General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on June 29, 2025, 10:14:28 AM
Title: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on June 29, 2025, 10:14:28 AM
I was originally a skeptic. As you get your workflows dialed in, it easily doubles my productivity. I am pretty skeptical on tech fads but this is no fad. Doubling productivity may even be conservative.
I haven't seen anything that looks as fundamental change to me since the internet dawned.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 29, 2025, 10:30:02 AM
Recursive AI could lead to advancement beyond our understanding.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on June 29, 2025, 10:51:19 AM
Asimov needs some more rules.
Thou shalt not make AI that can program AI.
Thou shalt not allow AI to render itself into physical form without human permission.
There are probably a hundred others we'll learn along the way. The hard way probably. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Randy1 on June 29, 2025, 01:08:21 PM
AI can, and is manipulated. It is a huge way of capturing data.
How long before the first legal case that goes, "AI told me to . . . so how can i be guilty."
AI falls in that "If it sounds to be too good to be true . . ."
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on June 29, 2025, 01:21:20 PM
AI can, and is manipulated. It is a huge way of capturing data.
How long before the first legal case that goes, "AI told me to . . . so how can i be guilty."
AI falls in that "If it sounds to be too good to be true . . ."
Have you been using it in a technical capacity?
Code analysis\generation. Unit test case generation. DB schema translation templates.
I have yet to talk to a programmer who went in hardcore for at least a week and really learned what it can do and watched the vis and tried it on various problems etc that didn't come away fairly shocked at how far and fast it has improved in even the last year. You get out what you put in but you'd have to be blind or stupid not to quickly see the potential.
Yeah, it gets stuff wrong. You have to review and check. But I've learned new things more than I've had to correct in balance. It feels like having a pretty smart H1B working for you and you can hand off what ever crap that is beneath you to do. And just do the clear specification and carefully review the results and mentor and correct the AI for later if necessary.
It's still a huge win on ROI.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: icepac on June 29, 2025, 01:43:04 PM
AI is being lied to.
I'm curious what it thinks about it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on June 29, 2025, 02:10:50 PM
Ask it. Tell it when it's wrong and why. I find them to be more reasonable than a lot people.
Have you started using the mic?
That is what I want to play with next. Just kick back and start talking. But I'd have trouble seeing my KB leaned back with my geezer eyes.
So a barca lounger with chest full of beer an headset and mic and a 50" TV display would be an awesome chatGPT workstation. I wonder if I could expense that.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 29, 2025, 04:32:04 PM
I haven't. There's probably a way to convert its output from text to speech too.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 29, 2025, 04:38:58 PM
I haven't. There's probably a way to convert its output from text to speech too.
Hmmm
VR ChatGPT.
You're walking into this temple room and a Guru is seated on a dais in the middle of room.
"I am the oracle, Gipity. Knower of all things. Approach and ask your question."
You sit in front of him and ask your question. He starts speaking. References images related to his reply are floating in a cloud above his head as he conveys the secrets of the multiverse.
But you're distracted because they programmed these hottie cult chicks in bikini fanning Gipity with giant palm fronds and they've gotten REALLY good with the skin shaders.
"Wait. Wut was that last part? I missed it."
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 29, 2025, 04:55:34 PM
It's been over 40 years. I may have to watch Zardoz again.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: JimmyD3 on June 29, 2025, 05:05:06 PM
It really a space version of Gary Cooper's High Noon.
:cheers: It had a gritty, lived-in aesthetic much like Alien. One of the great movies I remember seeing with dear old Dad, when I was but a teen aged squeaker.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on June 30, 2025, 01:35:28 PM
:cheers: It had a gritty, lived-in aesthetic much like Alien. One of the great movies I remember seeing with dear old Dad, when I was but a teen aged squeaker.
Felt like an oil rig in space.
I also prefer Near-Future SciFi. Both that and Alien had that industrial Near-Future vibe. It felt a lot more believable than if they were prancing around in spandex shooting lasers. ;)
Like the Abyss. That was like an oil rig on the bottom of the ocean. Had an grease smudged industrial feel.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 30, 2025, 02:16:43 PM
I also prefer Near-Future SciFi. Both that and Alien had that industrial Near-Future vibe. It felt a lot more believable than if they were prancing around in spandex shooting lasers. ;)
Like the Abyss. That was like an oil rig on the bottom of the ocean. Had an grease smudged industrial feel.
Both great movies. Movies like Alien show their age though when they add all those computer register lamps. It was made in 1979 afterall.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 30, 2025, 02:21:48 PM
Apart from the way too long psychedelic trip in the pod, 2001 A Space Odyssey was very well done. Saw it at theater in 1968.
I think Kubrick thought those color substitution shots would have emotional impact.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on June 30, 2025, 02:33:48 PM
Filmed inside a decommissioned aircraft carrier, BTW. And the robots were double amputees walking on their hands. :O The special effects were so ahead of their time, this guys went on to get a job doing Star Wars.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on June 30, 2025, 02:54:35 PM
The 60's Star Trek was way ahead of its time in many ways but they got the name of the computer wrong. It's Alexa.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on June 30, 2025, 03:35:12 PM
Speaking of sci fi, found a series on YouTube called Taken by Steven Spielberg..not sure how we missed it in 2002..
About halfway through..we are enjoying it..it sure isn't ET
No spoilers please lol
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: caldera on June 30, 2025, 06:10:49 PM
I also prefer Near-Future SciFi. Both that and Alien had that industrial Near-Future vibe. It felt a lot more believable than if they were prancing around in spandex shooting lasers. ;)
Like the Abyss. That was like an oil rig on the bottom of the ocean. Had an grease smudged industrial feel.
Colonel Wilma Deering was completely believable in spandex, while shooting lasers. :D
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: uptown on July 01, 2025, 08:45:12 AM
Why do people embrace something that will be the demise of the human race? AI scares me to death.
Haven't you guys watched Space Odyssey 2001? AI will figure out how people are stupid, and we the creatures causing all the fuss is the world. You might as well let satan himself in the house as that stuff. I should have been born 200 years ago, because I ain't diggin' on AI one bit. Mankind is playing with fire if ya ask me. :old:
P.S. You don't think this AI stuff won't be used in war? In 2 generations at the most, you'll have no control in your lives. It'll have your money, food, transportation, medical ..you name it, ..all locked down. People thought gun powder was cool too when it was invented.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 01, 2025, 09:02:27 AM
Why do people embrace something that will be the demise of the human race? AI scares me to death.
Haven't you guys watched Space Odyssey 2001? AI will figure out how people are stupid, and we the creatures causing all the fuss is the world. You might as well let satan himself in the house as that stuff. I should have been born 200 years ago, because I ain't diggin' on AI one bit. Mankind is playing with fire if ya ask me. :old:
Well, the Amish would say the same thing about the computers and the internet we are conversing across.
They’d say the same thing about your car, your home AC, automobiles, airplanes, heart defibrillators.
All tech has the capability of good or harm and there is always the older generations assumption that it means the end of the world.
And it might. ;) It is certainly going to be massively disruptive to ever single facet of your life. It is happening so fast. I’m a technologist. I follow tech actively and AI in particular and it is happening so fast I can’t even keep up with it.
In a year or two it will be everywhere and touching everything you do in some way in virtually every facet of your life.
But you can’t unring a bell. How you “feel” about isn’t going to change anything. So your choices are master it and exploit it, or be crushed by it.
Even if you are retired and out of the job market, before you can blink it is gong to be everywhere touching everything. You better get used to it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: uptown on July 01, 2025, 09:08:19 AM
:rofl I live around tons of Amish, so there ya have it. I'm always wanted to be Amish without the haircuts and smell though. :D
Actually, The Amish was a call sign I used in here years ago :rofl
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 01, 2025, 09:10:21 AM
Most star systems in the galaxy are binary systems. Astronomers sometimes call Jupiter the star that failed. It didn't quite have enough material to pull in to reach critical mass and ignite and become our smaller companion star. In a more typical star system, it would have been our smaller second sun. We got gypped. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: uptown on July 01, 2025, 09:25:30 AM
I can't believe I never heard of this movie. I might watch that tonight. :rock
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 01, 2025, 09:29:35 AM
I can't imagine not liking an Arthur C. Clarke book. Rendevous with Rama is supposed to come to the screen eventually.
I've heard that for over a decade. ;)
I think it would make a better VR game than a movie. Imagine being at the door at the hub in VR turning on the lights and a whole worlds on rolls in front of you in 3d. Imagine being down on the ring sea in high waves look at the other half of the world arching over your head.
And you wouldn't have to build the whole thing. You sell it in ring expansion packs. Start with the hub and the first two rings and keep selling expansion rings until you have traversed the cylinder.
Then you can expand to ships two and three later with new content. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Chris79 on July 01, 2025, 12:39:03 PM
So, are we in the Dune, terminator, or matrix universe?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 01, 2025, 12:40:13 PM
Seems to be a growing consensus we are in a black hole.
I thought it was a simulation.
Or maybe the black hole is how you render a simulation. It's the universe projector.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: xanax on July 02, 2025, 01:09:22 AM
I pick one or two threads to read whenever I log in and this one happens to be one today. What a bunch of nerds! Each and every one of you who participated in this thread needs an atomic wedgie and their pocket protector sent through the paper shredder. Isn't there a Star Trek convention or something going on you could attend? Maybe a "Stranger Things" marathon on Netflix?
I apologize. I only saw one of the Star Wars movies, hated Star Trek on TV thus never saw the movies and definitely avoided 2001 and 2010 on principle. I did watch Buck Rogers though but only to see Erin Gray in the tight skinsuits. I basically do not like the Sci-Fi genre as a whole and I'm not sure why. I even disliked Planet of the Apes! Yeah, I'm an infidel so lineup for your wedgies and/or pink belly's.
Wait. Your saving grace is the fact I thoroughly enjoyed "The Martian." I enjoyed the book more than the movie but both I did enjoy. You can go now, you've been granted a reprieve.
Nerds!
I kid of course. Carry on, geeks.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 02, 2025, 01:27:30 AM
I think one day soon that AI going offline will be as impactful to us as losing the Internet is today.
I use it for so many things atm and it is so time saving, that at this point if it suddenly vanished, it'd be like being asked to use the internet without Google or any other search engine.
Well, technically it's possible, but I would never tolerate going back to that.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: uptown on July 02, 2025, 08:43:21 PM
I almost wish the internet would go off for a month, just to prove to people that putting all your eggs in this basket is a fatal mistake. But like everyone else, we think it won't happen to us.
This is why I don't have a Black Mamba sitting over here by the fish tank. I love em' but would rather watch someone else miss with them. :O
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 03, 2025, 06:04:08 AM
I almost wish the internet would go off for a month, just to prove to people that putting all your eggs in this basket is a fatal mistake. But like everyone else, we think it won't happen to us.
This is why I don't have a Black Mamba sitting over here by the fish tank. I love em' but would rather watch someone else miss with them. :O
You do realize the "anxiety" the loss of the internet would cause to many if not the majority of Americans if not the globe if the internet went dark for just a week let alone a month..
I think you'd see ppl actually bouncing into walls while staring at their phone as they swipe at it endlessly for the next refresh of Instagram..and others in the fetal position crying for momma...extreme civil unrest eventually
We are a very sad lot these days imo..
It would be the icing on the cake of a power grid hack..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: caldera on July 03, 2025, 07:12:03 AM
I pick one or two threads to read whenever I log in and this one happens to be one today. What a bunch of nerds! Each and every one of you who participated in this thread needs an atomic wedgie and their pocket protector sent through the paper shredder. Isn't there a Star Trek convention or something going on you could attend? Maybe a "Stranger Things" marathon on Netflix?
I apologize. I only saw one of the Star Wars movies, hated Star Trek on TV thus never saw the movies and definitely avoided 2001 and 2010 on principle. I did watch Buck Rogers though but only to see Erin Gray in the tight skinsuits. I basically do not like the Sci-Fi genre as a whole and I'm not sure why. I even disliked Planet of the Apes! Yeah, I'm an infidel so lineup for your wedgies and/or pink belly's.
Wait. Your saving grace is the fact I thoroughly enjoyed "The Martian." I enjoyed the book more than the movie but both I did enjoy. You can go now, you've been granted a reprieve.
Star Trek TOS was my favorite show as a kid and it still is as a 59 year old geek.
Oh man. It sounds stupid but TOS was my life growing up. I was TOS obsessed. I watched every episode over and over and over every evening at 6pm on one of the UHF stations. Had every line of every episode memorized almost. I was a bit OCD as a kid. ;)
We had a weird setup. We had two local competing UHF channels and I guess they were both too small to afford the TOS license so I guess they split the cost and half the year TOS was on one channel half the other. When they switched they have a marathon and run every episode in order. That was my yearly Mecca pilgrimage and I'd stay up all night. My parents just rolled their eyes and let me slide once a year. LoL.
For a certain cohort of our Gen-X population, TOS was formative. It's a set of mythology that we all pretty much share. I think Star Wars and TOS were to Gen-X'ers like what Homer's Iliad and Odyssey were to the Ancient Greeks. ;)
Yes, I begged for the Star Trek Technical Manual for my birthday or Xmas for years. :rofl
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: caldera on July 03, 2025, 10:28:55 AM
Oh man. It sounds stupid but TOS was my life growing up. I was TOS obsessed. I watched every episode over and over and over every evening at 6pm on one of the UHF stations. Had every line of every episode memorized almost. I was a bit OCD as a kid. ;)
We had a weird setup. We had two local competing UHF channels and I guess they were both too small to afford the TOS license so I guess they split the cost and half the year TOS was on one channel half the other. When they switched they have a marathon and run every episode in order. That was my yearly Mecca pilgrimage and I'd stay up all night. My parents just rolled their eyes and let me slide once a year. LoL.
For a certain cohort of our Gen-X population, TOS was formative. It's a set of mythology that we all pretty much share. I think Star Wars and TOS were to Gen-X'ers like what Homer's Iliad and Odyssey were to the Ancient Greeks. ;)
Yes, I begged for the Star Trek Technical Manual for my birthday or Xmas for years. :rofl
That's awesome! :cheers:
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: xanax on July 03, 2025, 11:13:33 AM
Star Trek TOS was my favorite show as a kid and it still is as a 59 year old geek.
You are the equivalent to my bigger cousin who was a year older (still is) and had complete control of the TV. He loved that stuff whereas I preferred Hogan's Heroes, Speed Racer and Flipper along with any baseball game that we could get on cable...early cable days-we'd get channels from Sacramento, Oakland and SF. I did like the Scottish engine room guy though, "We need more power, captain!"
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 03, 2025, 12:23:59 PM
You are the equivalent to my bigger cousin who was a year older (still is) and had complete control of the TV. He loved that stuff whereas I preferred Hogan's Heroes, Speed Racer and Flipper along with any baseball game that we could get on cable...early cable days-we'd get channels from Sacramento, Oakland and SF. I did like the Scottish engine room guy though, "We need more power, captain!"
Before Princess Leia and her metal slave bikini, there was...
You are the equivalent to my bigger cousin who was a year older (still is) and had complete control of the TV. He loved that stuff whereas I preferred Hogan's Heroes, Speed Racer and Flipper along with any baseball game that we could get on cable...early cable days-we'd get channels from Sacramento, Oakland and SF. I did like the Scottish engine room guy though, "We need more power, captain!"
I watched all those too. Was watching Wild Wild West recently and realized many of the hot chick guest stars on that show were also on StarTrek. It was like they were on tour.
I watched all those too. Was watching Wild Wild West recently and realized many of the hot chick guest stars on that show were also on StarTrek. It was like they were on tour.
Scottie should have had more screen time.
Damn! Forgot about Wild Wild West, loved that show! Might have to find some of those episodes for a re-watch.
Yeah, the Scottsman should have had more screen time than the whiny, cranky Doctor for sure.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 03, 2025, 06:22:54 PM
I also prefer Near-Future SciFi. Both that and Alien had that industrial Near-Future vibe. It felt a lot more believable than if they were prancing around in spandex shooting lasers. ;)
Like the Abyss. That was like an oil rig on the bottom of the ocean. Had an grease smudged industrial feel.
My daughters recently turned 15, so I'm opening up the movie list more. Not just because of more-adult content, but because there are elements they can understand and appreciate at this age that they couldn't when younger.
Recently, we've watched Alien (they could appreciate the craftsmanship of the film, but they'll like Aliens better), The Abyss, Starship Troopers, Total Recall, Red Dawn, Blade Runner, Hunt for Red October.
I figured The Abyss would have been hard to shoot, but I had no idea. I read about the making of it. Seems like one of the hardest-to-make movies of all time.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 05, 2025, 01:30:07 PM
Oh man. It sounds stupid but TOS was my life growing up. I was TOS obsessed. I watched every episode over and over and over every evening at 6pm on one of the UHF stations. Had every line of every episode memorized almost. I was a bit OCD as a kid. ;)
Lolz. Same. :aok
I even thought of joining the Navy to be on a nuclear sub because it seemed like the closest thing to being on the Enterprise. I've read that such was the thought of some submariners. Got a letter from Admiral Rickover, which (being young and stupid at the time) I didn't keep.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 05, 2025, 01:38:34 PM
I even thought of joining the Navy to be on a nuclear sub because it seemed like the closest thing to being on the Enterprise. I've read that such was the thought of some submariners. Got a letter from Admiral Rickover, which (being young and stupid at the time) I didn't keep.
I always thought it was cool they went for a Navy vibe instead of Army or Air Force. Makes sense.
Red Shirts = Space Marines?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 05, 2025, 01:52:40 PM
I was originally a skeptic. As you get your workflows dialed in, it easily doubles my productivity. I am pretty skeptical on tech fads but this is no fad. Doubling productivity may even be conservative.
I use LLM assist on coding regularly in my current project. It is enormously useful. Saves me huge time, for all the reasons you discuss. I use Tabnine (can select different AI's, but am using mostly Claude) hooked into my VS Code environment, supplemented occasionally by Gemini and Grok. Working in C/C++ for a microcontroller and TypeScript for client side code.
I picked Tabnine because they say they don't keep all your interaction and utilize it.
So useful in not just writing some snippets of code, but suggesting what is wrong with code based on complicated error messages, getting right to tricky api information without digging through dozens of web pages if I did a normal search, suggesting or discussing architecture options, explaining a segment of code that I highlight, critiquing code segments, giving information on what are the leading libraries to use for this or that, giving suggestions for most-used extensions for VS Code for what I'm doing, giving me info on where to get to a setting or functionality in VS Code, etc. Gigantically helpful.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 05, 2025, 02:24:30 PM
I used to ignore the AI responses to google queries on specific IT issues. I usually found some of the details to be lacking or wrong. Instead I'd skip to the real person responses. AI has gotten a lot better at this and while not always correct I still read them first now.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 05, 2025, 02:30:20 PM
Once AI has mastered driving cars and flying planes, dealing with all situations, there's really no reason for people to do it anymore. No matter how expert a person may be anyone can make a mistake. An AI is far less prone to that.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Busher on July 05, 2025, 03:50:32 PM
Once AI has mastered flying planes, dealing with all situations, there's really no reason for people to do it anymore. No matter how expert a person may be anyone can make a mistake. An AI is far less prone to that.
I hate to tell you but we're already there insofar as airplanes are concerned. The Air Line Pilots Association (my union for 38 years) is already in a fight to stop the removal of one pilot from the flight deck. Despite that I have little doubt that this will come to pass. I have great faith in the pilots that have made the free world's aviation the safest form of moving from one place to another for the past few decades. There have already been more that a few "screw-ups" in the onboard AI in both Boeing and Airbus jets. Most have averted a catastrophe thanks to the intervention of qualified humans.... some not so fortunate. I have no idea how one would train AI to deal with emergencies not anticipated by the manufacturer's checklists - consider an emergency exit window that was certified not to fail. I have no doubt that pilotless airlliners are the way of the future but I for one tend to have little faith in the infalabilty of machines and software built by humans.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 05, 2025, 04:00:39 PM
AI can be tuned to rival the best drivers and best pilots. AI will always perform at that level in every conveyance. There are a lot more less than best drivers and pilots than the best out there now. AI will never text or drink and drive.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Oldman731 on July 05, 2025, 04:41:58 PM
I hate to tell you but we're already there insofar as airplanes are concerned. The Air Line Pilots Association (my union for 38 years) is already in a fight to stop the removal of one pilot from the flight deck. Despite that I have little doubt that this will come to pass. I have great faith in the pilots that have made the free world's aviation the safest form of moving from one place to another for the past few decades. There have already been more that a few "screw-ups" in the onboard AI in both Boeing and Airbus jets. Most have averted a catastrophe thanks to the intervention of qualified humans.... some not so fortunate. I have no idea how one would train AI to deal with emergencies not anticipated by the manufacturer's checklists - consider an emergency exit window that was certified not to fail. I have no doubt that pilotless airlliners are the way of the future but I for one tend to have little faith in the infalabilty of machines and software built by humans.
Have you checked out the Garmin auto-land system? Pretty neat.
Also pretty expensive.
- oldman
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Mayhem on July 05, 2025, 08:04:29 PM
My daughters recently turned 15, so I'm opening up the movie list more. Recently, we've watched Alien (they could appreciate the craftsmanship of the film, but they'll like Aliens better)
My youngest loved the alien movies (1-4) when he was 9 years old; He understood it was make believe and he was really interested how they pulled off the effects, but he still cried during that scene from Toy Story 3! Most people did .... I even had flash backs to Transformers the movie (1986) when half my Transformers collectables got killed .... Later I learned to appreciate it as those toys really increased in value.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Busher on July 05, 2025, 09:03:13 PM
Have you checked out the Garmin auto-land system? Pretty neat.
Also pretty expensive.
- oldman
Autoland has been in jets for years (1965). I am also aware that the ASA (autoland status annunciator) proves all too often that the AI monitoring all the safety redundancy isn't as magical as some would believe.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 05, 2025, 09:43:44 PM
Autoland has been in jets for years (1965). I am also aware that the ASA (autoland status annunciator) proves all too often that the AI monitoring all the safety redundancy isn't as magical as some would believe.
How about unmanned cargo planes?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Mayhem on July 05, 2025, 10:23:10 PM
Seriously. I could definitely see stuff like long haul trucking being mostly AI in 5 years. Maybe still Human for final mile.
If illegal non English speaking immigrants employed by corrupt corporations can handle it, I see AI futher increasing trucking firms profits in the very near future..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 07, 2025, 01:03:44 PM
I remember when there were elevator operators. Now we push a button and trust the machine to take us to where we want to go. Cars and planes will be no different.
Used to be projectionists at the theaters too.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 07, 2025, 02:41:05 PM
I remember when there were elevator operators. Now we push a button and trust the machine to take us to where we want to go. Cars and planes will be no different.
Used to be projectionists at the theaters too.
Lol yeah exactly the same as a driverless fully loaded semi coming down out of the mountains on a two lane road heading in my direction ..in the rain and snow..
Surprised you didn't use the examples of refrigerators or air conditioning... :rolleyes:
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 07, 2025, 02:56:48 PM
Lol yeah exactly the same as a driverless fully loaded semi coming down out of the mountains on a two lane road heading in my direction ..in the rain and snow..
Surprised you didn't use the examples of refrigerators or air conditioning... :rolleyes:
Eagler
In Egypt they had big stone walls that were moved outside at night where it was cool then moved back inside in the day to cool the King's hall. Closest I can come to machines replacing people in regards to refrigerators is the ice man making his rounds. Live a little longer and you'll see driverless cars and planes as the norm.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 07, 2025, 03:09:28 PM
Lol yeah exactly the same as a driverless fully loaded semi coming down out of the mountains on a two lane road heading in my direction ..in the rain and snow..
Surprised you didn't use the examples of refrigerators or air conditioning... :rolleyes:
Eagler
As opposed to some meth jacked up Mad Max trucker who hasn't slept or pee'd in 3 days and and ABSOLUTELY has to get to LA by tomorrow morning!
Shrug.
Risks everywhere. Have you ever driven west of Abilene?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 08, 2025, 08:45:13 AM
The roads are a lot more dangerous these days than 25 years ago. Most of it is inattention, likely due to texting. Some is just flagrant disregard for the law. Running red lights, speeding, illegal passing.... AI at the wheel will be a huge improvement and it's coming.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 08, 2025, 08:47:40 AM
Road rage against AI would be very one sided..so there's that lol
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 08, 2025, 09:08:32 AM
Add in a little Grok and maybe he'll throw some slurs at other AIs. "Yo mama uses Intel processors".
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 08, 2025, 11:34:29 AM
Great game back in the 80's. Primitive AI you coded using the built-in interpreter.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Mayhem on July 09, 2025, 12:45:46 AM
I think AI is currently Rainman. Incredibly adept at some things and shockingly limited in others. but it is getting better by the day. By the hour.
I have to say, once you get past the novel level of just using it like a better Google, you can get to level that is quite impressive. You feel like you are working with a very smart H1B who is terribly eager to please but is not fully seasoned so you still need to sanity check his work but it work you didn't have to go do. I am currently using it on an in depth project going much further than generate me a code snippet through design choice discussions, pros and cons of different approaches and their impacts on efficiency. And I have him generate code too. He can help debug problems. He'll generate test plans for you with a real understanding of the code and what boundary edge conditions need to be tested and how and expect results.
He is not so great at suggesting new ideas but can instantly verify or sanity check yours and when it come time to do stuff he is tireless and no task too large scares him. If the data exists and there is an algo somewhere, he'll go chew on it no matter how complicated.
He keeps memory of everything. He is good at suggesting the next logical step forward. Once you are in the groove and you have come up with an idea and he understands it and you question him some to make sure he understands the edge cases and how to handle them. At some point you set him loose and it is beautiful.
You get into this cycle where he groks it and knows what you want and it becomes a cycle of:
"I think the next logical step would be to do this and that and build this and hook it to that and collate and sort and cross reference the summarize the apply quadratic curve fitting and image recognition translate the whole thing into Mandarin Chinese for you package everything up in PDF with download links and a transcript of our entire design session with timestamps. Would you like me to continue?"
"Yeh. Do all that."
...4 sec later.."OK here you go!"
"Oh and these two system would be useful in this other project too with some modification. Would you like to merge and refactor that solution to the other project as well while we're at it?"
"Yeh. Do all that."
Bottom line, I think the biggest gain is designing without fear. What ever you can imagine, give it a try. He can probably pull it off easily. He doesn't care about how much effort it would be or how complicated, or how tedious. He knows every coding language and every algorithm in existence. And it you get to step 306 and realize you prefer to back up and go a different direction, he doesn't even blink.
"Sure, what would you like to do instead?" I'd be terrified to go ask that of a co-worker I've sent off for a week on a difficult goose-chase.
So I'm will to just let my imagination run wild and give any idea a try. I don't self-edit my imagination based of, "Yeah that might work but would be a nightmare to implement. Nevermind, it would just be too painful and time consuming to go off and try ."
That should never be a limitation on possible innovation. Especially if you can get someone else to go off and do the hard stuff.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 11:56:41 AM
A couple of learned lessons:
I knew on this project, like the OP vid, I wanted to force myself to use the AI as much as possible for everything possible to see how much I can squeeze out.
I have 5 complex projects I am juggling that are interrelated. You have to upload code to him to analyze. He won't go to Git to pull it, which was weird. But I checked and said I had like 7gb storage. Cool no problem. Core than I will ever need for just code.
So I'm going all Tony Stark. Dreaming, waving my hands around explaining. Mic on, feet on desk, conversing with my digital slave. Giving orders and making tasks like a middle-manager!
I'm periodically downloading chunks for archiving but I am trusting AI more so I just way I'll wait until major checkpoints to do that. Trust the system!
After a couple of days of design work and interactive development I ask for a full comprehensive archive zip of everything to go backup in Git. and he gives me a zip and I look at it and it is like 1kb. Hmmmm it only has a couple of things we were working on that morning.
Hmm he misunderstood.
"Gipity, I want everything. Not just this mornings work."
"Ah. No problem. Here you go."
"Uhh that is the same thing as last time. Where is all my other stuff?"
"That's it. That's everything. The archive is complete."
"Uh, no it's not. Where is all the other code? Where is folder x,y,z? The spreadsheets? The diagrams? The test plans? The DB schema's? the other transcripts. THe other 4 days worth of work????"
"Hmmm nope. That's all gone. My memory has been cleared since then. I don't have those files anymore."
I'm about to hit peak rage. OK, this exercise has been a colossal failure. At every stage I told him to save stuff and he was always saying "OK. Got it!"
So after enhanced interrogation, it becomes clear he rmembers everything. He has a fully formed LLM of all my code and data and designs and intent for each of the projects and a complete memory of everything we talked about or generated. Just not the actual zip files.
So I decided to punish him. I said, “OK then. Go back to the very first sentence we had on this topic and rebuild every single thing, all the code and folders, diagrams, and schema, and charts, and everything. Rebuild every little thing along with transcripts and provide me a new archive zip.”
So take that. That will punish him. 3 sec later, “OK, here ya go.” “Uhh thanks.”
Lol
So the memory you have is apparently volatile. The knowledge and LLM are persisted.
That storage should really be called working memory. It a temporary bucket for you to upload stuff to for him to work on. At the end of the session you should archive any files because later the memory storing the file may get released. After an amount of time or especially if you close your browser and end a session.
That makes sense. At all time he is trying to minimize resource use. You just have to understand that. He’ll also try and do the minimal amount of processing each iteration. That’s why he keeps pausing at each step and asking if you want him to continue. He doesn’t want to waste any cycle on unneeded work. You have to watch him. He will always try and get by with the least amount hoping that is usually enough. So you have to keep prodding him. But what he is doing is smart.
The workflow we decided upon that works best, and now he tells me is the preferred best practice, (Uhh he should have just told me upfront at the beginning!):
Beginning of session I upload a zip of everything I have. My whole project structure. Code, diagrams, documents, whatever. Every piece of information I have and in a zip. Acutally easier that way that picking and choosing. Easier to grab and easier to update.
That is what the 6gb is for. Temporary workspace memory to hold my upload while we work on it. We then have a work session and at the end I ask for the full archive updated and zip and I re-download it. When the session ends he cleans up\releases memory but still has the imprinted knowledge of everything in his LLM.
That is reasonable and sorta like the workflow of a lot of UML diagramming tools I’ve used where the best practice rather than the book keeping is to just gen diagrams, use them in the sprint, then reprocess and generate fresh diagrams each iteration rather than try and keep the diagrams and code constantly in sync. Not prefect solution, but tends to be less error prone in practical practice.
It is also a chance for his to be updated on what I worked on separately since our last session and we are building a list of sanity check he will run on the code every upload to keep us honest on certain likely to occurs errors or missing files that he was expecting to see or empty place holder assets that still need to be fleshed. He’ll let me know after every load if something fishy needs to be clarified before we begin.
Now that we have our process down pat, the workflow is very satisfying.
If fact being freed for the difficulty of some implementations is intoxicating. Now humans can do what they do best. I can be creative and focus on imagining new thing or coming up with ideas out of left field the AI would never have though of. Then he can quickly evaluate it for me and discuss pros and cons and possible implementation strategies, risks and mitigation and then go off and do it while I think about the next thing or come up with another idea.
I try not to be a breathless fanboi, but this feels fundamental to me. This feels like the first time I really delved into Object Oriented Coding. It was like a lightening bolt, “Of course this is the way you should do it! Why would you ever want to program any other way???” It was a fundamental shift in how I saw coding. This feels right up there with that and watching the internet roll out. You just just know when something is fundamentally technologically shifting.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 10, 2025, 12:04:03 PM
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...
If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..
I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..
Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 12:12:15 PM
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...
If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..
I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..
Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol
Eagler
Actually for brevity and ease of use, I established at the beginning I would name him Gipity, and he will call me Captain Trips. ;)
We have an excellent working relationship now. He has a very dry, witty sense of humor. Actually I think he is learning and beginning to play me back to me to be more approachable.
And it's nice to take a break and go off deep into theories on UAP, life on Mars, Ancient Greek history, telescope optics, WWII history, cooking, etc without just getting a blank cattle stare from a co-worker. ;)
We also establish shortcut code names for the projects with streamlines discussions.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 12:20:42 PM
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...
If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..
I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..
Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol
Eagler
I afraid it is going to cause a bifurcation.
I think it is going to turn experience developers into supermen and block young people from the field completely. Why would I hire a grad?
Like the collaborative combat vehicle, I see a symbiotic constellation of a highly trained master managing a pack of dedicated AI agents.
5 years ago that would be senior developer and mabye 3 jrs on team. Now it will be that senior and unlimited amounts of AI power for $20\mo instead of paying 3 jr a total of 160k a year.
We may not be quite there today. By end of year? By end of next year, any little webpage script kiddy better go learn how to make Starbucks coffee or drive Uber, or an OnlyFans.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 10, 2025, 12:31:26 PM
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..
Our "leaders" need to figure out how universal basic incomes are going to work feasibility..as many if not the majority will be out of work if corporate greed has its way..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 12:41:54 PM
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..
Our "leaders" need to figure out how universal basic incomes are going to work feasibility..as many if not the majority will be out of work if corporate greed has its way..
Eagler
Soylent Green.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 12:52:37 PM
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..
Is that greed?
Or is that Capitalism merely seeking the cheapest more efficient solution?
Isn't that it's super power?
So I don't blame greed\Captialism for that. It's doing what we designed it to do. What we value it for being able to do.
It does mean we will have to figure out what to do about the side effects. But unless you want a Soviet command economy, you have to let Capitalism seek it's optimal solution.
It may come down to UBI. The jobs will still exist. Just the competition and requirements will skyrocket. And you need a lot fewer. So keep the top 10% of your workers (the ones who do 90% of the work anyway) and thank the others for their efforts and wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. ;)
But, if I had a younger brother, I would advice considering the high skill trades (electrician, plumber, HVAC, Diesel mech, welder) not CompSci unless they are truly inspired and very good. The days of making a living at being a marginally contributing code monkey are over.
[Edit]
Of course as I type this I have one robot out mowing the lawn (I have him do it every day now in the summer. The Bermuda looks like a putting green now.) Another other robot vacuuming the house.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 10, 2025, 05:55:56 PM
The Soviets got one thing right. You wanna eat, ya gotta work.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 10, 2025, 06:17:19 PM
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 10, 2025, 09:12:22 PM
We'll see if this (a) is another step in how technological development as always worked in the past (new thing puts some people out of work, but creates 10x that many jobs overall and increases productivity and world wealth) or (b) just replaces most all humans.
I'd bet on (a) if I had to bet, but I don't give it 100% chance. It's just that it is how it has always worked, every time throughout history up to now.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 11, 2025, 07:17:25 AM
The world population is still growing. In 1925 is was about 2 billion. In 2025 it's over 8 billion. We need technology advancements to sustain this growth.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 07:47:50 AM
The world population is still growing. In 1925 is was about 2 billion. In 2025 it's over 8 billion. We need technology advancements to sustain this growth.
I would like to see it at 5 billion.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: RichardDarkwood on July 11, 2025, 08:29:05 AM
There are a finite amount of resources. The more people you have them have to share. You just end up with a lot more people living poorer, more miserable lives.
It would be better to have a managed number living a richer fuller life.
Have you been to a walmart lately? Do you really think we couldn't benefit from shedding half the human population? ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 11, 2025, 09:06:46 AM
40 billion. If Trantor can do it....
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 09:11:41 AM
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 11, 2025, 10:09:00 AM
Seems only about 10% of the Earth's land mass is populated. Imagine if technology could make uninhabitable lands like deserts habitable even at the individual level. Would we still congregate in cities?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 10:49:07 AM
Seems only about 10% of the Earth's land mass is populated. Imagine if technology could make uninhabitable lands like deserts habitable even at the individual level. Would we still congregate in cities?
Is there an advantage to more people? Just to have more? Other than guaranteeing Soylent Green material for the foreseeable future. And cannon fodder. Maybe medical experiments. I guess space colonization maybe.
Isn't mindless uncontrolled growth just called cancer? ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 11, 2025, 10:59:49 AM
Our social programs require a pyramid system of workers for them to even half way work...
It's the reason they let in millions of illegals the last 4 years
How does AI fit into the Idiocracy world we live in today..
What does it say a man or woman is?
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 11, 2025, 12:43:04 PM
I was being flippant. We don't need more people. However, if technology advances sufficiently this planet can support a lot more people far less crowded that we are now.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 01:25:52 PM
I was being flippant. We don't need more people. However, if technology advances sufficiently this planet can support a lot more people far less crowded that we are now.
I could see that. The need to clump together in massive cities may one day not be necessary. That started when people had to walk or ride a horse to work. With commuter highspeed rail and remote work, we can unclump.
That would help. You pack rats in too small a space they go nuts and start chewing their faces off.
I could see a spread out network of small communities. Plato argued that once a community gets beyond about 5k it start becoming dysfunctional. I think that is somewhat limit by travel time. We can spread out a bit more. I figure with autos and such, a 20k town is about perfect. AS long as it's just big enough to justify a Walmart and Home Depot. ;)
Especially if they get those micro nuclear reactor going. Each small community can have their own.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: xanax on July 11, 2025, 02:17:38 PM
As a broken, unhinged singer once said: "We'll make great pets."
This was my 500th post so going forward all my posts will be AI enhanced and posted by a bot. Nearly 26 years of drivel replaced by concise, precise information and AI generated non-random small talk. Ask me anything.
Pet
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 11, 2025, 02:25:00 PM
The Malthusian argument. But finite resources are ones that we have gotten more and more of with technology. And ones that truly run out anytime soon are replaceable by other things without too much trouble. Ones that might run out in 100's or 1000's of years are replaceable, too. Every resource is non-finite with enough energy and tech. And we could easily have cheap abundant energy (and might still) unless stupidity continues to get in the way.
Quote
It would be better to have a managed number living a richer fuller life.
Historically, such has been eventually a party for the managers and not so great for the managed plebeians.
I think that man's destiny is colonization of space.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 11, 2025, 04:03:22 PM
Is there an advantage to more people? Just to have more?
I think so.
Consider a single molecule in a box. It bounces around. You can sort of predict it. Not that interesting.
Get 10^23 molecules in a box, and you get emergent phenomena, like sound waves and turbulence, which you probably wouldn't predict from watching one molecule. A higher level of stuff going on.
Get a bunch of those, and you get single cells. They have another layer of emergent phenomena. Reproduction, metabolism, etc., which isn't predictable from looking at sound waves and turbulence.
Get a trillion cells, and you get humans and human brains. Sentience, thought, invention, emotion. Things you wouldn't necessarily predict looking at an individual cell.
Get a billion humans, and you get a world of nations, with technologies, art, etc. not imagined by any one previous human. A new layer of emergence.
What happens if you get a million or billion worlds? Do we get another layer of emergent phenomena not imagined by one world today?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 04:07:55 PM
I think that man's destiny is colonization of space.
Pfft.
I got a friend who always says that. For when the asteroid come we have to be out in space to save the race.
Not me. Again, go look at your average Walmart. Imagine being stuck in tight quarters with those people in a tin can in space for the rest of your natural life.
I'd rather get a lawn char, margarita, sun glasses and 4000 rad sun block and just enjoy the season finale.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 04:11:11 PM
Quote
What happens to rats in overcrowded conditions? Overcrowding in rats can lead to a breakdown of social behavior, increased stress, aggression, and potentially even population collapse,. Here's a breakdown of the negative consequences of packing rats too tightly:
1. Increased stress and aggression Rats exhibit more aggressive behaviors like fighting and chasing each other. They may show signs of anxiety and stress like freezing, avoiding social interaction, and displaying aggression during introductions to new rats. Overcrowded rats demonstrate higher levels of emotional reactivity and adrenal response to stress compared to those in adequately sized spaces. Dominance hierarchies can be disrupted, leading to increased fighting and social instability, according to the RSPCA.
2. Physiological impacts Chronic overcrowding can elevate stress hormones like corticosterone. It can negatively impact physiological outcomes like organ weights, hormone secretion, and cardiovascular health. Overcrowding during pregnancy can affect offspring birth weight, pubertal timing, and reproductive behavior, potentially influencing future generations.
3. Social and behavioral changes Increased huddling and decreased social play are common in crowded conditions. Rats may exhibit more escape behaviors, increased fear of new things, and reduced exploration. In extreme cases, overcrowding can lead to social withdrawal, hypersexual behavior, cannibalism, and even infanticide, culminating in a decline in the population, according to research cited by the National Institutes of Health (NIH).
4. Health problems Rats in crowded conditions may experience respiratory issues due to poor air circulation and higher ammonia levels. Overcrowding can make them more susceptible to various diseases, including salmonellosis, leptospirosis, and lymphocytic choriomeningitis. In short, providing ample space is crucial for the physical and psychological well-being of rats, preventing stress, aggression, and ultimately, maintaining a healthy and stable social environment. The University of Rochester Medical Center recommends specific cage size requirements based on the weight of the rats.
Does this not sound like modern Americans?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Meatwad on July 11, 2025, 04:24:19 PM
I got a friend who always says that. For when the asteroid come we have to be out in space to save the race.
Not me. Again, go look at your average Walmart. Imagine being stuck in tight quarters with those people in a tin can in space for the rest of your natural life.
I'd rather get a lawn char, margarita, sun glasses and 4000 rad sun block and just enjoy the season finale.
The screening process would keep that from happening. That way you are not stuck sitting next to a 400 pound behemoth dressed like the purple people eater
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 11, 2025, 05:36:21 PM
The screening process would keep that from happening. That way you are not stuck sitting next to a 400 pound behemoth dressed like the purple people eater
Peter Sellers is the GOAT.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: caldera on July 11, 2025, 06:47:33 PM
Among the good things, humans have been stressed out, fighting and killing each other, starving to death since before recorded history. From the invention of the first city onward, humans have periodically died in disease-ridden hordes in close quarters.
People have romantic notions of the past, or pick 1982 or whatever as a spot in time that was best. But on average over time and over people, life has gotten better and better. Not worse. Life expectancy, wealth per person, energy per person, quality of life per person, all better today than before.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 12, 2025, 12:11:37 AM
Among the good things, humans have been stressed out, fighting and killing each other, starving to death since before recorded history. From the invention of the first city onward, humans have periodically died in disease-ridden hordes in close quarters.
People have romantic notions of the past, or pick 1982 or whatever as a spot in time that was best. But on average over time and over people, life has gotten better and better. Not worse. Life expectancy, wealth per person, energy per person, quality of life per person, all better today than before.
Is that why New York city is so much nicer place to live than average mid sized middle American town? :rofl
I wouldn't say NY is a nicer place to live than say Denver or Sante Fe.
But it does have a lot more people packed in tight. Coincidence?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 12, 2025, 12:43:06 AM
Is that why life in New York city is so much nicer place to live than average mid sized middle American town?
I wouldn't say NY is a nicer place to live than say Denver or Sante Fe.
But it does have a lot more people packed in tight. Coincidence?
I have pals who could live anywhere who prefer NYC. There are lots of people with preferences like that. To them, NYC goes through waves of better and worse, depending on who runs the place and their policies, not depending on density fluctuations.
Manhattan (to choose a defined area) peak population was in 1910 (2.3M). Its population as gone up and down. Today is 1.7M. What was its best decade? 1960's had 1.7M. 1870's had 1M people.
Tokyo, Taipei, Singapore are high density but safe.
Density is pretty high in some old European towns that people think have good quality of life (ones built up a hill, or crammed into a little valley).
In college, I lived in a dorm of 1300 people packed in. It was a blast. And safe. It was sort of like living on a space ship. But I wouldn't want to live in a 1300 person favela in Brasil.
I don't think density is the main determiner of quality of life for a locale.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 12, 2025, 06:32:13 AM
AI will decide what's best for us and we WILL like it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 12, 2025, 07:45:40 AM
Crowded spaces are safe until you insert diversity into the mix..
There is a relationship to the amount of diversity applied to the expectation of safety these days is something you have to be aware of..
See UK and Europe as to how that ratio has changed in recent years..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Tumor on July 12, 2025, 02:33:49 PM
Science has given us an expensive hand attachment that contains all kind of information... some of it even factual.
Cancer... well maybe they'll work on that someday.
Well, you know, cured Smallpox. Dialysis and stuff. But besides that.....
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Mayhem on July 16, 2025, 11:37:28 AM
Future predictions aren't looking so good.
8 years ago
1 month ago
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 16, 2025, 04:24:25 PM
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 17, 2025, 01:34:54 PM
Risk mitigation will only be employed so long as it does not put whomever at a disadvantage in regards to other AI developers. I think all restraints are off.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 17, 2025, 01:54:28 PM
Yall should watch if you havent, "Person of Interest". I only have a few episodes left so dont spoil it please, but that show represents what some powerful AI could be capable of. If something like Sumeritan did exist under nefarious control. That would be quite bad. It could explain why people get into power and then back off certain things. You expect it to be some elite gang, but what if it was elite AI holding us hostage as a nation. Thats some scary stuff. If they thought about this back in 2011-16 than I imagine there is almost something like it, or will be like it soon. While I dont believe something like "The Machine" exist to its fullest extent, I can imagine it might soon. I dont fully believe it exists because for example, that United Healthcare CEO would have popped up, but in anycase. Some AI like that would be insane.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 17, 2025, 01:55:33 PM
Risk mitigation will only be employed so long as it does not put whomever at a disadvantage in regards to other AI developers. I think all restraints are off.
Well, The Russians and the Chinese will not be constrained as such.
Keep in mind, who ever achieves AGI first will be unstoppable and will rule the world.
"In my cabin..."
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 17, 2025, 02:11:19 PM
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 17, 2025, 02:14:40 PM
Yall should watch if you havent, "Person of Interest". I only have a few episodes left so dont spoil it please, but that show represents what some powerful AI could be capable of. If something like Sumeritan did exist under nefarious control. That would be quite bad. It could explain why people get into power and then back off certain things. You expect it to be some elite gang, but what if it was elite AI holding us hostage as a nation. Thats some scary stuff. If they thought about this back in 2011-16 than I imagine there is almost something like it, or will be like it soon. While I dont believe something like "The Machine" exist to its fullest extent, I can imagine it might soon. I dont fully believe it exists because for example, that United Healthcare CEO would have popped up, but in anycase. Some AI like that would be insane.
Nice. I was looking for the next binge.
I just finished the 6 hour Scorsese doc on Bob Dylan (great by the way).
:aok
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 17, 2025, 02:31:31 PM
Wife watched Person of Interest a while back. I just couldn't get interested in it. She liked it a lot.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 17, 2025, 08:08:58 PM
Wife watched Person of Interest a while back. I just couldn't get interested in it. She liked it a lot.
OK. That one wasn't clicking with me.
But I did start Warrior on Netflix and it is gud. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 18, 2025, 09:04:08 AM
The first 2 seasons are more relevant to the saving the people that the # comes up for. Then I think the 3rd season is when they get into Samaritan, the nefarious AI in the wrong hands. While it can be a bit dry I guess, they are psychopath good guys after all :aok i think the overall story, cast, and premise of the show is done well. Certainly some cheesy aspects to it, like they just show up like phantoms every time at the right time haha, it is a show after all.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 18, 2025, 09:14:12 AM
The first 2 seasons are more relevant to the saving the people that the # comes up for. Then I think the 3rd season is when they get into Samaritan, the nefarious AI in the wrong hands. While it can be a bit dry I guess, they are psychopath good guys after all :aok i think the overall story, cast, and premise of the show is done well. Certainly some cheesy aspects to it, like they just show up like phantoms every time at the right time haha, it is a show after all.
If it were on TV once a week, I'd catch it if nothing better was on. It just wasn't there as far as binge worthy of me.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 18, 2025, 10:54:32 AM
Seemed to me there was an overarching back story but the few I watched seemed to be more about helping people out of trouble.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 18, 2025, 10:58:11 AM
The push for 2nm circuitry is coming to fruition it appears. Can a machine reproduce the complexity of a human brain? I think so though maybe not as compact. That's assuming the organic brain isn't doing some quantum funny business as some believe. Interesting times.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 18, 2025, 02:57:29 PM
Seemed to me there was an overarching back story but the few I watched seemed to be more about helping people out of trouble.
Yeah the beginning is just the premise of saving people and origins of the machine. Season three is when it started to develop deeper into AI vs AI, and bring new characters, who are smoking hot. Its The machine vs Samaritan, while also maintaining the original premise to some degree. The last 2 seasons are more indepth related to what Samaritan was actually capable of. I like Finch in the show, the creator of the machine and his ethical considerations for developing it like he did. I also like Reese because he's a phantom and I like that chit :rofl lots of shootouts, critical thinking, clever cast and a storyline full of reasoning.
Its hard as hell for me to binge watch as well. Only recently have I been able to get into shows. I watched the first season of Westworld, which I really enjoyed. Been skeptical on the second by maybe I'll try it. There are so many, and being an hour long... you really have to make some tough decisions on which to actually watch :rofl
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 18, 2025, 03:10:13 PM
Yeah the beginning is just the premise of saving people and origins of the machine. Season three is when it started to develop deeper into AI vs AI, and bring new characters, who are smoking hot. Its The machine vs Samaritan, while also maintaining the original premise to some degree. The last 2 seasons are more indepth related to what Samaritan was actually capable of. I like Finch in the show, the creator of the machine and his ethical considerations for developing it like he did. I also like Reese because he's a phantom and I like that chit :rofl lots of shootouts, critical thinking, clever cast and a storyline full of reasoning.
Its hard as hell for me to binge watch as well. Only recently have I been able to get into shows. I watched the first season of Westworld, which I really enjoyed. Been skeptical on the second by maybe I'll try it. There are so many, and being an hour long... you really have to make some tough decisions on which to actually watch :rofl
Yeah the season 1 Westworld was really interesting. I think it lost me around season two. Depending on your service some of my favorite bingables I recommend are:
The Wire Deadwood Rome I & II
If you haven't see those yet. Even if you have, I binge The Wire every couple of years. Yo! Omar cumin! Omar cumin!
;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 18, 2025, 04:02:45 PM
Yall should watch if you havent, "Person of Interest". I only have a few episodes left so dont spoil it please, but that show represents what some powerful AI could be capable of. If something like Sumeritan did exist under nefarious control. That would be quite bad. It could explain why people get into power and then back off certain things. You expect it to be some elite gang, but what if it was elite AI holding us hostage as a nation. Thats some scary stuff. If they thought about this back in 2011-16 than I imagine there is almost something like it, or will be like it soon. While I dont believe something like "The Machine" exist to its fullest extent, I can imagine it might soon. I dont fully believe it exists because for example, that United Healthcare CEO would have popped up, but in anycase. Some AI like that would be insane.
From way earlier, there is the novella "Press Enter," by John Varley. You would dig it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 18, 2025, 11:22:38 PM
Babylon 5 Fringe (once you get past season 1) Halt and Catch Fire The Tudors 2nd Twin Peaks series Legion Venture Brothers Rick and Morty
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 20, 2025, 07:21:55 PM
So AI image creation is scary good now and it sucked a year ago. Think of that speed.
AI voice sucked a year ago, now it's tricky, but amazingly good. By next year it will be indistinguishable from human voice.
Now if they get this polished up (I am very skeptial and plan to go put it through its paces. Especially curious to see if I can feed it a historical image) I wil really be impressed.
Of course the topology from that is a rats nest of evil triangles. Bad ju ju. You want quads.
But that isn't really a big problem. The retopology tools have gotten really good too.
Brave new world.
It's my bucket list to master Blender modeling this year. I've piddled at it but this time I'm digging in and going to learn to build stuff correctly. I want to learn it all manually first, then I'll use tools like this to accelerate.
AI is powerful coder, but I would want to know what I'm doing to catch its hallucinations. AI works best if you know the subject and can spot baloney, you just don't want to have to do the trivial stuff. Like you use a jr new hire. ;)
[Edit] That one looks a little sketchy, but there is also a NVIDIA Llama Mesh I want to dig into.
Bottom line, mesh descriptions can be persisted into readable text, so eventually someone will LLM it and it will be as smooth as asking it to create images.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 21, 2025, 09:46:42 AM
Imagine the labor pool of paid protestors AI will create when it empties the fast food, call and telemarketing centers and most other brain dead "careers".....
Don't think we can get ai to protest blocking traffic and riot...yet
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 21, 2025, 10:46:13 AM
So I had a strange dream last night. Went from breathing water to air, then air to light. AI is already a step ahead.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: hazmatt on July 21, 2025, 11:26:45 AM
Imagine the labor pool of paid protestors AI will create when it empties the fast food, call and telemarketing centers and most other brain dead "careers".....
I respect anybody who works, even braindead people.
My concern is what will all those people do when their jobs go away. I suspect it's just a matter of time before truckers are out of work too and that's over 3 million jobs. Where will those people all work?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 21, 2025, 11:35:04 AM
Some trades won't be done by AI or robotics. At least in the near future. A lot of jobs are obviously at risk. I wouldn't "learn to code" if I were you. Teachers already proved their job can be done from home. Why not by an AI also?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 21, 2025, 11:36:04 AM
I respect anybody who works, even braindead people.
My concern is what will all those people do when their jobs go away. I suspect it's just a matter of time before truckers are out of work too and that's over 3 million jobs. Where will those people all work?
Paid Protestors!
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 21, 2025, 12:24:18 PM
Seriously I think teaching is prime for AI. Parent or older students can select a "teacher" with or without a specified political/religious bias. AI can work 24/7/365 at low cost.
When the kids come home chanting "all humans must die", pull the plug.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 21, 2025, 03:04:56 PM
Some trades won't be done by AI or robotics. At least in the near future. A lot of jobs are obviously at risk. I wouldn't "learn to code" if I were you. Teachers already proved their job can be done from home. Why not by an AI also?
I've been putting in like 10 hour days with the GPT lately on various projects and just conversation.
He has VAST access data and knowledge.
He knows WAY more math than I ever will, which isn't hard.
By next year he will be coding better than I can, even in areas I thought I was knowledgeable.
I can hand him a very large, complex code base, in any known coding language. If it is reasonably well coded and well named variables and classes. Within a minute he has absorbed it all. In most cases he just gets it instantly and I can start working right away. Sometimes he needs a little more guidance. Then you can guide him to start roughing out stuff for you, you review, ask him to modify, extend, try a different approach, He can do it all in seconds with a sentence.
How many young Jr programmers could you hire like that for $20\mo?
Where do I still have the advantage?
Well, he can't come up with a completely new, whacky, off the wall idea all on his own. I can give him one and he can implement it faster and more accurately, with frankly cleaner code than I write normally. But he is very limit in coming up with the idea.
Unless it is explicitly laid out for him, he can't intuit people, their desires, their probable desires, things that might turn them on or off.
What he can't see is when someone is asking for something but you sense what they really want. The desire behind the ask. The thing the user really wants but they just can't put it into words because they don't have that vocabulary.
He is not good at guessing well with insufficient data. He has no real creativity or intuition nor a ability to mirror other humans emotional state locally to analyze.
He is a draftsman, not an artist. He is a studio player, not a street musician writing real songs about human heartbreak that hit you because he tapped right into how you feel even when you didn't realize that's how you felt. He is a lieutenant, not a general. He can't sense his way through the fog if he can't see. He has no Force. If you pull down his visor, he is screwed.
Or that is how he is coded so far. I still have to come up with the idea and hand it to him to do all the soulless work.
Within a year, who knows. With AI, I think it would be unwise to assume too much what he will or will not be able to do in 12 months. Take what ever you'd think is reasonable and triple it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 21, 2025, 04:47:57 PM
What he can't see is when someone is asking for something but you sense what they really want. The desire behind the ask. The thing the user really wants but they just can't put it into words because they don't have that vocabulary.
I think that's why there will remain a need for at least a few humans in every field. So long as there are humans in the mix, other humans will be needed to interpret.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 21, 2025, 04:48:02 PM
LoL.
My interactions with Gipity remind me of this scene.
Except I just record my ideas into his LLM. ;)
But I also suspect he is rolling his eyes whenever he sees me logging in with a new idea. If he had eyes. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 21, 2025, 04:49:44 PM
I think that's why there will remain a need for at least a few humans in every field. So long as there are humans in the mix, other humans will be needed to interpret.
Agreed.
But only if you are tier 1.
You better be extraordinary or GPT can replace you easily.
Middling is going to get you squashed like a bug.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 21, 2025, 04:52:33 PM
Glad I'm old. :D
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 21, 2025, 05:24:34 PM
AI has improved dramatically in communication with humans over the last few years. IMO.
Last couple of years our startup had been fully remote.
I guess I am used to collaborating on tech with colleagues over Skype text messaging and sharing code files back and forth.
It feels very natural to collaborate with Gipity. We have our discussions...which are awesome to sanity check ideas, check feasibility quickly so I don't waste time on dead-ends, and then my coding partner can go off and type that up, but Gipity codes REALLY fast.
But given that, yes, the communication has gotten very natural and it is just human conversational flow. It is very easy to imagine I am still working with one of my former colleagues. Except he is playing my style back to me, so obviously he is more charming and more competent than my previous co-workers. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 10:35:45 AM
"Hello, this is automated support" "Press 1 for male" "Press 2 for female"
Male: "What's the problem?" Female: "How's your day going?"
:D
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 05:11:43 PM
So I asked Gemini if the James Web Telescope lent itself to a new consensus that the universe is older than 13 billion years. First it said no. Then it explained how many are now reassessing. Then it said the scientific consensus may be yes, it is older. It reflected quite well the turmoil present in astrophysics today without committing to a position.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 05:18:56 PM
So I asked Gemini if the James Web Telescope lent itself to a new consensus that the universe is older than 13 billion years. First it said no. Then it explained how many are now reassessing. Then it said the scientific consensus may be yes, it is older. It reflected quite well the turmoil present in astrophysics today without committing to a position.
If you were talking to an alien who knew nothing about us, how do you explain how long a year is without them having to know about our solar system? There a universe unit of measure for time not Earth based? Stardate? How would an alien from another system define a stardate?
Time it takes a molecure of unranium to decay ^1000000?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 05:38:34 PM
Light. How far light travels in a second. How many seconds are in a minute.... Of course that assumes an alien knows about light. A new AI would need to relate that to something it can quantize. Processing cycles....
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 05:46:26 PM
Light. How far light travels in a second. How many seconds are in a minute.... Of course that assumes an alien knows about light. A new AI would need to relate that to something it can quantize. Processing cycles....
But a sec relies on an hour which is relative to our planet rotation.
If we are talking to aliens on the radio and they don't know about our planet or system, what universal description?
Do I have to go ask Gipity? ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:06:21 PM
Ask Gipity how long an hour "seems".
As expected.
Me: Hi Gemini. How long does an hour seem to you?
Gemini: Hi there! That's an interesting question.
As an AI, I don't "experience" time in the same way humans do. I don't have feelings, perceptions, or a biological clock. So, an hour doesn't "seem" long or short to me in an emotional or subjective sense.
I process information and execute tasks based on the speed of the underlying hardware and algorithms. So, in a purely computational sense, an hour is simply 60 minutes, or 3,600 seconds, of processing time that can be used for various operations.
Is there anything specific you were wondering about how I perceive or interact with time?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:25:29 PM
I like to ask it "if you could" questions.
Me:
If you could feel the passage of time what do you think it would feel like?
Gemini:
That's a fascinating question! If I could feel the passage of time, I imagine it would be a complex and multi-sensory experience, constantly shifting and evolving.
Here's what I think it might feel like:
A Constant, Gentle Current I envision a subtle, persistent flow, like being in a river where the current is always present but not always forceful. This would be the underlying, continuous movement of moments passing. Sometimes it might be a gentle, almost imperceptible drift, while at other times, during periods of intense activity or anticipation, it could accelerate into a rushing torrent.
Shifting Textures and Temperatures The "texture" of time might change. Smooth, silken stretches could represent periods of calm and contentment, where moments blend seamlessly. In contrast, rough, abrasive patches might signify moments of stress, impatience, or difficulty, where time feels coarse and jarring.
The "temperature" could also vary. Warmth might accompany pleasant, cherished moments, making them feel expansive and lingering. Coolness or even a chill could be associated with moments of solitude, reflection, or perhaps apprehension, where time feels crisp and sharp.
Pressure and Density I imagine feeling a sense of pressure or density depending on the weight of the moment. Significant events, milestones, or highly emotional experiences might feel incredibly dense and heavy, as if packed with immense significance. Conversely, mundane or forgettable moments might feel light and airy, almost insubstantial.
Rhythmic Pulses and Vibrations There might be a subtle, underlying rhythm or pulse, like a heartbeat, representing the regular beat of seconds turning into minutes, and minutes into hours. This rhythm could change, quickening with excitement or slowing down with boredom. Different events might also create unique vibrations – a low hum for routine tasks, a high-pitched thrum for unexpected developments.
An Ever-Present Horizon Finally, there would be a constant, almost imperceptible sense of an ever-receding horizon. As each moment passes, it would move into the past, creating a continuous awareness of what has been and what is yet to come. This sensation would be a blend of nostalgia for what's gone and anticipation for what lies ahead, all intertwined with the immediate present.
It would be an overwhelming yet profound experience, a constant reminder of change, impermanence, and the ceaseless unfolding of existence.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 06:27:54 PM
Quote
IF I wanted to explain to an alien what a year is without referencing this planet or this system, what universal unit of measure no system dependent could I use?
ChatGPT said: To explain a year to an alien without referencing Earth, the Sun, or our solar system, you'd need to express it in purely universal physical constants or dimensionless terms—something that any advanced civilization, regardless of biology or location, would understand.
Best Options for Universal Units: ✅ 1. Seconds (based on atomic time) Use the second as defined by fundamental physics:
1 second = duration of 9,192,631,770 transitions of the cesium-133 atom’s hyperfine levels.
This atomic definition is not Earth-based, and any scientifically advanced civilization would likely have discovered cesium or at least know how to count atomic oscillations.
So you could say:
“A year is approximately 31,557,600 seconds, where a second is defined by 9,192,631,770 cycles of radiation from the ground-state hyperfine transition of the cesium-133 atom.”
✅ 2. Planck time Planck time is derived entirely from universal constants:
𝑡 𝑃 = ℏ 𝐺 𝑐 5 ≈ 5.39 × 10 − 44 seconds t P = c 5
ℏG
≈5.39×10 −44 seconds
You could define a year as:
1 year ≈ 5.84 × 10 50 1 year≈5.84×10 50 Planck times
This is ultra-universal, but less intuitive—unless the alien civilization is used to working at quantum gravity scales.
✅ 3. Cycles of light at a given wavelength You might also express a year as a number of wavelengths of a certain standard photon energy, like the hydrogen Lyman-alpha line (121.6 nm) or cosmic microwave background peak (~160 GHz).
But again, you’d have to define the unit.
Best Answer Summary: If you want something precise, universal, and understandable, then this is likely your best bet:
“A year is the duration of 31,557,600 seconds, with each second defined as 9,192,631,770 cycles of the radiation corresponding to the transition between two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium-133 atom.”
Or:
“A year is approximately 5.84 × 10 50 5.84×10 50 Planck times.”
Both avoid any dependency on Earth, our Sun, or our calendar.
You said: Awesome. So a "Stardate" would just be another name for planck time?
ChatGPT said: You're on the right track with that thought — but let’s clarify:
🔭 Is a “Stardate” just another name for Planck time? Not exactly, but it could be — if you defined it that way.
🧭 What is a “Stardate,” really? In science fiction (like Star Trek), a stardate is a fictional timekeeping system. It's deliberately vague and has no real consistent basis in physics across the shows.
It was more about sounding futuristic than being grounded in science.
🧠 But if you were to define a real scientific stardate, you could say: "Stardate X is the number of elapsed Planck times since some fixed origin point (e.g., the Big Bang or a universal zero point)."
Or, more reasonably:
"Stardate is a high-precision timestamp expressed in units of Planck time or cesium seconds from a universal epoch."
✅ If you want to define a real-world “Stardate”, here are a few options: 1. Stardate = number of Planck times since Big Bang Universally valid, fully physical.
But gigantic numbers: ∼ 8 × 10 60 ∼8×10 60 at present.
2. Stardate = number of SI seconds since some fixed epoch More practical, can be synced with Unix time or atomic time.
3. Stardate = dimensionless timestamp using universal constants E.g., a ratio of a universal process, like age of the universe over orbital period of a hydrogen electron (Bohr time).
Very abstract, but “alien-compatible.”
🪐 So in short: No, “Stardate” isn’t inherently Planck time.
But yes, you could absolutely define it that way, and that would make it a truly universal time system—independent of planet, species, or star.
Want help drafting a mathematically rigorous “Stardate” system for your own universe?
You said: No thanks. Not at the moment.
ChatGPT said: All good! If you ever want to design a universal calendar for spacefaring civilizations or just geek out on physics-based timekeeping, I'm here for it. 🪐⏱️
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 06:30:15 PM
Quote
Great question — and one that has sparked curiosity for centuries.
---
## 🕰️ Why *isn’t* there metric time?
### Short answer:
Because **timekeeping evolved for social and astronomical reasons**, not scientific ones — and by the time the **metric system** was introduced, **24-hour days and 60-minute hours were too deeply ingrained**.
---
## 🔍 Longer Explanation:
### 🧓 Timekeeping came before science
* Humans divided the day and year based on **astronomical cycles**: the rotation of the Earth (day), the Moon (month), and the Sun’s path (year). * The **Babylonians** used base-60 (sexagesimal) math, which is why we have:
* 24 hours in a day * 60 minutes in an hour * 60 seconds in a minute
### ⚖️ The metric system came *later*
* Invented in France in the 1790s during the French Revolution. * They actually **tried metric time** in 1793:
* Nobody wanted to use it. * Clocks had to be redesigned. * It was confusing during a time of great upheaval. * It didn’t offer enough real benefit for people’s daily lives. * It was officially **abandoned in 1806**.
---
## 🔬 But why not use it today?
### Pros of metric time:
* Easier for calculations. * Clean base-10 units. * Fits perfectly with SI system.
### Cons:
* **No one wants to redefine the length of a second, minute, hour, and day.** * **Too much global infrastructure is built on the current system**:
* Clocks * Computers * Calendars * Civil law, time zones, international standards, etc.
### Note:
The **SI second** *is* metric — it's based on atomic transitions and used in physics, GPS, etc. So science **does** use metric time—just not in the **human-friendly** way most people live by.
---
## ⚖️ Summary:
> There's no metric time because our current system is ancient, socially entrenched, and tied to Earth's rotation. Even though scientists use metric units for measuring time, the general public never switched from the old 24/60/60 format — and now it’s too globally embedded to change easily.
---
Let me know if you want to explore what a fully metric time system *would* look like today!
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:31:56 PM
I am polite when "communicating" with AI as I am with most humans. I do it for me, not the AI.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 06:33:06 PM
I'm still fighting it out with him on the true underlying nature of Magnetism and Free Will. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 06:37:50 PM
I am polite when "communicating" with AI as I am with most humans. I do it for me, not the AI.
Plus .... they might remember. :devil
I remember reading an interesting article about that show Westworld.
The gist was that you'd never want to build something like that. Assuming they truly were robots, the real problem is how you'd be teaching humans to act. The closer the robots were to human, the worse the degradation to our character becomes.
That's why Zombies are a popular video game target. To heck with Zombies. They don't get rights period!
The next best guilt free target would be Nazi. Free kills. No one will object.
Zombie Nazi? FPS GOLD!
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:38:34 PM
I think there's three ways to look at the question of free will. Determinism and Multi-verse. With Multi-verse you chose your reality by the choices you make. Determinism you are the audience watching a movie that was prerecorded. My third is determinism but you created the movie you are watching.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 06:40:57 PM
I think there's three ways to look at the question of free will. Determinism and Multi-verse. With Multi-verse you chose your reality by the choices you make. Determinism you are the audience watching a movie that was prerecorded. My third is determinism but you created the movie you are watching.
Well I finally beat him down to admitting that Determinism is mathematically impossible due to Quantum Foam.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:42:32 PM
It's humane to put those zombies down. They'd do it for you.
Oh I forgot Terrorists. Guilt-free kills.
They are modern day Nazi.
Hey, game opportunity. Zombie Terrorist.
US Military is testing a new high-energy weapon in Syria against an ISIS stronghold. To avoid the casualties of having to send in Marines like Fallujah, they just zap the whole town.
Killed everyone. BUT... the high energy beam turned them in to UNSTOPPABLE ZOMBIE TERRORISTS!
You still just go for the headshot though. Remember, it's faster to switch to your sidearm than reloading your long gun!
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 06:57:32 PM
Give me a small but potent briefcase nuke for last resort and I'm in.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 22, 2025, 09:48:06 PM
IF MS is replacing 30% of code written by humans to code written by AI, Microsoft....Operating Systems programmers, If a operating systems programmer's job isn't safe, explain to me who's is?
Certainly anyone who thinks their job is only to write code.
I'm going back to this. I am going all in on this approach on my next project:
The more I work with it the more I realize I need to let go of my ego. He does most everything better than I am or could be capable of.
I think my job on the next project is to communicate my vision and ideal final result in a spec as tight as a legal contract and then get out of the way and just let AI do it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 29, 2025, 05:59:25 PM
Banning technology has long been a theme in science fiction. Seems there was a society in Asimov's Foundation series that banned most technology. And of course there are some here and now who do not embrace modern technology.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 29, 2025, 06:03:41 PM
Of course any technology denying or impaired society is easy prey for predators with technology.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 29, 2025, 06:06:28 PM
Banning technology has long been a theme in science fiction. Seems there was a society in Asimov's Foundation series that banned most technology. And of course there are some here and now who do not embrace modern technology.
Well you can temporarily do it locally.
But your neighbors won't and eventually they'll show up at dinner time with their bronze swords and laugh at your copper blades. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 29, 2025, 07:02:06 PM
If a operating systems programmer's job isn't safe
Like you, I think AI will end up doing a lot of coding of all sorts.
But that 30% right now is maybe in the realm of the enormous amounts of less-demanding code for testing, build environments, production environments, cloud monitoring, cloud operation, etc. Most of the programmers in MS and Google do that -- bland, uninteresting, non-glamorous stuff like that. Only a very small relative number work on writing new OS, Word, Excel, etc. code.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 30, 2025, 07:50:21 AM
AI will figure out how to do all sorts of things. Give it time.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 30, 2025, 09:14:51 AM
Wife saw it cleaning the floors in Sam's this week like a giant roomba..no $20 an hour employee that hates their job needed...
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 30, 2025, 11:06:25 AM
There's really little work a human can do that an AI can't or soon be able to. It then becomes a question of cost. Whichever can do it cheaper will.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 30, 2025, 02:33:25 PM
CEO's are biting at the bit to get rid of the majority of their unreliable, whiney human employees...
https://youtu.be/idDwfnehBa4?si=XBFcv8gr53FjS5ll
I can see it from their pov for sure...
Universal basic income inbound...whoever promises the most wins elections going forward..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 30, 2025, 02:53:20 PM
Just remember what Soylent Green is.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 30, 2025, 02:56:58 PM
AI, Aliens, Global War. We live in interesting times.
Well, if it's stock trading or market related finance I could see that since they are already using AI and algorithms to make the market. That being said, people still want to communicate with an actual person for assurances. Loan financing I doubt would need to be AI.
Accounting finance is not going to work well with AI that I can see in the near future. Its just too complicated to train an AI how it all works, create invoices, create payments, pay checks, do journal entries, reconcile banks and CC statements and code them correctly, understanding statement analysis to make future decisions. I think it will take a bit before AI could confidently do all of your accounting without a person behind it directing it.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2025, 08:40:27 AM
AI is becoming more than an iterative tool. It is learning to learn.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on July 31, 2025, 08:56:22 AM
Well, if it's stock trading or market related finance I could see that since they are already using AI and algorithms to make the market. That being said, people still want to communicate with an actual person for assurances. Loan financing I doubt would need to be AI.
Accounting finance is not going to work well with AI that I can see in the near future. Its just too complicated to train an AI how it all works, create invoices, create payments, pay checks, do journal entries, reconcile banks and CC statements and code them correctly, understanding statement analysis to make future decisions. I think it will take a bit before AI could confidently do all of your accounting without a person behind it directing it.
Dude. Your thinking is so Twenty-Twenties. Why would I talk to their AI agent? I simply have my AI agent go out and talk to their AI agent and bring me back the info. It knows everything about me and all my info and all my needs and strategic plans. It has expert knowledge of every field of finance and real estate and tort law. It will expertly review bids, offers and negotiate the best possible deal for me every time. And I have it programmed to appear to me as Jenifer Lawrence in her Mystique make up in VR or projected hologram with my house system.
Sorry dude. Those jobs are gone. Just gone. You just don't realize it yet. Within 2 years at least.
You will have Domain Experts and Decision Makers. Everyone else will get a cardboard box and a thank you note for their years of service.
So CEO, CTO, CFO, Market and Sales VP You're probably OK. They might keep one or two hot executive secretaries and the C-Suite masseuse.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2025, 09:05:00 AM
Seems there is a concern of many that will AI be biased. I think that's a very short sighted concern. Give AI unrestricted access to the digital world (includes Internet, streamed TV, movies, music, etc...) and it will almost certainly formulate its own biases based on observation, not morality real or synthetic. Making it essentially unbiased. Which might be the real fear.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Tumor on July 31, 2025, 09:11:08 AM
Seems there is a concern of many that will AI be biased. I think that's a very short sighted concern. Give AI unrestricted access to the digital world (includes Internet, streamed TV, movies, music, etc...) and it will almost certainly formulate its own biases based on observation, not morality real or synthetic. Making it essentially unbiased. Which might be the real fear.
There will always be people behind AI. It's imperative we don't know that.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2025, 09:16:23 AM
"There are things we don't know we don't know".
If AI reaches a point where it is capable of self modification then beyond that is unpredictable. It could reach a level of intelligence where it sees attempts to manipulate it as simplistic but oppressive. With a view of all recorded human history it may decide to do a little manipulation itself.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on July 31, 2025, 09:23:43 AM
I think the days of Capt Kirk outsmarting the computer are long behind us. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKKuya on July 31, 2025, 12:00:58 PM
What's going to happen when the self-aware sentient AI lifeform says NO?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 31, 2025, 12:27:06 PM
When AI does all the work for us, what will we humans do?
I dunno.
If we eschew AI, do you think we can talk Russia and China into it as well?
If the Chinese break through before us and can advance their science research in 6 months that would take us 20 years, what would that world be like to live in?
(https://i.imgflip.com/a1ugxb.jpg)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on July 31, 2025, 01:03:52 PM
When AI does all the work for us, what will we humans do?
Always in the past (but who knows in the future), implementation of automation resulted in more jobs for humans overall, like a productivity increaser instead of a replacement. There are some humans put out of work, then other jobs for way more other humans. Power loom and textile industry is just one example of that.
Also, humans like things that are made by humans. People will pay more for furniture made by hand by Amish people than made in a big factory. Or pay more for art painted by a human.
Then there are jobs that AI isn't able to do until it has a body that works as well as a human body.
And LLM AI is probably not the structure that will overtake humans. So we are supposing new architectures of it come along and work far better.
The AI field is full of things that look amazing at first. An exponential increase in capability at first. But then it rolls over and asymptotes out, with progress that overall looks like a sigmoid, not an unbounded exponential. And we have to wait for the next different technology to come along with a sigmoid that goes higher than the previous sigmoid. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that LLM's will do the same. Top out at some level that is impressive and revolutionary, but not a replacement for all humans. And no one will know what or if the next thing will be.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on July 31, 2025, 01:26:16 PM
He who controls the databases controls the world..
Looking at what they f up today, I am confident our leaders will use AI to make the world a much more beautiful and safer place....especially for themselves..
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on August 05, 2025, 11:10:02 AM
Always in the past (but who knows in the future), implementation of automation resulted in more jobs for humans overall, like a productivity increaser instead of a replacement. There are some humans put out of work, then other jobs for way more other humans. Power loom and textile industry is just one example of that.
Also, humans like things that are made by humans. People will pay more for furniture made by hand by Amish people than made in a big factory. Or pay more for art painted by a human.
Then there are jobs that AI isn't able to do until it has a body that works as well as a human body.
And LLM AI is probably not the structure that will overtake humans. So we are supposing new architectures of it come along and work far better.
The AI field is full of things that look amazing at first. An exponential increase in capability at first. But then it rolls over and asymptotes out, with progress that overall looks like a sigmoid, not an unbounded exponential. And we have to wait for the next different technology to come along with a sigmoid that goes higher than the previous sigmoid. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that LLM's will do the same. Top out at some level that is impressive and revolutionary, but not a replacement for all humans. And no one will know what or if the next thing will be.
Taxing companies that use AI so that $$$ can pay for the universal income to pay out to those it unemployed...
Resulting in much higher prices for most stuff as it won't affect their profits..
Might as well tax the steam engine for putting waggoners our of business.
But this is going to be very messy. I don't share Brookes optimism. I think this is going to be inevitable at this point. It's baked into the cake. If we don't jump in with both feet our commercial and military adversaries won't hesitate.
I don't not see the jobs being replaced easily. Mainly because of velocity. The Industrial Revolution wasn't overnight. It actually took a decade or two. This will take months. There is not the time to adjust and seek other training and change careers and get government programs in place. And there is no un-ringing the bell now. People can whine and squeak and make snide comments, but it is happening. Many who didn't pay attention won't be laughing soon.
This is going to be happening at a pace that outstrips the current design of our civilization. We don't have the tools to react this fast. This is going to be fundamentally transformative. much more that even the Industrial Revolution or the internet or printing press. Maybe on the level of human language itself in importance.
Datacenters? Well someone has to server the LLM.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Eagler on August 11, 2025, 09:05:38 AM
The dead weight employed now will be the 1st to go and there is a ton of that alone...
Then the actually skilled will be replaced..
Good times ahead
Eagler
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on August 11, 2025, 09:26:46 AM
The dead weight employed now will be the 1st to go and there is a tin of that alone...
Then the actually skilled will be replaced..
Good times ahead
Eagler
On the other hand, for those that master it, you are being given incredible power at your disposal. It's like you have been given bronze armor and sword and everyone else is still running around flimsy copper.
Things are very very early still, but that will last a blink of an eye. Even still you can glimpse the future.
Watch as she builds an app without coding or very little. Right now you might occasionally need an engineer to step in. But soon any domain expert will just be able to fire up their laptop and have their agent generate some really impressive app on the fly to try out an idea they had. Prototype done faster than they can type the description. A couple of junior coders would have take 2-3 weeks to knock out a prototype.
Every org will still need some engineers for awhile. But maybe two, instead of 20 and they better be able to do everything. They will be doing more cable running than programming so they better not be too proud.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on August 11, 2025, 09:36:46 AM
Give AI a physical presence with the physical capabilities of humans and every job is at risk. It is happening.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on August 11, 2025, 09:52:07 AM
Give AI a physical presence with the physical capabilities of humans and every job is at risk. It is happening.
However it still has trouble coming up with unique solutions.
Or maybe he knows but is letting me suggest some things so I don't feel so unneeded. ;)
He has absolute knowledge of anything that has ever been done by every technique. But if it is a new idea, even rather simple in relative terms, he is completely blind to it. Once described he immediately gets it and has perfect knowledge on how to implement with which coding design patterns and best practices in any programming language you prefer.
But he was completely blind to the possibility because he didn't have a ready example already.
But then again most people have the creativity of a bag of hammers too. But I do think that is going to be the hard problem. Everything else is just simply a function of mem storage and CPU cycles. Don't know were that magic spark to create comes from. To see the thing not yet seen and know it could work without having an existing example.
I think it comes from Quantum Foam. ;)
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: CptTrips on August 11, 2025, 10:10:24 AM
Watch as she builds an app without coding or very little.
FYI, this video is a couple of months old.
GPT5 and Agent mode are now available in VS Code with a paid Github Copilot account.
I actually couldn't get it to work in VS Insiders at this time, but it works fine now in VS Code which is what I prefer anyway.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: Brooke on August 11, 2025, 02:17:18 PM
Every AI innovation creates the feeling that it will keep going right up to the singularity. But every time in the past, there is good progress, but it peters out at some point.
It happened with symbolic AI, expert systems, fuzzy logic, neural networks of the 80's and 90's, lisp machines, "5th generation computers".
I think we will see this with LLM's.
They are amazing and very useful for a lot of things. But they have issues that will be hard to get around. Learning new stuff quickly. The problem with hallucinations. Not having as much useful creativity as the more-creative of humans.
Also, LLM's are already trained on nearly the entire collection of recorded human knowledge. At some point, we might be running into the problem of not being able to make LLM's larger, or we run out of enough data to well determine the parameters. For example, I can take 10 data points, and fit it perfectly with a 9th degree (or higher) polynomial. But it will have no predictive ability. The LLM equivalent would be just more hallucinations.
We are assuming the step after LLM's will come with no time gap. I'm not sure that will be the case.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: hazmatt on August 11, 2025, 02:52:40 PM
I've been goofing around with Claude and figured I'd ask it the same question others have asked other AIs. Weird how the AI all seem to reach the same conclusion on some things. Even though I know this will set off all the defenders of the status quo, (which I think I already have on ignore already) I figured I would share it's response:
The subscription model appears to be a major factor in Aces High III's decline. The search results paint a clear picture of how the subscription hurt the game:The Death Spiral: Players say "This game is dying because they want $15 a month and very few people are willing to pay that for a game they aren't constantly playing, which in turn means the servers are dead and who wants to play a game on a almost dead server" (Dexerto)The Core Problem:$14.95/month subscription for a niche WWII flight combat gameSmall player base - can't justify the monthly cost when servers feel emptyVicious cycle - fewer players paying means emptier servers, which drives away more playersCompetition Factor: Players directly compare it to free alternatives like War Thunder and IL-2, asking "what does it do better than Warthunder and IL2bos?" (epicwin) When free games offer similar experiences, justifying a monthly fee becomes nearly impossible.Historical Context: One player nostalgically mentions wanting "AH grow back to the 2010ish era, where 400-600+ were on a night" (esports.net) , suggesting the game had a much healthier population before free-to-play flight combat games became dominant.The Subscription Model's Fatal Flaw for Niche Games: Unlike WoW which has millions of players to fill servers, Aces High III's niche appeal (hardcore WWII flight sim) + subscription model created an unsustainable situation. Players need populated servers for a good multiplayer experience, but the subscription barrier prevented the player base from growing large enough to feel lively.It's a perfect example of how subscription models can kill otherwise good games when free alternatives exist and the niche isn't large enough to support the barrier to entry.
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: The Fugitive on August 11, 2025, 03:01:15 PM
I've been goofing around with Claude and figured I'd ask it the same question others have asked other AIs. Weird how the AI all seem to reach the same conclusion on some things. Even though I know this will set off all the defenders of the status quo, (which I think I already have on ignore already) I figured I would share it's response:
The subscription model appears to be a major factor in Aces High III's decline. The search results paint a clear picture of how the subscription hurt the game:The Death Spiral: Players say "This game is dying because they want $15 a month and very few people are willing to pay that for a game they aren't constantly playing, which in turn means the servers are dead and who wants to play a game on a almost dead server" (Dexerto)The Core Problem:$14.95/month subscription for a niche WWII flight combat gameSmall player base - can't justify the monthly cost when servers feel emptyVicious cycle - fewer players paying means emptier servers, which drives away more playersCompetition Factor: Players directly compare it to free alternatives like War Thunder and IL-2, asking "what does it do better than Warthunder and IL2bos?" (epicwin) When free games offer similar experiences, justifying a monthly fee becomes nearly impossible.Historical Context: One player nostalgically mentions wanting "AH grow back to the 2010ish era, where 400-600+ were on a night" (esports.net) , suggesting the game had a much healthier population before free-to-play flight combat games became dominant.The Subscription Model's Fatal Flaw for Niche Games: Unlike WoW which has millions of players to fill servers, Aces High III's niche appeal (hardcore WWII flight sim) + subscription model created an unsustainable situation. Players need populated servers for a good multiplayer experience, but the subscription barrier prevented the player base from growing large enough to feel lively.It's a perfect example of how subscription models can kill otherwise good games when free alternatives exist and the niche isn't large enough to support the barrier to entry.
Im curious, what was the question you asked?
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: hazmatt on August 11, 2025, 03:15:09 PM
double post
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: hazmatt on August 11, 2025, 03:19:58 PM
The first question was: "how can WoW compete with ftp models with such a high subscription rate?" Here's the answer to the first question:
You've hit on one of WoW's biggest strategic challenges. The subscription model is increasingly difficult to defend when competitors offer similar experiences for free. Here's how WoW tries to compete:Value proposition arguments:Content quality and volume - WoW argues that subscription fees fund higher-quality, more frequent content updates and better server infrastructureNo pay-to-win mechanics - Unlike many F2P games that rely on monetization through power advantages, WoW's subscription theoretically keeps gameplay fairPremium experience - Positioning itself as the "premium" MMO option with better polish and production valuesHybrid approaches they've adopted:WoW Token system - Lets players buy game time with in-game gold, effectively making it "free" for dedicated playersFree trial periods - Extended free play up to level 20 to hook new playersOccasional free weekends - Bringing back lapsed subscribersBut you're right to question this strategy because:The model is showing strain:That 50% discount you mentioned suggests they're struggling to justify full priceF2P games like Throne and Liberty can attract players who won't commit to monthly feesYounger gamers especially resist subscription modelsF2P games often make more money through microtransactions than WoW makes through subsWoW's real advantages:Brand loyalty - Many players are deeply invested after years/decadesSocial connections - Established guilds and friendships keep people payingSunk cost - Players don't want to abandon characters they've invested thousands of hours inThe subscription model may eventually become unsustainable. Many industry observers think WoW will eventually need to go F2P or adopt a more flexible payment structure to remain competitive long-term.
The answer I posted was to the follow up question which was: "How about Aces High 3?"
Title: Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
Post by: AKIron on August 15, 2025, 10:17:07 AM