General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 09:50:43 AM
Title: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 09:50:43 AM
As Peter Zeihan put so well, the extraordinary thing about this conflict is the degree to which, "the Ukrainian forces have consistently surprised to the upside, and the Russian forces have consistently surprised to the downside."
It feels like watching the Battle of Britain on land. In near real-time.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: RotBaron on September 10, 2022, 09:57:29 AM
Me thinks the stooges don’t report you or enough as they do to others.
You or they will eventually tie this topic and thread to a current US citizen and blame them.
Just as every other Ukraine thread has gone…
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 10:09:01 AM
On a military themed website I feel free to post on on-going military conflicts.
The post is about military action and capabilities. There is nothing political about it.
If you don't like it, don't read the thread.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: bj229r on September 10, 2022, 10:13:14 AM
Rabidrabit (FW) has a detailed journal of the war that's gone on for 87 pages now, with the added bonus of our favorite Russian commenting
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Arblo on September 10, 2022, 10:16:51 AM
Thanks, good video.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 10:18:25 AM
Good news!
The Ukrainians are giving Russia MUCH more than they ever could have imagined.
Initially, Russia tried to blackmail other nations with a nuclear threat so everyone would stay out and let them do as they please. Well, it didn't work out that way.
Ukraine needs and deserves all the help anyone can give them.
What the Russians have done in Ukraine is deplorable and they need to be held accountable for it all.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 10:32:38 AM
Rabidrabit (FW) has a detailed journal of the war that's gone on for 87 pages now, with the added bonus of our favorite Russian commenting
Do you have a link for that particular thread?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 10:39:23 AM
CptTrips, youd probably like those Ukraine discussions over there. Boroda also has a thread titled "war" and it's his rantings about how Ukraine started everything and the Russians are the heros.
By the way, Boroda insisted that Russia was not going to invade - and he thought it was propaganda that the west was warning of an imminent invasion. Should should be able to easily find the threads over there. If you want to participate, you'd have to join. If you want to join just shoot me a note because I can approve the account as soon as I see it. Otherwise I might not check right away.
The Russians were emboldened after taking Crimea.
I'm so happy to see the Ukrainians giving Russia hell. I feel horribly for what those people have been living through. Well, those that do live through it.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: bj229r on September 10, 2022, 10:58:15 AM
Yeah, it started off as Boroda's, he has trouble getting to non -Russian websites now, Rabid has pretty much taken it over
I have a number of feeds coming from the Russians and Ukes that I'm putting in that thread daily. As a quick catch up, the entire Russian northern front is collapsing with no signs of defense. Here is a map the Russian Rybar channel just posted.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 11:05:23 AM
IMHO. the initial thrust on Kyiv was strategic malpractice.
If they had put everything on a southern blitzkrieg along the coast, covered by naval power, supplied by sea, they could have been in Odessa by now and the whole thing a fait accompli.
Instead of getting a 40 mile convoy stuck in the mud and out of fuel. They are lucky the Ukrainians didn't have their long range guns yet else they would have cut that up like confetti.
With the coast controlled, they could have strangled Ukraine into submission with a minimum of effort and material.
Speed was the critical factor. Getting it finished before the west could have coalesced a resistance, before weapons and material could have made their way to the Ukrainians. They had a short window and they blew it.
They might still eventually win in a year or two by continuing to throw young Russian bodies into the meat grinder until they simply drown the Ukrainians in Russian blood. But as Sun Tzu says long expensive wars can destroy a state from within. One would have to assume there are already plots afoot for regime changes as is evidenced by the increasing number of Russian oligarchs accidentally falling out of windows.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 10, 2022, 11:06:43 AM
This video is a day old and does not fully express the full breakout but does do a great job of explaining how it got to where it is.
https://youtu.be/B_BN_eCScwM
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 11:29:14 AM
And now the Russians will rush troops to the north to reenforce their flank...just in time for the Ukrainians to hit Kherson in force.
There are only two partially usable bridges in that pocket. If I were the Ukrainians were to manage to finish off their destruction, the Russians forces on the west bank are cut off from supplies and retreat unless they are really good swimmers.
Personally, I would blow one and have my arty zeroed in on the second and just wait for them to jam up on that bridgehead trying to escape in panic and then I'd turn it into a Highway of Death like we did in GW1.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 11:44:25 AM
I think the Russians have serious manpower, equipment, logistics and moral issues. None of those are a good thing even by itself.
The war is unjust and the Russians fighting it know that. They know they might die for something they should not be fighting for.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 11:56:34 AM
Russian Special Missile Operations....incompetence or information warfare? Did someone hack into the targeting?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 10, 2022, 11:59:25 AM
And now the Russians will rush troops to the north to reenforce their flank...just in time for the Ukrainians to hit Kherson in force.
There are only two partially usable bridges in that pocket. If I were the Ukrainians were to manage to finish off their destruction, the Russians forces on the west bank are cut off from supplies and retreat unless they are really good swimmers.
Personally, I would blow one and have my arty zeroed in on the second and just wait for them to jam up on that bridgehead trying to escape in panic and then I'd turn it into a Highway of Death like we did in GW1.
You might want to watch the video I posted.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 12:00:18 PM
wow!
I didn't realize those missiles were even that maneuverable. Can you imagine if that were a hack and what that would do in the minds of those operators?
Could that even be caused by a malfunction?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 12:13:50 PM
I didn't realize those missiles were even that maneuverable. Can you imagine if that were a hack and what that would do in the minds of those operators?
Could that even be caused by a malfunction?
I assume there is some target coordinates that have to be entered. Maybe some drunken Boris put his own coords in instead of the target.
Or maybe some CIA hacker was showing off for his office buddies just for the Lolz. :rofl
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 12:15:01 PM
That missile turned on a dime. that's insane.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 12:15:40 PM
I assume there is some target coordinates that have to be entered. Maybe some drunken Boris put his own coords in instead of the target.
Or maybe some CIA hacker was showing off for his office buddies just for the Lolz. :rofl
that's exactly what I was about to post--we had similar happen to some of our people in A-Stan. There's the part that says where YOU are, THEN there's the part that shows what you want to blow up
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 10, 2022, 12:19:43 PM
that's exactly what I was about to post--we had similar happen to some of our people in A-Stan. There's the part that says where YOU are, THEN there's the part that shows what you want to blow up
How much an GPS cost? You'd think a multi-million dollar system would be able to check if it's own current coords are the same as the target and ask..."Uhhh, are you sure about that?"
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 10, 2022, 12:20:33 PM
that's exactly what I was about to post--we had similar happen to some of our people in A-Stan. There's the part that says where YOU are, THEN there's the part that shows what you want to blow up
you'd think there would be a BIG flashing warning that you are going to be sending that thing right back at you. Or a lock that prevents you from entering a destination that is the same ads the launch area.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eagler on September 12, 2022, 12:22:12 PM
As with computer graphics all things are possible..the truth is hard to confirm these days..
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 12, 2022, 01:16:58 PM
As with computer graphics all things are possible..the truth is hard to confirm these days..
Eagler
We actually have things called satellites and you can easily check imagery to confirm lots of things. We also have hundreds of videos and pics from all sorts of sources as well. Quite amazingly, we confirm lots of things if we care about truth.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: GasTeddy on September 12, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
We actually have things called satellites and you can easily check imagery to confirm lots of things. We also have hundreds of videos and pics from all sorts of sources as well. Quite amazingly, we confirm lots of things if we care about truth.
Depends on who controls what is called the truth
As many things, it can be blurred long enough that it doesn't matter any more and the end result is achieved
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 12, 2022, 03:04:02 PM
How can anyone believe ANYTHING coming out of that part of the world. just a born skeptic maybe.
it really isn't hard to follow events if you get away from the MSM and Alt Rgt or other sources that put forth their own agenda at all times and report "news" that reinforces it. Find some decent forums where people discuss/ debate and rationally. That way you get all sides of the story and some SME's with deep knowledge add a lot of perspective.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: RotBaron on September 12, 2022, 07:25:53 PM
it really isn't hard to follow events if you get away from the MSM and Alt Rgt or other sources that put forth their own agenda at all times and report "news" that reinforces it. Find some decent forums where people discuss/ debate and rationally. That way you get all sides of the story and some SME's with deep knowledge add a lot of perspective.
Who/where is Alt Rgt?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 12, 2022, 09:03:27 PM
Alt Right.. what used to be Alex Jones territory but now is a lot more of what you might call Black Pilled people. Basically most of the people automatically opposed to whatever the current thing is. In the Ukraine case that would be the folks who embraced Russian propaganda such as Nazis! and Russia had no choice because UA was going to join NATO, Biolabs! and a whole bunch of false narratives. Like most propaganda, there are pecks of truths somewhere but the narratives are lies. The problem is that people become so polarized that truth does not matter anymore and it is happening in a lot of directions. You can find different false narratives on the "left" as well.
My point is we should all value the truth and ideals we grew up with instead of letting other people divide us while doing bad things. Society functions when it is built on common values. When the value break down so does society.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: RotBaron on September 13, 2022, 04:37:02 AM
Seems like you’re inferring anyone who doesn’t support US involvement in Ukraine is alt right and has bought into Russian propaganda, is that correct?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 05:47:19 AM
Seems like you’re inferring anyone who doesn’t support US involvement in Ukraine is alt right and has bought into Russian propaganda, is that correct?
Not at all. I'm directly saying that people that latch on to false narratives to include the Russian propaganda ones I listed above are doing every American a disservice. There are very reasonable arguments to not support the Ukrainians defending themselves and there are also legitimate concerns about accountability and how US taxpayer money gets handled by our government. Those legitimate discussions get drowned out by people who embrace falsehoods simply because they are "on their side". People tend to let themselves be polarized at the expense of honesty and that behavior is what I'm saying is cancerous to society.
The other side of the same coin is even more destructive but this is a UA thread and I don't want the thread shut down for domestic politics.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eagler on September 13, 2022, 07:17:16 AM
Not sure what to believe in Ukraine..
Besides innocent civilian lives being lost the rest is anyone's guess depending on what you except as the truth
There are US supported nazis (enemy of my enemy is my friend) and there were bio labs there...but we are to believe there wasn't?
I do know every billion of military might we ship over there is making the military complex that much richer at the expense of higher prices on everything for everyone else..
Don't see them stopping it anytime soon as it is very profitable and a great scrape goat
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 07:43:00 AM
Besides innocent civilian lives being lost the rest is anyone's guess depending on what you except as the truth
There are US supported nazis (enemy of my enemy is my friend) and there were bio labs there...but we are to believe there wasn't?
I do know every billion of military might we ship over there is making the military complex that much richer at the expense of higher prices on everything for everyone else..
Don't see them stopping it anytime soon as it is very profitable and a great scrape goat
Eagler
The way I work through things and figure out what the actual facts are. If you want to, I'll share what I know but in a nutshell, the UA Nazis narrative is basically roadkill. There are labs in UA and the US military was paying them for access to their research. The rest of the bioweapons narrative is also BS. There has been a heavy push into conservative circles to push dishonest narratives such as these to undermine conservative support of UA. There are a lot of legit concerns but there is also, more than ever, polarization formed by these false narratives and it successful at turning us against our neighbors. It's hardly a conservative issue. It's at least as bad on the other side of the coin. My point is we owe it to ourselves to do the right thing for the right reason and not be chumped by those who want to undermine our society for their own gains.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eviscerate on September 13, 2022, 07:44:30 AM
Don't worry - if there's anyone who can get a thread locked it is Eagler spewing political conspiracies and nonsense.
That's his choice. He also has a choice to have a sincere conversation for the betterment of all. BTW, this place is full of people who get threads shut down so pointing at him because you don't agree with him isn't entirely fair.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eagler on September 13, 2022, 07:56:45 AM
Not trying to lock anything..but seems you are
But please report me as I am 78% watched - after going over 80 for several days and being muted - and it seems easier to silence than respond for some
I believe some want out of the war as they realize they can't afford to be in it..will be interesting for Europe when winter sets in..
But if the news is accurate the Russians are dropping everything and fleeing and victory for Ukraine is right around the corner...
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 08:09:21 AM
I think Kherson is about to fall and it's possible given how spent the Russian military is that the collapse of the Karkiv district could continue. It's possible but not a guarantee.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: RotBaron on September 13, 2022, 08:57:45 AM
Shipping $ and weapons, some quite advanced for Ukrainian soldiers (where are they getting training) is essentially a proxy war. Not to mention all this $ “aid” to a notoriously corrupt country should have Americans marching in the streets demanding accountability of where/on what their tax $ are being spent.
Unfortunately the majority are probably much more knowledgeable about what happens on their FB feed than in the world outside their bubble, the younger the worse…
As has become the norm; the little guy gets the bill and screwed.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: -gg- on September 13, 2022, 09:03:57 AM
Xi Jinping is set to meet Putin in person this week. Russia has asked China for military and economic aid, and I believe they just made a huge energy deal - where China agreed to buy Russian oil and gas in rubles and in gold.
Who knows what's on the table here, but China could potentially bring a lot of support directly into the conflict. Same for Russia's local alllies.
I don't think failure is an option for Putin, and that scares me. What will Putin resort to in order to keep power to to not fail?
In my opinion, a best case scenario is one in which Putin is toppled from within and they pull out of Ukraine. Not sure what kind of odds there are for that happening.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: MiloMorai on September 13, 2022, 09:20:48 AM
Shipping $ and weapons, some quite advanced for Ukrainian soldiers (where are they getting training) is essentially a proxy war. Not to mention all this $ “aid” to a notoriously corrupt country should have Americans marching in the streets demanding accountability of where/on what their tax $ are being spent.
Unfortunately the majority are probably much more knowledgeable about what happens on their FB feed than in the world outside their bubble, the younger the worse…
As has become the norm; the little guy gets the bill and screwed.
Tell me about this corruption.
As for marching in the street, that was tried Jan 6 due to 'corruption'.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 09:43:52 AM
Shipping $ and weapons, some quite advanced for Ukrainian soldiers (where are they getting training) is essentially a proxy war. Not to mention all this $ “aid” to a notoriously corrupt country should have Americans marching in the streets demanding accountability of where/on what their tax $ are being spent.
Unfortunately the majority are probably much more knowledgeable about what happens on their FB feed than in the world outside their bubble, the younger the worse…
As has become the norm; the little guy gets the bill and screwed.
It's no secret that they are getting trained by just about everyone so i don't know why you make it sound insidious.
It's perfectly reasonable to demand as a US citizen that our foreign aid be reasonably accounted for. However, you really are pushing one side, the Russian side, of the narrative.
I'm perfectly fine with our weapons that were built for the purpose of demilitarizing our foes actually doing so. Fascist Russia is certainly our foe. Can you explain to me why the Uke people don't have the right to defend themselves? Isn't that what we Americans believe as a fundamental premise of our society?
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: guncrasher on September 13, 2022, 09:55:50 AM
Besides innocent civilian lives being lost the rest is anyone's guess depending on what you except as the truth
There are US supported nazis (enemy of my enemy is my friend) and there were bio labs there...but we are to believe there wasn't?
I do know every billion of military might we ship over there is making the military complex that much richer at the expense of higher prices on everything for everyone else..
Don't see them stopping it anytime soon as it is very profitable and a great scrape goat
Eagler
bio lab is a generic term. not necessarily only used for the production of was materials even though some can be used for both.
you can even have a bio lab in your kitchen using a few products.
semp
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 10:09:07 AM
bio lab is a generic term. not necessarily only used for the production of was materials even though some can be used for both.
you can even have a bio lab in your kitchen using a few products. semp
From what I could find, the US military funded research projects so that it could have access to the results. This isn't unique to UA, it's a global thing and part of how the US military monitors potential threats. The alt rgt repeating of way over the top Russian propaganda is where the "Bio Labs!" thing really goes off the rails into the absurd.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eagler on September 13, 2022, 10:34:12 AM
Yes things can be done abroad..the more corrupt the country the better...that can't be done in country as it might be illegal...
We have zero accountability for billions spent...except for record inflation
This conflict is part of the fall you see today and the bigger one coming..
As our news sources have proven to be bias, I don't believe their narrative on most things these days and sadly that includes this war
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eviscerate on September 13, 2022, 10:36:35 AM
That's his choice. He also has a choice to have a sincere conversation for the betterment of all. BTW, this place is full of people who get threads shut down so pointing at him because you don't agree with him isn't entirely fair.
Might not be entirely fair but it is entirely true. As you can see by recent posts it's all about the politics surrounding the war while the thread is about the war itself. Most people here are smart enough to be able to make the distinction and keep one thing separate from the other.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Eagler on September 13, 2022, 10:43:36 AM
Though I have not mentioned specifics, they are one and the same..but please keep trying to silence me
What do you think is driving the decisions being made about this war..the weather?
I am out this thread...babble on
Eagler
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 10:46:25 AM
As our news sources have proven to be bias, I don't believe their narrative on most things these days and sadly that includes this war
Eagler
You can follow basic facts and at least use that. I post up a lot of maps etc in the FW forum in the war thread. I would here but it's just too much to put the same stuff in multiple locations.
The problem I'm trying to point out is how people get justifiably put off by the MSM and gov but then fall for other bs from other sources. For me, I quickly learned that propaganda is bad regardless from the direction it comes from. I simply try to filter through the bs and understand the facts and build my opinion based on the actual facts and core beliefs.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 13, 2022, 11:07:59 AM
Eagler has gotten thread after thread after thread closed by reflexively injecting his political conspiracy diarrhea. And now he’s trying to do it again.
The topic of this thread is military and logistical operations.
Let him take his other crap to flame warriors.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: rabbidrabbit on September 13, 2022, 11:55:41 AM
Eagler has gotten thread after thread after thread closed by reflexively injecting his political conspiracy diarrhea. And now he’s trying to do it again.
The topic of this thread are military and logistical operations.
Let him take his other crap to flame warriors.
Seems to me that at least 80% of the posters here fit the same description as far as political crap and shutting down threads. I don't have a problem discussing issues with anyone as long as they are sincere. If people place a higher priority on "winning" or put opinion above facts then every conversation with them is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 13, 2022, 11:58:27 AM
Seems to me that at least 80% of the posters here fit the same description as far as political crap and shutting down threads. I don't have a problem discussing issues with anyone as long as they are sincere. If people place a higher priority on "winning" or put opinion above facts then every conversation with them is a waste of time.
It doesn’t matter what you’re OK with discussing. He will get this thread closed like he has so many others. If that’s what you want too, then bon appétit.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Elfie on September 13, 2022, 11:58:45 AM
Seems to me that at least 80% of the posters here fit the same description as far as political crap and shutting down threads. I don't have a problem discussing issues with anyone as long as they are sincere. If people place a higher priority on "winning" or put opinion above facts then every conversation with them is a waste of time.
The bolded part includes the person you quoted.
As to the non-bolded part, I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: CptTrips on September 13, 2022, 03:22:08 PM
Always enjoy Peter's viewpoint.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Volron on September 13, 2022, 04:50:58 PM
Heh Remember when I said that Russia would very likely win? Yeah...about that. :rofl Wow. I honestly thought they may of had few folk with a brain in there, but it's almost like they just grabbed some guy who plays Wargame poorly, and put him in charge.
Either way, I'm curious if Ukraine will attempt to take Crimea back, what with how Russian forces having been routed. :headscratch: Seeing how well they are doing against them now, while I don't think it won't be easy, I can see them pulling it off. Ukraine doesn't exactly have a navy to use against Russia's, but chances are they could probably throw rocks at Russian ships and sink them. heh
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Elfie on September 13, 2022, 05:07:49 PM
Quote
Either way, I'm curious if Ukraine will attempt to take Crimea back, what with how Russian forces having been routed.
I'd bet they do. Heck, at the rate things are going Russian troops in the Crimea might well surrender.
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Meatwad on September 13, 2022, 07:48:45 PM
Xi Jinping is set to meet Putin in person this week. Russia has asked China for military and economic aid, and I believe they just made a huge energy deal - where China agreed to buy Russian oil and gas in rubles and in gold.
Who knows what's on the table here, but China could potentially bring a lot of support directly into the conflict. Same for Russia's local alllies.
I don't think failure is an option for Putin, and that scares me. What will Putin resort to in order to keep power to to not fail?
In my opinion, a best case scenario is one in which Putin is toppled from within and they pull out of Ukraine. Not sure what kind of odds there are for that happening.
If the military in china is of the same build quality of the things they sell, it will work for a month then stop working right when the 30 day guarantee expires. Then its "we so sorry"
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: bj229r on September 13, 2022, 08:11:38 PM
This forum needs a 'like' button
Title: Re: Ukrainian Breakthrough at Izyum
Post by: Elfie on September 13, 2022, 08:36:06 PM