Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on March 17, 2025, 01:40:19 PM

Title: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 17, 2025, 01:40:19 PM
Been asking Hitech to allow updating of the older maps. Most need Convey and Trains added, some have spawns no longer used. Many of the older maps have room for additional bases to be added, thus reducing the flight time to a fight.

One item that impacts fights, is the distance from base to town. Most of the newer maps follow Bustr's example on the Fjords map. That is a spawn from the base to a location between town and the remote spawns in. Actual distance from the base to the local town is a minimum of 1 mile, with some maps set at 2 miles.

Should Flak bases be added to all Strats? With gv's enabled, aircraft enabled, and guns enabled?

Gv spawn into Strats?

For those maps with Ports and CV's, do we add BB's? Increase the number of Ports and TG's?

Or would it be better to just add new maps?

I would love to hear ideas and suggestions.  :aok
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: mERv on March 17, 2025, 05:23:46 PM
Absolutely no c47s at flak bases.

In return I would be ok with 163's at flak bases...
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 17, 2025, 07:18:43 PM
I've met my quota of bad ideas already this year. However, I'm good for breaking records so,..

Seems to me everything we have should be in every map we have, and every map we have should be updated with any fixes or deleted.

Why were these items not being used? Are there bugs? <scratches head> Did they serve a purpose? I don't recall.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 17, 2025, 08:47:38 PM
Absolutely no c47s at flak bases.

In return I would be ok with 163's at flak bases...

Yeah I agree, the C47's are a bad idea at the strats, except for the City. That is the only one I could argue with you about. As to 163's at flak bases, runway is too short. You could however have a selection of Fighters that could take off from that short runway
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 17, 2025, 08:53:00 PM
I've met my quota of bad ideas already this year. However, I'm good for breaking records so,..

Seems to me everything we have should be in every map we have, and every map we have should be updated with any fixes or deleted.

Why were these items not being used? Are there bugs? <scratches head> Did they serve a purpose? I don't recall.

Most were objects left over from AH2, like convoys and trains (no roads or tracks), spawns that go no where were left over from AH2 original Strat locations. :aok
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 17, 2025, 09:00:32 PM
Most were objects left over from AH2, like convoys and trains (no roads or tracks), spawns that go no where were left over from AH2 original Strat locations. :aok

Just FYI, filmed a convoy on a road a cpl days ago. Don't know what map it was on. I thought maybe they supplied strats or sumthin
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Shane on March 18, 2025, 12:18:22 AM
I'd suggest that each country has gv spawns into each other, even if they cross water... GVs "drive" a lot of the action.   This would also be good for those newer maps where action spawns seem to go in the same direction. 

Less speedtree density.

Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Chris79 on March 18, 2025, 08:05:32 AM
Which maps are we talking about?
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 18, 2025, 08:47:33 AM
Most maps have their name in the upper right corner, with some in the lower right corner. Animl I am sure what you saw was one of the older maps I am referring to.

Shane, I agree on all accounts.

Chris here is a list of the current AH3 rotation;

Rotation Index      Map Size           Designer
0   sfma2016      256X256           AH2 map
1   riftval              256X256           Bustr
2   fjordma      256X256           Bustr
3   grinder              256X256           AH2 map
4   baltic              256X256           AH2 map
5   montis              256X256           AH2 map (update currently in progress)
6   mindnao      256X256           AH2 map
7   bowlma      512X512           Bustr
8   smpizza      256X256           AH2 map
9   buzzsaw      512X512           Waffle
10   craterma      256X256           Greebo
11   oceania      256X256           Bustr
13   ndisles      256X256           updated by Kenai77
14   natoma      256X256           Kenai77
15   northco      256X256           Kong
16   etoma      256X256           Kenai77/Oboe
17   3points      256X256           Kenai77
18   atoll              256X256           Kong
19   badlands      256X256           Kong
20   crags              256X256           Kong
21   blacksea      256X256           Kenai77
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Kini on March 18, 2025, 09:23:12 AM
Curious would adding a destructible vehicle hanger on the edge of towns associated to a field be destabilizing to the game play.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: The Fugitive on March 18, 2025, 09:37:13 AM
Updating older maps is always a risky business.

Adding the BBs, OK
Fixing the missing/not working issues, OK

But when you start moving things around it can get tricky. We have had these maps for a while and most have their favorite and its a favorite because of small things. A base with a certain span, or bases in a certain proximity, or a layout with small bases not medium or large bases in the area that might knock the balance out of that map. One of the biggest changes of a map was when they took out Tank Town on "craterma". The new version is a ghost town. The old version had so many players in tanks that dont normally drive tanks. You could survive long enough to learn a trick or two, maybe even get a kill or two before you died only because there were just so many targets! That update destroyed the best part of that map.

Minor tweaks seem to work out well. Kenai's update on "ndisles" I think works well. Did it mess with the tank town on the big island? I dont know, never spent much time there. It never had the same popularity as the crater map TT.

Personally I would rather see new maps. The guys building the maps are getting pretty good at making maps that seem to almost force action in areas. Also, new means you have to "find" your way around and learn the layout making it more of a challenge.

I agree that the tree count should be "cut down" <--- see what I did there  :D

Curious would adding a destructible vehicle hanger on the edge of towns associated to a field be destabilizing to the game play.

I dont think you can as the hangers are part of the tile they are on and not separate objects.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: popeye on March 18, 2025, 10:08:01 AM
As you can tell from my maps, I like symmetry in the layout of fields and strats.  One "fix" I would like to see is relocating some of the spawns on the Baltic map.  Some of the spawns give strat resupply advantage to one country and not to the others.  Some of the spawns go nowhere -- I suspect they were near strats at some time in the past and the strats were relocated.

As for tree density, I am not much of a tank guy so can't really tell what makes for good tank fights.  If a dedicated tank driver has time and interest, I'd be happy to have some feedback on my maps in that respect.  I have a new map ready to go, but haven't submitted it to HT.  I could upload it to the server, so players could drive around and see how it might work for tank fights.

I also have "updated" versions of all my other maps that I have tried to change based on how they have played.  Haven't talked to HT about that, so don't know if he as the time/interest in vetting the updated versions.

Seems to me that C-47s located to resupply strats is not any different than vehicle spawns as long as the flight/drive takes about the same time.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 18, 2025, 10:51:58 AM
Not fond of removing more trees concept. The maps will start to look lame.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 18, 2025, 01:55:42 PM
As you can tell from my maps, I like symmetry in the layout of fields and strats.  One "fix" I would like to see is relocating some of the spawns on the Baltic map.  Some of the spawns give strat resupply advantage to one country and not to the others.  Some of the spawns go nowhere -- I suspect they were near strats at some time in the past and the strats were relocated.

As for tree density, I am not much of a tank guy so can't really tell what makes for good tank fights.  If a dedicated tank driver has time and interest, I'd be happy to have some feedback on my maps in that respect.  I have a new map ready to go, but haven't submitted it to HT.  I could upload it to the server, so players could drive around and see how it might work for tank fights.

I also have "updated" versions of all my other maps that I have tried to change based on how they have played.  Haven't talked to HT about that, so don't know if he as the time/interest in vetting the updated versions.

Seems to me that C-47s located to resupply strats is not any different than vehicle spawns as long as the flight/drive takes about the same time.

Well said Kong, fwiw I have a new map of the same area as Baltic, ready to go. It is on the server, "Scandnvy". I have asked Hitech to not put it in rotation until the new terrset00 is implemented. It could replace the Baltic map, but I felt there were others that enjoyed the Baltic map as it is. If  you will send me a "PM" I have a few things I would like to discuss with you in regards to maps, objects and object properties.  :salute
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on March 18, 2025, 03:12:27 PM
Baltic is my all time favorite map. I will allow some small edits!
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 18, 2025, 05:44:26 PM
Baltic is my all time favorite map. I will allow some small edits!

Go take a look at scandnvy map offline, let me know what you think. BTW go bomb some bridges.  :D
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on March 18, 2025, 05:57:59 PM
Go take a look at scandnvy map offline, let me know what you think. BTW go bomb some bridges.  :D

Are you saying my wishes have come true?

Tell me more!!
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 18, 2025, 07:17:18 PM
Where bridges are located in most cases there will be anywhere from 4 to 7 bridges. Of these bridges, all but one can be destroyed. The have a hardness the same as a Hanger, with a down time of 10 minutes. Try base 70 on the map.  :rock
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on March 19, 2025, 03:26:48 PM
Hey way cool hope they get loaded in!
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: molybdenum on March 20, 2025, 06:23:47 PM

Seems to me that C-47s located to resupply strats is not any different than vehicle spawns as long as the flight/drive takes about the same time.

One of the newer maps permits C47 to launch from a flak base. You can drop a box of sups to the strat in less than a minute and up again if you ditch to rinse and repeat. Not a good thing.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Shuffler on March 21, 2025, 04:12:36 PM
I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS......

I'll instead just sit over here and drink my frozen margarita.    :cool:
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on March 21, 2025, 07:03:28 PM
Where bridges are located in most cases there will be anywhere from 4 to 7 bridges. Of these bridges, all but one can be destroyed. The have a hardness the same as a Hanger, with a down time of 10 minutes. Try base 70 on the map.  :rock

Was cool but anti-climactic lol. But only because there was no destroyed shape but the effect was cool to see the bridge missing.

Question… can any country destroy the bridge or are they owned by fields? I was an enemy rook plane at nit base 70.

Either way this is a nice low key upgrade that can change the strategy on some maps. Very cool Kenai!

Our cartographers are top shelf!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: icepac on March 23, 2025, 02:39:32 PM
Does this mean we get the ME109T?
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 23, 2025, 02:51:04 PM
 I make maps not airplanes  :D
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: fudgums on March 23, 2025, 03:14:07 PM
Airplanes are Jaeger1's job
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: toddbobe on March 26, 2025, 03:02:56 PM
Go take a look at scandnvy map offline, let me know what you think. BTW go bomb some bridges.  :D

Can these bridges be scuttled to slow an offensive?
Todd
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 26, 2025, 03:42:22 PM
White Castle hamburgers at refueling stations?
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Randy1 on March 26, 2025, 04:12:49 PM
The secret to good tank battles lies in the old crater map.  You could have very long shots or move in close.  The air guys hated the map because it was such a good tank battle no one flew planes.  I enjoy tank battles, but the skies were empty on thee crater map.

The strats.  Easly destroyed strats changes the balance between defense and offense play.  With guns down for a long time makes for guarding bases which means fewer offensive fights.  Same with long run times to rebuild starts and long downtime auto guns.  Still though you need a payoff for long bomber runs.  Tough balance job for sure.  During two countries aginst one nights, often the one country fighting two countries has their strats flattened while the  other two countries have 100% strats.

On 88s.  They can be the only way to push back runway vulchers.  Not sure about this but an 88 in town might be interesting.

This is not meant to be a complaint at all.  Just feedback on current map play.

The number of new maps is really encouraging. Thank you map makers.

Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on March 26, 2025, 05:41:49 PM
Can these bridges be scuttled to slow an offensive?
Todd

I wondered the same thing not sure why I didn’t try it. I will try later tonight.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 26, 2025, 06:03:11 PM
Can these bridges be scuttled to slow an offensive?
Todd

Yes the bridges can be destroyed, or at least all but one at a base. One bridge is indestructible, but it is randomly selected during Terrain creation. Bridges require the same amount of bombs as a Hanger (2713 lbs of explosives) their down time is 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 26, 2025, 06:08:40 PM
Randy1, you are absolutely correct about the old Tank Town. The new one just doesn't have the "draw" the original had. My "List of projects" has a new tank town on it patterned after the original. Hope to get to it this year. :rock
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Mano on March 26, 2025, 08:45:38 PM
Would be nice to have a smaller version of Trinity. Those spawn battles at V base 134 were an absolute hoot. You really had to climb some mountains if you wanted to bomb gv’s. Some how ManaWar was able to get his lancs over and down into the valley.

Sometimes there were as many as 200 gv’er there at one time. I remember Hooter landed 200 kills in a Panther.

<S>
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 26, 2025, 10:18:16 PM
Randy1, you are absolutely correct about the old Tank Town. The new one just doesn't have the "draw" the original had. My "List of projects" has a new tank town on it patterned after the original. Hope to get to it this year. :rock

2 weeks buddy,... no slacking

:)
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 27, 2025, 09:05:42 AM
2 weeks buddy,... no slacking

:)

 :rofl :rofl  :aok
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on March 31, 2025, 09:22:59 PM
What is the feeling of adding Flak Bases to the strats of these older maps??

I am trying to insure every base has at least one friendly spawn into it, Front line bases will have 2 spawns, 1 friendly and 1 enemy.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on March 31, 2025, 10:27:39 PM
What is the feeling of adding Flak Bases to the strats of these older maps??

I am trying to insure every base has at least one friendly spawn into it, Front line bases will have 2 spawns, 1 friendly and 1 enemy.

I don't have an opinion other than,... bless you for going the extra mile to update the game a bit. A true viking.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: RotBaron on April 01, 2025, 05:01:40 AM
Well said Kong, fwiw I have a new map of the same area as Baltic, ready to go. It is on the server, "Scandnvy". I have asked Hitech to not put it in rotation until the new terrset00 is implemented. It could replace the Baltic map, but I felt there were others that enjoyed the Baltic map as it is. If  you will send me a "PM" I have a few things I would like to discuss with you in regards to maps, objects and object properties.  :salute

I’d be rather happy never to login and see Baltic up and spend the next 10 mins figuring out how to create a sustained fight. 

It’s really an AH2 map, I could swear I can remember playing before on whatever my AH1 callsign was?

After Baltic, my least favorites are NDIsles (actually a toss up with Baltic dependent of certain factors) then Mindinao. Out of the many discussions about these three, only Higheye has mentioned how it’s one of his favorites, literally no one else re: these three. Flush them.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: RotBaron on April 01, 2025, 05:08:35 AM
What is the feeling of adding Flak Bases to the strats of these older maps??

I am trying to insure every base has at least one friendly spawn into it, Front line bases will have 2 spawns, 1 friendly and 1 enemy.

If they’re amongst the most disliked (we could have a poll taken) it’s lipstick on a pig. Since I doubt any maps are getting pulled, the lipstick is better than no change(s).
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: GOODBYE on April 01, 2025, 05:40:10 AM
Would be nice to have a smaller version of Trinity. Those spawn battles at V base 134 were an absolute hoot. You really had to climb some mountains if you wanted to bomb gv’s. Some how ManaWar was able to get his lancs over and down into the valley.

Sometimes there were as many as 200 gv’er there at one time. I remember Hooter landed 200 kills in a Panther.

<S>

I remember that GV spawn, easily had the most fun I’ve ever had in the game at that spawn both bombing gvs and getting killed 50 times trying to get off spawn into a tree
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: The Fugitive on April 01, 2025, 08:36:27 AM
I’d be rather happy never to login and see Baltic up and spend the next 10 mins figuring out how to create a sustained fight. 

It’s really an AH2 map, I could swear I can remember playing before on whatever my AH1 callsign was?

After Baltic, my least favorites are NDIsles (actually a toss up with Baltic dependent of certain factors) then Mindinao. Out of the many discussions about these three, only Higheye has mentioned how it’s one of his favorites, literally no one else re: these three. Flush them.

Id say those are my 3 favorite maps! Kenai (Jimmy) just rebuilt NDIsles with some of the changes he has mentioned here. Its a bit harder to reset now but it has action all over the place. Many time the center island becomes a great furball. The last I heard Kenai was working on a rebuild of the Baltic map. These smaller maps generate more fights, less places to hide, thats what makes them the best ones.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 01, 2025, 01:00:19 PM
Would be nice to have a smaller version of Trinity. Those spawn battles at V base 134 were an absolute hoot. You really had to climb some mountains if you wanted to bomb gv’s. Some how ManaWar was able to get his lancs over and down into the valley.

Sometimes there were as many as 200 gv’er there at one time. I remember Hooter landed 200 kills in a Panther.

<S>
I have been unable to locate a graphic/map  of Trinty.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Randy1 on April 01, 2025, 01:44:25 PM
What is the feeling of adding Flak Bases to the strats of these older maps??

I am trying to insure every base has at least one friendly spawn into it, Front line bases will have 2 spawns, 1 friendly and 1 enemy.

Strats maybe the great weakness in the three country system.  The maps that are setup so only one country can  within reason attack their adjacent countries strats makes two counties attacking a single country nearly unplayable. Not all maps are that way but a couple are.  Two countries attacking one countryy can be exciting unless the stratss are way out of balance.

Ack bases might help. 
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Lusche on April 01, 2025, 03:08:03 PM
I have been unable to locate a graphic/map  of Trinty.

(https://i.imgur.com/FlIW9Nk.jpeg)

Trinity was great in its original form, before it was shelved along the other large maps in late 2006 when the arenas were split.
When it came back a few years later (Titanic Tuesdays), Tank Town didn't work any more and the population generally had already been too low for the setup with those annoying 30k mountain ranges between the three countries

Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 01, 2025, 05:34:52 PM
Thank you Lusche, it's in my to do folder now. :aok
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on April 01, 2025, 06:16:35 PM
Does this include town bridges and if not can we make that a thing?
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: RotBaron on April 02, 2025, 10:51:47 AM
Id say those are my 3 favorite maps! Kenai (Jimmy) just rebuilt NDIsles with some of the changes he has mentioned here. Its a bit harder to reset now but it has action all over the place. Many time the center island becomes a great furball. The last I heard Kenai was working on a rebuild of the Baltic map. These smaller maps generate more fights, less places to hide, thats what makes them the best ones.

Someone should run a poll… I remember seeing a few a long time ago.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 02, 2025, 01:25:12 PM
Does this include town bridges and if not can we make that a thing?

You mean like destroying the bridges in town? If so, no. Town structures are off limits to map makers, same with base and strat structures. They have hard coding associate with them, as I understand it.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Shuffler on April 03, 2025, 11:26:25 AM
Knowing the crew around here... we would have a Hooters and a Harley dealership in every town otherwise.   :rofl
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: GOODBYE on April 04, 2025, 06:08:43 AM
I think having the river and destructible bridges on some of the bases is great. Makes the game a little more dynamic when you can deny certain approaches
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 06, 2025, 09:46:51 AM
Here is what I have done on Montis map so far.
(https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=406252.0;attach=38017)
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Randy1 on April 06, 2025, 10:51:38 AM
Knowing the crew around here... we would have a Hooters and a Harley dealership in every town otherwise.   :rofl

Hooters went tits up.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Animl-AW on April 06, 2025, 11:51:18 AM
I personally never rode my bike to hooters. Why be around something too young and ya can’t touch?

I’ll take a White Castle, for those drunk moments.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on April 06, 2025, 06:14:53 PM
You mean like destroying the bridges in town? If so, no. Town structures are off limits to map makers, same with base and strat structures. They have hard coding associate with them, as I understand it.

Well now you gotta get creative with towns lol. Can they be on an island away from the field?

Are the bridge objects only as long as the rivers they are over now or can they be combined to any length?
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: JimmyD3 on April 07, 2025, 12:33:00 PM
Well now you gotta get creative with towns lol. Can they be on an island away from the field?

Are the bridge objects only as long as the rivers they are over now or can they be combined to any length?

Well now I haven't thought of that before. :) I'll look into it,  that might be an added "feature" to a map.

Bridges can be combined into longer structures.  have completed a new bridge that is twice as long as the original. It takes some time and a good 3D graphics program, I use Ac3d which is what Hitech used in developing AH3.
Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Randy1 on April 09, 2025, 01:52:35 PM
Last night the Rooks owned all of tank island.  In the past the bish and knits have pulled the same hat trick.  This usually happens on day shift.

When this happens, it hurts map play by limiting GV play.  Add to that very long air routes to the other islands.  Not a bad map just has gotten out of balance a bit.

Trying to remember.  I was thinking the old version of this map had an extra VH base for each country on tank island. 

Anyway, if our map makers would consider this problem on the next revision of this map, GV'ers would appreciate that forr sure.

Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: popeye on April 09, 2025, 02:04:48 PM
Anyway, if our map makers would consider this problem on the next revision of this map, GV'ers would appreciate that forr sure.

I put a "tank town" on the center island of Crags that, as far as I know, has never been used.  Also, there is a tank town in the SE corner of Northco far away from airfields and bomb****s, that has never been used.  Guess it is just too hidden.

Not sure what makes a good design for a tank town, but would be happy to modify my maps to accommodate.

Title: Re: Updating Older Maps
Post by: Dadtallica on April 09, 2025, 03:04:02 PM
NDisles is a great OG map. It’s in my
Top three. There were some really good three country fights last night in the NW side.

My top three maps may be a bit cringey for some.