You people cannot give ONE example of a book you have read…..fact


I actually just finished A Promised Land by Barack Obama. Next up is Where Men Win Glory by Jon Krakauer.

You know what happens when you assume...
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 03:29:26 PM
You people cannot give ONE example of a book you have read…..fact


(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=35333)

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Milo is trolling the thread to get it shut down.  He brags about this stuff in other places.

I think it's inevitable anyway. Everything can be made political even threads about political questions.  :banana:

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: SNO on April 16, 2022, 03:36:04 PM
Try reading a book

You people referring to wikidiot

“That was hard” the irony

What was the last book you read is like a red flag to a bull to the average American

They take pride in being illiterate….fact

You people cannot give ONE example of a book you have read…..fact


Cockalorum
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 16, 2022, 03:56:50 PM
I think it's inevitable anyway. Everything can be made political even threads about political questions.  :banana:

I don't have a problem with political discussions.  I'm simply letting others know he is a troll.  For example, he knows I'm hardly a fan of Trump yet he posts these trolls.  He also brags about trolling people here and other places.  So, just so you know not to waste your time engaging the toejam stain.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: MiloMorai on April 16, 2022, 04:18:12 PM
I don't have a problem with political discussions.  I'm simply letting others know he is a troll.  For example, he knows I'm hardly a fan of Trump yet he posts these trolls.  He also brags about trolling people here and other places.  So, just so you know not to waste your time engaging the toejam stain.
You lie as much as your hero. Produce these trolls you say I have done.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Volron on April 16, 2022, 04:46:30 PM
Give your own (that wasn't an entire book of pictures).  :aok

Fixed  :aok
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Busher on April 16, 2022, 05:12:28 PM
Yes, absolutely... take the test.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Wow, pretty cool assessment. My dot showed up dead center in the lower left box :uhoh.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: oboe on April 16, 2022, 05:29:18 PM

(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=404990.0;attach=35333)
:rofl

I recently finished Haper Lee's "Go Set a Watchman"; now I'm working through Donald Miller's "Masters of the Air", and "Ancient Rome: The Rise and Fall of an Empire" by Simon Baker. 
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: oboe on April 16, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
Wow, pretty cool assessment. My dot showed up dead center in the lower left box :uhoh.

Wouldn't worry.  You're in good company.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 16, 2022, 09:24:05 PM
Maybe Zack means read a book which challenges your beliefs and assumptions instead of ones that tend to confirm those you already have, as some of these so-far listed tend to imply?

Actually that is the motivation for my original question (me talking to myself): "What if you're interpreting this incorrectly ( / what if you're wrong)?

)'m presently busy with Linear Algebra which I need for a programming project and Marcus Aurelius - some of the passages of which really force you to 'take a moment in life' and are surprisingly relevant despite him bashing out his first draft on his MacBook 2000-years ago   :rofl

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 16, 2022, 10:38:04 PM
I'm sure there are a lot of interpretation as to what "liberal" means to each person, and I could probably write a book on it, however I'll give you my interpretation.

It's what ever the main stream media narrative (Intelligence agencies) tells them to think and do without any question or backlash. The current narrative is anti traditionalism along with using social engineering to manipulate culture to accept more government and social inclusion in everyone's lives. Their ideology does not jive with traditional conservatism because they need our involvement in order for their system and agenda to operate. And that is where the authoritarian part of their ideology begins. How much can we take from them and with what authority in order to build our beaurocracy bigger?
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: RotBaron on April 17, 2022, 03:26:47 AM
As already stated, the term liberal will be defined differently from one person to the next, probably even to the extent of disagreement on its definition by those who call themselves such. Same with the term conservative too.

Technically they really are not political at all, but rather sociological because they are about the viewpoints individuals have on issues in contemporary society. But as you noted nearly anything can be turned political.

Many use the term liberal as an insult and I”m sure conservative too. I think when it’s used that way those being labeled as such (most) view it as a badge of honor to be insulted this way. Hence you’ve already found it as you said “highly charged” and also “dynamic” as the term(s) seems to evolve over time.

One thing I’ve noticed is that many things considered liberal decades ago are now the conservative viewpoint. That’s where the term progressivism becomes relevant. 
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 17, 2022, 04:07:37 AM
Been a very interesting thread and the topic isn't nearly as obfuscated as some factions would have you believe (like many things).

I'm pretty sure the point where one system is proposed over another is the point where a discussion about politics becomes political. So I'm sure the thread will soon be locked. It's a shame really that discussion and exchange with a degree of listening is being generally displaced by combatitiveness with a degree of shouting instead, I think is the only mild observation I'd like to make.

I gave my word this wasn't trolling or an elaborate wheeze as is generally my predilection and so was it. I shall go further with my studies. Perhaps I'll have more advanced questions later. By-the-leave of the Dale-God-Entity.

 :salute   
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Shuffler on April 17, 2022, 08:20:59 AM
Maybe Zack means read a book which challenges your beliefs and assumptions instead of ones that tend to confirm those you already have, as some of these so-far listed tend to imply?

Actually that is the motivation for my original question (me talking to myself): "What if you're interpreting this incorrectly ( / what if you're wrong)?

)'m presently busy with Linear Algebra which I need for a programming project and Marcus Aurelius - some of the passages of which really force you to 'take a moment in life' and are surprisingly relevant despite him bashing out his first draft on his MacBook 2000-years ago   :rofl

The condition of our country in comparison to before is proof enough for many.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 09:22:01 AM
Make Amurica ______ again.  :old:
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 11:43:54 AM
the truth is you will never find an answer because there is none.

take for example violators reply. change a few words and then it becomes what is a conservative.

or Shuffler's about the condition of our country. a couple of years ago, around here beans,rice, toilet paper, meat, pork and some other staples were in short supply. now we have them but more expensive.  so what is better? to not have them or to have them at a higher price.

so the truth is liberals, conservatives, woke, cancel  culture, man,  woman are terms people like to use but nobody can define. hell we can't even agree on what is a barbq. in california is different than in the south.


semp

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 17, 2022, 12:09:35 PM
the truth is you will never find an answer because there is none.

take for example violators reply. change a few words and then it becomes what is a conservative.

or Shuffler's about the condition of our country. a couple of years ago, around here beans,rice, toilet paper, meat, pork and some other staples were in short supply. now we have them but more expensive.  so what is better? to not have them or to have them at a higher price.

so the truth is liberals, conservatives, woke, cancel  culture, man,  woman are terms people like to use but nobody can define. hell we can't even agree on what is a barbq. in california is different than in the south.
semp

It's easier to define terminology than it is to convince people to use it properly.  People with twisted minds twist terminology to their convenience instead of working with simple facts.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 12:10:42 PM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57d5e68244024343d19d09f4/1474139010093-RQBJ83F6NKPFIRQUF9IC/harlem_road_texas_bbq_ribs.jpg?format=2500w)
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 12:12:00 PM
It's easier to define terminology than it is to convince people to use it properly.  People with twisted minds twist terminology to their convenience instead of working with simple facts.

Or .... people claim others twist 'simple facts' when perspectives and philosophies clash.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 17, 2022, 12:16:09 PM
Or .... people claim others twist 'simple facts' when perspectives and philosophies clash.

And ... or.....  people claim others twist 'simple facts' when perspectives and philosophies clash.  In the end facts are facts, opinions are opinions.  Those who can't tell the difference can't accept simple facts.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 12:28:37 PM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57d5e68244024343d19d09f4/1474139010093-RQBJ83F6NKPFIRQUF9IC/harlem_road_texas_bbq_ribs.jpg?format=2500w)

around here is anything you put on a grill, heck you can even make carnitas and still call it a bbq.

semp
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 12:31:31 PM
And ... or.....  people claim others twist 'simple facts' when perspectives and philosophies clash.  In the end facts are facts, opinions are opinions.  Those who can't tell the difference can't accept simple facts.

facts are facts.  but facts are based on who believes them.

semp
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 12:35:20 PM
And ... or.....  people claim others twist 'simple facts' when perspectives and philosophies clash.  In the end facts are facts, opinions are opinions.  Those who can't tell the difference can't accept simple facts.

Simple is indeed a key word there.  :cool:

Your opinions aren't 'facts' to everyone.  :aok
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 12:37:16 PM
around here is anything you put on a grill, heck you can even make carnitas and still call it a bbq.

semp

If you start putting bananas on a grill, warn me first.  :O
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
If you start putting bananas on a grill, warn me first.  :O

naw for those I use a pan on the grill. some olive oil, apples and grapes. best sugar salad you ever had.

semp
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 17, 2022, 01:05:38 PM
I like the way this thread has mutated from politics into BBQ. Normally it's the other way around  :old: :rofl

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 01:49:16 PM
I like the way this thread has mutated from politics into BBQ. Normally it's the other way around  :old: :rofl

well it's about trying to define things.  bbq is a perfect example.



semp
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Oldman731 on April 17, 2022, 02:05:16 PM
And given today's date, let's just throw this in for Zack's benefit:

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.

- oldman
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 02:16:47 PM
And given today's date, let's just throw this in for Zack's benefit:

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.

- oldman

that doesn't rhyme.

we kicked you azzz,
you still bitter.

I think that's better.


semp
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 17, 2022, 03:33:04 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AggressiveUnfortunateCardinal.webp)
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: rabbidrabbit on April 17, 2022, 04:21:58 PM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AggressiveUnfortunateCardinal.webp)

That was a great documentary
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: knorB on April 17, 2022, 05:10:43 PM
It's easier to define terminology than it is to convince people to use it properly.  People with twisted minds twist terminology to their convenience instead of working with simple facts.

What is the definition of is?
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: DmonSlyr on April 17, 2022, 07:27:41 PM
Speaking of BBQ. I just grilled my first rack of lamb today with some African peri peri rub on my green egg. Let me tell you what. I've been nervous about cooking lamb but this turned out to be the best lamb I've ever had. Should have taken a picture.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 07:41:37 PM
Speaking of BBQ. I just grilled my first rack of lamb today with some African peri peri rub on my green egg. Let me tell you what. I've been nervous about cooking lamb but this turned out to be the best lamb I've ever had. Should have taken a picture.

how can you cook in a grill?  did you have pudding after?, you gotta have pudding when you eat your meat.  :D

lamb is one of those things I cant grill or put in the oven.  do love lamb, glad you enjoyed it as long as there's pudding after that  :rock :rock :rock :rock.


semp

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: guncrasher on April 17, 2022, 08:03:38 PM
when I moved to north carolina, I invited my department for a barbq at my house, just told them bring whatever you wanna drink. biggest confusion, it was like a bunch of babies at a topless bar.

I bought a small plastic tub, filled it up with ice and as people where coming with their own beer, i grabbed it and put it in the ice.  the southern people looked at me kind of strange, the californians started looking at the beer and said, oh I never had that.  I mean everybody brought whatever beer they preferred to drink. but they started just grabbing whatever beer they never tried before.  big confusion.

then I put some flank steak on the grill along with some really good chicken.  then it got even weirder.  the southern people started asking me when I was gonna start the bbq, I said it's on the grill, should be ready in 10 minutes then I'll put some more, normally we let children eat first then women then men. they were still confused what about the barbq, I was confused, it's on the grill, we got meat and chicken. they asked about bbq sauce, I said, I dont have any.  even more confusion.

and that's when east meets the west. some guy said hey, all my beer is gone, I said no problem, store is one block away, we'll go get some more.  and that's when we all started understanding each other. at least around where i grew up bbq means put something on a grill, to southerners it means something with bbq sauce.  around here bring whatever you want to drink means you probably wont drink it as we like to share beers and most likely you'll only get one and feel free to grab somebody else's beer.

we all had a  lot of fun, I had a pool, californians jumped in with their clothes on, southerners said we didnt bring a swimming suit.  didnt matter we all ended up in the pool.  had a good time and understood each other a little better.  we had no tequila or hard liquor, we had just moved there and didnt know about the abc stores.


semp

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: RotBaron on April 18, 2022, 06:59:14 AM
Since this thread is likely gone soon…. I found it ironic that a topic which easily could have been much heavier with insults and no no’s didn’t go that route to any great degree.

It’s considered a political term in most realms in the US but arguably this thread was mild to most of the other locked threads that didn’t start off political.

Interesting…

Even included the great American debate about what is BBQ and what isn’t  :rofl
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: potsNpans on April 18, 2022, 07:24:16 AM
What do Amercians mean by the term 'liberal'?

My 2 cent's to OP ? The term 'liberal' as it is today (Not historic etymology) is an embracing of marxist utopianism in some form or degree.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: zack1234 on April 18, 2022, 09:26:11 AM
I actually just finished A Promised Land by Barack Obama. Next up is Where Men Win Glory by Jon Krakauer.

You know what happens when you assume...

Obama?

I read a real book last month AJP Taylor Origins of the Second World War

Obama writing a book about how fantastic he is ?

How about reading a real book.

You actually think the American civil war was fought to free slaves don’t you?

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Spikes on April 18, 2022, 09:29:50 AM
Nah, not going to bother with your fallacious arguments.

Stay in school kids.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: zack1234 on April 18, 2022, 09:34:22 AM
Obama most important topic of conversation is himself….fact

At least the poor got free phones :rofl

Biden is the best you have? :rofl
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Shuffler on April 18, 2022, 09:50:03 AM
the truth is you will never find an answer because there is none.

take for example violators reply. change a few words and then it becomes what is a conservative.

or Shuffler's about the condition of our country. a couple of years ago, around here beans,rice, toilet paper, meat, pork and some other staples were in short supply. now we have them but more expensive.  so what is better? to not have them or to have them at a higher price.

so the truth is liberals, conservatives, woke, cancel  culture, man,  woman are terms people like to use but nobody can define. hell we can't even agree on what is a barbq. in california is different than in the south.


semp

If you were in an area with short supply 2 years ago, it was from people power buying in fear of covid. Today that fear is gone and it is the supply chain and fuel cost issues. We had the supplies back then, folks were just holding it all.
Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: nrshida on April 18, 2022, 10:09:37 AM
The term 'liberal' as it is today (Not historic etymology) is an embracing of marxist utopianism in some form or degree.

Oooooh that's a really pointed one. Interesting, thanks.

Title: Re: Specifically American Question
Post by: Arlo on April 18, 2022, 10:13:02 AM
What do Amercians mean by the term 'liberal'?

My 2 cent's to OP ? The term 'liberal' as it is today (Not historic etymology) is an embracing of marxist utopianism in some form or degree.

Your '2 cents' ain't worth much more than a revelation of deep seated and unfounded fears. Best we stick with BBQ.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvazk1Gfd0cne0IdzDBMdGTF9M7aiNtLyvlQ&usqp=CAU)