General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Animl-AW on December 02, 2023, 10:29:45 AM
Title: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 02, 2023, 10:29:45 AM
Can anyone give input on this stick, and if it handles nose bounce well? I could read through the entire forum, I'm just busy and lazy today (oxymoron).
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 02, 2023, 11:28:38 AM
My experience with this stick is that it bounces all over not just the nose even after messing with scaling and dead zones.
In my experience other then having more buttons it's not any more precise then the $49 thrustmaster hotas.
I know lots of other guys use it and may be able to be more helpful.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Devil 505 on December 02, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Can anyone give input on this stick, and if it handles nose bounce well? I could read through the entire forum, I'm just busy and lazy today (oxymoron).
Thanks in advance.
I've been using the T-16000m for several years, albeit I'm on my 4th one.
For the money, you won't find a more precise stick. The TM T.Flight Hotas X is a sloppy mess, and the Logitech 3D Pro is so stiff in the pivot that the base will come up off your desk before you reach the limits of travel.
The main issue with the T-16000M is that the Z-axis sensor has a tendency to fail after only a few of months of moderate use. At first it will present itself as blips of full rudder input, but eventually it will just become permanently locked.
My current stick is still fine in this regard after almost a year, but the previous two needed replacement after only a couple of months each. My first T-16000M (a first generation model) had no issue with the Z-axis and lasted over 5 years before the trigger and hat switches wore out.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: GasTeddy on December 02, 2023, 12:15:45 PM
I started my virtual pilot career with TM Hotas X, which I then changed to T16000M and IMO the latter is much more precise. When checking axis via controller properties, only wrist twitch is unstable but I don't use it. I'm sure there are lots of better sticks, but for my skills 16000 is so far good enough.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 02, 2023, 12:41:08 PM
Quick check on amazon and VKB showed: T16000M Hotas for $149 X52 Hotas for $159 X56 Hotas for $234 VKB Gladiator NXT EVO ‘WWII Combat Edition’ $120
I have used the X56 for many years and other then the buttons wearing out think that it is a much better stick if it's in your budget in that price range. That said I have not tried the VKB Gladiator but I've heard enough good stuff about it that I plan to buy that one next time I need a replacement.
I used the X52 back in the day and I liked it better then the T16000M
I think the thing I don't like about the T16000M is that (to me) it feels stiff and that it doesn't have as much of a length of travel to deflection as the other sticks listed. I get the same feeling when I've used the $49 TM hotas.
I can fly pretty close to the same with the TM hotas and the T16000M and about 25% better with the X52 and X56. YMMV
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Dadtallica on December 02, 2023, 03:12:20 PM
I consider myself lucky that I still have the original X52 and saitek pedals from 2007 and they are in great like new shape. I took a bit of a break of course but it still works really well. No drift in my axis either knock on wood.
AH is the only game that does not recognize some buttons. It’s never registered the pinky trigger one for me ever and recently the X/Z rotations on the throttle stopped working. AH recognizes them in the controller mapping but the not ever work to no matter what I have them set to. I used to have them set to analog up/down and left/right views. They all work fine in IL 1946 (only other sim I play) and they show up on the windows properties.
I was actually looking at the X56 on Amazon yesterday and I wish I needed it lol. It sure does look nice.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 02, 2023, 06:05:50 PM
Back in band camp I had some cheap TM, maybe $39,.... I did well with it.
I figure anything over $200 I may just go Virpil. Heard and read good things, but don't know many that have one to get the input. By the time I priced out the exact setup I want it came to around $750. If the numbers were at their peak, that's where I'd go. That's not where we are.
Before my grand gaming PC got struck by lightning in 09, I had about $600 worth of outboard gear. My very old X56 is just shot. It was okay when it was new. I'm looking to try something different. Too bad I can't test drive them.
The TM wearing out that fast doesn't sound inviting. Sounds like I'd have to commit to replacing it every 6mos -1yr. I could probably service a sensor myself. That said, several of the more seasoned pilots I know seem to use the TM. There must be a reason, despite it's cons. I read about others changing the spring for better movement. The mention of nose bounce scares me. Reduced nose bounce alone would give me more accuracy than I have now.
Kinda blind purchasing. I'd be POed if I got another stick with a crazy nose bounce issue with AH. I don't play any other game/sim, so that matters. Indecisive. For whatever reason I just want to lean towards TM.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: edge12674 on December 04, 2023, 08:27:11 AM
I was a TM customer for over 20 years, upgrading as new HOTAS became available. During that time the company customer support has dramatically declined and I found myself having to provide maintenance on my HOTAS several times a year. The final straw was when TM told me that they were no longer selling parts for self maintenance and wanted me to buy new equipment.
I switched to Virpil equipment about eight years ago and have been MUCH happier. The equipment is better designed, more precise, and trouble free. Customer support has been outstanding. Aside from occasional exterior cleaning of the HOTAS for hand oils, there is no maintenance. For the cost of new TM gear there are much better options out there.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 04, 2023, 01:15:35 PM
I was a TM customer for over 20 years, upgrading as new HOTAS became available. During that time the company customer support has dramatically declined and I found myself having to provide maintenance on my HOTAS several times a year. The final straw was when TM told me that they were no longer selling parts for self maintenance and wanted me to buy new equipment.
I switched to Virpil equipment about eight years ago and have been MUCH happier. The equipment is better designed, more precise, and trouble free. Customer support has been outstanding. Aside from occasional exterior cleaning of the HOTAS for hand oils, there is no maintenance. For the cost of new TM gear there are much better options out there.
Thanks for the input. Ya I guess when any company stops supporting or selling parts, it's got issues they just got exhausted with. Sounds like they turned into dishonest brokers. I've watched many videos of the same complaints. Great stick, for a while.
Last night I started looking at VKB Gladiator NXT EVO ‘WWII Combat Edition’ Sounds like a good stick, but the clicking buttons would drive me nuts. I may end up with Virpil as an x-mas present to myself, and be done with it.
Reading the General the last 24 hrs (better yet last several days) warrants second thoughts on further investment, since it's the only game I play, and won't play another after it. There's no future in such idiocy. <shrug>
Thanks again, <S> we'll see.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Brooke on December 05, 2023, 11:40:45 AM
I've bought a bunch of T16000M's. (For daughter, dad, nephews, some pals.)
I think they are good. They have lasted and perform well.
My opinion:
T16000M -- best twisty stick, also best for the money CH Products Flightstick -- best for higher money, is not twisty and needs pedals as well Logitech Extreme 3D Pro -- the cheapest stick that I think is still acceptable, not my favorite as is too stiff
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 05, 2023, 12:14:38 PM
Anybody know how the: Gladiator NXT EVO ‘WWII Combat Edition' compares to the CHproducts stick? They're about the same price.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Shuffler on December 05, 2023, 03:59:07 PM
I've bought a bunch of T16000M's. (For daughter, dad, nephews, some pals.)
I think they are good. They have lasted and perform well.
My opinion:
T16000M -- best twisty stick, also best for the money CH Products Flightstick -- best for higher money, is not twisty and needs pedals as well Logitech Extreme 3D Pro -- the cheapest stick that I think is still acceptable, not my favorite as is too stiff
I have all Ch products but they are long in the tooth. I would shy away from CH as they sold out some years back and they are not the company they were years ago. They are also 8bit and much like some other companies, they are no longer working to improve their product.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 05, 2023, 06:20:24 PM
8bit?
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Eagler on December 06, 2023, 08:00:13 AM
I used the tm1600 combo withch pedals when I went from the x52 to a warthog..I don't recall any nose bounce issues
Still use the tm1600 throttle
Eagler
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 12, 2023, 08:48:58 PM
Well, my 16 yr old x52 coughin blood tonight. Only getting 50% response on movements, almost broke it in half just trying to make a turn, it was creaking. lol.
SO, choice needs to be made.
Sure seems like a lot use TM. No parts sold and clicking buttons bothers me. Other then that, decent reviews.
Virpil so tempting. Who is using which Virpil? Can I use my Logitech throttle along side it, or do they need to be chained with same brand? I bet I know the answer, just wunderin if I missed something.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 12, 2023, 11:41:04 PM
Found this video to further my indecisive circle. Leaning Virpil.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 13, 2023, 12:08:13 AM
I have all Ch products but they are long in the tooth. I would shy away from CH as they sold out some years back and they are not the company they were years ago. They are also 8bit and much like some other companies, they are no longer working to improve their product.
CH was a hot stick back in the day. Barely hear of it now days. They musta really let it go.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: SIK1 on December 13, 2023, 11:04:46 AM
CH went from a family owned company to being bought out by an international conglomerate. The new owners focus is on the industrial side of the business, and they have no real interest in supporting or improving the hobbyist side.
I have an original Virpil Mongoos T-50 from when Virpil first started up. It was a real pita to order one back then had to do a wire transfer to Belarus, which my bank was hesitant to do. I'm real happy with it. It's been a great stick, and I've had zero issues with it.
:salute
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 18, 2023, 09:49:42 AM
Crazy stuff My x52 went way south. Yesterday it would not even fire up. Out of desperation I rebooted it and the pc a few times, just to play and die. It fires up. It has reverted to acting like a good stick again. I had scaling and damoening settings all iver the place. Now with just dampening on the rudder it runs good with no other scaling or settings at all, i can actually lock on target much better, not great but as good as and x52 can.
Weird ghost
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Professor_Fate on December 29, 2023, 12:13:59 PM
My Flightstick One went Tango Uniform a week ago, unfortunately everything seems to be sold out or on back order. Thought about a VirPil but warbird bases are currently out of stock. Manufactured in Belarus I’m not so sure it will be available anytime soon.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: SIK1 on December 29, 2023, 12:22:24 PM
My Flightstick One went Tango Uniform a week ago, unfortunately everything seems to be sold out or on back order. Thought about a VirPil but warbird bases are currently out of stock. Manufactured in Belarus I’m not so sure it will be available anytime soon.
You can try ordering a Virpil and see what the lead time is. Normally it seems to be no more than a couple of weeks, also iirc they moved some of their manufacturing to Lithuania. If the lead time ends up being to long you can always cancel the order and get something else.
:salute
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 29, 2023, 12:44:10 PM
OK. As far as I'm concerned the T16000M is garbage. I thought it felt cheaply made but now my 6 month old stick is spiking on the twist axis like the thrustmaster HOTAS. As far as I'm concerned based on my experience with these two thrustmaster products they make junk. I would not buy either again.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Brooke on December 29, 2023, 03:07:50 PM
OK. As far as I'm concerned the T16000M is garbage. I thought it felt cheaply made but now my 6 month old stick is spiking on the twist axis like the thrustmaster HOTAS. As far as I'm concerned based on my experience with these two thrustmaster products they make junk. I would not buy either again.
When I had that problem in the past (it was another brand of stick, though), I changed to plugging my stick into a powered usb hub. That solved my problem. Not sure if that would be the issue for you, though.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: GasTeddy on December 29, 2023, 03:26:02 PM
OK. As far as I'm concerned the T16000M is garbage. I thought it felt cheaply made but now my 6 month old stick is spiking on the twist axis like the thrustmaster HOTAS. As far as I'm concerned based on my experience with these two thrustmaster products they make junk. I would not buy either again.
Had similar probs in my Thrustmaster TWSC throttle mini stick and rocker paddle. Opened it up, dropped small drop of WD40 in potentiometers and problems solved. I do not use twist in 16000 but I presume same thing could fix it.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 29, 2023, 03:31:18 PM
I would try a powered usb plug but it's plugged into a orange usb plug already and it worked fine for 6 months. I doubt that it's the plug but thanks for mentioning it.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 29, 2023, 03:32:41 PM
Ya, I could probably tear it apart and fix it, but, I feel like having to repair something that is 6 months old means that it's junk. Am I going to have to tear it apart ever 6 months?
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Brooke on December 29, 2023, 03:34:38 PM
I would try a powered usb plug but it's plugged into a orange usb plug already and it worked fine for 6 months. I doubt that it's the plug but thanks for mentioning it.
For me, it wasn't the socket. It was, after about a year of working fine, a power chip on the motherboard not being able to deliver non-spiky power to the device. I think some motherboards have very cheap USB power chips, and they can stress out and fail after a while.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on December 29, 2023, 03:41:01 PM
Right. It's just that it does the same thing on every usb port that I move it to on whatever computer I move it to and my X54 controllers work fine on all of those same ports. I've seem write ups online on how to fix this so it appears to be a known issue.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Brooke on December 29, 2023, 03:51:11 PM
Right. It's just that it does the same thing on every usb port that I move it to on whatever computer I move it to and my X54 controllers work fine on all of those same ports. I've seem write ups online on how to fix this so it appears to be a known issue.
Roger that. If it does the same thing even on other computers, probably not the power issue then, as you say.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on December 31, 2023, 06:50:11 PM
My X52, I got when dirt was created, has a bunch of power sucking LED lights. turning those off and using a USB power supply tamed it quite a bit. Not perfect, just better.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: xanax on January 01, 2024, 09:30:11 PM
Well fellas, I'm gonna be the Guinea Pig on this thread and give the Gladiator NXT EVO a try. My old Logitech 3D extreme or whatever it was is all jittery in the Z axis and has a solid catch mid Y axis after many years being stored in an overstuffed box in the attic. I bought the TM flight HOTAS X....the one below the T16000M and it was pure crap. Poorly constructed, sticky POT on the Z axis and spongy at best in the others. Very "rubber bandy" despite throwing in dampening etc. I'd been reading the reviews on the VKB stuff and thought I'd give them a whirl. I'll have to low-level it past the wife and maybe delay a killer wheelset for my mountain bike and quite a few Buffalo wings but it should work out. I put my order in just now and am hoping it makes it through customs without a hitch.
Now, what gift or task to distract the wife with? Tell her HOTAS is a lawn mower part or device I need to fix her car?
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on January 01, 2024, 09:49:43 PM
Let me know on this one.
I need to replace the TM garbage I have. I think the T16000M is just a TM flight HOTAS X in another case. I bet most of guts are the same between them.
I'd have to think about what to tell your wife. But, I once was carrying some firearms in a place where I knew it would make everybody nervous and answered that it was a "Cordless hole puncher" when I was asked what was in the case...
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: xanax on January 01, 2024, 10:15:44 PM
I need to replace the TM garbage I have. I think the T16000M is just a TM flight HOTAS X in another case. I bet most of guts are the same between them.
I'd have to think about what to tell your wife. But, I once was carrying some firearms in a place where I knew it would make everybody nervous and answered that it was a "Cordless hole puncher" when I was asked what was in the case...
Will do.
I doubt she will mind the new stick and computer setup. It's far cheaper than the biking stuff I'm gonna forego.......maybe.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on January 01, 2024, 10:37:24 PM
You could start it off with something about how you think it would be best to save money and not buy the biking stuff and use some of that money for something more useful.
I worked with a guy that used to have Amazon stuff sent to him at work so his wife won't know about it. His wife hid stuff from him too but got caught. Last I heard they were getting a divorce...
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: xanax on January 01, 2024, 11:03:18 PM
You could start it off with something about how you think it would be best to save money and not buy the biking stuff and use some of that money for something more useful.
I worked with a guy that used to have Amazon stuff sent to him at work so his wife won't know about it. His wife hid stuff from him too but got caught. Last I heard they were getting a divorce...
Yow! Scary stuff. I actually told my wife after I received the confirmation email. She called me a nerd and asked if I wanted a pocket protector and a couple of short-sleeve dress shirts too. Also suggested I pack a juice box with my lunch. I might take her up on that pocket protector.....
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: GasTeddy on January 02, 2024, 04:11:24 AM
I need to replace the TM garbage I have. I think the T16000M is just a TM flight HOTAS X in another case. I bet most of guts are the same between them.
I can tell with experience they are not. 16000 is way much better and precise. I have also opened them both and no, guts are not the same.
Quote
I'd have to think about what to tell your wife. But, I once was carrying some firearms in a place where I knew it would make everybody nervous and answered that it was a "Cordless hole puncher" when I was asked what was in the case...
HOTAS is "He Offers Taking All Sundries"-guidebook, if wife asks.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on January 02, 2024, 09:54:13 AM
I can tell with experience they are not. 16000 is way much better and precise. I have also opened them both and no, guts are not the same.
Good to know. My claim was based on them both doing the exact same twitch on the twist after about the same 6 months of use. If you pushed the stick forward ore back the rudder would twitch on both of them. I was able to deadzone it out for a bit but it quickly got much worse. In my opinion both are total garbage because of that.
The only way I can get them to work is to totally turn off the twist axis. I have some of those cheapo logitec and saitek joysticks from 15 years ago that the twist still works fine...
Garbage! (IMO)
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Bizman on January 03, 2024, 01:59:29 AM
I've also used both the TM Flight Hotas X and the T16000M and despite trying to be light handed the twist on both made less funny noises right from the start. Most likely that was due to the excitement in a fight causing me to cross the limits. Back in the day I was told about WW2 pilots trying AH and their stick handling could be compared to a jeweler's work. Hand on heart, how many of you almost never hit the extents of the moving range of any axis?
That said, there's a guy in our squad who to my knowledge has been happy with his 16000 for years without issues, no other controllers. It's not that he doesn't know about anything better, once he told that already before AH he had all bells and whistles and also a pilot's license but for occasional gaming in various places like a holiday cottage or a con he likes to travel light with only the stick and laptop, lending an external monitor at the location for convenience. Truly light handed, he is.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on January 03, 2024, 02:41:16 AM
My guess is that they're made so poorly that they fail from normal usage unlike these listed below of which none of the twist axis has failed:
X55 that I've had for at least 9 years (half the buttons are wore out on this one) X54 that I've had for 2 years (throttle is worn out and it advances forward to max on its own) X52 that I was given about 12 years ago. (it's tired but still works) Numerous st290 joysticks (this was the best cheap joystick I ever bought) And a couple Logitec extreme 3d pros (none of the buttons on the base of these work)
How is it that the twist axis work on all of these, but failed on both of the TM sticks I got within 6 months? I doubt it's the way I handle them...
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: GasTeddy on January 03, 2024, 04:46:10 AM
I've had my 16000 & TWCS now 4 years. Only probs were those I mentioned earlier, fixed w/ drop of WD40. I made TWCS magnet mod (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r4yfLKdqeo), which makes tanking in certain platforms easier. Mean, there GVs throttle is <- 0 ->, neutral gear in middle.
What I really like in TWCS, is mini stick. With it I can rotate my view to every direction, but unfortunately it does not work in AH.
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: hazmatt on January 03, 2024, 04:22:09 PM
(Plugs ears) Lalalalala. I hate TM. they make junk! (at least the ones I got were junk) lalala I will hear nothing else! lalala
Title: Re: Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS Info wanted
Post by: Animl-AW on January 03, 2024, 09:54:46 PM