Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: -gg- on January 19, 2023, 03:49:35 PM
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Hopefully his victims will see justice and this gun-wielding lunatic will go to jail were he belongs
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/da-reveal-charges-fatal-shooting-set-alec-baldwins/story?id=92278109
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“Rampage” might be a bit strong of a term.
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Epic negligence?
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Please, for the love of God, don't make me defend Alec Baldwin.
I just don't understand why an actual functioning fire arm is ever on a movie set at all. Could they just modify props and have blank cartridges specially sized so a live round couldn't be chambered even if you wanted to. That way you don't have to try and remember whether you switched out the real bullet for blank. It should only be able to chamber blanks. It should be modified so.
If I was an actor, I wouldn't expect to be handed a functioning weapon in a movie. Certainly not loaded with live ammo.
If I was doing a movie where I am defusing a nuclear bomb, I wouldn't expect it to be live ordinance. It's Hollywood. I'd assume they have some fake ones to use.
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Well, I don't know why they would have a real fire on the set but Alec Baldwin was the producer and also the person who pulled the trigger.
So he does have pretty much full responsibility for everything that goes on. And he denied any responsibility at all.
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but Alec Baldwin was the producer
He was certainly guilty of hiring the wrong prop master. :D
Apparently he was playing around maybe to get the feel and pulled the trigger while it was point at the cinephotographer. But even if he hadn't, he would have been pointing it at another actor in the scene and shooting them. (I bet that guy was like, "whew!") Somebody was destined to have a real bad day no matter what.
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It was a horrible accident
The OP of this thread is disrespectful to the dead and living imo
Balwin is a major tool but accidents happen
Karma gets us all
Eagler
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AFAIAC they too one heck of a long time to come to a patently obvious conclusion regarding charging him.
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It was a horrible accident
The OP of this thread is disrespectful to the dead and living imo
Balwin is a major tool but accidents happen
Karma gets us all
Eagler
how exactly am I being disrespectful of the dead?
Alec Baldwin was the producer and he's the one who pointed the gun at people and pulled the trigger.
You're not supposed to ever point a set gun at anyone - and so he's being charged with involuntary manslaughter.
You're the one being disrespectful if you think that this woman's death should just be swept away and brushed off as an accident.
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So he purposely shot and killed her?
You make it sound that way in your post
He will get his as we all do ..it's called karma
Eagler
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Criminally negligent death resulting. Break rocks. You jump in a car and take for granted the brakes work, and you plow into a family of five... it is on you.
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You're not supposed to ever point a set gun at anyone
Really? On a movie set filming shoot outs? You've never seen a gun (hopefully a prop) pointed at someone in a movie scene? Ever? In your entire life? Really?
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/odhcvnv8x6sin7u/saul2.png?raw=1)
Do I really have to go dig up the infinite number of movie clips? Prop guns get pointed at people all the time on movie sets. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that an actor not familiar with real guns would assume that professional armorers would be using prop guns. I'm sure Baldwin would not know the difference.
Alec Baldwin ain't heavy, and he sure ain't my brother, but I find your reaction disingenuous. IF you just said I hate Baldwin and hope he is screwed, then I'd be fine with that. But I find your faux outrage amusing.
I suspect if this had happened on a Chuck Norris set you'd have a different reaction. You will of course deny that, but I will doubt your sincerity.
This happened before the scene began filming, but then it just would have been an actor shot instead of a cinemaphotographer.
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Wasn't the person Baldwin shot not a character in the movie at all tho?
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Wasn't the person Baldwin shot not a character in the movie at all tho?
read the last sentence in the post above yours.
Is it better to shoot an actor than a cinemaphotographer? Maybe. ;)
[Edit]
I think there was criminal negligence, but I think it was the armorer. Baldwin may have acted like a tool after the shooting (and before ;)), but I just don't put the criminal onus on him. Now he could get financially sued because it was his production; I just don't see criminal liability. My guess is some po-dunk DA is trying to win points with the rural voters by nailing a Hollyweird. An election must be upcoming. ;)
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I wonder if there were fingerprints on the live rounds.
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I wonder if there were fingerprints on the live rounds.
That would be an interesting question.
But if I were running Hollywood, There'd be no real firearms allowed on a movie set. There should just be smarter ways of avoiding mishaps. Like putting a safety flag in your rifle chamber when not shooting. It eliminates the possibility of accidentally forgetting and leaving a round chambered.
No gun should ever be used as a movie prop that can possibly chamber a real round.
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you're not supposed to ever point a prop gun THAT FIRES at anyone
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That would be an interesting question.
But if I were running Hollywood, There'd be no real firearms allowed on a movie set. There should just be smarter ways of avoiding mishaps. Like putting a safety flag in your rifle chamber when not shooting. It eliminates the possibility of accidentally forgetting and leaving a round chambered.
No gun should ever be used as a movie prop that can possibly chamber a real round.
Mandatory safety course at the least.
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you're not supposed to ever point a prop gun THAT FIRES at anyone
A prop should never be a real gun that CAN fire a round. And an actor would have no reason to suspect he had been handed a real gun with real ammo. In what universe should that have even been a possibility on a movie set.
You're just saying nonsense now to support an unsupportable position. I see no point continuing on that path with you. You're being disingenuous.
Now if it had been his personal side arm that he whipped out to show everyone and was playing with it and it went off, then I'd be on your side.
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Mandatory safety course at the least.
That's better than using prop guns that are incapable of chambering a real round?
I've seen even experience gun owners eventually F up. Sooner or later.
The real answer has to be to never use a real gun as a movie prop. Sooner or later you are asking for a tragedy.
Now if Baldwin knew real guns were being used on the set, then he might be culpable. He should have then unloaded and reloaded the gun himself.
But certainly we should all agree that the "murderous rampage" silliness is not worth taking seriously. I'm sure that plays better over on FlameWarriors.
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And an actor would have no reason to suspect he had been handed a real gun with real ammo.
As I understand it, the prosecution has already lined up a bevy of actors who agree with me, and virtually anyone with common sense, that you don't aim a real gun at someone and pull the trigger unless you have personally checked to ensure the gun is unloaded. EVEN THEN, it would take an effort to do so.
Baldwin already has been on TV saying that he didn't pull the trigger. FBI, and anyone familiar with 1973 Colt types, know that this is extremely unlikely in any event, and FBI apparently has examined this particular weapon and ruled out any mechanical malfunctions.
They haven't charged Baldwin with murder, after all.
- oldman
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A prop should never be a real gun that CAN fire a round. And an actor would have no reason to suspect he had been handed a real gun with real ammo. In what universe should that have even been a possibility on a movie set.
You're just saying nonsense now to support an unsupportable position. I see no point continuing on that path with you. You're being disingenuous.
Now if it had been his personal side arm that he whipped out to show everyone and was playing with it and it went off, then I'd be on your side.
they do use guns that fire so that they can get a realistic movement, sound, recoil or whatever. It's cheaper and better than CGI, I'd guess. Maybe CGI will be the way to go but I think for realism, using a firing prop gun would be hard to match.
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they do use guns that fire so that they can get a realistic movement, sound, recoil or whatever. It's cheaper and better than CGI, I'd guess. Maybe CGI will be the way to go but I think for realism, using a firing prop gun would be hard to match.
A blank round can actuate the recoil slide just he same. Smoke, barrel flash everything. We used them in M-16 during training exercises in the AF with Miles gear. Fully operated the weapon exactly the same.
The best approach would be to make blank a non-standard caliber and modify the chambers to take that and not fit a normal round. Maybe a business opportunity there for gunsmiths.
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They've already got the girl who put the bullet in the gun. The other thing too is that Baldwin was not just an actor, but a producer as well. This means his responsibility increased for a safe set. The woman that was shot has an INteresting history of journalism which is something to note. Baldwin also deleted texts which never looks good. Could their be more to the story than just 'an accident'? I'm trying to figure how real bullets got on the set to begin with. That suggests some kind of conspiricy to me. He might get a year or 2, they might say he's not guilty and he'll walk because he's a celeb with tons of money and good lawyers. Or he'll end up with some kind of house arrest. Will just have to see as more details come out.
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they do use guns that fire so that they can get a realistic movement, sound, recoil or whatever. It's cheaper and better than CGI, I'd guess. Maybe CGI will be the way to go but I think for realism, using a firing prop gun would be hard to match.
I'll throw my .02 into this. Why not just use CO2 powered pistols and revolvers, and use CGI for that effect. Hollywood could easier make the flash, and sound effects easy. Heck I've watched the YouTuber Freddie Wong when they did shootout videos, and they used airsoft weapons, all they would've done was covered the orange tip to make it realistic, make sure the slide goes back, then in editing use CGI for the rounds to make sure they are coming out correctly, and that's it.
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They've already got the girl who put the bullet in the gun. The other thing too is that Baldwin was not just an actor, but a producer as well. This means his responsibility increased for a safe set. The woman that was shot has an INteresting history of journalism which is something to note. Baldwin also deleted texts which never looks good. Could their be more to the story than just 'an accident'? I'm trying to figure how real bullets got on the set to begin with. That suggests some kind of conspiricy to me. He might get a year or 2, they might say he's not guilty and he'll walk because he's a celeb with tons of money and good lawyers. Or he'll end up with some kind of house arrest. Will just have to see as more details come out.
Nope. He'll walk. No problem. (Not from a civil suit though.)
This was just performative kabuki for the DA's rural voters.
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That's better than using prop guns that are incapable of chambering a real round?
I didnt say that.. i said at the least.
Do not attribute things to me, I didn't say pls
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I didnt say that.. i said at the least.
Do not attribute things to me, I didn't say pls
I didn't attribute you saying anything.
I understand what you said. My point is that is going in exactly the wrong direction.
The solution isn't to have safety training so real guns can be used in movies. Not even "at least". That will eventually lead to another tragedy with or without the safety training. You're just asking for it.
The real answer, IMHO, is to never use real guns on a movie set at all.
If they are in a movie deactivating nuclear bomb, should it be a real nuclear bomb for authenticity? Would that be prudent?
[edit]
My call is he will walk on criminal liability, but get nailed in a civil suit.
If I'm wrong, oh well, not my circus, not my monkey. ;)
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This made me think about the Brandon Lee incident.
That was different I know but has similarities.
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This made me think about the Brandon Lee incident.
That was different I know but has similarities.
Me too. And this:
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/actor-and-two-children-killed-on-twilight-zone-set#:~:text=Twilight%20Zone%20co%2Ddirector%20John,were%20charged%20with%20involuntary%20manslaughter. (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/actor-and-two-children-killed-on-twilight-zone-set#:~:text=Twilight%20Zone%20co%2Ddirector%20John,were%20charged%20with%20involuntary%20manslaughter.)
They were acquitted of involuntary manslaughter, btw. Don't know if there was ever a civil suit. There bar for proof is a lot lower in a civil suit.
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Heard they were hunting/plinking with the pistol also..
It might back up on the last doing that as they didn't disarm what they armed and somehow put it back for filming use..
Eagler
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Heard they were hunting/plinking with the pistol also..
It might back up on the last doing that as they didn't disarm what they armed and somehow put it back for filming use..
Who is "they"? Baldwin? If that was the case, you moved a lot closer to agreeing with the charge.
Hopefully Hollywood learns from this and handle things differently. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Heard they were hunting/plinking with the pistol also..
It might back up on the last doing that as they didn't disarm what they armed and somehow put it back for filming use..
Eagler
I heard that too months ago. but if was none of the actors. how the real bullets ended up in the vehicle holding all the props we never explained
semp
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A blank round can actuate the recoil slide just he same. Smoke, barrel flash everything. We used them in M-16 during training exercises in the AF with Miles gear. Fully operated the weapon exactly the same.
The best approach would be to make blank a non-standard caliber and modify the chambers to take that and not fit a normal round. Maybe a business opportunity there for gunsmiths.
That's what I meant. Prop guns that fire blanks.
I think the reason why they don't make special guns is that it would be super expensive to make all of the different types of historical guns that they use in westerns and other movies.
So blank rounds are used in re4al guns. At least that's my understanding.
But going back to Alec Baldwin, he was the producer. He also was the guy who pointed it and fired it at a person. I don't know how he can escape responsibility.,
Like I said, actors are supposed to know not to EVER point a gun at anyone. A gun that fires blanks. They're supposed to be treated as real guns - and that was actually made clear after rules were changed after Brandon Lee was killed by a blank.
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A blank round can actuate the recoil slide just he same. Smoke, barrel flash everything. We used them in M-16 during training exercises in the AF with Miles gear. Fully operated the weapon exactly the same.
I am not aware of any M-16 that could shoot multiple blank cartridges without a blank adapter. Kinda makes it obvious even for the chairforce.
(https://img.ruten.com.tw/s1/8/35/9d/21307100446109_781.jpg)
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Relax.. If he's found guilty the most they'll make him do is film a couple of anti-gun PSAs that they'll play during every commercial break on tv for the next fifteen years.
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Alec Baldwin will not spend one day in jail for this, when he's found guilty.
He'll get fined and probation.
Coogan
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I am not aware of any M-16 that could shoot multiple blank cartridges without a blank adapter. Kinda makes it obvious even for the chairforce.
(https://img.ruten.com.tw/s1/8/35/9d/21307100446109_781.jpg)
True, but that could be built into the internal of the barrel. It's just choking it down to create more back pressure.
The reason they didn't do that with the M-16 is they wanted to take them off later and have them function. Prop guns should never be able to fire real rounds so that mod doesn't need to clamp on and off, it should be permanently built into the barrel.
A choke cylinder could be inserted deep enough into the barrel to not be visible and soldered into place. It would still allow enough gas to escape to show a muzzle flash while creating enough back pressure to exercise the action.
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Sounds like you've found your true calling.
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I am not aware of any M-16 that could shoot multiple blank cartridges without a blank adapter. Kinda makes it obvious even for the chairforce.
(https://img.ruten.com.tw/s1/8/35/9d/21307100446109_781.jpg)
I have used M-16s with blanks without a blank adapter. When I was young and in cadet forces we used a mix of FN-FAL (SLR) and M-16s as opposing forces (for the NZ Army). I only saw the blank adapters being used on LMGs, we certainly didn't have any on our M-16s.
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I have used M-16s with blanks without a blank adapter. When I was young and in cadet forces we used a mix of FN-FAL (SLR) and M-16s as opposing forces (for the NZ Army). I only saw the blank adapters being used on LMGs, we certainly didn't have any on our M-16s.
Unless you’re manually cycling the rifle , using the charging handle, for each round, I believe you’re mistaken. You need a blank adapter to contain the gas pressure in the barrel long enough to build the necessary pressure to operate the gas blowback system, thus cycling the bolt, to discharge the spent case and to feed a fresh blank round into the chamber. Because blank ammo does not have a bullet, the gases would escape the barrel too quickly to operate the rifle otherwise.
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The m16 is a gas charged rifle. Without the back pressure of a live round or a blank adaptor, the rifle cannot cycle.
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I'll always stand behind Alec Baldwin.
https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
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I'll always stand behind Alec Baldwin.
https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
You sure? He might have one of these
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e7/9b/c9/e79bc9ad75e58b3539cd0ffd68949ce4.jpg)
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Hopefully Hollywood learns from this and handle things differently. :rofl :rofl :rofl
Doubt it. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances in 1993.
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Easy way to get rid of someone that has annoyed you. Make an unfortunate 'accident' happen. A tactic as old as history itself. Baldwin is either an unwitting pawn, or blackmailed into doing the job. There is no way that a professional movie production team does not have firearms specialists whose job it is to stop exactly this kind of mistake.
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Stupid people will continue to do stupid things. Alec fits the bill.
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I'll always stand behind Alec Baldwin.
https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true
Add Dick Cheney? 😉
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Doubt it. Brandon Lee died in similar circumstances in 1993.
Well that gun did have blank.
Not sure what Hollywood could have done differently in that case.
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My guess is this will show us all again that we have numerous justice systems in this country as prosecution and punishment vary on numerous factors having nothing to do with the crimes ..
If it were just a crew member that pulled the trigger it would all go much differently imo
Eagler
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Well that gun did have blank.
Not sure what Hollywood could have done differently in that case.
Lee died because of previous squib load. Someone left a primer in a prop case. The bullet lodged in the barrel and then in a subsequent scene the firing of a blank was enough to expel the projectile. The film armorer was at fault. IMO
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How is accidentally shooting someone without knowing there were live bullets loaded considered a "murderous rampage." Spin much?
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Lee died because of previous squib load. Someone left a primer in a prop case. The bullet lodged in the barrel and then in a subsequent scene the firing of a blank was enough to expel the projectile. The film armorer was at fault. IMO
Oh, did not know that. I thought it was just the pressure from the blank gas that did damage to his brain.
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Oh, did not know that. I thought it was just the pressure from the blank gas that did damage to his brain.
I'm going from memory, but feel free to fact check me.
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Oh, did not know that. I thought it was just the pressure from the blank gas that did damage to his brain.
He was shot in the abdomen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#:~:text=Lee%20was%20rushed%20to%20the,an%20accident%20due%20to%20negligence.
In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the gun that was used as a prop (a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load.
During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.[101][102]
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He was shot in the abdomen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#:~:text=Lee%20was%20rushed%20to%20the,an%20accident%20due%20to%20negligence.
In the film shoot preceding the fatal scene, the gun that was used as a prop (a real revolver) was loaded with improperly made dummy rounds, improvised from live cartridges that had the powder charges removed by the special effects crew, so in close-ups the revolver would show normal-looking ammunition. However, the crew neglected to remove the primers from the cartridges, and at some point before the fatal event, one of the rounds had been fired. Although there were no powder charges, the energy from the ignited primer was enough to separate the bullet from the casing and push it part-way into the gun barrel, where it got stuck—a dangerous condition known as a squib load.
During the fatal scene, which called for the revolver to be fired at Lee from a distance of 3.6–4.5 meters (12–15 ft), the dummy cartridges were replaced with blank rounds, which contained a powder charge and the primer, but no solid bullet, allowing the gun to be fired with sound and flash effects without the risk of an actual projectile. However, the gun was not properly checked and cleared before the blank was fired, and the dummy bullet previously lodged in the barrel was then propelled forward by the blank's propellant and shot out the muzzle with almost the same force as if the round were live, striking Lee in the abdomen.[101][102]
I must be thinking of someone else then. Some one had pointed a prop gun to their temple like a mock suicide. Even though it had a blank, the blast pressure was enough to damage their brain.
So, maybe don't use guns capable of chambering real rounds on movie sets. And in either case don't press it up against your temple. :confused:
Maybe the insurance companies will eventually put their foot down.
[Edit]
It must have been this guy I heard about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum)
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Use a square shell for the blank.
Shouldn't fit in a round hole.
It's not rocket science. :bhead
Coogan
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Unless you’re manually cycling the rifle , using the charging handle, for each round, I believe you’re mistaken. You need a blank adapter to contain the gas pressure in the barrel long enough to build the necessary pressure to operate the gas blowback system, thus cycling the bolt, to discharge the spent case and to feed a fresh blank round into the chamber. Because blank ammo does not have a bullet, the gases would escape the barrel too quickly to operate the rifle otherwise.
Nope clearly remember it as there were BFAs on the LMGs. The ammo we used had a black plastic casing, except for the primer which was metal. I do vaguely remember being told we might have manually cycle - but never having to do it. I also remember running out of ammo real quick and having to jump out behind some guys going "BANG BANG BANG".
We were fighting against NZ Territorials, our equivilent of your National Guard I think (weekend warriors). We (a bunch of gungho teenagers) were led by regular force (NZ Army guys) who scared the toejam outta me with how quiet and sneaky they were.
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Use a square shell for the blank.
Shouldn't fit in a round hole.
It's not rocket science. :bhead
Coogan
Most of the people being talked about are Hollywood…minions to the elite. Few of them really know much about firearms, although the condemn and criticize those who actually do as a part time job.
These folks believe the AR in AR-15 stands for assault rifle and use terms like clip and machine gun with little understanding…
They make incredible living(s) off of glorifying violence and then act shocked at real violence. When it happens among their ranks, they cover it up. Wonderful folks aren’t they? :aok
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Sorta like this with street racing..
https://youtu.be/PC5blZ9n810
https://youtu.be/CQU7CftaEWY
Another stupid small brain little ego based activity for the insecure
And hollywood continues to endorse it..
Eagler
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Investigators screwed up the physical investigation of the gun.
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Sorta like this with street racing..
https://youtu.be/PC5blZ9n810
https://youtu.be/CQU7CftaEWY
Another stupid small brain little ego based activity for the insecure
And hollywood continues to endorse it..
Eagler
Well since they closed both drag strips around here to build amazon warehouses the only way to run our cars is on the streets now.
If they didn't want us on the streets they wouldn't have shutdown all the racetracks, gotta obey and consume! :rofl
Oh well guess I'm on of them stupid small brains little egos cause I'm insecure, and you think most racers give a damn about hollyweird :rolleyes:
EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE AMERICA!
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Fast car..big man
Yep stand my my small brain/ fragile ego comment
Eagler
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Fast car..big man
Yep stand my my small brain/ fragile ego comment
Eagler
Smooth brain opinion of the day goes to you sir.
Damn boomers want to make sure no one can have the fun they had growing up by making it illegal.
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Smooth brain opinion of the day goes to you sir.
Damn boomers want to make sure no one can have the fun they had growing up by making it illegal.
I got mine. Boomer battle cry.
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Nope clearly remember it as there were BFAs on the LMGs. The ammo we used had a black plastic casing, except for the primer which was metal. I do vaguely remember being told we might have manually cycle - but never having to do it. I also remember running out of ammo real quick and having to jump out behind some guys going "BANG BANG BANG".
We were fighting against NZ Territorials, our equivilent of your National Guard I think (weekend warriors). We (a bunch of gungho teenagers) were led by regular force (NZ Army guys) who scared the toejam outta me with how quiet and sneaky they were.
Tell me you don't understand how a gas-charged firearm works without telling me you don't understand how a gas-charged firearm works.
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Eat more beans