General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on July 27, 2023, 07:01:28 AM
Title: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: oboe on July 27, 2023, 07:01:28 AM
Who to believe? The Pentagon? Or the whistleblower?
I think it would be really interesting to know the truth. I mean everything that is known, if there really is anything to know.
I'm still skeptical, but intrigued. Probably the whistle-blower is an attention-seeking crackpot, but then again the Pentagon does not have a great track record for being open and truthful.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on July 27, 2023, 07:53:34 AM
What moron believes anything our government spews these days about anything?
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 27, 2023, 08:16:06 AM
Watch a few of these videos from this channel and you will definitely conclude there is un known objects floating around out there.
Some are more believable than others. Some are more questionable than others. It's interesting what these whistle-blowers are saying. Nothing I haven't heard from other sources that I've looked into. That being said, I wonder how much they will actually let us know.
From what I've heard also, many new age video games and former shows that involve space, aliens, ect like StarGate and StarTrek, even X-Files, have shown classified technology to us that we have that they put in our face without us even realizing it's actually real.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: oboe on July 27, 2023, 08:27:55 AM
If they are real, and have been visiting, do you think there would be any harm in letting the public know?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 27, 2023, 08:34:05 AM
If they are real, and have been visiting, do you think there would be any harm in letting the public know?
Well, the military is usually hesitant to willingly admit that there are piloted craft that can penetrate their most restricted airspaces (including airspace over nuclear missile systems) with impunity and with technology they can not understand or match.
Admitting complete and total helplessness is something people we pay to defend us really don't like to admit.
Edit: BTW, I make no assertions about this particular whistle-blower. I haven't researched his claims.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Animl-AW on July 27, 2023, 08:36:49 AM
Yall need meds to control endless hysteria. What’s that like?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: oboe on July 27, 2023, 09:49:41 AM
Well, the military is usually hesitant to willingly admit that there are piloted craft that can penetrate their most restricted airspaces (including airspace over nuclear missile systems) with impunity and with technology they can not understand or match.
Admitting complete and total helplessness is something people we pay to defend us really don't like to admit.
Edit: BTW, I make no assertions about this particular whistle-blower. I haven't researched his claims.
True, and I haven't either. And it may be true that whistleblowers AREN'T typically attention-seeking crackpots. If that's true, maybe there really is something to this story.
I'd just be really interested to know everything there is to know about it.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: morfiend on July 27, 2023, 10:24:25 AM
If they are real, and have been visiting, do you think there would be any harm in letting the public know?
Yes!
We are being desensitized to this,every other show on tv is about ufos. Or it could just be another distraction so we don’t notice that other hand in our pocket…… :devil
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 27, 2023, 10:27:10 AM
It's all hearsay, no whistles blown, no evidence, no news, it's just...look a squirrel!
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on July 27, 2023, 02:16:25 PM
Just another distraction from real events like corruption on levels never imagined before
Imagine the war they could fake fighting "aliens"?
Imagine the $$$ that would be printed for such an event?
Some are drooling at the thought...
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 27, 2023, 04:04:53 PM
The "harm" would be them having to answer a million questions and who among us are aliens. I think it would scare the hell outa some people. That is the point of soft disclosure and putting it in our face in movies, to desensitize as to not create a large scale scare. Then you have, "well why aren't using those methods for energy" yota yota, and now many industries and aerospace industries lose their grip. There are probably national security concerns regarding weapons and technologies that give us a competitive advantage and so on. Eventually though, if they really want humanity to progress, they will have to release it. Of course it's a distraction for everything else going on, but it's an important one to say the least and should be acknowledged, much more than a damn submarine that's for sure.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Meatwad on July 27, 2023, 06:47:14 PM
There has been many unexplainable things since the late 40s with unknown flying craft doing things not possible within the realm of this planet. Many things both civilian and military personnel personally witnessed but were told to keep quiet. An "otherworldly craft" crashes, the area populace personally witnessed and claim to see "beings" by it deceased, then uncle sam rushes in and no one is allowed to talk about it and it never happened. ever.
Do I personally think this planet has been visited and the govt knows and stays silent on? Yes. This universe and galaxy is way too big for this to be the solely only planet in existence to have life. Odds are it hasnt been discovered yet. Or it has, but it "doesnt exist"
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: icepac on July 27, 2023, 07:15:28 PM
I doubt we will meet aliens until we make a trip to their town.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: MiloMorai on July 27, 2023, 07:57:07 PM
Christianity will take a big knock if there is little green men.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Busher on July 27, 2023, 09:54:22 PM
I flew professionally for 42 years and I can honestly say that i have never seen an unexplainable flying object. I recall one late night flight where some of my passengers were concerned about a saucer flying below us on the right side of the airplane. I went back to see what they were worried about. They were looking at the reflection of the moon on top of a very smooth cloud deck a few thousand feet below our altitude. With the theories floating around today, I am certain, I would not have alleviated everyone's concerns. The nearest possibly inhabitable solar system to our own is Proxima Centauri. It's almost 4.3 light years away. Gotta wonder how these aliens pack enough food in these tiny space vehicles.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: MiloMorai on July 27, 2023, 10:31:01 PM
I flew professionally for 42 years and I can honestly say that i have never seen an unexplainable flying object. I recall one late night flight where some of my passengers were concerned about a saucer flying below us on the right side of the airplane. I went back to see what they were worried about. They were looking at the reflection of the moon on top of a very smooth cloud deck a few thousand feet below our altitude. With the theories floating around today, I am certain, I would not have alleviated everyone's concerns. The nearest possibly inhabitable solar system to our own is Proxima Centauri. It's almost 4.3 light years away. Gotta wonder how these aliens pack enough food in these tiny space vehicles.
At Warp 5 the mother ship would be here in no time at all.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: guncrasher on July 28, 2023, 02:27:27 PM
when an airplane crashed, everybody and their mother shows up to rescue or recover.
when a ufo crashes, it's on its own. no alien rescue, seems strange.
semp
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nopoop on July 29, 2023, 10:09:07 AM
https://youtu.be/RsQCXN4o4Ps
Havent seen this before.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 29, 2023, 11:58:47 AM
Wow that is incredible footage. Nice find! Definitely correlates from what I've heard about them. Does look like Alister Crowley version, and Does look like the head from the crop circle in Nefarious's post.
Waiting for the obligatory "it's fake" post from Cpttrips.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
Wow that is incredible footage. Nice find! Definitely correlates from what I've heard about them. Does look like Alister Crowley version, and Does look like the head from the crop circle in Nefarious's post.
Waiting for the obligatory "it's fake" post from Cpttrips.
So you honestly think that's real?
I think I see how you became a Q believer.
Look! More government and MSM suppressed alien footage!!!!!!
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 01:01:36 PM
DmonSlyr,
I just wonder with the massive resources available to suppress UFO information , even to be able to force a photographer to claim he faked a crop circle video on National Geographic because they had his family hanging from chains over vats of acid.
With all that nefarious power, in 12 years they couldn't get a single video removed from Youtube showing their most guarded national security secret?
Dolby has had videos removed for even using the wrong song, and the vast deep state security apparatus couldn't get this video removed after 12 years of trying?
Some people have a birth defect where they were born without a BS detector. it's sad. I think the medical term is "gullible".
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 29, 2023, 02:14:58 PM
Look! More government and MSM suppressed alien footage!!!!!!
What makes you think its not real? Where was the source that you believe it's faked? Have you watched the other videos on the channel? It seems yet again the guy disappeared. I don't normally believe what authorities have to say regarding things as they have ruined their trust with me over the last 7-8 years especially.
Interestingly enough, things regarding aliens and UFOs are not sensored on youtube.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 02:31:18 PM
You don't understand how this works. I don't need to prove the negative. The negative is assumed.
If you are claiming that is real, you are making the affirmative argument. YOU have to provide the evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
What is your extraordinary evidence to prove that is real? And you can't point to the video itself. A thing can't be it's own evidence in support of itself.
So what is your extraordinary evidence that is real?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nopoop on July 29, 2023, 02:40:49 PM
A dear friend who passed away at 81 father was a witness at tbe Roswell crash site. My friend was a no BS guy. I dont remember how the subject came up, but he said when dad got home when tbey were having dinner he told them all about it including dead "alien" bodies.
Next morning a couple of men showed up from the goverment. Was told not to speak of it. And his Dad never did.
My friend was the last person who would tell a story like that..
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: -gg- on July 29, 2023, 03:00:56 PM
So listing fact. is denying science.
By the way how do you deny science? Lol. I believe in science 100%. But what you guys are posting is not science. It's data that skewed to fit an agenda.
If you look back at everything I posted is 100% true. More people are alive today, there's more food being produced and there are less famine and deaths because of the warmer climate. The warmer climate has been beneficial.
I don't deny that the climate is warming. But I'm telling you is that there's no bad things coming of it. There's only good things that have come from it.
Why don't you guys list some things that are horrible because of the warmer climate? Not just speculation but actual fact?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 03:02:23 PM
A dear friend who passed away at 81 father was a witness at tbe Roswell crash site.
That is an interesting antecedent, but this alien in the video was supposed to have landed in Russia.
How did your friend's dad know they were alien? Was he a xenobiologist? Does he have picture? Any parts of the dead aliens bodies?
I love interesting stories, but without hard evidence they have little weight. Personal antecedents are not sufficient is you don't wish to be fooled.
People want to believe stuff so bad. I would suggest using the same skepticism on things like this as you would when someone was proposing a financial investment to you. It appears people are very easily led astray when they want to believe too badly.
You don't understand how this works. I don't need to prove the negative. The negative is assumed.
If you are claiming that is real, you are making the affirmative argument. YOU have to provide the evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
What is your extraordinary evidence to prove that is real? And you can't point to the video itself. A thing can't be it's own evidence in support of itself.
So what is your extraordinary evidence that is real?
There is a whole subreddit www.reddit.com/r/skinnybob concerned with these videos, and it still hasn't been really proven to be faked. There is 5k reward remaining if it can be proven totally fake. I've seen comments where a 25 year animation specialist thinks it's real, but others try to point out what they believe to be inconsistencies.
So it's simply up to you to decide, or you can put something together to try to go claim that 5k. ;)
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 04:08:43 PM
The nearest possibly inhabitable solar system to our own is Proxima Centauri. It's almost 4.3 light years away. Gotta wonder how these aliens pack enough food in these tiny space vehicles.
Maybe they are local.
If they are real, here would be my theory. Not a belief. But if we knew they were real and were betting who they were, what would I wager on?
Mars had oceans up to about 3.5 billion years ago. Life appears on Earth about 3.7 billion years ago. Before life appeared on Earth, Mars was still a warm, wet, habitable planet. We know ejecta from Mars impacts occasionally land up upon the Earth. It isn't common, but not unheard of. Some of those may have had Martian critters on them. https://www.space.com/33690-allen-hills-mars-meteorite-alien-life-20-years.html (https://www.space.com/33690-allen-hills-mars-meteorite-alien-life-20-years.html)
We know that simple life can survive in extended periods in the vacuum of space and be revitalized. Perhaps all life on Earth was just inoculated from Mars.
Perhaps in the 200 million years after the Earth getting knocked-up from Mars splatter, an advanced Martian civilization flourished. Perhaps they were ocean dwellers. I'd bet life always starts in the water first. I bet most often intelligent life starts there. We may be an outlier.
Perhaps over millions of years they watched as their planet slowly began to die. Not enough iron in their core generate sufficient magnetic field to prevent their atmosphere and oceans getting scoured away by solar wind. Perhaps they advanced to space travel. 200 million years is a long time to develop. Perhaps they had come to Earth and realized that life on there derived from Mars. Maybe that was very habitable for them. Maybe they look kinda like us because we have a shared DNA linage.
Perhaps they moved in and took up shop deep in our fathomless oceans. Perhaps they just keep to them selves as we mostly only barely use the oceans surface and almost nothing below. Maybe our deep ocean was a perfect new home for refugee Martians.
That might explain why they are so anthropomorphic. That might explain how they can walk around here without space suits. Maybe Martian life was at home here because it isn't too different than Mars environment 3.5 billion years ago. That might avoid the whole massive galactic distance problem. That might explain why they seem so tightly associated with the oceans. That might explain why it took us so long to start bumping into them regularly. We've only been ocean going and especially air traveling species recently in evolutionary terms.
So if they are real and turn out to be non-human origin, that would be my bet in the pool when we try and guess who they are.
Bottom line: They're Martians. But the joke is, so are we. ;)
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2023, 04:10:45 PM
There is a whole subreddit www.reddit.com/r/skinnybob concerned with these videos, and it still hasn't been really proven to be faked. There is 5k reward remaining if it can be proven totally fake. I've seen comments where a 25 year animation specialist thinks it's real, but others try to point out what they believe to be inconsistencies.
So it's simply up to you to decide, or you can put something together to try to go claim that 5k. ;)
Wow you have a learning disability. Try and pay attention. Ask for help with any big words that confuse you.
It does not have to be disproven. It has to be proven.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 29, 2023, 04:23:57 PM
Christianity will take a big knock if there is little green men.
Care to expound on that assumption? I'm a Christian. In no way does existence of extraterrestrial life contradict my belief. Plenty of very strange creatures mentioned in the Christian Bible.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Brooke on July 29, 2023, 07:01:52 PM
I had higher belief in UFO's prior to the recent large number of government leaks.
Lots of controversies for various politicians and government agencies? (http://www.radiosurvivor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Look_a_Distraction_Design_by_eecomics.jpg)
Also, why is it UFO's have a worse crash record than earthling airliners? Do they not have our 1960's terrain-avoidance radar technology? Are the UFO's piloted by drunk teenage aliens? Are the alien civilizations so advanced that they have already gone through their idiocracy transition, and all their pilots are Beef Supreme?
Why is every UFO piece of evidence a blurry low-quality image or video, or a bright dot of 3 pixels, or some radar blip or IR camera blob, or a guy telling us that someone else told them something, or some guy telling us something who makes up a bunch of crap about his personal history?
Maybe UFO's are real, but the government finally figured out that the best way to suppress the information is to tell everyone it's true.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: RUSH1 on July 29, 2023, 07:15:50 PM
I had higher belief in UFO's prior to the recent large number of government leaks.
Lots of controversies for various politicians and government agencies? (http://www.radiosurvivor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Look_a_Distraction_Design_by_eecomics.jpg)
Also, why is it UFO's have a worse crash record than earthling airliners? Do they not have our 1960's terrain-avoidance radar technology? Are the UFO's piloted by drunk teenage aliens? Are the alien civilizations so advanced that they have already gone through their idiocracy transition, and all their pilots are Beef Supreme?
Why is every UFO piece of evidence a blurry low-quality image or video, or a bright dot of 3 pixels, or some radar blip or IR camera blob, or a guy telling us that someone else told them something, or some guy telling us something who makes up a bunch of crap about his personal history?
Maybe UFO's are real, but the government finally figured out that the best way to suppress the information is to tell everyone it's true.
I could definitely see it as a distraction seeing other things going on right now they'd like us not to see. That being said, I do find it important because it proves there are other ways to fly or power objects besides our (regular peoples) current understanding. If you check out the first video I posted in the thread on page 1. The first 4 minutes shows some of the clearest UFOs I've seen, plus some orbs that are pretty interesting. As I said, some of his stuff is questionable compared to others but he throws it all out there. The one flying past plane got a lot of recognition.
The second video shows very clear military footage over Iraq that was caught. These ball objects are very interesting.
I do wonder if these are advanced top secret crafts by our aerospace programs, but there are some for sure that are simply out of this world, like the orbs in the first video.
I really like this secureteam channel. He has so much out there that you have to come to the conclusion that unexplained objects are clearly out there. Knowing that, it opens up so many possibilities that could be beneficial for man kind if they'd allow it.
Also, you have your "battle of LA incident, and also the UFOs over the Whitehouse incident that is still unexplained and creepy as hell. It's always interesting to me that hearings only show military footage and never genuine footage from people's cameras.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: AKIron on July 29, 2023, 09:38:21 PM
If there is a technologically advanced presence present this would seem to imply benevolence.
If you check out the first video I posted in the thread on page 1
The main thing for me is that I have no idea which are real videos, which are fake, (i.e., what is the solidity of provenance), and which are artifacts with mundane explanations (as in https://youtu.be/Le7Fqbsrrm8 ). A lot are a bright dot moving around, or a blob, which aren't that convincing to me regardless. Clearer ones, I wonder if they are just fakes, as there are tons of fakes around in the world.
I don't know.
We've got government people saying our government has whole craft and bodies. At some point, I'd think we'd get the UFO equivalent of Blind Man's Bluff, or of JFK and the Unspeakable.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: oboe on July 30, 2023, 06:02:44 AM
...Why is every UFO piece of evidence a blurry low-quality image or video, or a bright dot of 3 pixels, or some radar blip or IR camera blob, or a guy telling us that someone else told them something, or some guy telling us something who makes up a bunch of crap about his personal history?
I find this compelling. In this day and age of cellphone cameras, 4K video, ubiquitous surveillance, sophisticated radars, why aren't we seeing some sort of irrefutable evidence from creditable sources?
I'm open to the idea of intelligent extraterrestrial life but really do need solid evidence. I need more than personal testimonies and grainy videos.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on July 30, 2023, 06:32:42 AM
The video is out and the author is suggesting it's real. That is his proof. By not being able to prove its fake. Lends it to be proven real.
Right here buddy is an example of one of your fundamental flaws in reasoning. Thinking like this was recognised in the late 17th century as an informal logic fallacy. This means any reasoning or assertion stemming from such a proposition is not valid. This is not a personal attack, a conspiracy-theory cover up, nor in fact any commentary of the existence of aliens or not. I'm simply stating that in all domains of logical, rational, deductive or extrapolative discord, your above statement is wrong.
If you want to 'believe' aliens exist and there's been a cover up, etc. etc. that's up to you, but belief is not equatable to evidence based reasoning especially peer-reviewed, no matter what your media has conditioned you to think.
By no means.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on July 30, 2023, 07:06:10 AM
Brooke has it correct
Just the gov screaming "Squirrel "! while who knows what is really happening they are keeping out of sight...
America has grown bored with Ukraine and soon will ask them to stop sending $$$$$ we increase inflation and devalue the dollar with over there...
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 09:26:15 AM
Right here buddy is an example of one of your fundamental flaws in reasoning. Thinking like this was recognised in the late 17th century as an informal logic fallacy. This means any reasoning or assertion stemming from such a proposition is not valid. This is not a personal attack, a conspiracy-theory cover up, nor in fact any commentary of the existence of aliens or not. I'm simply stating that in all domains of logical, rational, deductive or extrapolative discord, your above statement is wrong.
If you want to 'believe' aliens exist and there's been a cover up, etc. etc. that's up to you, but belief is not equatable to evidence based reasoning especially peer-reviewed, no matter what your media has conditioned you to think.
By no means.
It's a fallacy to believe that something that someone presented is false without any backup or proof to suggest what they presented is false. Its whats wrong with your reasoning, not mine. It's not a media that has conditioned me, it's me proving the media has lied over and over again that has conditioned me not to trust them. Ie, proving them to be false on multiple things. You are the one taking them at face value and not trying to prove they are wrong, therefore the one conditioned by the media....I am looking to be proven wrong on these subjects posts in order to shape my understanding. Now I do admit that there are somethings said that don't have backup that should be lookin into, like what the official on the stand had to say and perhaps they should show more documentation or people simply won't believe even though what he says is presented to be true. It's up to us to prove him wrong if we don't believe it.
There is a reason for example why men in America are innocent until proven guilty. They can say, " I didn't do it" and they are correct 100% until they are proven wrong.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 30, 2023, 10:19:12 AM
There is a reason for example why men in America are innocent until proven guilty. They can say, " I didn't do it" and they are correct 100% until they are proven wrong.
OMG. Your grey-matter is damaged beyond repair. Seriously. I can't believe your company lets you deal with money. Can you tell us the name? I'd like to short them.
In the example you are trying to use, the government is making the affirmative claim. They are claiming the citizen committed a crime. The negative case is assumed. It is assumed the citizen did NOT commit the crime. It is up to who posited the affirmative argument to present the evidence. The negative case is assumed and requires no evidence. The point of a trial is to test the evidence the affirmative case presents. The burden of proof is on the affirmative argument.
If the video case, someone is making a claim that it is real footage of an alien. They are making an extraordinary affirmative claim. The negative case is assumed. It is assumed the video is NOT of a real alien. It is up to who posited the affirmative argument to present the evidence. The negative case is assumed and requires no evidence. The burden of proof is on the affirmative argument. The poster cannot point to his own claim and say that is his proof. That he claimed it is real, is not proof. That is circular reasoning.
I claim you eat babies and drink their adrenochrome. What is your proof you don't? My proof is that I claimed it. My claim, is the proof of my claim.
Prove I'm wrong.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 10:51:27 AM
OMG. Your grey-matter is damaged beyond repair. Seriously. I can't believe your company lets you deal with money. Can you tell us the name? I'd like to short them.
In the example you are trying to use, the government is making the affirmative claim. They are claiming the citizen committed a crime. The negative case is assumed. It is assumed the citizen did NOT commit the crime. It is up to who posited the affirmative argument to present the evidence. The negative case is assumed and requires no evidence. The point of a trial is to test the evidence the affirmative case presents. The burden of proof is on the affirmative argument.
If the video case, someone is making a claim that it is real footage of an alien. They are making an extraordinary affirmative claim. The negative case is assumed. It is assumed the video is NOT of a real alien. It is up to who posited the affirmative argument to present the evidence. The negative case is assumed and requires no evidence. The burden of proof is on the affirmative argument. The poster cannot point to his own claim and say that is his proof. That he claimed it is real, is not proof. That is circular reasoning.
I claim you eat babies and drink their adrenochrome. What is your proof you don't? My proof is that I claimed it. My claim, is the proof of my claim.
Prove I'm wrong.
Meanwhile you use an ad-hominem fallacy to try to persuade someone I'm stupid from something outside of the arguement. I'll use something outside of the arguement and suggest I'm #1 in fighter rank in AH, therefore I am smart. :D does that have anything to do with money or UFO/aliens, no it does not.
Now, back to the meat on the bone. You have the argument backwards, as usual.
How is a person who posted video evidence supposed to prove that the video is real?
You are the one making the affirmative claim by saying the video is not real. The video stands on its own. It is assumed the video was made in good standing, why would anyone lie afterall? A person cannot prove the video is anymore real than it already is, and you are claiming that it's not real. Therefore you are have to prove its not real. The video maker does not need to present evidence because they have the video and that is their case that it's real. They can go and show you the footage from their phone and say, see this is what I captured. And you have to assume from that it is real. If you create a claim that it's fake, you have to prove it in order to convince followers that it's not real. It's exactly like when the media attacks people as what they say is false aka "fact checkers".
Your last arguement is not the same. You are simply making a claim that may or may not be true. There is no outside measure like a video or pictures to acknowledge that claim. I can refute that by simply by saying, "I don't". It's up to the audience to make a determination. Now, if you had more evidence like picture or video, say you used ChatGpt to create a picture. I would then have to show that it was created by AI to prove it. Do you honestly expect that you are going to come out and say "I used ChatGPT to create the image? No, so the accused will need to provide some reasoning that the video is fake in order to level the playing field for the audience or they will assume the video is real.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 30, 2023, 10:53:12 AM
Dmonslyr, there are simply not enough face-palm memes on the internet to deal with you.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 10:59:23 AM
Dmonslyr, there are simply not enough face-palm memes on the internet to deal with you.
Sigh. If someone posted a video of your last arguement, and it was not able to be determined it was faked. Or I CANT PROVE ITS FAKE. A jury would make the logical assessment that the video is real and I'd go to jail. Would I not?
Think about how many times in history evidence was faked in order to try someone they don't like. The person was unable to prove the evidence was fake. Therefore went to jail.
A really great example of this is "My Cousin Vinny".
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 11:57:23 AM
Let's play another game.
Here is a great analysis that the filming of 911 was in many cases edited and not true. The majority of the world took the videos from the media at face value, "its the MSM, why would they lie and manipulate the public". Just like the videos of UFOs. Did the MSM ever have to prove their footage was edited and hiding things? No, they haven't, but the world takes it at face value. How is this any different than UFO videos? It's assumed that they are not lying. Just like videos presented in court.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on July 30, 2023, 01:14:23 PM
To remind you, please check, I did not present any reasoning of my own. My comment was precisely confined to the validity of your assertion and pertains to foundations of logical reasoning long-established by very intelligent people.
It's not a media that has conditioned me, it's me proving the media has lied over and over again that has conditioned me not to trust them...
Well you've just described a form of conditioning wherein automatically taking the opposite position is valid. It isn't. Anyway I wasn't referring to that but to the notion that conclusions you've arrived at yourself are equatable to those held by experts who employ rigorous method. It isn't.
Like I said already, you can believe exactly what you please, that's your prerogative and indeed responsibility. What you can't do is assert you know anything about it simply because your internal criteria has been satisfied. Not how it works. Belief ≠ evidenced reasoned theory in accordance with other known phenomenon and throwing out all the radar chaff you have will never change that.
Why don't you PM John Locke and complain. Or Carl Sagan for that matter :banana:
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 02:27:45 PM
No that's incorrect. It is of course not a fallacy to ask for verifiable evidence to support or hypothesis.
To remind you, please check, I did not present any reasoning of my own. My comment was precisely confined to the validity of your assertion and pertains to foundations of logical reasoning long-established by very intelligent people.
Well you've just described a form of conditioning wherein automatically taking the opposite position is valid. It isn't. Anyway I wasn't referring to that but to the notion that conclusions you've arrived at yourself are equatable to those held by experts who employ rigorous method. It isn't.
Like I said already, you can believe exactly what you please, that's your prerogative and indeed responsibility. What you can't do is assert you know anything about it simply because your internal criteria has been satisfied. Not how it works. Belief ≠ evidenced reasoned theory in accordance with other known phenomenon and throwing out all the radar chaff you have will never change that.
Why don't you PM John Locke and complain. Or Carl Sagan for that matter :banana:
Go back and review the posts I made after the one to you. The video is not the hypothesis. The video is the video. The hypothesis is "this video is fake" therefore you have to prove its fake. That is the logic. Just like the man in the pub showing everyone his video of the crop circle. He says "it's true, it's right here on my camera". What more evidence can he show you that it's real and not fake? If you said, nah man that's fake. You are making the claim, you have to prove the claim or most will say it's true under the "good faith" assumption. Which is how MSM works. Do they ever have to prove their videos and films? No.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on July 30, 2023, 02:43:19 PM
The hypothesis is "this video is fake" therefore you have to prove its fake. That is the logic.
No, that's simply an attempt at an expedient reversal of logic. I'm sorry you don't understand, I do feel a bit bad for you. In contrast to some of the abhorrent unintelligentsia of the AH forum I don't dislike you. I have tried in sincerity to help you out :salute
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 02:51:04 PM
No, that's simply an attempt at an expedient reversal of logic. I'm sorry you don't understand, I do feel a bit bad for you. In contrast to some of the abhorrent unintelligentsia of the AH forum I don't dislike you. I have tried in sincerity to help you out :salute
Tell that to every man in prison due to video evidence of their crimes then :rofl
I don't dislike you or people in argeument and logic debates. I dislike when they try to make me and others feel bad because I don't agree with their idea of argument and logic.
My simple argument is "if you say the video is fake, then you have to prove it".
Your argument is "the video is fake and therfore they have to prove its not".
The qualm is that In a rational debate, you have to start with the premise that they are presenting in good faith. You are starting with the premise that they are not, but not backing up that claim. See the difference?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 30, 2023, 06:43:55 PM
If you present video as evidence the burden of proof is on you. There is no requirement to prove it wrong. There is certainly a presumption of good faith but there is also the necessary practice of verifying the evidence that you provide.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 06:47:45 PM
Regardless of the haters and deniers. Let's get back on the subject. Here is a great presentation in 2009 from a very knowledgeable source. Who has been studying this for a long time and written a few books on the subject. This is my sorta beginners guide presentation for those who are interested in the phenomenon.
If you present video as evidence the burden of proof is on you. There is no requirement to prove it wrong. There is certainly a presumption of good faith but there is also the necessary practice of verifying the evidence that you provide.
The video IS the "proof" they are presenting, lol. If I go into a pub and say "I've got a film of a UFO making crop circles". That's my proof. It lends far more "credibility" than me simply saying I saw one. I tell them, I saw a UFO making crop circles. Here is the "proof" with a video I took. What else is the person going to show other than a recording? Again, refer back to my posts explaining this.
Yall need to go re-watch My Cousin Vinny.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 30, 2023, 07:06:22 PM
The video IS the "proof" they are presenting, lol. If I go into a pub and say "I've got a film of a UFO making crop circles". That's my proof. It lends far more "credibility" than me simply saying I saw one. I tell them, I saw a UFO making crop circles. Here is the "proof" with a video I took. What else is the person going to show other than a recording? Again, refer back to my posts explaining this.
Yall need to go re-watch My Cousin Vinny.
the fly billions of miles thru space to make circles, think about that. would be impressed and believe it if the make circles in the white house lawn. that would be proof.
semp
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 30, 2023, 07:14:41 PM
the fly billions of miles thru space to make circles, think about that. would be impressed and believe it if the make circles in the white house lawn. that would be proof.
semp
I would suggest watching the presentation I just posted.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: guncrasher on July 30, 2023, 08:07:28 PM
Regardless of the haters and deniers. Let's get back on the subject. Here is a great presentation in 2009 from a very knowledgeable source. Who has been studying this for a long time and written a few books on the subject. This is my sorta beginners guide presentation for those who are interested in the phenomenon.
I dislike when they try to make me and others feel bad because I don't agree with their idea of argument and logic.
Right here is the flaw in your education, upbringing, background, culture, whatever it is: it is not our idea of argument or logic. It is not a case of equal preference of one thing over an other. The foundation of a rigorous argument was laid several hundred years ago and forms the background of millions on man-hours of work and thought. Those who use it have more to assert over those who don't. You can throw up whatever YouTube video you like or movie scene which 'explains it' but you have nothing convincing to say unless you accept the rules of the 'game'.
The qualm is that In a rational debate, you have to start with the premise that they are presenting in good faith.
No that's wrong again. Even a premise (or a hypothesis) you've arrived at yourself must be treated with scepticism. It's just the way the mind of a homo sapiens flows. Having evolved in a cluttered environment it's a known predisposition which is therefore compensated for in the above mentioned workflow. It's just unfortunately that that shape of mind is vulnerable to this.
In general (UFOs, man-made climate change etc. notwithstanding) your sin is that you form an idea and gather evidence to support that idea, dismissing that which does not accord with your idea. In other words, you let your 'theory', your 'premiss' or your 'feeling' filter all of the 'data' you find in a cart-before-the-horse stylee. It isn't unreasonable to come up with a hypothesis and then validate it against other known phenomena and knowledge BUT! with the idea that you are trying to disprove it, not prove it.
I want to take issue with this point as it's teetering on the edge of an ad hominem argument which is disrespectful and you already criticised Captain Trips for doing the same. I am not a hater, nor have I forwarded my own thoughts on aliens. What I have been doing in this thread is showing you where your chain of reasoning is flawed and the implications of that.
Pertinent to this discussion:-
"Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa. (e.g., There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. Or: There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Carl Sagan (circa 1995).
It is bordering on primitive pre-religion to not be able to tolerate ambiguity. In fact there is quite a lot of that around and it's still far better than making 5h!t up to fill in gaps. :banana:
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 07:57:26 AM
Right here is the flaw in your education, upbringing, background, culture, whatever it is: it is not our idea of argument or logic. It is not a case of equal preference of one thing over an other. The foundation of a rigorous argument was laid several hundred years ago and forms the background of millions on man-hours of work and thought. Those who use it have more to assert over those who don't. You can throw up whatever YouTube video you like or movie scene which 'explains it' but you have nothing convincing to say unless you accept the rules of the 'game'.
No that's wrong.
No that's wrong again. Even a premise (or a hypothesis) you've arrived at yourself must be treated with scepticism. It's just the way the mind of a homo sapiens flows. Having evolved in a cluttered environment it's a known predisposition which is therefore compensated for in the above mentioned workflow. It's just unfortunately that that shape of mind is vulnerable to this.
In general (UFOs, man-made climate change etc. notwithstanding) your sin is that you form an idea and gather evidence to support that idea, dismissing that which does not accord with your idea. In other words, you let your 'theory', your 'premiss' or your 'feeling' filter all of the 'data' you find in a cart-before-the-horse stylee. It isn't unreasonable to come up with a hypothesis and then validate it against other known phenomena and knowledge BUT! with the idea that you are trying to disprove it, not prove it.
I want to take issue with this point as it's teetering on the edge of an ad hominem argument which is disrespectful and you already criticised Captain Trips for doing the same. I am not a hater, nor have I forwarded my own thoughts on aliens. What I have been doing in this thread is showing you where your chain of reasoning is flawed and the implications of that.
Pertinent to this discussion:-
"Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa. (e.g., There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. Or: There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Carl Sagan (circa 1995).
It is bordering on primitive pre-religion to not be able to tolerate ambiguity. In fact there is quite a lot of that around and it's still far better than making 5h!t up to fill in gaps. :banana:
I've actually taken an arguement and logic class. Was actually a really tough class. Who knew so much math was involved. In any case, there is no "Flaw my culture/background", as you wish to discredit my approach to reasoning and understanding... I'm pointing out how your approach to this particular arguement is incorrect because you are assuming the video is the hypothesis/theory rather than the proof being presented. In any case in court, if I have a video showing you stealing a peice of candy, the jury is going to believe the video is real. If they can identify you, they will use it to prosecute you, UNLESS, you can prove its not you or hire a forensic expert to prove it was created by AI. That would change the Jurys opinion, would it not? That's how it works man. Again, refer to the 911 film I posted. When has the media had to prove their footage wasn't the truth? They haven't. Its true because "that's the video proof they are showing us". It's being shown as truth, taken by the public as truth, therefore it is "true in the eyes of the public" because surely they wouldnt deceive us right? So this guy is trying to "prove" that they have deceived us in some way because he doesnt belive it. Do you understand that? So you can try to discredit my approach all you want, but I have shown here that you are merely trying to trick the audience by discrediting the way I present information so as the audience doesn't take the time to research the information I've presented. A clever way to keep people's heads in the sand rather than expand their understanding of the subject.
By claiming "muh youtube video" you disregard anything in the video and lump it into some idea that it shouldn't be acknowledged because it's "muh youtube video and they are all the same". See, you are acknowledging that you haven't taken the time to understand the information I have provided. Therefore, I have infact done more research to come to my conclusions that there is a phenomenon going on, and it's being recorded in human history. You are trying to discredit that by attacking the way I argue and present ideas or understanding of the information.
I don't just go into the subject believing it the way I want, however you have to start somewhere. If I believe I'm being lied to, I will research to find holes in the lie. I will also acknowledge what they are saying as in good faith, however If I am unable to find holes in their line of research than I will begin to accept that their presentation is infact correct. As with man made global warming, you and others are asserting their research is correct while disregarding any counter arguement/claim being made just like Bard did. You see, I never asserted that films were 100% the truth. I'm just throwing them out there so people can expand their thinking on the subject like I have and possibly understand that all of these different angles I am posting may infact lead some to do more research into the subject because through multiple examples its proven that there is a phenomenon. If you don't want to acknowledge that, it's your own problem and you can present data to counter it, rather than attack my arguement structure. Like Man made global warming, you can stand up there and present your "proof" and "truths" all day long, but people are still going to challenge that data and ask questions against that "proof" because that's how it works when it comes to "what is really truth and what isn't". Just because 10 state backed organizations throw something in your face as "truth based on the data" that doesn't mean it won't get challenged, and you are the ones not acknowledging counter arguements and simply writing every thing off in the same basket as "disinfo", to get people to not do more research into those claims. This is exactly what happened with Covid as well, where they even had to ban sources challenging them, so others wouldnt do more research agaisnt their "truth". Imagine that.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 08:32:29 AM
An interesting fellow. I'd have to go through his book or books, though, as his presentation is a brief overview of those.
I'd say he comes across very intellegent and researched. He has more interviews as well I'm listening to. I'm sure his books break down many examples of his findings. Probably worth a read.
Have you heard of a book called "Ring Makers of Saturn? By Norman Bergrun. Very interesting, and it's very expensive now. He truely believed something was creating the rings.
Here's a great interview with him. https://odysee.com/@PROJECTCAMELOT:d/project-camelot-norman-bergrun:2
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 31, 2023, 08:44:50 AM
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 31, 2023, 09:04:24 AM
The video IS the "proof" they are presenting, lol. If I go into a pub and say "I've got a film of a UFO making crop circles". That's my proof. It lends far more "credibility" than me simply saying I saw one. I tell them, I saw a UFO making crop circles. Here is the "proof" with a video I took. What else is the person going to show other than a recording? Again, refer back to my posts explaining this.
Yall need to go re-watch My Cousin Vinny.
You do know video can be faked, which is why it's offered as proof of things that aren't real. As you point out, it's more convincing. Watching a professional video of a fictional story written for entertainment isn't going to change my mind about the rules of evidence. You have to keep an open mind about these things.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2023, 09:19:27 AM
I trust some third party eye witness accounts and the Navy tic-tac videos are eye opening. I wouldn't buy stock in it without seeing for myself though.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on July 31, 2023, 09:22:15 AM
In any case, there is no "Flaw my culture/background", as you wish to discredit my approach to reasoning and understanding...
Somewhere and somehow along the way you learned to favour the conspiracy-theory end of the spectrum, and developed your own tools to strengthen what presents as a coping strategy in an overly authoritative culture. Would be my guess. The amount of energy you put into this is suggestive. You seem to love it. You're sure you're right, and the notion you're onto something that most don't also see somehow empowers you - is a big clue here. You're more sure than I am about aliens and man-made global warning. Counterintuitively this doesn't mean you know more about it!
I can see we've already surpassed the point of further discussing this ad infinitum. Tempting to interpret others dropping out of the argument implying you are correct. I fear it's more the case of you continuing to shrink your credibility to the point of people just not giving you any feedback or reality-checks at all. Which is dangerous. To you. Just think about it* :salute
*What are the chances :)
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2023, 09:23:49 AM
Watched a "documentary" years ago about Roswell primarily. One thing that stood out quite loudly. The daughter of the base commander that investigated the '47 incident told her he was sworn to secrecy by the US President. If that's true it can only mean a coverup which demands scrutiny.
It was a long time ago I saw that documentary and I may have the facts wrong based on what I just found. https://www.sbs.com.au/whats-on/article/my-father-saw-the-bodies-chasing-the-truth-about-roswell/thp111yiy
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 09:30:57 AM
You do know video can be faked, which is why it's offered as proof of things that aren't real. As you point out, it's more convincing. Watching a professional video of a fictional story written for entertainment isn't going to change my mind about the rules of evidence. You have to keep an open mind about these things.
Sure, of course video can be faked and edited. But I am persistent to my point that why doesn't MSM have to provide more "proof" on their 911 films that suggest they weren't edited to manipulate especially when called out. It only seems that in this specific case, that any films whatsoever, no matter how many there are, don't provide any credibility to the non-believer. It's like if I took a video of a jet flying by. You'd say, provide more proof, but I showing you the video of my documented proof of a jet flying by. What more "proof" are you looking for? Proving that it's fake is the proof that the video isn't infact credible.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 31, 2023, 09:35:40 AM
I trust some third party eye witness accounts and the Navy tic-tac videos are eye opening. I wouldn't buy stock in it without seeing for myself though.
That is a proper attitude.
One issue on the Navy sightings. Whatever they are, many are obviously some kind of solid object in 3d space and there have been multiple near collision incidents. Maybe they are so advanced they didn't see any danger, but from our point of view, they clearly present a potential navigational hazard. They are not squawking a transponder, they are not in radio communication, they do not follow our airspace rules, do not respect our restricted airspaces and seem willing to make dangerously close approaches to military aircraft. If for no reason than our pilots safety, we should get to the bottom of what they are. They are a clear potential navigational hazard if nothing else.
I feel pretty convinced that it is not likely they are Russian or Chinese. If it is DARPA, they are behaving really out of character. Super ultra secret DARPA projects tend to try and keep a lower profile and not buzz fighter aircraft for the lulz, and joyride over nuclear installations. So I don't know what they are, but we shouldn't ignore them.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 31, 2023, 09:43:36 AM
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.
Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 09:46:19 AM
Somewhere and somehow along the way you learned to favour the conspiracy-theory end of the spectrum, and developed your own tools to strengthen what presents as a coping strategy in an overly authoritative culture. Would be my guess. The amount of energy you put into this is suggestive. You seem to love it. You're sure you're right, and the notion you're onto something that most don't also see somehow empowers you - is a big clue here. You're more sure than I am about aliens and man-made global warning. Counterintuitively this doesn't mean you know more about it!
I can see we've already surpassed the point of further discussing this ad infinitum. Tempting to interpret others dropping out of the argument implying you are correct. I fear it's more the case of you continuing to shrink your credibility to the point of people just not giving you any feedback or reality-checks at all. Which is dangerous. To you. Just think about it* :salute
*What are the chances :)
I'm just posting interviews, presentations, films, and pictures by researchers from documented cases. That is where I get my understanding of the subject. Its not like I am making things up just to say it. I take the "conspiracy" side as you call it because the side that's supposedly the "truth tellers" are not being honest and it's been clear for 7 years if you haven't noticed...
BTW, do the top gun pilots who captured these UFO videos need to provide more "proof" that these videos are infact real? I mean, i don't see anyone on the stand asking "hey sir, can prove those videos are real"? Further, since it is actual Top Gun pilots who presented these videos to a congressional hearing, isn't that supposed to mean you agree with it since it's "official"? Or are you discrediting Top Gun Pilots in order to make me seem less credible?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.
Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.
Seems I read that the F-18 encounters with the "tic-tacs" were the result of being sortied to investigate multiple boat radar tracks over a period of a couple of days. That would rule out equipment failure I think.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 31, 2023, 09:53:25 AM
:rolleyes:
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on July 31, 2023, 09:57:16 AM
Seems I read that the F-18 encounters with the "tic-tacs" were the result of being sortied to investigate multiple boat radar tracks over a period of a couple of days. That would rule out equipment failure I think.
In the Tic-Tac case including being visually examined by multiple aircraft and multiple trained pilots from different angles and altitudes over an extended amount of time. There was some kind of physical object there, whatever it was. It appeared to be controlled and moved with conscious intent.
Different cases may have different weight. Some cases out there are probably equipment glitches, but incidents like the Tic-Tac are hard to dismiss.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 09:57:23 AM
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.
Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.
You should atleast watch the analysis of it I posted and then make a determination. Btw, I've always wondered why no outside video of the Pentagon showed a plane losing tremendous alt to hit the building. All we get is a split second of it hitting. You'd think they would have more film if they wanted us to be "sure".
In AH, you present the AH film to HTC as it's infact someone cheating. Then hitech analyzes the film and uses other methods to dispell that the person is cheating. Sorta like analyzing a film to see if it's been edited and faked in order to "prove" its not legit.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 10:04:29 AM
Btw, I'm not ruling out man made, aerospace engineered aircrafts. It's very likely they could be. And no one high up wants to admit it because of national security and other issues it would cause. However, we are finally getting some retribution that there IS infact "unexplained objects" flying around.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nopoop on July 31, 2023, 10:58:57 AM
And then....there is building number seven...
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 31, 2023, 11:09:12 AM
You should atleast watch the analysis of it I posted and then make a determination. Btw, I've always wondered why no outside video of the Pentagon showed a plane losing tremendous alt to hit the building. All we get is a split second of it hitting. You'd think they would have more film if they wanted us to be "sure".
In AH, you present the AH film to HTC as it's infact someone cheating. Then hitech analyzes the film and uses other methods to dispell that the person is cheating. Sorta like analyzing a film to see if it's been edited and faked in order to "prove" its not legit.
The point is AHfilm is data, youtube is a presentation of ahfilm that can be misleading. As to the Pentagon they had an aircraft fuselage full of dead people inside the building. It's not a mystery.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 31, 2023, 11:30:59 AM
The point is AHfilm is data, youtube is a presentation of ahfilm that can be misleading. As to the Pentagon they had an aircraft fuselage full of dead people inside the building. It's not a mystery.
Sure sure I understand that, but it's what we have to work with. I'm not entirely sure how someone who wants to release a film would present it so as to prove it's the "original" since it's hard to show that without putting it onto a medium for lots of people to see. Depends on the timing of the film and technology of film at that time. Nowadays, it should be pretty easy to analyze metadata of the source, but simply going to an authority with it isn't going to do a whole lot of good...
Not so sure they ever showed proof of dead bodies at the Pentagon, and no leaks or any such thing. Just have to take their word for it... certainly convenient the place it hit though.
However, I was just using the footage and analysis the guy made as an example that they never have to "prove" their footage, even though so many questioned it, is my point.
Probably good that we move the discussion back to UFOs and Aliens, much more fun. :aok
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on July 31, 2023, 11:48:08 AM
BTW, as to logic, it's true that logical fallacies don't support an argument, but that doesn't prove the conclusion is wrong either. :aok
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on July 31, 2023, 12:47:15 PM
"Squirrel!"
And the daily corruption/lies continues..
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Shuffler on August 01, 2023, 01:02:23 PM
Yall will never know until we want you to know.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 01, 2023, 01:46:09 PM
There is plenty of time to look at both IMO, no reason to not look at flying machines in our atmosphere and question how they are flying so as to advance society with this magnificent engineering.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Brooke on August 01, 2023, 03:49:38 PM
Video evidence would be a lot more convincing if it weren't rife with hoaxes. Now we need solid provenance in addition.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Arlo on August 01, 2023, 08:24:35 PM
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 02, 2023, 09:50:51 AM
I think they are out there, but are slowly conditioning the public as to not create a panic. Some are good and some are bad from what I've looked into. There have actually been videos on Secure team channel where it appears things are getting energy from the sun and blasting off as per the "type 2" society. I've heard of a galactic federation of sorts based out of Andromeda. There's a whole bunch of crazy stuff out there. Who knows if it's true, but when you have military folk telling you this stuff, like Bob Dean for example, you have to consider it with a grain of salt.
I look at it this way. It use to take months to sail across the Atlantic. Now it takes hours to fly across the Atlantic. It will be the same way when we finally understand or realize space travel on a public level.
Video evidence would be a lot more convincing if it weren't rife with hoaxes. Now we need solid provenance in addition.
There are lots of files, claims, and documentation out there recorded from many. It's all about how much you really choose to look into it. The issue is that people choose not to believe it. I mean you could have the aliens walk out on stage at a hearing and people would still question it... the issue is that when a source such as the military shows un identified crafts they record and says here's a ball flying over Iraq and we aren't sure what it is... it's really the only evidence they can present to the fact that there was something there. The only real way for people to be convinced is through their own personal sightings.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: FLS on August 02, 2023, 02:23:47 PM
The idea that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe seems reasonable. The idea that they are here and trying and failing to communicate is unlikely.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on August 02, 2023, 03:03:52 PM
Hopefully they watched this movie
I think we will kill ourselves if left up to our own leadership
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on August 02, 2023, 03:13:53 PM
I think they are out there, but are slowly conditioning the public as to not create a panic. Some are good and some are bad from what I've looked into.
You're suggesting internet rumour, dubious sightings of their vehicles and definitely non-hoax videos on YouTube is their chosen method to introduce themselves instead of say, subtly advancing human energy and resource technology to remove the inherent drive for global conflict, revealing some of the present human impasses in theoretical physics and teaching us how to evolve our little ape-brains perhaps with augmentation in a sophisticated demonstration of benevolence and inclusion? Really? What are they alien trolls brah?
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Brooke on August 03, 2023, 01:51:10 AM
I mean you could have the aliens walk out on stage at a hearing and people would still question it... the issue is that when a source such as the military shows un identified crafts they record and says here's a ball flying over Iraq and we aren't sure what it is... it's really the only evidence they can present to the fact that there was something there. The only real way for people to be convinced is through their own personal sightings.
Here are my reservations with that.
In the example of aliens walking out on stage. Am I up close, looking it in the face, shaking its hand, and talking to it? Can I tell if it's a latex suit? Or am I 50 rows back in a sea of humanity where I can't tell anything? Or, am I seeing a video of it? Or am I hearing about it from some random person who was there who can't tell if it's a hoax? Or a person who says he was there, and I don't even know if that is true?
In the example of the ball over Iraq, is it really from the military? A couple of UFOlogists say it is. Regardless, the video I can see isn't that compelling to me for technical reasons.
However --
If we could get the level of evidence like we see in "JFK and the Unspeakable", by Douglass (a book you'd love, DmonSlyr -- I highly recommend it and think it's awesome), or in "Blindman's Bluff", by Sontag, Drew, and Drew -- that would drastically change my skepticism. Seems to me there ought to be at least that much solid evidence out there to gather as for those topics.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on August 03, 2023, 04:21:39 AM
In the example of aliens walking out on stage. Am I up close, looking it in the face, shaking its hand, and talking to it? Can I tell if it's a latex suit?
Obviously a live & public dissection on stage - by professionals - would be the only way to be sure and see their insides and how they tick. It'd be their own fault for coming to 'our planet' in the first place :banana:
It's most unlike Violator to not respond to such a topic overnight I do hope he's simply occupied on YouTube as the only other explanation I can think of involves alien probing. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Well maybe -gg- and KnorB. :rofl
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on August 03, 2023, 07:03:04 AM
Record corruption abounds....but...look over there....
"Squirrel!"
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: guncrasher on August 03, 2023, 12:32:21 PM
Obviously a live & public dissection on stage - by professionals - would be the only way to be sure and see their insides and how they tick. It'd be their own fault for coming to 'our planet' in the first place :banana:
It's most unlike Violator to not respond to such a topic overnight I do hope he's simply occupied on YouTube as the only other explanation I can think of involves alien probing. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Well maybe -gg- and KnorB. :rofl
Month end close... no time for nothing :bhead though you aren't gonna catch me on that late on a Weeknight lol.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: nrshida on August 03, 2023, 03:01:28 PM
It could just be that other people are not as one dimensional.
They could find other things in life that interest them besides politics, politics, politics.
They may not see everything in the universe through that narrow lens.
A lot of the other people only get their news from two certain specific news sites. If it isnt on there or if it disagrees with what they are spoon fed, it is misinformation and it must disappear
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 03, 2023, 07:09:48 PM
Researching aliens and people's stories are far more fun than politics. :aok
Certainly more interesting that all politics all the time. Where every single event in life is passed through a political lens. Where nothing in life can be appreciated without pushing a political stance on the topic.
So yes, every once in a while but aside the political talking points and enjoy some other interesting facets of the world around us.
There really is more to life than just politics.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: GasTeddy on August 04, 2023, 01:56:58 PM
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on August 04, 2023, 02:41:39 PM
Of course there is but there are also distractions to divert attention from more important issues..but keep wondering if something that doesn't affect any part of your lives deserves more attention than things that do and are amazingly corrupt and ignored by those that should be investigating them because little green men stories are easier to digest for many
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on August 04, 2023, 03:49:48 PM
Really?
So reports of possible non-human activity on our planet wouldn't rank as a newsworthy story, in and of itself, without you "wondering" if it's just some distraction from your political conspiracy fetish of the day?
You have lost your way.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on August 04, 2023, 05:22:03 PM
It is neat news for sure..
I think it is because I don't have any doubts that there are other life forms than our own but care less about it than most must as they have different beliefs on the subject
Enjoy your aliens 👽
:cheers:
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Busher on August 04, 2023, 08:45:06 PM
I think it is because I don't have any doubts that there are other life forms than our own but care less about it than most must as they have different beliefs on the subject
Enjoy your aliens 👽
:cheers:
Eagler
what I find amazing is that perhaps 30 or 50 players post here, and whatever which way but lose. you think somehow our opinions shape the rest of the country.
semp
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Eagler on August 05, 2023, 07:15:29 AM
what I find amazing is that perhaps 30 or 50 players post here, and whatever which way but lose. you think somehow our opinions shape the rest of the country.
semp
Thanks semp..I was wondering what I was thinking again and if anyone knows it is you for sure :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Brooke on August 05, 2023, 01:50:03 PM
They do! People can talk about the Illuminati, the Committee of 300, etc. But we are the real shapers of destiny. It all starts in AH Scenarios, of course.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: CptTrips on August 05, 2023, 02:35:54 PM
They do! People can talk about the Illuminati, the Committee of 300, etc. But we are the real shapers of destiny. It all starts in AH Scenarios, of course.
:rofl :aok
Live History. Change History. ;)
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 09, 2023, 10:43:05 AM
Interesting comments from a fighter pilot about the whistle blower testimony and other things regarding UFOs.
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: Animl-AW on August 09, 2023, 10:55:40 AM
what I find amazing is that perhaps 30 or 50 players post here, and whatever which way but lose. you think somehow our opinions shape the rest of the country.
semp
And this
Title: Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: morfiend on August 10, 2023, 09:51:54 AM
Interesting comments from a fighter pilot about the whistle blower testimony and other things regarding UFOs.
You need to see what DR.Steven Greer has to say about all this. I’d link some of his stuff but I just don’t know where to start,best left for anyone interested to research for themselves.
I do like that he calls the Tesla car the musk mobile as he thinks it’s an injustice to call 100 year old tech new and name it after the man who wanted to transmit electricity wirelessly to every one for free….. :bolt: