General Forums => Films and Screenshots => Topic started by: Animl-AW on September 01, 2023, 04:38:27 PM
Title: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 01, 2023, 04:38:27 PM
I'm not sure if this is an intended video, or a experimental scratch pad. I do know it's new. I put a front and back-end on it stuck a fork in it and called it a video, <shrug>
I simply just picked a file to use to get to know Vegas Pro. I made this film my first 1-1.5 months back in the game. Kinda picked at it for 2 months like a crossword puzzle left on the table, walk by insert a few pieces, move on, rinse and repeat. I kept picking at it until it evolved into something. This was all about learning Vegas Pro. I have to admit, starting from scratch on settings, designing a new workflow, figuring out Vegas , better yet getting decent shots,.... was a serious PITA. But I only have to do that once.
.AVI file size = 69G .MP4 file size for YT = 1.7G (High-end quality took a little hit, but made it viewable without a monster PC)
A far as high-end graphics this thing is a beast. Running the rendered 69G AVI file...my computer coughs blood when it gets to 40% terrain. Beautiful stuff tho. I'm running a Custom Dell XPS with NVidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti, 16G memory.
A mistake, I learned mid way through was I screen shot at 1080 HD, instead of 1440 HD. The conversions to 1440 x 2550 gave me a touch of banding in the fog (grumble). lesson learned for the next video. You need at least this resolution to get into the HD codec in YouTube.
If it turns out horrible on YT I can upload the 69G version, but that will probably take 5hrs.
It is what it is. But it's new.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: oboe on September 01, 2023, 05:39:27 PM
I thought it was great; it held my interest right to the end!
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 01, 2023, 06:15:01 PM
It's fixed, video link in post corrected.
headphones are best.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: The Fugitive on September 02, 2023, 08:30:19 AM
I thought it was pretty good too. Certainly not a training video, but not quite an "epic" video. A few of the shots werent really needed..... flying upside down at tree top level while evading the 109 and I think took away from the video for me because that really wouldnt happen as there is no point.
Saying that I know its a first shot, I know its a learning experience so my comments are me just being picky :)
The quality of the video is pretty good. It was pretty smooth and the cuts were good and kept the story flowing. I can see how hard it is to get the "shots" you want having messed around with the wonky film viewer a bit myself. Maybe more practice with the film viewer may help. I know some other have gotten some really good shots for their videos. Maybe it was luck, or maybe it just takes more practice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Over all for a first run with learning new programs and such, I thought it was pretty good. WTG!
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 02, 2023, 10:21:01 AM
I thought it was pretty good too. Certainly not a training video, but not quite an "epic" video. A few of the shots werent really needed..... flying upside down at tree top level while evading the 109 and I think took away from the video for me because that really wouldnt happen as there is no point.
Saying that I know its a first shot, I know its a learning experience so my comments are me just being picky :)
The quality of the video is pretty good. It was pretty smooth and the cuts were good and kept the story flowing. I can see how hard it is to get the "shots" you want having messed around with the wonky film viewer a bit myself. Maybe more practice with the film viewer may help. I know some other have gotten some really good shots for their videos. Maybe it was luck, or maybe it just takes more practice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Over all for a first run with learning new programs and such, I thought it was pretty good. WTG!
Ya certainly wasn't "epic", I was going to do some of Violator's videos he gave me, but didn't want to pork his stuff up learning Vegas. I'm doing his next, which are much more entertaining.
I almost didn't even post it.
I wanted to get caught up on Vegas before the next scenario.
VR does make life easier with realistic hand held cam, or natural head view, i don't have that. So I mimicked it with zoom variations so the AC didn't look docked. You'll notice that more in the last shot under the 51 before the fly away in the end.
Upside down was just clowning around taunting. It also helped slow me down, and the corkscrew did it more. That's how I ended up behind him. It was hard to cut that portion out as it was in the main timeline too. too close together for that end shot to make sense. I was going to make no cuts in time. Sometimes this works, end result, not always.
What I am glad is that no one noticed the sounds. You don't hear exterior sounds like that of your own plane. So for each clip was shot twice, the second from fixed ,... took the fixed sound shot where you do get the true exterior sound, and replaced the sound with the Fixed track. If ya didn't notice then it worked. You'll only notice when it's done wrong. :)
The P-51 was a true PITA, as the sound keeps cutting out, in and out in and out,.. really bad. SO replacing the sound files to fix that had to be done. The p-51 sound was actually not even working in exterior mode 30% of the time. So a lot of what you hear was replacement files.
A video this heavy,.. I cashed Vegas at least 100 times, some due to a sound FX rack I put in every take. Compressors probably caused it.
Get scenes right was a lower priority. It's about how much can I put this through and what are the limits. I found them.
I used the Lagarith Lossless Video Codec in both Bandicam and Vegas. https://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html
The process of this video was a little more complex. I used full detail in AH game (everything 100%), except Lens Flare disabled. I used full detail graphics on my Nvidia graphics card. All scene clip files were edited in high quality .AVI file format. All sound is in high quality .WAV format. I did my own sound mix in AH3 game specifically for the video.
To get all this high quality detail (and audio) to draw instantly in the video I had to do all screen captures of AHFV in slow motion > (.40x) < using .AVI format in Bandicam. Then in Vegas Pro, to run it back up to exact realtime speed, I set the playback speed to > 2.72 <. This process added a lot more FPS, but also a lot bigger files.
This creates an audio problem as running it back up to correct VIDEO speed, runs the AUDIO speed way too fast. It's just the nature of the beast the way the game/AHFV and screen capture works when playing with different recorded speeds.
Therefore, every single scene clip/take had to be done twice.
I forced a video director at work at gun point to watch my first 2 videos. He directs the ts the cameramen and then decides when to implement that cam shot. He can have as many as 8- cams to direct at the same time.This guy does live directing very well. what takes me hours to decide on a shot he does in seconds. I asked him to give me some tips.
He told me, to watch Top Gun and ask myself why did they use that shot, what were they showing. He said Dogfight s like Top Gun are very hard to do, as every shot is a good shot. i asked him when do I change shot and why,.. he said,.. no order, I simply change shots as soon as the current bores me. There is no science to it, it's all on feeling. This guy is a monster director, I sat and watched him work at work,.. how his brain flows is stunning to me. People say audio is the hardest part, but watching him I find that to not be true,... second to second thinking. The whole video was a test on several concepts.
1) Record slow motion in AHFV at .40x for video file to be used. 2) Re-Record same scene at 1.x (real-time) for audio file to be used. 3) In Vegas, set the .40x video file to run playback rate at >> 2.72 <<. 4) Remove the .40x audio and replace it with the 1.x audio file.
Using exact starting points in the AHFV made syncing video and audio exact very easy.
Because of the use of high quality detail in .AVI format there are 400G+ of scene clips. Finished video in .AVI is 78G (8 min video, that's almost 1G per minute). it's so damn pretty. Finished video in .MP4 is 1.5G (Youtube upload version)
The .AVI video is so heavy that my desktop can't pull it, it coughed blood. It's just too much to draw. It requires a monster machine to pull that train. I have to dumb it down to high quality .MP4 format just to view it properly on a 50" 4k TV.
AUDIO Every scene/take/clip,...has 1 volume fader, 1 compressor, 1 31 band Graphic EQ (26 of each total).
I call how I did things "Hollywood Style", the sounds you hear are manufactured. The way I did it was easier then true Hollywood movies, but same concept.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: The Fugitive on September 02, 2023, 11:49:54 AM
I hope you like doing these because Id love to see more as you progress. Its great to see and hear what CAN be done.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 02, 2023, 01:50:10 PM
I hope you like doing these because Id love to see more as you progress. Its great to see and hear what CAN be done.
I like doing something as long as I can get the max out of it. If it's fubar I lose interest.
As far as graphic quality, I'm probably 2 notches below what the max can be in this video. VR people get the closest to max. What is really there, which is crazy detail, is rarely seen. Flames and explosions need some TLC, which I was hoping to do, but don't have keys to the car.
Another experiment I have in mind, which I can do, is stereophonic vision film. I'm not sure if that would work in VR or not, I don't own one. But it would require glasses of some form. The human eye does NOT actually see in 3D. We are 3D creatures, living in a 3D world but our eyes can show us only two dimensions. The depth that we all think we can see is merely a trick that our brains have learned; a byproduct of evolution putting our eyes on the front of our faces. Once/IF I get this system nailed down I might try it.
My initial concept was not for ME to make films, but to come up with a system that makes it easier for others to produce high quality graphics. Weeding out what is necessary and what is not. Some just have a natural eye for gripping takes. I do like doing it tho, it's a good time waster.
I think a true "epic" video may come from the collaborations of 2-3 people with slightly different skill sets, to make it a nice full rounded video.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: oboe on September 02, 2023, 03:15:20 PM
Animal - have you heard of the Tobii eye-tracker? I think it might be the best non-VR compromise there is out there. Its a unit the clips onto your monitor, and interprets both your head AND eye movements, and translates those into your view.
It might provide the most natural head movement in a video. Might be worth looking into.
I loved the sounds, and as far as I'm concerned you can double to volume. I can't recall, but did you use a muffled, lower volume engine sound when inside the cockpit? I found that to be very effective in other (DCS?) videos I've seen.
You're a colorful writer; I hope you throw together an AH film viewer-Vegas tutorial at some point, so your knowledge and experience can be passed on.
<S>
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 02, 2023, 04:44:49 PM
All sounds are default and as is in game. We just don't bop in and out and A-B the difference. This game sounds better then many think. Many have their sound mix in a way that mask other things going on. I had a post about this months back. The actually game sound mix is my game mix, designed to not mask other sounds,...which most do with loud unrealistic interior engine volume.
I didn't muffle the interior engine sound, I think FMOD takes care of that. Interior -vs- Exterior. We can't hear exterior high tones through glass/metal etc..
My full intent is to share information, for their use, and they may find a better trick too. I'll put it in a simplified version, I'm just spewing drivel here.
Here's what I did for every audio file used. They all got the same exact treatment. 1) Normalized to -1 (gives headroom for adding enhancements) 2) 31 Band EQed just to cut a few irritating mid-range frequencies, no major changes, just because I could. 3) Expanded stereo-image just a touch (stereo is a little wider) 4) Normalized to 0
Sounds time-consuming, but with presets I made for all files,.... 10 seconds per file. :)
Now I have all sounds at the same exact level and EQing. I highly advise any work with audio to end with normalizing the files to either 0 or -1. in the digital world 0 is just fine. Better having to turn something down then not having enough volume. Sound engineers all set our consoles up where every input meters bouncing around 0. Peaks being 0. HOWEVER, some meters work off the top is zero, and -12 (-12db) is how much full volume is cut. Bigger the number the lower the volume. The game mixer works as 0 is top of the fader. On almost all analog consoles 0 is usually center of the fader travel.
As far as mixing.
Interior sounds in this video is all one track. Exterior are all individual single tracks.
In Vegas Pro, for the Interior track, ON THE METERS, I ran volume up until the peaks hit -12, i want it between -15 and -12....-12 being loudest. On the exterior take files I pushed them one notch (or 1db-2db) just OVER the -12 mark on the meter, it's theatrical mixing. I want that engine pass-by to grab a little.....but also realistic too. Music is 1 notch (1db-2db) lower then engine sounds, except for the final minute/finale. So going from lowest volume to highest it's Music (-1db) > Interior (0) > Exterior (+ 1db-2db)
A real strong gaming PC could prolly do graphics better and MAYBE cut out the slow motion screen grabs. OR /Especialy over water.
I'm going to find a better way for captures as to much video converting going on with Bandicam as middleman.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: oboe on September 03, 2023, 08:32:38 AM
If you have an nVidia video card, GeForce comes with a screen capture recording utility. Its part of the GeForce Experience software. Can't recall the name off hand. (Shadowplay?)
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 03, 2023, 09:46:31 AM
If you have an nVidia video card, GeForce comes with a screen capture recording utility. Its part of the GeForce Experience software. Can't recall the name off hand. (Shadowplay?)
Yep, got it. I’d prolly be better off using NVidia processing anyway. Somehow got hung up on Bandicam. Going to check it out further. I do know once banding starts it seems to get worse if its rendered more than once. Pretty sure the worst scene with banding was. I really only have banding in the fog now.
The way it happens has a workaround, apply noise to the video. This tells processing there is something to focus on here. Why the sky only bands when no clouds. I’d rather find a better fix since clarity is a big deal to me.
My ears are always open. Thanks for the reminder.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 03, 2023, 10:10:38 AM
Unfortunately, I think banding stars in Bandicam which is before I could apply noise in Vegas. :(
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: ZE on September 03, 2023, 01:15:21 PM
Excellent videos :salute ZE
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 03, 2023, 02:33:35 PM
A tutorial of my own way was always the intention. When I get this banding issue solved I’ll do that.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: GasTeddy on September 03, 2023, 03:16:30 PM
I thought it was great; it held my interest right to the end!
Well done. That Bf109 had "Red Tulip" nose. Perhaps flown by Hermann Graf? 212 kills, Knight’s Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Kermit de frog on September 03, 2023, 06:08:21 PM
Awesome film and the type I really like to see more of. Your workflow is pretty much matching the same conclusions I've set on as well.
Creating layers in your editing program is a must. For sound layers, i'm currently trying out this mix: interior/exterior/vox/score/fx/misc Setting up the faders during course adjustment mixing can take out some emotion, but the goal is to prevent too low/loud sounds form jarring viewers. Expect to add fine tuning to bring back emotions and a follow up step.
I also had Vegas crash on me all the time during sound editing. I've learned to save my work all the time and with a new file name daily/hourly. We've all had programs teach us this lesson.
As for banding, my current guess is youtube transcoder will probably reintroduce it, but I've still not tested this part of the process. I use a video noise debander plugin, it removes the banding, but also introduces fuzziness, so I then apply it only to the sky color to limit side effects. I've always had banding issues, and would use some kind of filter to remove it, but it would come back in the final render back in the days when I had to apply lots of compression to get file sizes under 100mb. I think I used a gaussian blur on the blue hue via a mask to get rid of it in Vegas back in version 6. 8-bit video will have this issue, especially if you start adding video effects. The game itself has it.
YT's encoder settings have always been subpar for those looking for high quality. I chose to avoid YT and use WMV2 with my own encoder settings when YT first got started. One could get better quality with WMV2 than with YT's 480p settings, a codec built-in to Windows. YT has gone through multiple upgrades since. I think their VP9 and av1 settings are descent, but their avc1 settings seem biased towards space/bandwidth savings. Even Netflix and Amazon had low quality settings for years in their video or audio settings. So I think 1440 and 4k videos might be best bet to get YT's better encoder settings.
For video capture, I use OBS, only because FRAPs stopped getting updates and fell behind. The builtin GPU encoders NVENC are mostly fixed in settings, but they are lightning fast and don't take up much resources. Might want to give this a try during your testing. I use CPU encoding during final film renders though to get best quality.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 03, 2023, 07:15:07 PM
Awesome film and the type I really like to see more of. Your workflow is pretty much matching the same conclusions I've set on as well.
Creating layers in your editing program is a must. For sound layers, i'm currently trying out this mix: interior/exterior/vox/score/fx/misc Setting up the faders during course adjustment mixing can take out some emotion, but the goal is to prevent too low/loud sounds form jarring viewers. Expect to add fine tuning to bring back emotions and a follow up step.
I also had Vegas crash on me all the time during sound editing. I've learned to save my work all the time and with a new file name daily/hourly. We've all had programs teach us this lesson.
As for banding, my current guess is youtube transcoder will probably reintroduce it, but I've still not tested this part of the process. I use a video noise debander plugin, it removes the banding, but also introduces fuzziness, so I then apply it only to the sky color to limit side effects. I've always had banding issues, and would use some kind of filter to remove it, but it would come back in the final render back in the days when I had to apply lots of compression to get file sizes under 100mb. I think I used a gaussian blur on the blue hue via a mask to get rid of it in Vegas back in version 6. 8-bit video will have this issue, especially if you start adding video effects. The game itself has it.
YT's encoder settings have always been subpar for those looking for high quality. I chose to avoid YT and use WMV2 with my own encoder settings when YT first got started. One could get better quality with WMV2 than with YT's 480p settings, a codec built-in to Windows. YT has gone through multiple upgrades since. I think their VP9 and av1 settings are descent, but their avc1 settings seem biased towards space/bandwidth savings. Even Netflix and Amazon had low quality settings for years in their video or audio settings. So I think 1440 and 4k videos might be best bet to get YT's better encoder settings.
For video capture, I use OBS, only because FRAPs stopped getting updates and fell behind. The builtin GPU encoders NVENC are mostly fixed in settings, but they are lightning fast and don't take up much resources. Might want to give this a try during your testing. I use CPU encoding during final film renders though to get best quality.
Mixing can be infinite. As far as peaks and loud stuff when the rest of the sound file is lower, that's what compressors are for, to pull that peak down so you can bring the background up. That said, using them wrong has bad results, using them right makes a big difference. IE,...each scene has a comp. I running those at 3:1 ratio with very little threshold like -1.20, when norm is around -3,.. just topping the loud peaks,....3:1 still retains dynamics.....on my main output I run more strict but light,.. at 5:1. We stair step them like that so the listener never detects changes,.. but they are a great tool. If you don't understand them I can give ya a quick lesson. That scene where the 51 suddenly drops in from above and loud (4:22 again),... that went into full compression so I could get the distant sounds up and audible, but was still loud...and attention grabber. Evidently, Vegas bought rights to an Ensonic (I think) digital compressor, which in their consoles is one of the worst. They have to be layered or they distort easily.
For outboard (of Vegas) audio editing I use Cool Edit Pro for decades now. Adobe now owns it and called Adobe Audition. Very good program. I was going to use a 360 degree stereo rotation panning on a file,....sounds like the sound is spinning around your head. lol. I though it was too over the top. lol
YT actually didn't hurt it much. Unfortunately the banding issue is on my end. It banded before I uploaded. I THINK what happened, my worst banding, in scene starting 4:22. that is two scenes rendered together as one. I think I made that early in the game and was using the Sony codec or processing, before switching to NVENC. The fact I rendered it as one scene and then rendered it as part of the video (twice) MAY be what happened and my own damn fault. Vegas viewer is lame, you don't catch that stuff until rendered and watch on larger screen.... I had enough of that film, wanted to move on, and just wasn't going to go through all that redue. other banding is minimal,.. but I want 0. I hope the game is still around when I figure it out lol.
I don't use vox unless the convo is part of the immersion. Sometimes the chatter just doesn't fit. I probably will use more if I do the next scenario.
How you mix the game is how your capture audio will sound. I spent time on that to get more dynamics and not a default straight line mix. unrealistic engine, flaps, buzzer and guns volume really mask other things that bring the game more to life. It's the only way to mix individual sounds before production.
Soon as I get this last banding issue solved I'm up and running. More videos in a lot shorter time. The only flaws would be slopping scenes/angles. I think you're better at that and history than me. I did barrow your style at the end with Peddy.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 04, 2023, 08:38:22 AM
Well done. That Bf109 had "Red Tulip" nose. Perhaps flown by Hermann Graf? 212 kills, Knight’s Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds.
I’ kinda bad about that knowledge. I was looking. Excused it by its about a mustang, HA!
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: GasTeddy on September 04, 2023, 03:43:08 PM
Well, nobody can be aware of everything, even in interesting subjects. I have several shelf meters WW 2 Luftwaffe history and (auto)biographies. Hermann's story happens to be one of them.
Well, nobody can be aware of everything, even in interesting subjects. I have several shelf meters WW 2 Luftwaffe history and (auto)biographies. Hermann's story happens to be one of them.
Well, nobody can be aware of everything, even in interesting subjects. I have several shelf meters WW 2 Luftwaffe history and (auto)biographies. Hermann's story happens to be one of them.
Basic paint job is similar around the cockpit, but not the rest. Yellow triangle same spot, but no white border.... 4 is in the same place. But no swastika on the tail. Tail number on AH skin is 332529.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: GasTeddy on September 05, 2023, 02:28:07 AM
There are very little surviving photos of Graf's 109s, here (https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2016/08/jgr-50-september-1943-maj-hermann-graf.html) are some film captions.
He flew several red tulip noses, best known is perhaps high-altitude Bf-109G-6/R "Green 1", Werknummer 15919. Here (https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Bf-109G/JG50.html) are some well detailed drawings of it.
Title: Re: "One Legged Runstang" video
Post by: Animl-AW on September 05, 2023, 11:20:41 PM
Just FYI At least on my machine,..Banding is in the game itself. Its just super subtle. It gets exaggerated, like with the rainbow effect through processes. Could be the change in resolution between Bandicam and Vegas. In game, or at least FV, It looks like faint distant rain falling in the fog. I thought my eyes were playing games on me, kept looking, and yep thar it is
I don’t know the resolutions of sky and fog. Seems like an 8-bit symptom tho.
Point is I have a short rendered vid, just like I would render a finished product, thats now game level. No better nor worse then the game itself.
As far as graphics. With my machine it’s probably now getting the most I can get out of the game. Screen shot is only as good as your vid card and how its tweaked.