General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on January 09, 2024, 07:24:25 AM
Title: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 09, 2024, 07:24:25 AM
When a door is called a window and an iPhone survives a fall from 16000 ft...
Boeing having another great day..
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Shuffler on January 09, 2024, 07:31:39 AM
Referred to as a plug. Will be interesting to see what they find. One other had loose bolts. Two different phones were found and are being returned to their owners.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Animl-AW on January 09, 2024, 10:19:09 AM
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 10, 2024, 09:14:48 PM
Based on recently getting a house built, declining quality of various products I buy, talking to friends who work in various businesses including healthcare, etc., it seems like competence is on the decline.
It seems like businesses of all types have an increasing proportion of incompetent management. Incompetent management doesn't know how to fix itself, or how to get competent workers. And it makes the work environment worse.
Competent workers then bail, as they don't want to work for morons or work in a unpleasant, stupidly run work environment. Or just move to, "OK, you're the boss" and do it the stupid way because trying to educate morons doesn't work. Which makes the problems worse. Which makes more competent people leave. It's a vicious negative-feedback loop.
The result is increasing supply problems, plunging quality of product, greater faults and failures.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Busher on January 10, 2024, 09:49:41 PM
Based on recently getting a house built, declining quality of various products I buy, talking to friends who work in various businesses including healthcare, etc., it seems like competence is on the decline.
It seems like businesses of all types have an increasing proportion of incompetent management. Incompetent management doesn't know how to fix itself, or how to get competent workers. And it makes the work environment worse.
Competent workers then bail, as they don't want to work for morons or work in a unpleasant, stupidly run work environment. Or just move to, "OK, you're the boss" and do it the stupid way because trying to educate morons doesn't work. Which makes the problems worse. Which makes more competent people leave. It's a vicious negative-feedback loop.
The result is increasing supply problems, plunging quality of product, greater faults and failures.
I agree with this Op-ed entirely. I would only add (and I was a career Union member) that Trade Unions can never break into a Company with strong intelligent and receptive Management.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: fd ski on January 11, 2024, 02:06:24 AM
Based on recently getting a house built, declining quality of various products I buy, talking to friends who work in various businesses including healthcare, etc., it seems like competence is on the decline.
It seems like businesses of all types have an increasing proportion of incompetent management. Incompetent management doesn't know how to fix itself, or how to get competent workers. And it makes the work environment worse.
Competent workers then bail, as they don't want to work for morons or work in a unpleasant, stupidly run work environment. Or just move to, "OK, you're the boss" and do it the stupid way because trying to educate morons doesn't work. Which makes the problems worse. Which makes more competent people leave. It's a vicious negative-feedback loop.
The result is increasing supply problems, plunging quality of product, greater faults and failures.
We live in times when appearances beat competences, words beat deeds and volume dominates eloquence. This is our culture now and it is no wonder that it permeated into workplace. It doesn't pay to do right thing, to do good job or to be skilled when all you need to do is announce those things and you're all set. If you work in corporation, it is often described as "building your brand". Euphemism for self aggrandizement on company's dime. Since this strategy works, you end up with companies that have thousands of workers only fraction of whom do anything worthwhile, they are managed by those who succeeded in above strategy the most - with predictable results. Lots of announcements, great successes, amazing achievements, and somehow, everything is just as it was, or maybe little worst...
Welcome to the brave new world.
PS: yes, i work in 200k+ people corporation :)
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 11, 2024, 03:17:15 AM
The Peter Principle.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: icepac on January 11, 2024, 07:37:38 AM
Keep this in mind when you fly commercial.
I’m pretty sure “they” are still training “zero altitude loss stall recovery so we will likely see more planes mushing in from recoverable altitude to crash with wings level.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 11, 2024, 08:07:38 AM
Daughter was just visiting us in Texas and had a 4 hour delay going back to Idaho. Brother flew for American for many years before retiring a few years ago. He and his wife still travel but said American is getting bad.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 11, 2024, 08:11:08 AM
Keep this in mind when you do anything or go anywhere
Mediocrity, actually less than, rules the day...
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Shuffler on January 11, 2024, 09:40:56 AM
My nephew a couple of years back did not get a job he put in for. He was told that he was the best candidate but they had to fill it with someone else. Companies can't blame their issues on someone else if they decide to live or die by DEI.
When you hire tokens, you get tokens.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Vraciu on January 11, 2024, 09:47:45 AM
I’m pretty sure “they” are still training “zero altitude loss stall recovery so we will likely see more planes mushing in from recoverable altitude to crash with wings level.
No, they absolutely are not.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 11, 2024, 10:31:29 AM
My nephew a couple of years back did not get a job he put in for. He was told that he was the best candidate but they had to fill it with someone else. Companies can't blame their issues on someone else if they decide to live or die by DEI.
When you hire tokens, you get tokens.
Unfortunate fact. Nowadays most competent is often not suitable. As there are certain quotas, which must be filled, no matter the consequences.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Meatwad on January 11, 2024, 12:25:33 PM
Unfortunate fact. Nowadays most competent is often not suitable. As there are certain quotas, which must be filled, no matter the consequences.
The more "special" boxes the person tics, the more "qualified" they are
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 11, 2024, 12:43:10 PM
Special boxes don't matter...it's the quietly quiting mindset that is screwing over the work force...the entitlement mindset regardless of your color, sex or pronouns is destroying us from the inside out..
1st taste of it was the occupy Wallstreet nonsense...
Lack of quality control is one of the results of it imo
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 11, 2024, 01:23:32 PM
The entitlement i read in the above post... The entitlement to continue to leverage and exploit disadvantaged and desperate people. The entitlement and rage in the statement "I can't find anyone willing to work anymore" when what they really mean is "I can't find anyone willing to work for the slave wages I offer anymore". Or, my favorite... The entitlement in the statement "if I paid them what they want, they'd be making more than me".
That kind of entitlement?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Shuffler on January 11, 2024, 01:34:29 PM
The entitlement i read in the above post... The entitlement to continue to leverage and exploit disadvantaged and desperate people. The entitlement and rage in the statement "I can't find anyone willing to work anymore" when what they really mean is "I can't find anyone willing to work for the slave wages I offer anymore". Or, my favorite... The entitlement in the statement "if I paid them what they want, they'd be making more than me".
That kind of entitlement?
Slave labor? People have a choice where they work. If you want to flip burgers and raise a family..... that would be your issue. We see this a lot. Make yourself more valuable. Get into a trade and work your way up like we did. No one is paying slave labor. The slaves are on handouts. They get their phone, their food, and the stipend, all from the wallet of their their neighbor.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 11, 2024, 04:23:48 PM
Sparky, I have no clue in which kind of commie dictatorship you are living, but in my world one one change the workplace, have promotion, study, re-educate oneself and do many things to improve own position. And I have changed workplace many times, even to less paid job, which I felt more suitable for me. And also twice refused from promotion, as it would have made me "flying a desk" and that wasn't for me.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 11, 2024, 04:49:11 PM
Slave wages lol
No.. certain groups have figured out how to live off the government tit while doing whatever..sell drugs, steal, etc..to the point they have to let illegal immigrants to do the jobs those would be qualified for...landscaping, roofing, strawberry picking, etc..
Just need a high school diploma and the will to work hard
I did it so I know it's possible..retired full-time last October at age 64...many just want it handed to them without putting in the effort..I know this too as I worked with some of them.
Seems most can't handle anything dealing with any kind of manual labor anymore...turn over is constant.
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: MiloMorai on January 11, 2024, 05:02:03 PM
The entitlement i read in the above post... The entitlement to continue to leverage and exploit disadvantaged and desperate people. The entitlement and rage in the statement "I can't find anyone willing to work anymore" when what they really mean is "I can't find anyone willing to work for the slave wages I offer anymore". Or, my favorite... The entitlement in the statement "if I paid them what they want, they'd be making more than me".
That kind of entitlement?
There is some truth in that. The wages of the hired help has not risen like it has for upper management.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Meatwad on January 11, 2024, 05:21:51 PM
From what I have seen so far is that (younger) people want a job that involves doing absolutely the smallest amount of work possible then demand $25 an hour for said work. A lot of it is just laziness.
Watched a door dash guy go to a house and set the food on the front steps and drive away. No knocking on the door, no saying "food is here" or anything. Just walk from his car wearing trashy bellybutton clothes and set the bag of food on the outside exposed concrete steps in 35 degree weather and get in his car and drive off. Sat out there for at least 10 minutes before someone sticks their head out the door looking around for the food then finding it.
Talked to an HR lady that hired someone to stock shelves at a grocery store. They quit an hour after they started because "the job wasnt for them because it is too much work and that they wanted to be in management instead". Both her and I worked in a different grocery store together 20 years ago so we know how easy the job is to do.
Someone who quit a job that involves working outside because it blew their mind that they have to work while its raining.
Wanting time off from work because their dog died.
And it just goes on and on
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 11, 2024, 06:27:40 PM
Saw a funny meme. Some folks screaming "we voted to raise property taxes, not rent!"
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 11, 2024, 06:59:14 PM
NONE of these replies disagree with anything in my post. You just don't like these truths and instead choose to build a strawman.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Animl-AW on January 11, 2024, 08:57:15 PM
From what I have seen so far is that (younger) people want a job that involves doing absolutely the smallest amount of work possible then demand $25 an hour for said work. A lot of it is just laziness.
Watched a door dash guy go to a house and set the food on the front steps and drive away. No knocking on the door, no saying "food is here" or anything. Just walk from his car wearing trashy bellybutton clothes and set the bag of food on the outside exposed concrete steps in 35 degree weather and get in his car and drive off. Sat out there for at least 10 minutes before someone sticks their head out the door looking around for the food then finding it.
Talked to an HR lady that hired someone to stock shelves at a grocery store. They quit an hour after they started because "the job wasnt for them because it is too much work and that they wanted to be in management instead". Both her and I worked in a different grocery store together 20 years ago so we know how easy the job is to do.
Someone who quit a job that involves working outside because it blew their mind that they have to work while its raining.
Wanting time off from work because their dog died.
And it just goes on and on
WHY, work your life away for someone else to receive what you earned. Spending an hr out of one’s short life to push a broom is worth $15.
Why crush your short life, like a slave, so some fat rich bastage CEO can have a 4th car and 3rd house?
This is why unions were created. People smartened up. “This is MY life, not yours.” “FU, pay me”.
Everyone should make what I do.
:)
Demark, happiest country in the world.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: rpm on January 12, 2024, 11:41:49 AM
Anyone seen Ripsnort?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 12, 2024, 02:07:45 PM
One redeeming feature of communism, everyone works, no exceptions. Or at least everyone pretends to work, while they pretend to pay them.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 12, 2024, 02:10:22 PM
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: potsNpans on January 15, 2024, 07:48:19 AM
"People with ‘Complete Paralysis, Epilepsy, Severe Intellectual Disability, Psychiatric Disability’ to Lead Air Travel Operations in Pursuit of Woke DEI Quotas" article relevant to recent event concerns; https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/01/people-complete-paralysis-epilepsy-severe-intellectual-disability-psychiatric/
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 15, 2024, 09:16:41 AM
They have to hire the afflicted because, "no one wants to work (for slave wages) anymore".
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 15, 2024, 09:24:35 AM
Highschoolers make extra income all the time like that. If you want to flip burgers all your life, that is your problem. How about educating yourself. Otherwise, you are making yourself a slave. My guess is you have a phone paid for by all of us tax payers. Your food and housing is probably paid by the same tax payers. You consider yourself a slave because that is all you ever wanted to be.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 15, 2024, 12:29:34 PM
Saw a recent opinion piece somewhere recently. Said to live middle class now requires an income of $120K. The more money printed and given away the more things will cost. Unless you want communism. Then virtually everyone lives at the poverty level.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 15, 2024, 12:31:05 PM
Yes it's all relative but then we never expected to purchase a house with that salary..we just tried to pay the bills, keep the lights on and figure out how to advance in my field and make more..
45 years later after raising two sons we are able to fully retire at 64 and 63 last October.
So tired of the whining from the young today
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 15, 2024, 12:48:40 PM
Yes it's all relative but then we never expected to purchase a house with that salary..we just tried to pay the bills, keep the lights on and figure out how to advance in my field and make more..
45 years later after raising two sons we are able to fully retire at 64 and 63 last October.
So tired of the whining from the young today
Eagler
I wouldn't want to be a young person today inheriting the mess being left to them.
They will have a lot less opportunities to thrive than earlier generations.
They got whacked by GFC and then COVID which derailed their early careers. They they have to pay the debt the boomer left them, while paying into SS they might not see to keep the boomers fed in their old age.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 15, 2024, 01:01:29 PM
Oh.. We're talking about fast food? I thought we were talking about airplane manufacturers.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 15, 2024, 01:37:56 PM
Oh.. We're talking about fast food? I thought we were talking about airplane manufacturers.
In the beginning we did. Then someone turned it into a slavery. And that lead to the salaries. Wonder how many slaves (https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Aircraft_Manufacturing/Salary) there are in aircraft industry?
In EU, where many things are more expensive than in US, there are lots of slaves (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage). Like, where I live nowadays, my net pension is 3 times local average net salary and I'm totally enslaved by my cats. 😼
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 15, 2024, 01:51:37 PM
I think all DIE does is put more pressure on every other group of people except white Americans. Thanks to this, now so many black folks will just be considered "diversity hires" which is a negative connotation. This doesn't benefit them IMO, but perhaps it may encourage them work even harder to prove they aren't just there because if their skin color. Meh.
This is everything MLK Jr was against BTW. He wanted black people to be represented the exact same way as whites, not put into a category of "we deserve it because of color". Not segregated into these types of "categories". There always be a "minority victim" with this. Not what MLK wanted.
Going into wages. It's always a tricky concept. Every business has to be looked at individually. There are good companies and bad companies. Some offer more time off, some offer 401k and better health insurance. Some aren't meant to be careers. Some truely could pay their employees much better. The issues is that all wages are based on a market rate. I don't like that, but its what it is. It should be based on how well the company does compared to its peers in the zone economy, and provide a higher wage if they are doing better to gain the advantage of a better workforce. Pay doesn't always achieve a better workforce though. However you'll be able to get better candidates who want the higher pay and therefore achieve better results.
The issue is. One cannot identify what a "livable market rate" is. They say, "should be able to afford rent, food, car, gas, or what have you, what they don't say is, what apartment/where? What food, what type of car, ect. That is the tricky concept. Then you'll have all companies trying to emulate that, which may drive down standard of living as more companies will just resort to paying that minimum standard.
Then they say, if they cant hire someone with a "livable wage" , they shouldn't be allowed to own a business or hire someone. This inturn makes it much easier for large corporations to thrive. They will go ahead and prevent you from owning a business because it's not going to be able to have the cash to pay their idea of a "livable wage". So you will go back to working at the larger Corp that can. You want your 13 year old kid to work the register to grow and learn how to work at an early wage? Forget about it. You won't be allowed to have him work. And oh btw, you have to pay this guy whose been in prison for 10 years the same as old Betty over there whose been working here for 20 because we cannot afford to have fluctuations in pay as we must pay every 25 an hour, even the 17 year old high schooler. It just doesn't make sense not to have a hierarchy in business. And one who think management jobs are easier has never been a manager. That's the biggest red herring in the book.
These days, companies should be paying as much as they can to get and retain the best talent. It's very easy to change jobs when you are young. Once you gain experience you have it for life. Oh and yes, trying hard in school does matter.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Meatwad on January 15, 2024, 06:21:25 PM
"People with ‘Complete Paralysis, Epilepsy, Severe Intellectual Disability, Psychiatric Disability’ to Lead Air Travel Operations in Pursuit of Woke DEI Quotas" article relevant to recent event concerns; https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/01/people-complete-paralysis-epilepsy-severe-intellectual-disability-psychiatric/
Wonder how many people will get killed or injured because of their wokeness. Imagine requesting clearance to land and you instead hear "BARNEY!!!QQGHFXQWKND!!!!"
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 15, 2024, 07:19:00 PM
Obtuse much? First you say, "if you don't like what they're offering, don't take the job." Then when they don't take the job it's, "no one wants to work anymore!1!!" Make up you mind.
Labor is a commodity. As much as employers want you to not know that, it is. And.. what determines the value of a commodity? Scarcity and desirability. If a specific labor is desired and scarce, guess what? This "hire the afflicted" scheme is brilliant; they'll look good to the woke AND... .gov will pay a majority of the wages. Which means.. The Corps get to keep more money! All subsidies are a direct pipeline from the taxpayer to the corp. Bravo!
You guys talking about raising a family and owning a house on $3 an hour a hundred years ago are awesome! You're so removed from reality it's hilarz. But ignorance is bliss... All you would have to do is check the "for rent" ads in your area to see that the numbers just don't add up. And not everyone is set up for higher education or even a trade. What about the poor schlep with an 85 IQ? Should he just be homeless? The FACT of the matter is... especially in the last three years with inflation, wages have not NEARLY kept up with the cost of living. You want to use the red herrings of iPhones and video games? What about $800 for a room for a month and $100 every time you go to the grocery store?
Yes... we geezers lucked out and got ours before it all went nuts, but that's nothing to be smug or proud about. If any of us were 20 right now, we'd be asking how tf am I supposed to make this work.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 15, 2024, 11:42:01 PM
If any of us were 20 right now, we'd be asking how tf am I supposed to make this work.
That's partially a result of ruinous economic decisions by the rulers and eloi of the world.
And ultimately the result of people allowing it to happen. Most of whom seem increasingly miseducated and thus not able to discern who and what is the problem. Which seems to be part of the scam.
Nations can't, without bad consequences, do things like this: (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=1e9GM)
Wonder how many people will get killed or injured because of their wokeness. Imagine requesting clearance to land and you instead hear "BARNEY!!!QQGHFXQWKND!!!!"
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Tracerfi on January 16, 2024, 08:18:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q0Pg7An.jpg)
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 16, 2024, 08:21:38 AM
Starting wage is now $20 an hour in Florida for a cable tech with zero experience
If you can't live off that you might want to examine your expenses
Turnover is huge as they last a paycheck and quit after realizing that they have to climb telephone poles, dig ditches, on call 24/7 and actually sweat their balls off..
OT is minimal now as they have shifted out the work to cover which lowers your gross if you weren't scared of long hours
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 16, 2024, 09:58:15 AM
Sounds like $20 an hour isn't enough to obtain the desired commodity.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Spikes on January 16, 2024, 10:06:41 AM
Sounds like $20 an hour isn't enough to obtain the desired commodity.
Yup. God forbid a person wants a proper work/life balance and not have to live paycheck to paycheck while purchasing the bare minimum to survive. You know, like it used to be back in the 70s/80s.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 16, 2024, 10:17:44 AM
Sounds like $20 an hour isn't enough to obtain the desired commodity.
Sounds like a fantastic starting wage..
Get in there and prove you are not the village idiot and you might actually start a career to grow in..
Not sure what you think would fix it...
We didn't break anything..we worked very hard and long and SAVED..lived within our means...something most aeem to have no clue on how to do these days regardless of how much they make..
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: The Fugitive on January 16, 2024, 12:12:12 PM
Get in there and prove you are not the village idiot and you might actually start a career to grow in..
Not sure what you think would fix it...
We didn't break anything..we worked very hard and long and SAVED..lived within our means...something most aeem to have no clue on how to do these days regardless of how much they make..
Eagler
Yup, maybe instead of crying about not making enough on minimum wage maybe you should work at spending better and work at it. Say instead of subscribing to 10 streaming venues you cut it down to 4-5. Instead of running out and buying the next greatest Iphone you stick with the one you have for 10 years. Instead of going out for dinner all the time or subscribing to those mail in food menus you learn to cook yourself.
We may not have had the same temptations the new generations had but we had our temptations that we didnt go for so that we could make rent and keep the lights on.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 16, 2024, 12:26:36 PM
No one who can afford a smart phone with a hundred dollar a month bill is being oppressed. When I was young, raising a family, groceries and rent were about all I could afford. I drove an old car and when I couldn't afford gas I walked. Young people think we had it easy. I didn't.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 16, 2024, 02:12:25 PM
No one who can afford a smart phone with a hundred dollar a month bill is being oppressed. When I was young, raising a family, groceries and rent were about all I could afford. I drove an old car and when I couldn't afford gas I walked. Young people think we had it easy. I didn't.
High speed internet, hundreds of TV channels on cable are other indicators of oppression these days...
Heck we are handing that out to millions of illegal immigrants these days...with a free cellphone so they can contact them for their court date lmfao
Yes we have the richest and most spoiled poor in the world and probably history
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: icepac on January 16, 2024, 03:45:10 PM
I checked around and “bush air” trains them. That was my first return on google. I used to work for FBOs and still find myself in a conversation about the lack of spin training and recovery from upsets. I’m flying more now than ever before since i have a C-177 at my disposal.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 16, 2024, 05:15:57 PM
Sounds like $20 an hour isn't enough to obtain the desired commodity.
Sure not. With entry level, one must be able to have 4 bedroom penthouse or same size villa at waterfront, less than 1 year old luxury SUV and, of course, currency enough to fly twice a year to Caribbean 5 star resort for a month.
Otherwise better stay at home, spending mornings by spitting to the ceiling and jink downcoming snots the afternoon.
Military paid my college tuition. They'll pay yours too. Not my fault you decline.
I think every American kid ought to do 2 years right out of high school. (That's mostly wasted time anyway. And I do mean "wasted". ;))
In return for free college when they get out. A very good investment for a country to uptrain their workforce. They make 3x profit on the investment on taxing higher life-time earnings.
Sending all those GIs to college after WWII on the Bill was the smartest thing we ever did. Gave us the great Golden Age of the American economy and standard of living in the 50's and 60's as that paid off.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: sparky127 on January 16, 2024, 10:30:06 PM
Health insurance? What's that? I had nothing until I join the AF. They're still recruiting and up to age 42 now.
Healthcare is a lot more expensive than it used to be. Back in 1973, if you fell and broke your arm, you go go to the hospital and get a cast and walk out for $50.
Now, you'll walk out with a $10k bill if you are uninsured.
Medical bills is the highest single cause of personal bankruptcy in the US. And a majority of those that went bankrupt for medical bills, had insurance.
$250 covers your cheap car payment, gas and insurance.
Maybe in 1973.
All in all, despite the advantages of youth, I'm glad I'm at my age near early retirement than to be a 20 yo today trying to make my way. It's going to be a lot harder than when I was 20. And as bad as it is now, its going to get so much worse over the next 10 years.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 07:13:07 AM
It's hard now for everyone and getting harder, not just the youth. Maybe we can make America great again.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 17, 2024, 07:45:14 AM
It's hard now for everyone and getting harder, not just the youth. Maybe we can make America great again.
Wouldn't bet on that ...corruption rules
Health care is criminal...catastrophic coverage for crazy money until Medicare kicks in this April
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 17, 2024, 08:07:19 AM
$20 an hour is different all over the country. $20 in Vegas is way better than $20 in Cali or Portland. These things cannot be set in stone. Zone economies are different all over the place, even in the same states. IMHO, most making $20 or less an hour aren't living by themselves. Shoot I didn't make $20 an hour until my 2nd Job out of college. Now I'm almost making double that due to moving and having to find new jobs, which paid me better as I gained more and more experience. I also was able to choose a career no one likes. Being young is tough, and you can either cry about it, or get to work and gain experience so you can move up. The majority of kids making $20 an hour are doing just fine. Its the ones who have no friends, no family, or anything to help them split rent. Most cars they have are purchased outright. Those in their 30-40s plus still making $20 an hour should probably look for another job tbh, there is potential to get something at 25.
Here's the truth. America is the land of opportunity. Opportunity doesn't mean sitting around begging someone else to do something. It means you have to go out there and get it, prove yourself, and eventually move up. Opportunity doesn't mean easy. But it does eventually help you find success if you go after it.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Max on January 17, 2024, 09:43:01 AM
Fed, state, local income tax? Sales tax? Insurance (home, renters, auto)? Medical exp? Entertainment? Dining? ...............................
You paint a very limited picture.
A person making a little over $40K isn't going to pay much in income tax. In Texas there is no state income tax, no sales tax on rent, no sales tax on groceries. Call it a grand a month left over after bills. That can buy a lot of entertainment. Of course people who have lived beyond their means driving up their credit card debt are probably going to struggle no matter how much their income.
Even $500 a month left over after bills and groceries allows for entertainment and marginal savings.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Spikes on January 17, 2024, 10:18:16 AM
A person making a little over $40K isn't going to pay much in income tax. In Texas there is no state income tax, no sales tax on rent, no sales tax on groceries. Call it a grand a month left over after bills. That can buy a lot of entertainment. Of course people who have lived beyond their means driving up their credit card debt are probably going to struggle no matter how much their income.
After income tax ($6k) and 401k contrib (6%), and health care ($6.5k) you're down to 27,500, or 2,250 a month. Decent apartment - $1200 Utilities - $400 Food - $300 Car - $250 Car ins. - $120
$-20 a month leftover to cover any misc. activity expenses, gas, dining, travel. Woohoo!
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 10:45:25 AM
So get married, reduce your taxes, maybe add a second income. Don't vote for socialism....
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Spikes on January 17, 2024, 10:50:25 AM
I'm not moving anything. Just being agreeable. I don't agree however that you need health insurance or a 401K. I certainly had neither in my early youth.
Maybe you/they need to get a better job. TI is opening a new plant here in Sherman TX next year. 5,000 new jobs. They say the average salary will be 50K. Other plants being built in support. Probably eight to ten thousand new plant jobs in a city of about 45,000. Of course those will bring other jobs too.
You want to live in an expensive and dying community not my problem.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 10:59:52 AM
BTW, I'd bet a dollar that 7 out 10 unmarried people in their 20's do not pay for health insurance nor have a 401K.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 11:12:43 AM
I get it that people are angry over the runaway inflation and unaffordable health care. Don't blame me though, I didn't vote for either. When I was young I understood it would take years to achieve the standard of living my parents earned, and it did.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 11:47:31 AM
#LearnToCode ;)
In Texas a young single person can get by on 40k. It's just not a easy as the boomers would have you believe and not as easy as it would have been when they were 20.
If the answer is just go without health insr, then I think the argument is disingenuous.
And no one is blaming Iron for anything. It's just large scale eco trends and aging demographics. We're going to have too many old people living off of SS with too few young people supporting the system. If I were them, I'd look up Soylent Green. ;)
Other countries like Germany are going to be way worse off. But young people are not going to have the same advantages that earlier generations had (post WWII). And no, it has nothing to do with "socialism". If anything, it has more to do with crony capitalism. But really it's demographics.
Young people today just need to learn:
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Spikes on January 17, 2024, 11:48:35 AM
I'm not moving anything. Just being agreeable. I don't agree however that you need health insurance or a 401K. I certainly had neither in my early youth.
You did, though: You cherrypicked some costs and posted them. I refuted and corrected some costs and added other typical costs that a person might run into. You dismissed the response and said "so get married", thus moving the goalposts.
I get it that people are angry over the runaway inflation and unaffordable health care. Don't blame me though, I didn't vote for either.
lol.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 11:56:34 AM
My grandkids are getting by on their own. Everyone is pissed though. Mostly at those who voted for this. And yes, while health care has been growing it took a dramatic jump when morons voted in those who passed a 5,000 page bill that had to be "approved before knowing what was in it". If you are one of those you have no sympathy from me.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 12:02:12 PM
I can't believe no one has thrown down the "OK, Boomer." card yet. ;)
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 12:10:43 PM
Astronomical health care, double digit inflation, etc.... Only more government can save us. It's almost like this was planned.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 17, 2024, 12:12:20 PM
It use to be pretty easy to open a small business and work for yourself and gain traction and growth with that. Now they've made it extremely tough to start a business and keep it running. Then most schools and colleges don't even teach how to start a business or how to manage accounting properly. Now it's extremely tough to afford a home. Now its expensive for healthcare ect.Next it will be extremely tough to afford a car. You see, it's all about making things more and more expensive so that you are forced to rent and forced to work for a large company. This is the direction 'they' are pushing us towards. They want this so that A. Everyone lives exactly the same B. Everyone makes exactly the same. C. Everyone takes public transportation. D. No one can get ahead of anyone else. E. They can ration food to everyone the same. F. Large corporations run everything, you get a stipend to buy products only from that large corporation, and all the tax money goes to the government who maintain this level of obedience and control through totalitarian control.
At the end of it, you will be wishing you could have your $20 an hour salary and be able to take a vacation once in a while. Where you could drive where ever you wanted and explore. .
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 17, 2024, 12:14:39 PM
Other countries like Germany are going to be way worse off. But young people are not going to have the same advantages that earlier generations had (post WWII). And no, it has nothing to do with "socialism". If anything, it has more to do with crony capitalism. But really it's demographics.
Germany and many other EU countries, which have had long time left wing in power, are economically in dire straits. And it is pretty much because of demographics created by socialists. Billions and billions every year for those who come to EU just to live with social security, without any attempt to learn the language, work or study. And then they show their gratitude by complaining, rioting and committing crimes.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 12:19:58 PM
Germany and many other EU countries, which have had long time left wing in power, are economically in dire straits. And it is pretty much because of demographics created by socialists. Billions and billions every year for those who come to EU just to live with social security, without any attempt to learn the language, work or study. And then they show their gratitude by complaining, rioting and committing crimes.
The demographics are largely due to increased urbanization since WWII.
People in apartments have less kids than people living on farms.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 12:23:23 PM
Iran is doing their darndest to get WWIII going. Will be dramatic changes for everyone if they have their way.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 17, 2024, 12:30:53 PM
The demographics are largely due to increased urbanization since WWII.
People in apartments have less kids than people living on farms.
These demographs I mean are caused by open borders, leftist "everyone welcome"-attitude. Leftist need to haul more and more "families in distress" (where mother, father and kids are all male, about same age) to show, what kind of angels they are. That costs more than they can afford and has lead to totally reckless borrowing and many countries are up to their ears in debts.
Everyone telling the truth of these actions is immediately stamped with names I don't want to mention in here. Like in Finland, where right wing won the last Parliamentary elections and is now trying to patch the sinking boat, opposition is doing everything to topple them.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 12:32:17 PM
Iran is doing their darndest to get WWIII going. Will be dramatic changes for everyone if they have their way.
China has told it's military to be prepared to pacify the province of Taiwan by 2027.
If Russia takes Ukraine, they will very soon move on to Romania (Bessarabian Gap), Poland (Polish Gap), and the Baltic states (Baltic Coast). Maybe Sweden and Finland. They will lose millions but Russians don't care. This generation is expendable and the last one they will have anyway to have a chance at capturing those defensible geographic choke points. A tactical nuke will get used by someone at some point.
We should be spooling up our industry to wartime production now.
So yeah. A stickier world today than the late 70, 80's and 90's. Even VN as painful as it was, as far as scale, was really nothing compared to WWII and what's coming.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 12:37:26 PM
The world is definitely more volatile today than in recent decades. We came pretty close back in Oct of '62 though. Frequent "tornado" drills at school back then.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 12:40:39 PM
These demographs I mean are caused by open borders, leftist "everyone welcome"-attitude.
Well, part of their reasoning may have been to use immigration to soften the demographic apocalypse. Germany will NOT be able to sustain it's current economic output with it's natural born population. That's already baked in and can't be reversed in time now.
Of course the numbers don't work. Even if they took every immigrant that wants to come would not be enough at this point. It would barely even soften the curve.
It's always hard to absorb immigrants. At one time, in this country, bars would have signs, "No <n-word>, dogs, or Irishmen allowed!" But at least if you are white, within a generation you can lose the accent, ditch the funny hats, make a little money bootlegging and Bobs-your-Uncle! You go from fresh off the boat to being a Kennedy in the White House. ;)
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: TryHard on January 17, 2024, 12:47:50 PM
What does any of this have to do with a door flying off an airplane?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 12:53:17 PM
Loose bolts maybe caused by declining maintenance standards. Maintenance standards declining because less pride, lower morale. Lower morale due to less hope for economic future. All speculation of course, which is what we do here.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 17, 2024, 01:09:07 PM
Well, part of their reasoning may have been to use immigration to soften the demographic apocalypse. Germany will NOT be able to sustain it's current economic output with it's natural born population. That's already baked in and can't be reversed in time now.
Of course the numbers don't work. Even if they took every immigrant that wants to come would not be enough at this point. It would barely even soften the curve.
Numbers would help a lot, if those taken in would integrate and start living like natives, but it's 1-digit per cent number, which do it. Most just come to have all inclusive for rest of their life and some say it may have something to do with clash of religions, as why exactly young men suitable for armed service are filling all 'rescue' ships and asylum centers. Rescue ships, which pick them few miles from African coast, and bring them to closest safe harbor, which is surprisingly some hundred miles more north.
That has costed governments billions, and will cost as long as this kind of asylum tourism for better economy in life is supported. Main reason, why right wing parties are rising. Especially very much right ones, as folks in many places have had enough.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 01:18:59 PM
Numbers would help a lot, if those taken in would integrate and start living like natives,
Every immigrant group does that at first. That's how you get Chinatown, Koreatown, Little Italy, Boston. ;) We survived it. Even Boston. Sure religion is always an issue, but the Irish were called dirty Papists. As hated as any other and clannish and insular answering to a foreign prince. We survived it.
Within a generation their kids assimilate.
The big problem is countries where they don't ALLOW them to assimilate. That's why places like France had much more problem with Muslims that the US. In France they are never really accepted and kept in the ghettos festering. They were never gong to be accepted as truly French so no true assimilation is possible.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 17, 2024, 01:38:56 PM
Hate to say it, but until Islam gets reformed, allows woman to educate themselves, allows the removal of burka and hijab, and stops allowing their 6 year old daighters to be married, and learns how to work outside of the government jobs. They will never assimilate, and only bring the culture they are invading down. This has happened to so many countries. Then once one of them gets into power, they change the system, try to implement sharia policies, and eventually turn it into thr same place they left. It happens over and over again with Islam. people's niceness will be taken advantage of.
BTW, I don't buy the "not enough people to work" theory. They said the same thing about slavery. And then walla new technology was invented. Just like what AI will do.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 17, 2024, 01:45:44 PM
It's Idiocracy in full swing..
The intelligent couples don't want to bring children into this mess so the lesser intelligent are doing most of the breeding these days...
Add illegal immigrants with a high school diploma at best and you have the decline we are experiencing today
Throw in record obesity and you have the health and intelligence crisis we face today in our work force, health care and military
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 17, 2024, 04:01:03 PM
It seems like Russia already has most of the portion it wanted. I doubt that Ukraine is going to win.
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they will very soon move on to Romania (Bessarabian Gap), Poland (Polish Gap), and the Baltic states (Baltic Coast). Maybe Sweden and Finland. They will lose millions but Russians don't care.
I doubt that. I don't think Russia could handle the losses or the economic cost (let alone both) for more than Ukraine. Invading those other countries would be an order of magnitude harder for them.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 04:15:52 PM
Or are any of these, which have higher than the US median:
My point was that it is easier for them to blend in with the native population once they lose the accent, than say a migrant from Nigeria or China or Japan.
Same with Italians and Germans.
In a generation, you can't tell them from families that came over on the Mayflower, walking down the street. That makes assimilation a lot easier.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 04:17:32 PM
I doubt that. I don't think Russia could handle the losses or the economic cost (let alone both) for more than Ukraine. Invading those other countries would be an order of magnitude harder for them.
I disagree. And just because it would be stupid, are you saying the russian wouldn't do it? Because they make such good, rational decisions?
Perhaps. Depends on definition of "win". Afghanistan didn't "win" initially. But after a decade of bleeding them they forced them to tuck tail and retreat. So are we talking short game or long game?
If they roll over Kiev it changes nothing. We simply move into the next phase. Supported resistance. Imagine the French Resistance armed with drones.
And of course the sanctions are kept at full force until the last russian boot is rotting in the mud or marching home.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Shuffler on January 17, 2024, 04:21:57 PM
If you are implying what I think you are. You are one of those that vilify people that are not able to work due to various reasons and don't care about their right to live because it doesn't concern you.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 17, 2024, 04:37:20 PM
My point was that it is easier for them to blend ....That makes assimilation a lot easier.
So does following the laws and not having some odd sense of entitlement
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 04:47:36 PM
Why are there many different countries/nations? I would suggest these have been formed and dissolved over the millennia based on common values and culture. Rome absorbed many cultures over centuries almost successfully. But not quite.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 17, 2024, 04:58:09 PM
I disagree. And just because it would be stupid, are you saying the russian wouldn't do it? Because they make such good, rational decisions?
I agree that such decisions aren't always rational. But there are things like these that don't all apply universally: -- A bunch of eastern Ukraine people might be happy to be part of Russia. -- Aspects of Ukraine's strategic position, being part of NATO, and the US's use of all that was handled in a way that maximized chances of war.
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Afghanistan didn't "win" initially.
It's hard to keep control of a region where there are plentiful natives who hate you.
Also: US control of Vietnam, Shah's Iran, British control of Rhodesia, French control of Algeria, Dutch control of South Africa, US control of Iraq, etc.
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And of course the sanctions are kept at full force until the last russian boot is rotting in the mud or marching home.
Russia can (and does now) sell its resources through China, India, etc. to the rest of the world.
Also, sanctions weaken the US dollar. US use of dollar as a weapon decreases perception of its safety and increases the motivation to build other currency systems.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2024, 05:08:06 PM
It's hard to keep control of a region where there are plentiful natives who hate you.
Exactly. We just move to the next phase. Only difference is we just change the mix of intel we feed them and the weapons we get into their hands. Every drunk russian that stumbles out of a bar gets his throat slit in the alley. Every general who gets into his car to drive to headquarters gets a drone up the wazoo.
Russia can (and does now) sell its resources through China, India, etc. to the rest of the world.
Also, sanctions weaken the US dollar. US use of dollar as a weapon decreases perception of its safety and increases the motivation to build other currency systems.
Irrelevant. Our system is stronger and we can absorb more pain. Their system will crater first. It's how we defeated the Soviets. And present day russia is a pale, pale shadow of the Soviet Union.
Next we need to lease the Ukrainians some of our old mothballed diesel subs. $1 per decade per sub. Payments suspended for 50 years. Train them up. Send them intel on which tankers are carrying russian oil. Where they are. What their route is. What the captain had for breakfast. What kind of pron he surfs. Then announce that we cannot guarantee the safety of any tanker carrying russian oil in violation of sanctions. Then let things take their natural course.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2024, 05:31:26 PM
Anyone seen Boroda lately? I'd enjoy his take on the current situation.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 17, 2024, 07:05:56 PM
My point is that eastern Ukraine perhaps doesn't hate Russians. Maybe even would like to be part of Russia instead of part of Ukraine.
Like Texians who didn't want to be part of Mexico. US passed a bill authorizing annexation of Texas if the Texians voted in favor of annexation. They so voted, and the US so annexed. Even though Mexico said it would be an act of war if the US did that. the Mexican-American War ensued. And the US got Texas -- as well as Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Wyoming.
The Donbass voted to be part of Russia -- was that a scam, or do they feel that way? Despite mainstream western governments and their friendly new agencies saying it was a scam, who knows? I'm skeptical about all news and statements these days.
To me, the Ukraine War is a huge tragedy all around that seems like it could have been easily avoided.
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Irrelevant. Our system is stronger and we can absorb more pain. Their system will crater first. It's how we defeated the Soviets. And present day russia is a pale, pale shadow of the Soviet Union.
The Soviets defeated themselves with an authoritarian system that their citizenry hated and with a moronic, doomed-to-fail economic system -- socialism. We hurried it along with a lot of military spending that the Soviets tried to keep up with. But they were doomed regardless.
The current Russia has a large problem with corruption. But their economy functions vastly better than under Soviet socialism. And there are plenty of places in the world that are happy to buy their oil and other resources.
There will be downs, and ups, as this or that sanction is tweaked, and then circumvented. But sanctions or no, laws or no, impediments or no, willing customers win in the end.
That's why there have been, are, and probably always will be black markets.
The US severely criminalizes illegal drug use, sales, transport, and manufacture. It has spent a $TRILLION in the War on Drugs. Yet there is still plenty of drug use. And so much money in it that drug cartels sometimes vie for national control or at least control over regions of nations (Columbia, Mexico). Maybe even enough to buy off some US politicians (seeing how things have been handled with respect to fentanyl, border, OxyContin, etc.).
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Next we need
There are things that maybe could work, but are very unlikely to be done for auxiliary reasons.
My opinion is that a lot of money is made from, and a lot of distraction is created from, the Ukraine War. I would not at all be surprised if the largest motivation is to keep it going as long as possible.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 18, 2024, 07:43:38 AM
Brooke
Some here will call you a Russian bot thinking like that...even if what you say is true
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 09:24:09 AM
Some here will call you a Russian bot thinking like that...even if what you say is true
Some are. Regardless of whether they are self aware enough to realize it.
It is amazing and disconcerting, but human nature I guess. Before WWII then was a significant minority of confused Americans that were very pro-Nazi and gleefully lapped up Nazi propaganda. Like enough to fill Madison Square Garden in rallies.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 09:28:09 AM
To me, the Ukraine War is a huge tragedy all around that seems like it could have been easily avoided.
Yes. By russia not invading a sovereign neighbor.
All the rest is just tin-foil hat stuff. Bon Appetit.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 18, 2024, 09:46:54 AM
I have some experience of Russia and conflicts. Only forcing tsar Putain out of Ukraine's territory will end the war. Frozen conflict achieved with some ceasefire or armistice will just be a source of new, even more serious conflict, because in Kremlin it would be considered as a victory and will give Russia time to reorganize and strengthen its military.
Russia has for centuries been thinking it can tell its neighbors what they are allowed to do. If that cannot be broken, it will remain threat to its neighbors. It's like a school bully, always picking someone who it thinks to be easy target. Bully needs bloody nose and awareness of more and worse beating, if it does not behave.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: icepac on January 18, 2024, 10:18:53 AM
I’ve been watching russian dashcam videos. When presented with potentially rear ending a stopped or slowed car, the russians don’t break right or hit the car in front. They always choose the head on option. I’ve also noticed they never use braking when in trouble.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 10:20:34 AM
I’ve been watching russian dashcam videos. When presented with potentially rear ending a stopped or slowed car, the russians don’t break right or hit the car in front. They always choose the head on option. I’ve also noticed they never use braking when in trouble.
If they are russian, they may just be passed out drunk behind the wheel. ;)
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Shuffler on January 18, 2024, 03:40:02 PM
If you are implying what I think you are. You are one of those that vilify people that are not able to work due to various reasons and don't care about their right to live because it doesn't concern you.
There are those deserving, and there are those that are not. I have no problem cutting the burden.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 18, 2024, 04:38:41 PM
Yet so willing to believe every bit of propaganda from an ex-KGB colonel.
No. In fact, I don't know who you are talking about. Let me know, I'll go read what it is, and get back to you on what I think, if you want.
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Yes. By russia not invading a sovereign neighbor.
Yes. And I think that could have been achieved. Instead, to me, the actions taken look like what you'd do if you were trying to help it happen that way.
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All the rest is just tin-foil hat stuff.
Not the stuff about economics and sanctions.
The other stuff, sure. It's speculation that doesn't match the mainstream narrative.
But I have a question for you. When the Nord Stream pipeline was sabotaged, and the mainstream media came out with its first explanation of what was going on, did you classify thoughts of "that's complete BS" as being tinfoil hat?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 05:27:54 PM
No thanks.
I made a New Years resolution not to go down rabbit holes with tin-foil hatters, flat-earthers, or Birchers. I'm not going to argue with DmonSlayer about crop circles or QAnon anymore either. ;)
No one caused this but Putin when he ordered his tanks across the border.
The only reason he did is because he wants that land, to secure the stolen Crimea, and wants the corridor to move on to the next target.
Which will eventually be Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and possibly Finland and Sweden. When he does certain types will claim that was never the plan but the West made him mad. It is the plan. It was always the plan. It was the plan in Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea... To recapture or control the geographic chokepoints controlled by the old Soviet Union that they feel they need to create a secure perimeter. That's what the ex-KGB colonel wants to achieve before he passes. He is willing to pay any price because he thinks Russia has a higher pain threshold than the West and he thinks he can win by out bleeding us. And he believes there are those in the West that will regurgitate his talking points on demand.
We send weapon to let the Ukrainians stop him or we end up fighting him with NATO troops in Poland.
It's not Fake News, it's not a George Soros plot, Its not the Reptilians or the Elders of Zion. It's regular old Great Power struggles.
Believe what ever fringe gets you off. Bon Appetit.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 18, 2024, 05:48:53 PM
CptTrips knows who blew the pipeline and so does the rest of the globe...
Joey said he'd do it and he did ... no mystery there
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2024, 05:53:30 PM
I made a New Years resolution not to go down rabbit holes with tin-foil hatters, flat-earthers, or Birchers. I'm not going to argue with DmonSlayer about crop circles or QAnon anymore either. ;)
No one caused this but Putin when he ordered his tanks across the border.
The only reason he did is because he wants that land, to secure the stolen Crimea, and wants the corridor to move on to the next target.
Which will eventually be Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and possibly Finland and Sweden. When he does certain types will claim that was never the plan but the West made him mad. It is the plan. It was always the plan. It was the plan in Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea... To recapture or control the geographic chokepoints controlled by the old Soviet Union that they feel they need to create a secure perimeter. That's what the ex-KGB colonel wants to achieve before he passes. He is willing to pay any price because he thinks Russia has a higher pain threshold than the West and he thinks he can win by out bleeding us. And he believes there are those in the West that will regurgitate his talking points on demand.
We send weapon to let the Ukrainians stop him or we end up fighting him with NATO troops in Poland.
It's not Fake News, it's not a George Soros plot, Its not the Reptilians or the Elders of Zion. It's regular old Great Power struggles.
Believe what ever fringe gets you off. Bon Appetit.
Thank you for this. I believe you are exactly on point.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2024, 12:46:11 AM
No one caused this but Putin when he ordered his tanks across the border.
Yes, Russia did that. What Russia did and is doing is bad.
The US is trying to fix that, now that it is a huge disaster. A better time to fix it would have been before it was a huge disaster. It is way easier, cheaper, and better to fix a thing before it is a giant disaster.
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That's what the ex-KGB colonel wants to achieve before he passes.
OK, now I know what you meant with:
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Yet so willing to believe every bit of propaganda from an ex-KGB colonel.
So, no. I'm skeptical of all government pronouncements and news.
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We send weapon to let the Ukrainians stop him
It's looking like that didn't work so far, though, with $70 billion contributed.
Do you feel the US should spend an unlimited amount in an effort to see it work, or do think there exists some cap?
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It's not Fake News, it's not a George Soros plot, Its not the Reptilians or the Elders of Zion.
I was asking about the Nord Stream pipeline sabotage, though. Do you think the Russians did it, like the mainstream news and government said when it happened?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2024, 07:57:28 AM
Just more tin foil hat russian bot stuff right?
It could have and should have been avoided not encouraged as it was
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 19, 2024, 08:44:51 AM
Yes, Russia did that. What Russia did and is doing is bad.
The US is trying to fix that, now that it is a huge disaster. A better time to fix it would have been before it was a huge disaster. It is way easier, cheaper, and better to fix a thing before it is a giant disaster.
OK, now I know what you meant with:
So, no. I'm skeptical of all government pronouncements and news.
It's looking like that didn't work so far, though, with $70 billion contributed.
Do you feel the US should spend an unlimited amount in an effort to see it work, or do think there exists some cap?
I was asking about the Nord Stream pipeline sabotage, though. Do you think the Russians did it, like the mainstream news and government said when it happened?
He refuses to acknowledge "western UN" propaganda which is why you can't have a logical debate with these people. Everything Russia does is bad, everything UN does is good. That's why they bring out the "muh Q, muh reptilian, ect when they cannot debate. Even though no one brought those up for years except them. It's why Russia went in in the first place. The UN turned a cold shoulder, allowed Ukrainian corruption on the Russia border for years, and the bear finally bit back. It's like that video of the dog barking in the alligators face until one day the alligator snapped and ate it.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2024, 08:54:10 AM
Ya know that girl that got raped? Well, she really kinda had it coming. She was wearing makeup and dressing sexy. She went to that party and was out past 9pm without a male relative escorting her.
We need to look at this from the rapist’s point of view. He really had no choice. She made him do it. It really wasn’t his fault.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2024, 09:30:38 AM
?
Are you OK?
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2024, 09:49:38 AM
Yes it sure was as it has nothing to do with the Ukraine mess
You are just too intelligent and crafty for me to follow...lol
Now call me a Russian bot again as I want peace...
Eagler
Perhaps you should lookup what an allegory is.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
I think the whole thing is a George Soros plot, run by Hunter Biden on orders from Hillary and the Reptilians. Vlad after all, is a heroic defender of conservative Christianity and conservative values. The truth is out there on the internet. I can send you some videos if they haven't been suppressed already by the UN.
Oh, look up what satire is as well. ;)
Bon Appetit.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2024, 10:32:28 AM
We have had this discussion way too many times already
Enjoy your war
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2024, 10:36:32 AM
Ya know that girl that got raped? Well, she really kinda had it coming. She was wearing makeup and dressing sexy. She went to that party and was out past 9pm without a male relative escorting her.
We need to look at this from the rapist’s point of view. He really had no choice. She made him do it. It really wasn’t his fault.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
That is the exact logic ghetto scum use when they are arrested for rape
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2024, 11:27:21 AM
More like, "Put your kids seatbelt on or watch them go through the windshield later."
Some won't listen and then wail, "OMG how could this have happened? No one could have predicted this tragedy."
Here is a spatula. Shut up and scrape you kid off the road.
July 28, 1914 - April 6, 1917.... September 1, 1939 - December 7, 1941.... suggests a history of "not my problem", "maybe it will go away", or at worst "not sure what side I'm on".
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2024, 01:07:00 PM
July 28, 1914 - April 6, 1917.... September 1, 1939 - December 7, 1941.... suggests a history of "not my problem", "maybe it will go away", or at worst "not sure what side I'm on".
You'd think that a community steeped in WWII history would have learned the obvious lessons about a land hungry, psychotic murdering dictator who thinks he can bully and threaten his way across Europe and take territory by force, for no other reason than he wants it; and that appeasement is not the way to handle it.
How many millions less dead would we have had if everyone stomped on Hitler with both boots the second he tried the first bit of BS instead of waiting until it would be much, much more expensive later?
Also, Hamas, Iran, Russia, China, Norks, are in political and military alliance. You lick the boots of one, you are tasting all of them.
A time of choosing sides is coming.
But half these people probably think we shouldn't have fought Hitler. Not our problem.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2024, 01:22:34 PM
Heh... And here I thought the righty-tighties were supposed to be the war mongers.
Speaking of learning from history... Kennedy was willing to risk nuclear war to keep the Soviets out of Cuba.
Was he?..if you say so
Then was assassinated for not wanting to put us in Vietnam..does not seem to add up but ok
I am a conservative but a hippy at heart peaceful conservative..Yes a rare one..more just right center with more than average common sense it would seem
I actually thought war had been downgraded to terrorists with cellphones and ieds...thought a war between super powers was a thing of the past but we obviously aren't that enlightened yet..
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2024, 04:34:07 PM
Yes, I do say so. And he was justified. And a large majority of Americans agreed that he was justified. We don't need enemy missiles creeping ever closer and closer. A missile launched from Cuba could hit most major US cities within five minutes. We sure don't need that.
How far is it from Ukraine to Moscow?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2024, 06:59:01 PM
US is giving money and doing sanctions, but it is looking like Ukraine will be defeated.
Independent of any of that, the US failed to keep it from happening, which would have been best. That's just an opinion about the past and doesn't change anything today.
What in this is deflecting?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2024, 07:00:49 PM
CptTrips, did you believe the US news and government when it said the Russians blew up the Nord Stream pipeline?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2024, 05:34:48 AM
CptTrips, did you believe the US news and government when it said the Russians blew up the Nord Stream pipeline?
I saw no mainstream reporting that claimed Russia definitely blew up the Nordstream. Got a link?
What I saw was they said it was a mystery and analyzed the different players and the likelihood of it being Russia or not.
What I saw on here was a bunch of Eaglerisms of, "Oh the US is so corrupt. I bet it was Brandon that did it!" and it made no sense to me that it would have been the US.
I hadn't given enough Ukraine enough consideration because I just didn't think they had that capability to operate that far afield. That would make more sense as they are striking at an enemy trying to destroy their country and wipe out their ethnicity. Like how Britain was forced to have to destroy the French fleet to deny Hitler the asset.
Bottomline, there has not been such a clear cut case of right and wrong seen since WWII. There has never been a more clear cut need to stand up against dictatorial aggression in Europe since Hitler. And a lot of people are failing that generational moral test. Period. Full stop.
Everything else is just Quisling prattle.
Anyway, forgetting my New Years resolution. :rofl
You girls have fun.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 20, 2024, 06:28:02 AM
I saw no mainstream reporting that claimed Russia definitely blew up the Nordstream. Got a link?
What I saw was they said it was a mystery and analyzed the different players and the likelihood of it being Russia or not.
What I saw on here was a bunch of Eaglerisms of, "Oh the US is so corrupt. I bet it was Brandon that did it!" and it made no sense to me that it would have been the US.
I hadn't given enough Ukraine enough consideration because I just didn't think they had that capability to operate that far afield. That would make more sense as they are striking at an enemy trying to destroy their country and wipe out their ethnicity. Like how Britain was forced to have to destroy the French fleet to deny Hitler the asset.
Bottomline, there has not been such a clear cut case of right and wrong seen since WWII. There has never been a more clear cut need to stand up against dictatorial aggression in Europe since Hitler. And a lot of people are failing that generational moral test. Period. Full stop.
Everything else is just Quisling prattle.
Anyway, forgetting my New Years resolution. :rofl
You girls have fun.
Lol no deflection there
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 20, 2024, 05:58:25 PM
[replaced by below]
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Eagler on January 20, 2024, 06:15:07 PM
What I saw on here was a bunch of Eaglerisms of, "Oh the US is so corrupt. I bet it was Brandon that did it!" and it made no sense to me that it would have been the US.
Lol I like it . Another Eaglerism: We did increase sales of natural gas to the EU after we blew the pipeline
Eagler
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: Brooke on January 20, 2024, 08:03:24 PM
I saw no mainstream reporting that claimed Russia definitely blew up the Nordstream. Got a link?
I was wondering if you thought the Russia did it, back in the early news cycle.
Did you think Russia did it?
My point isn't the semantics of the news. My point isn't whether or not people used the word "definitely" or "100% certain!" when telling everyone that it sure looked like Russia did it and giving all the reasons why Russia would do it.
Again, my point: Early on, did you think Russia did it?
Separate from that question and not important compared to that question, here's a sample of news from that time period, if you want to look at it:
"Russia Blows Up Gas Pipelines, Declaring an All-Out Energy War It May Already Have Lost" https://time.com/6218125/russia-gas-pipelines-energy-war/
"Russia’s Attack on Nord Stream Pipelines Means Putin Has Truly Weaponized Energy" https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/russias-attack-nord-stream-pipelines-means-putin-has-truly-weaponized
"‘Only Russia’ could be behind Nord Stream leaks, says former German intel chief" https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-nord-stream-pipeline-could-be-behind-nord-stream-leaks-says-former-german-intel-chief/
"Ex-CIA director shares the most likely suspect for Nord Stream leaks." https://youtu.be/9p6mWnT8G2c
"The US has said it "seems" Russia is to blame for this week's leaks in the Nord Stream gas pipelines." https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63084613
"Why would Putin sabotage the Nord Stream pipeline? | Russia Ukraine update" https://youtu.be/cWdKK06-7EE
"Why Putin would want to blow up Nord Stream 2, and the advantages it gives him" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/27/putins-nord-stream-2-sabotage-sends-warning-will-blow-pipes/
"It may never be possible to determine definitively whether Monday’s underwater explosions at the two Nord Stream gas pipelines were the work of Russian sabotage, but it is certainly the way to bet." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/27/whether-or-not-russia-was-behind-the-nord-stream-blasts-little-was-at-stake
"Nord Stream: Ukraine accuses Russia of pipeline terror attack" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63044747
Quote
What I saw on here was a bunch of Eaglerisms of, "Oh the US is so corrupt. I bet it was Brandon that did it!" and it made no sense to me that it would have been the US.
Biden publicly stated -- with certainty -- that the US would do it if Russia invaded. Since it so vowed, the US saw the sense in doing it. Since there were reporters asking about it, they saw the potential sense in doing it. https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=81
Also, Russia controls the input to the pipeline. If Russia didn't want gas going in, it could just not pump any. On the other side, you have the US stating that it would certainly destroy Nord Stream. The US benefits in multiple ways: by wrecking something that could generate money for Russia, removing something that increased Russian impact in and influence in Europe (especially at a time of fuel shortages in Europe), and eliminating potential supply that would result in more gas purchase from the US.
Quote
I hadn't given enough Ukraine enough consideration because I just didn't think they had that capability
Cap, you read history. You know the vast history of geopolitical covert maneuverings, British colonial exploits, manipulation of popular opinion, CIA covert ops, Cold War, Cuban Missile Crisis, etc. You know that governments (US included) use news and mouthpieces to roll out narratives and influence public opinion. Is it "tinfoil hat" to think that the early news cycle, pointing to Russia blowing up its own pipeline, wasn't credible? Lots of folks thought that. Now we are on to "Ukraine did it". That also seems unlikely (at least to the extent that they did it without help or initiated it). To lots of folks, including to Seymour Hersh.
Quote
And a lot of people are failing that generational moral test. Period. Full stop.
The US is contributing weapons and cash ($70 billion so far) and spearheading sanctions. There are other atrocities that happen in the world. Even now, ones almost no Americans know and news doesn't care about, Darfur, Mayanmar, for example. If we aren't out there advocating for substantial US involvement all of those, too, are we failing morally?
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 21, 2024, 09:15:11 AM
I think that is GG, Brooke :rofl now they wonder why so many of us have trust issues with the "global order" media, as they like to call themselves.
Title: Re: Loose bolts
Post by: GasTeddy on January 21, 2024, 11:35:33 AM
Finally a topic which haven't slipped from its original subject... :rolleyes: