General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: haggerty on July 20, 2025, 01:25:24 AM
Title: State of the Union Address?
Post by: haggerty on July 20, 2025, 01:25:24 AM
Its been many years since there has been an update that wasn't just skins being changed. Can we get a status of what Hitech is working on, if anything? What's the direction of the game, any expected improvements eventually? we just riding this out until all the subs die off? I'm happy with the game in general, its just nice to have engaged development.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: caldera on July 20, 2025, 07:28:36 AM
I think he went all in with the switch to AH3 and isn't going to do any more than keep the status quo.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mERv on July 20, 2025, 11:19:06 AM
I think he went all in with the switch to AH3 and isn't going to do any more than keep the status quo.
I spoke to him a year ago about this. Although he did confirm he is still doing some projects with the game whether that has any validity or not only he knows. The game is coasting to the finish line which is fine by me. I agree with haggerty it is nice to have engaged development. With that said I have come to accept status quo and will continue to enjoy the game as is.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 20, 2025, 11:38:54 AM
I don't think it needs anything new just tweaks to like dar..
Small maps to match current numbers and it's a blast I don't get anywhere else..
Pick the right plane, don't care about landing kills and this place can be fantastic!
Thanks HT :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: uptown on July 20, 2025, 12:35:23 PM
This is basically a repeat of the "worth buying" thread. This community wants updates, upgrades and improvements but seem to overlook the fact that these thing cost money....real money. Technology and innovation and the staffing, the advertising ....you're probably talking 40 or 50 bucks a month. I see lots of complaints, but no one is forking over more than 15 bucks a month for the last couple of decades. It's all about the Benjamin's. :salute
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: haggerty on July 20, 2025, 03:31:41 PM
There is no cost except time, the company is a one man operation now and he is also the one that would make any coding changes or upgrades. But if there is no plan to add anything that is also nice to know.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: fudgums on July 20, 2025, 04:23:53 PM
Nothing wrong with developing Special Events if you all are willing to join.. SEA is what puts the game above others.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 20, 2025, 05:01:51 PM
Nothing wrong with developing Special Events if you all are willing to join.. SEA is what puts the game above others.
This^^^
I was in ww1 western front for a minute last night and it was pretty cool with the ai biplanes flying around..
Think there's a spot for an AI enhanced ww2 arena .. as it would give you something to shoot at when you find yourself auto assigned into a country that can't buy a fight from either of the other two..
AI initiated base capture missions that scale like eny to help keep balance between countries..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: The Fugitive on July 20, 2025, 05:23:40 PM
There is no cost except time, the company is a one man operation now and he is also the one that would make any coding changes or upgrades. But if there is no plan to add anything that is also nice to know.
Well if some people get the "nothing else is coming" it may chase some players away, giving up on the game. On the other hand I would love to be kept up to date on everything/anything! :D
Nothing wrong with developing Special Events if you all are willing to join.. SEA is what puts the game above others.
Thats the issue though, not everyone is willing to join special events. Ive done a number of them and they are just not for me. For the small anout of time I get to play I would much rather play in the MA.
I was in ww1 western front for a minute last night and it was pretty cool with the ai biplanes flying around..
Think there's a spot for an AI enhanced ww2 arena .. as it would give you something to shoot at when you find yourself auto assigned into a country that can't buy a fight from either of the other two..
AI initiated base capture missions that scale like eny to help keep balance between countries..
Eagler
I dont think AI is the way to go in the MA, events give it a go, but if I attended those I dont think Id like to see it there either. I think the biggest draw of this game is the depth of the game and the fact that every opponent you run into is a live person flying from any where in the world. As I said in one of my videos, "with real players you never know what they will do next!"
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mERv on July 20, 2025, 06:35:40 PM
There is no cost except time, the company is a one man operation now and he is also the one that would make any coding changes or upgrades. But if there is no plan to add anything that is also nice to know.
outsource new development through the community, implement updates through a beta server for testing, slow roll updates based on performance and customer opinions or.... what fudgams said
Well if some people get the "nothing else is coming" it may chase some players away, giving up on the game. On the other hand I would love to be kept up to date on everything/anything! :D
I dont think AI is the way to go in the MA, events give it a go, but if I attended those I dont think Id like to see it there either. I think the biggest draw of this game is the depth of the game and the fact that every opponent you run into is a live person flying from any where in the world. As I said in one of my videos, "with real players you never know what they will do next!"
As unpopular as my post are, I agree Saying the game is over will indeed chase people off and make it over. One can make negative happen if they keep repeating it AI in events, I won't go.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mERv on July 20, 2025, 06:51:13 PM
Not sure what the paranoia about AI filling in the sagging numbers is...but I can see some of you not wanting to be killed by it lol..
It probably could be programmed not to HO ... :joystick:
AI sticks would be better than no sticks imo..
Eagler
There is not paranoia, its personal preference to want to fight human pilots instead. Thats why we play this type of game in the first place. If AW was AI i would not have played. The day AI is used in the MA is the day you’ll really need it be ause many like me will drag up and leave.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Skyguns MKII on July 21, 2025, 12:16:41 PM
As unpopular as my post are, I agree Saying the game is over will indeed chase people off and make it over.
Its the reality. Live it while you can. A game with no development is a dying game and sugarcoating it isnt going to change anything. New players dont need to see the forums to make this conclusion. People just need to accept the fact that if HT wants to move on then thats his right.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 21, 2025, 04:51:25 PM
Its the reality. Live it while you can. A game with no development is a dying game and sugarcoating it isnt going to change anything. New players dont need to see the forums to make this conclusion. People just need to accept the fact that if HT wants to move on then thats his right.
Not sayin you’re wrong, but people have been saying that for years. All almost 3 yrs I’ve been back, for sure. With the type if revenue it still brings I don’t think it will be over next month.
My point is about all things in life, not just the game.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mustng2 on July 22, 2025, 09:04:58 AM
AI is available in staged missions and can be made to include as many types of enemy and friendly planes as you want. Their difficulty can also be modified. Staged missions can be used online with a custom arena if you want to mix live pilots other than yourself and AI or create a mini scenario. I am very rusty at staged mission creation, but would try to help if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: JimmyD3 on July 22, 2025, 10:57:22 AM
AI is available in staged missions and can be made to include as many types of enemy and friendly planes as you want. Their difficulty can also be modified. Staged missions can be used online with a custom arena if you want to mix live pilots other than yourself and AI or create a mini scenario. I am very rusty at staged mission creation, but would try to help if anyone is interested.
I still have one of you mission. I use it every now and then to help my gunnery accuracy. Were well done sir! <S>
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 22, 2025, 11:45:23 AM
I think it'd be neat that if when someone created a mission and when it was launched AI would fill in the empty slots..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 11:57:23 AM
I think it'd be neat that if when someone created a mission and when it was launched AI would fill in the empty slots..
Eagler
That is actually not a bad idea.
The mission def could be modified to be very much like a route defined in the ME.
Simplify things a bit so anyone can do it. Like a quick mission generator would work.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mustng2 on July 22, 2025, 12:11:50 PM
Unless I misunderstood the post, that is the way it is now. For example with one of your 4v4 missions in a custom arena with two squad mates, 3 live players would be assigned to either side and the other 5 would be AI.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 12:13:23 PM
Unless I misunderstood the post, that is the way it is now. For example with one of your 4v4 missions in a custom arena with two squad mates, 3 live players would be assigned to either side and the other 5 would be AI.
I think he means the ad hoc missions created in the Melee.
[Edit]
So like currently (if I'm remember right) if you created an ad hoc Melee mission with 4 bomber but only one player joins, it only spawns one set. I think he is saying fill the other slots not taken by players with more AI bombers.
That would be intriguing and would promote more missions, and could expand off the current Melee ad hoc mission def without adding permanent ongoing AI missions.
You'd have to put some reasonable constraints on it. ;)
Like maybe X limit on planes in any one mission and Y number of mission planes alive at any one time to avoid AI spamming. ;)
But as you see, there would be so much inherent bias against that that there would be revolution.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: mustng2 on July 22, 2025, 12:27:54 PM
Oh. That would be difficult over and above the objection to AI in the MA (I am one of those against it in the MA). You would have to create an equal number of AI defenders against the mission in one or both opposing countries. A lot of moving parts. Posted this before I saw your edit
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 12:32:28 PM
Oh. That would be difficult over and above the objection to AI in the MA (I am one of those against it in the MA). You would have to create an equal number of AI defenders against the mission in one or both opposing countries. A lot of moving parts. Posted this before I saw your edit
I don't see why.
If I create an ad hoc mission now, it creates no opposing mission on the other side, right?
You'd have to limit it to reasonable numbers. But let the other players intercept and shoot your AI down. Hopefully it would be a mixture of humans and AI in the mission.
But you can't even get a change in the terrain rotation list, so no, it will never happen, but it is an interesting idea. ;)
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 22, 2025, 02:16:32 PM
I think he means the ad hoc missions created in Melee
Yes the mission maker that exists now..
MA would be my pick but if not there then another arena like the western front ww1 one up now...
As numbers slide, AI could prop them up and maybe slow it down..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 22, 2025, 06:37:19 PM
Implement this and your numbers will slide faster. Thats a mistake that won't be undone quickly.
Instead of weird gimmicks because of low numbers how about working on raising numbers?
A lit of players return because fighting AI is lame and over used.
The ones who like AI the most are those who like creating missions with it. But I never heard any player in any game say they love it over humans. They don’t they tolerate.
You think radar drove a lot off, try this.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Dadtallica on July 22, 2025, 07:29:14 PM
I would like to make some missions is it still something you can do?
Single player IL2 careers really help my AHIII gunnery and plane management. I would like to make my own missions in AH. I’ve played a few of them and they can be sun for a bit.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 22, 2025, 07:36:14 PM
I would like to make some missions is it still something you can do?
Single player IL2 careers really help my AHIII gunnery and plane management. I would like to make my own missions in AH. I’ve played a few of them and they can be sun for a bit.
Look for "ahedmiss.exe" in your distro folder.
Watch these:
And refer to Mustangs docs: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382993.0.html (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382993.0.html)
The rest is elbow-grease.
I had tried of a year to encourage a mission builder cadre. No one was interest at the time. Nefarious bit to make stuff for FE. No one else was interested.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: eddiek on July 22, 2025, 07:58:42 PM
Full time, all over the map AI isn’t something I’d prefer. What I would like to see tried is using AI to augment the lower numbered side(s), to slow down the steam rolling. Used to create a temporary defense until human players showed up at a field under attack would also be something I think would be worth exploring. As soon as human players upped, the AI planes would exit the fight, proportionally until the defensive force was equal or near equal to the attacking force. Would there be an outcry? Of course. So what? The majority of the attacks in the MA go against undefended fields. They already go against a primitive and merely reactive AI…..might be time to urge folks to go where other humans are instead of constantly heading to the fields that have no dar bar. Would it be perfect? I’m not a fan of AI in general, but implemented correctly, and in small portions, it could actually improve gameplay in my opinion.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: JimmyD3 on July 22, 2025, 08:20:43 PM
Full time, all over the map AI isn’t something I’d prefer. What I would like to see tried is using AI to augment the lower numbered side(s), to slow down the steam rolling. Used to create a temporary defense until human players showed up at a field under attack would also be something I think would be worth exploring. As soon as human players upped, the AI planes would exit the fight, proportionally until the defensive force was equal or near equal to the attacking force. Would there be an outcry? Of course. So what? The majority of the attacks in the MA go against undefended fields. They already go against a primitive and merely reactive AI…..might be time to urge folks to go where other humans are instead of constantly heading to the fields that have no dar bar. Would it be perfect? I’m not a fan of AI in general, but implemented correctly, and in small portions, it could actually improve gameplay in my opinion.
Would that eliminate the need for ENY? :noid
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: eddiek on July 22, 2025, 08:56:00 PM
You’d have to ask HT that question, IF he decided to give it a try.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Dadtallica on July 22, 2025, 09:30:25 PM
And refer to Mustangs docs: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382993.0.html (https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,382993.0.html)
The rest is elbow-grease.
Thanks!
I had tried of a year to encourage a mission builder cadre. No one was interest at the time. Nefarious bit to make stuff for FE. No one else was interested.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Mister Fork on July 23, 2025, 10:59:54 AM
I thought hitech would use the mission editor to have automated AI bombing runs over countries in the main arenas - give us pilots something to shoot down. And have one bombing run that would hit your HQ. Easy to do really as I've played with the ME quite a bit - it's very intuitive.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: hitech on July 23, 2025, 01:22:05 PM
I thought hitech would use the mission editor to have automated AI bombing runs over countries in the main arenas - give us pilots something to shoot down. And have one bombing run that would hit your HQ. Easy to do really as I've played with the ME quite a bit - it's very intuitive.
This all exists right now, all that would need to happen is some one create the missions for each terrain, and then setup the mission schedule. This is how the western front arena currently runs.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 23, 2025, 01:56:30 PM
Ugh!!
It would be more better if it didn’t add to a gamg-bang
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 23, 2025, 02:16:41 PM
This all exists right now, all that would need to happen is some one create the missions for each terrain, and then setup the mission schedule. This is how the western front arena currently runs.
Dadtallica is interested in learning missions it sounds. I sent him some help vids I had made for Nef.
Between him, Mr.Fork, Mustang (who's docs I learned from) could form a ME cadre if they are interested.
My advice, for what it's worth would be for them to get with Nef and and run a couple of his previous FE event missions as learning. Then maybe make a couple of those and maybe offline.
Next I'd recommend them making a couple of the new missions for your staged mission tab. I think most all of those were broken anyway and that tech will be very close to what the Melee would be like with repeating schedules.
If it were me, I'd work my way up like that before testing on a Melee. and maybe just one terrain. Maybe one of the big ones that have trouble find fights, pick the most hated terrain and see if you can improve it with some missions. If it flops, they still hate the terrain, no loss. ;) If it helps, it might rehabilitate a terrain that otherwise causes log-offs.
$0.02.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 23, 2025, 02:19:48 PM
I imagine it as fun as killing C-47 drones in AW. Thrilling.
I’ll have one foot out the door
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: icepac on July 23, 2025, 02:27:35 PM
A lot of fun will be had scraping pursuers off your six by flying past a friendly.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 23, 2025, 02:29:55 PM
But Nef used to populate AI formations with walk-on players. So I guess the tech is close you could just take over an AI formation and then you can switch to gunner just like you do with a normal 3-buff formation now.
But at that point the AI isn't following the defined route any more automatically. The player has assumed PIC.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: uptown on July 23, 2025, 04:26:14 PM
This all exists right now, all that would need to happen is some one create the missions for each terrain, and then setup the mission schedule. This is how the western front arena currently runs.
:mad: That was classified! :noid
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: uptown on July 23, 2025, 04:37:09 PM
This mission subject has bothered me. Why are they so confusing and hard to figure out? What was wrong with the old way missions were set up? I wasn't here when AH2 went to AH3 so I'm lost.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 23, 2025, 05:13:30 PM
This mission subject has bothered me. Why are they so confusing and hard to figure out? What was wrong with the old way missions were set up? I wasn't here when AH2 went to AH3 so I'm lost.
Are you talking about the ad hoc missions currently in the Melee or the Staged Missions made for AI?
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: The Fugitive on July 23, 2025, 05:37:44 PM
This mission subject has bothered me. Why are they so confusing and hard to figure out? What was wrong with the old way missions were set up? I wasn't here when AH2 went to AH3 so I'm lost.
The player run missions are the same as they always were. A player picks a pick-up mission, selects the field to launch from, picks the planes, and ords for the planes, and most importantly picks which direction to launch from on the base :devil clicks ok and begs other players to join his/her mission.
What I think Hitech is saying much like the "off line missions" (when the game loads up the first screen instead of clicking "on line arenas" click the Off line missions) you can build some missions and have them loaded with the terrains (as the maps are different) and have these mission launch at certain times in the MA. Im guessing a bomber raid to a/both opposing countries HQ at say 8 central. While shooting them down most likely will not give you points, you can get some "action" as the AI in game are decent and if you dont get them, they WILL damage your HQ.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Mister Fork on July 24, 2025, 04:49:12 PM
Dadtallica is interested in learning missions it sounds. I sent him some help vids I had made for Nef.
Between him, Mr.Fork, Mustang (who's docs I learned from) could form a ME cadre if they are interested.
My advice, for what it's worth would be for them to get with Nef and and run a couple of his previous FE event missions as learning. Then maybe make a couple of those and maybe offline.
Next I'd recommend them making a couple of the new missions for your staged mission tab. I think most all of those were broken anyway and that tech will be very close to what the Melee would be like with repeating schedules.
If it were me, I'd work my way up like that before testing on a Melee. and maybe just one terrain. Maybe one of the big ones that have trouble find fights, pick the most hated terrain and see if you can improve it with some missions. If it flops, they still hate the terrain, no loss. ;) If it helps, it might rehabilitate a terrain that otherwise causes log-offs.
$0.02.
I don't mind creating missions that are all AI and leave each country at a set time. And they can run daily for each side. And we could keep it smallish - a flight of 3 bomber formations, maybe 5-6 B-26's each. Coming in at 12'000 ft. Spread out. Bombing runs are set for the same target every day for each side. And THEN, once a week, a higher altitude target run on enemy HQ's, B-17's and B-24s. 21'000ft. Easy peazy. Question is - if I do this, and load it for every country, will people engage them?
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 24, 2025, 05:10:52 PM
I'd give it a go!
Any way to add a couple of AI fighter escorts in case the human numbers are low?
If it isn't well received I would think it would be obvious and oh well but I think nothing would be lost trying it..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 24, 2025, 05:13:29 PM
hmmm,.... so every day at 7:30p I just grab a K4 and wait for that run to come in like receiving mail every morning.
And as I mentioned above,... a country gets gang-banged and then AI comes in and destroys their HQ too?
This is kinda grasping at straws.
A small group wants icon dar, the rest get stuck dealing with it, trying to get rid of it,... OR NOT.
I really don't think this is thought out well enough.
Its been sitting there for 20+ yrs unused for a reason. IMO :)
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Animl-AW on July 24, 2025, 05:15:21 PM
Oh. That would be difficult over and above the objection to AI in the MA (I am one of those against it in the MA). You would have to create an equal number of AI defenders against the mission in one or both opposing countries. A lot of moving parts. Posted this before I saw your edit
For instance, in the missions I helped Nefarious build for his Fortress Europe events sound very similar to what you'd be doing. If I recall it was a large bomber formation that followed a route to a target dropped and tried to return to a base.
There were no AI fighters either side.
There were no AI units defined for the other faction at all. Single sided mission.
Large AI bomber group formations. Nefarious would populate some of the bombers with players the rest were AI driven.
If a player's bomber was shot down during the mission, Nef could re-slot them to an available AI bomber and the player would take over as PIC.
Walk-on players could join the mission even if they had missed the original launch. Nef could slot them into an AI bomber in flight.
If Nef doesn't have copies of those FE missions they are still in the DB I assume and I'm sure HT could extract them for you. They are just marked to not show up i the normal mission listings by default.
I had also created multiple large bomber formation templates he could easily import and start with to save a lot of work. Hopefully he still has those formation templates or else you could extract them from one of the FE missions. There were both Allied and Axis formations that were historical to the best we were able to find info on at the time.
The basic idea behind FE if you never played one is a large AI\human bomber group gets spawned from a starting point. Human bomber pilots could either be slotted into that formation or just spawn a 3 group independently and tag along. (Note: the AI bombers were singletons. AI didn't support 3 groups so slotting a human into one gives him a single bomber. )
Human escort pilots spawned near by in fighters and escorted the AI\human formation and tried to keep as many alive as possible. Human interceptor pilots spawned and flew to shoot the AI\human bombers down before reaching target and then keep as many from reaching home as possible. I think he had some kind of scoring system based how many made it to drop and how many made it home.
The AI just become a rolling target to focus the activity in a certain area. The action is going to tend to seek and stick to the area around the formation creating a localized rolling furball on the move. the AI bomber formations were focus point for the fighting to be pulled to like gravity.
I think if they had continued they needed to be whittled down in scale. We wanted to start over the top to find the edge condition and start pruning back to find the optimal point for performance. Not sure were he stopped at.
But those sound a lot like what was being discussed. I think most participants had a lot of fun on those.
$0.02.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 25, 2025, 01:33:18 AM
If you never got the chance to play one Riftval has some great vids of some of the missions to give you a feel of the flavor.
:salute
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 25, 2025, 06:41:39 AM
I am all for it...
Not sure how the others feel but it can't hurt..
Thanks for the info CptTrips
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: eddiek on July 25, 2025, 10:20:47 AM
Fighter sweeps and bombing missions would be interesting. I was thinking more defensive in nature: Constant CAP's over airfields and CV groups, things like that. Perhaps, if it's even possible, AI GV's to respond when attackers spawn in at an undefended field, which tends to be their nature from what I've noticed over time. If they were pretty aggressive and decently skilled, it "might" steer those who like to go to undefended fields towards fighting against actual human players. Especially if the defenders were aggressive enough and skilled enough that the "lower risk" would be taking on other humans. My opinion, a lot of the strategy types and base capture players only want to make attempts on fields where there will be little if any resistance, at least until they hold all the cards and the upper hand. It's less about fighting and combat and more about score. Short of a massive influx of returning or new players who actually want to engage in combat, rather than avoiding it, measured amounts of AI inclusion might be what it takes to bring that something new to the game. Again, just my thoughts...............
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 25, 2025, 10:28:53 AM
I think AI would run more players out of the game. It would disturb the naturalness of the arena and players would absolutely hate getting owned by them. How do you determine AI skill level? Just too many variables to make everyone mad.
But again, Maps are what make or break the game. As we've consistently seen lower #s throughout the day with larger maps like Oceania, bowl MA, and CraterMA. As I've said many times, its about building #s mid day in order to have larger #s by primetime. If maps dont build #s with medium to large battles, the #s will stagnate.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Eagler on July 25, 2025, 10:38:20 AM
What eddiek said...
I think those who don't what AI don't want the embarrassment of it being better than they are..
I don't want to speak for for anyone but I think MNM and Thursday night war are the place to try this out as there are so many MA AI whiners here...
Eagler
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 25, 2025, 10:43:27 AM
I think AI would run more players out of the game. It would disturb the naturalness of the arena and players would absolutely hate getting owned by them.
Different people in this thread are making different suggestions.
IF the AI is limited to a bomber formation, that is very constrained.
Think of the bomber formation as flying airfield. Instead of capture, the goal it to stop before it reached the target. The formation become a focal point for both factions fighters to converge upon. Dogfights ensue.
The gunners of the formation are a mixture of human and AI gunner the way a field might have ack manned or AI or mixed.
This is just an airfield on the move.
If you are getting owned by AI bombers, then I suspect you are doing something wrong.
If you limited the trial to the most hated terrains anyway, what is the harm?
If you tried it on Oceana, Bowl, or Crater, and it failed, what was the harm?
If it made those hated terrains a lot more fun, then maybe you have a new tool in your belt to shape and focus dwindling numbers in one place so they can find each other to fight?
If also might cut down on runners. An interceptor can run on contact with the escorts if he wants to, but then the bombers make it to their target and there will be pain as a result.
The escorts can run away if they want, but then they get to watch the interceptors butcher their bomber formation and the mission fails and pain is not inflicted on the enemy.
Again, if you tried it on Oceana, Bowl, or Crater, what is the risk? Worst possible case is those terrain remain hated but you are already there.
$0.02.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: icepac on July 25, 2025, 10:48:34 AM
In warbirds, I used to attach as a gunner on the D3A AI squad that flew around.
What I found is that many players only went for AI bombers and avoided human contact.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 25, 2025, 10:51:10 AM
I think those who don't what AI don't want the embarrassment of it being better than they are..
I don't want to speak for for anyone but I think MNM and Thursday night war are the place to try this out as there are so many MA AI whiners here...
Eagler
Or maybe the AVA just runs Nef's Fortress Europe missions in repeating schedule whenever they aren't running Jeep Wars or something?
Those are AvA missions. They are already built. I suspect the area supports scheduled missions. IF HT says the Melee already has that capability, I'd assume the AvA does too.
The AvA isn't used for anything else except occasionally.
At least a good place to try some stuff out.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: JimmyD3 on July 25, 2025, 12:15:28 PM
Hitech has always been against AI in the MA. God forbid that should change. :old:
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: DmonSlyr on July 25, 2025, 01:24:49 PM
I think those who don't what AI don't want the embarrassment of it being better than they are..
I don't want to speak for for anyone but I think MNM and Thursday night war are the place to try this out as there are so many MA AI whiners here...
Eagler
Have you seen the AI in Match play? It could beat 90% of current players especially with the addition of humans jumping in. You have to learn how to beat it using its limitations against itself, but even still, if it flew Ki84s like those hurricanes, most are done for.
Or maybe the AVA just runs Nef's Fortress Europe missions in repeating schedule whenever they aren't running Jeep Wars or something?
Those are AvA missions. They are already built. I suspect the area supports scheduled missions. IF HT says the Melee already has that capability, I'd assume the AvA does too.
The AvA isn't used for anything else except occasionally.
At least a good place to try some stuff out.
I think AvA would be the best place to throw in some AI or atleast bomber type missions like you said. That would be the place to do it.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 25, 2025, 01:33:17 PM
Have you seen the AI in Match play? It could beat 90% of current players especially with the addition of humans jumping in. You have to learn how to beat it using its limitations against itself, but even still, if it flew Ki84s like those hurricanes, most are done for.
I suspect those AI are poorly tuned or no attempt at tuning at all.
When I was making the offline 4x4 missions I very quickly learned that different aircraft types need the AI parameters carefully tuned. What was OK for one AC made other complete unbalanced. The settings for the WWI stuff had to be very Different than the parameter for a Spitfire. Spitfire had to be tuned different than a Dora.
But I at least, was not ever mentioning AI fighters in this discussion. I think bomber formations don't have any of those problems.
This is basically a repeat of the "worth buying" thread. This community wants updates, upgrades and improvements but seem to overlook the fact that these thing cost money....real money. Technology and innovation and the staffing, the advertising ....you're probably talking 40 or 50 bucks a month. I see lots of complaints, but no one is forking over more than 15 bucks a month for the last couple of decades. It's all about the Benjamin's. :salute
I don't think so. There are plenty of titles using more advanced hardware and technology that don't charge $40/$50 per month. EA Game Pass alone is like $15 and provides access to hundreds of AAA titles that cost millions of dollars to make. War Thunder is more advanced than AH and is free, aside from the payware aircraft. Usually people buy a finished game and spend roughly $50 or $60 as a one-time fee and play the game for years with patches and updates. Until the new release comes out, and its another $50. Even if there was a new release every single year, that's only $50 per year, a lot more than you're paying for an AH subscription. And we certainly are not getting anything close to updates every year, let alone a new game. I understand the need for this to run on a wider range of hardware, but if you want to be a 2025 simulator/game and attract more players/subscriptions, you need to look and act like a 2025 game. Modern graphics updates, physics engine, perhaps a relexed realism and a full realism arena, etc.
Look at the game Squad on steam. Off World Industries created this game in like 2015, people paid a one time fee of $40, and now in 2025 it is basically a completely different game with the amount of updates and engines. They are far from a AAA studio.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: hazmatt on July 26, 2025, 10:12:52 AM
When I was making the offline 4x4 missions I very quickly learned that different aircraft types need the AI parameters carefully tuned. What was OK for one AC made other complete unbalanced. The settings for the WWI stuff had to be very Different than the parameter for a Spitfire. Spitfire had to be tuned different than a Dora.
Thanks for making those 4x4 missions. I found some of them to be very challenging and I used to have a bunch of fun playing those.
I'm curious about this "tuning" What variables could be changed?
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: CptTrips on July 26, 2025, 10:28:02 AM
Thanks for making those 4x4 missions. I found some of them to be very challenging and I used to have a bunch of fun playing those.
I'm curious about this "tuning" What variables could be changed?
Well, it's been 6 years. My memory is a bit fuzzy.
The are parameters I'm speaking of are in the mission file. I can't remember if they are in arena config. But as I said, they really need to be custom for each plane type. On my 4x4 I believe I tested every pairing and tweaked them to get a behavior that seem reasonable to me. YMMV.
I can't remember all the params off hand, but stuff like how many max G to allow for that AI. I think the default was like 6G.
Well, a WWI plane is not going to be pulling 6G. The wings would usually come off at what 4G? 3G?
A B-17 is not likely to pull 6G turns all day. Etc.
I remember tuning the I-16? Way down because it was a UFO.
I'm would bet a dollar that no attempt at tuning was made for match plane. I bet they are ally running the default settings. I never spent time in there so that is a guess but sounds consistent with reports I've heard.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: uptown on July 26, 2025, 11:52:41 AM
I don't think so. There are plenty of titles using more advanced hardware and technology that don't charge $40/$50 per month. EA Game Pass alone is like $15 and provides access to hundreds of AAA titles that cost millions of dollars to make. War Thunder is more advanced than AH and is free, aside from the payware aircraft. Usually people buy a finished game and spend roughly $50 or $60 as a one-time fee and play the game for years with patches and updates. Until the new release comes out, and its another $50. Even if there was a new release every single year, that's only $50 per year, a lot more than you're paying for an AH subscription. And we certainly are not getting anything close to updates every year, let alone a new game. I understand the need for this to run on a wider range of hardware, but if you want to be a 2025 simulator/game and attract more players/subscriptions, you need to look and act like a 2025 game. Modern graphics updates, physics engine, perhaps a relexed realism and a full realism arena, etc.
Look at the game Squad on steam. Off World Industries created this game in like 2015, people paid a one time fee of $40, and now in 2025 it is basically a completely different game with the amount of updates and engines. They are far from a AAA studio.
Thank you for the reply. You have some good points. I have to admit I've never played War Thunder. I was thinking something more in line with DCS or Microsoft flight sim. All those titles we've mentioned have pretty large budgets with a board of directors and shareholders. AcesHigh is pretty much a dude in Texas and the players now. 20yrs ago there would be 600+ players on and you to wait to get in the arena. I don't know what happened but 15 bucks a month won't get you much these days. :salute
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: hazmatt on July 26, 2025, 05:35:10 PM
I don't know what happened but 15 bucks a month won't get you much these days...
Back in the day it seems everything was subscription based. I remember playing Everquest, AH, World of Warcraft etc and they were all monthly subscriptions, but I don't think that's the norm anymore.
I think the revenue model has changed overall with most games offering something for free or for a 1 time purchase and/or in game transactions. I know you can fly some stuff in DCS for free, you can fly lots of stuff in WT for free, and you can get into IL for less then a one time purchase of less then $20.
I think most younger people are gonna go for the games with the FTP stuff or one time purchase. For example, I have 3 kids that I can play Roblox, Minecraft, World of Warcraft, War Thunder, and IL2 with at $0 cost for me per month. It's because all of them offer some level of FTP or one time purchase. If we were to play AH3 together that would be $60 a month. Sure, it's on $2 a day but it's also $720 per year which is more then I spend on all the other games combined in a year.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: AKIron on July 26, 2025, 06:30:37 PM
Like any other time spent, gaming with your kids or grandkids is fleeting. As it should be, they will move on. Enjoy it when you can. Memories made will linger.
Title: Re: State of the Union Address?
Post by: Meatwad on July 26, 2025, 07:24:30 PM
Just proves a non FTP sub model is going to be the death of games