General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 06:47:56 PM
Title: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 06:47:56 PM
In a recent thread there was, for a time, a discussion regarding the price of civilized society. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, it was closed, due to the usual suspect(s).
As far as taxation, and, actually, both economics and government are concerned, my philosophy on them comes from Frederic Bastiat, Milton Freidman, Thomas Sowell, and Arthur Laffer. They've been proven reliable and correct for decades, or, in the case of Bastiat, damned near two centuries. And, yeah, they're all (except Bastiat, having lived long before video) prominently featured in videos from various sources on youtube. If you're going to use that as a means to attempt to refute their positions, that only serves to prove the weakness of your claims.
This thread, too, will almost certainly be locked, probably in short order.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on July 31, 2025, 07:03:18 PM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: nopoop on July 31, 2025, 07:05:02 PM
:aok
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: nopoop on July 31, 2025, 07:15:13 PM
Everything I own is paid for. I pay no income tax Quite comfortable. Elimination of property would be great. Not gonna happen...
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Devil 505 on July 31, 2025, 08:11:34 PM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on July 31, 2025, 08:18:48 PM
Milton Friedman:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Tcw3Z3vMqWw
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:27:47 PM
Yep, and through using tariffs as a negotiating tool, Trump got the majority of nations to reduce their tariffs on our goods.
I never said any of those I mentioned was perfect, or infallible. Sowell, who was a student and friend of Friedman, admitted recently that Trump was correct in his use of tariffs as a negotiating tool. It's neither ideal, nor long term, but it is a useful tool.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:35:24 PM
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
If only your taxes were getting used for schools (especially schools that educate) roads, etc. They're not. Your taxes are being laundered, and sent to those very accounts of the very people you despise.
If your taxes were being used for what you desire, the U.S. would rank #1 in the world in education, rather than being outside the top 5, or even top 10. A pothole would be a rare sight. And the shipyards wouldn't be 5-7 years behind in producing new ships for the Navy. Alas, none of those things are happening. And so long as we continue to fork over hundreds of billions of dollars every year, without accountability, that will remain true.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Devil 505 on July 31, 2025, 08:38:38 PM
At least some of that money goes where I want it to through taxes instead of none of it getting there by corporate means.
Consider it the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:47:37 PM
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
Absolutely
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on July 31, 2025, 10:01:07 PM
Yep, and through using tariffs as a negotiating tool, Trump got the majority of nations to reduce their tariffs on our goods.
I never said any of those I mentioned was perfect, or infallible. Sowell, who was a student and friend of Friedman, admitted recently that Trump was correct in his use of tariffs as a negotiating tool. It's neither ideal, nor long term, but it is a useful tool.
A negotiating tool? I think not. Showing everyone who the "big man on campus" is.... Read the EU deal in detail... worthless platitudes with little effect. Punishing Canada in the hope they apply to join the Union.... :rofl
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on July 31, 2025, 10:05:26 PM
In a recent thread there was, for a time, a discussion regarding the price of civilized society. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, it was closed, due to the usual suspect(s).
As far as taxation, and, actually, both economics and government are concerned, my philosophy on them comes from Frederic Bastiat, Milton Freidman, Thomas Sowell, and Arthur Laffer. They've been proven reliable and correct for decades, or, in the case of Bastiat, damned near two centuries. And, yeah, they're all (except Bastiat, having lived long before video) prominently featured in videos from various sources on youtube. If you're going to use that as a means to attempt to refute their positions, that only serves to prove the weakness of your claims.
This thread, too, will almost certainly be locked, probably in short order.
+1
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 09:20:47 AM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
They're not going to eliminate taxes on property. Far too many greedy people have their face buried in that trough, and most of what has been collected has been wasted. Hell, in many places, your property taxes have been used to by pro sports teams new venues, which the majority of tax payers can't even afford to go to, even though many run up stupid levels of debt to go anyway.
Lowering interest rates will be a massive stimulation, and, most importantly maybe, it will make it somewhat more possible for people to buy themselves an actual home. Many do not get what actual home ownership does to the thought process of people. At least, normal people.
Further, exorbitant interest rates do nothing to control inflation. Inflation is driven by government spending, government debt, and government printing of money it doesn't have.
And yeah, only a minuscule number of the people in government give a damn about what is best for the Republic or the citizens.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 10:57:44 AM
5% is not an "exorbitant interest rates"..
An economy is not healthy if it can't handle that...
Lowering it down to what 2%?
It's why the market is screwed now...it'll allowed the donutheads to artificially raise prices because joe 6 pack could " afford the monthly payment "...
Lowering it again now will raise prices again for the same reason and not just homes but every freaking thing..
Some of us aren't leveraged to the limit with numerous maxed out credit cards or loans..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 01:31:34 PM
An economy is not healthy if it can't handle that...
Lowering it down to what 2%?
It's why the market is screwed now...it'll allowed the donutheads to artificially raise prices because joe 6 pack could " afford the monthly payment "...
Lowering it again now will raise prices again for the same reason and not just homes but every freaking thing..
Some of us aren't leveraged to the limit with numerous maxed out credit cards or loans..
Eagler
Again, the interest rate doesn't drive inflation. If the interest rate drove inflation, then the 3% interest rate during the first Trump administration would have caused 9% inflation. It didn't. The first Trump administration had 3% inflation. If interest rates resolved inflation, then the Biden administration wouldn't have seen 9% or high inflation. But it did, despite 5%+ interest rates. They raised the interest rates six times, and not once did the inflation rate drop in return.
Government debt, government spending, and government printing more money, despite having nothing to back it with drives inflation. Government spending floods the market with money, driving up prices. Government debt, and the government printing money, reduces the value of the money.
A 15 year mortgage should never have an interest rate of more than 2-1/2% or 3%. Not for anyone with a decent credit rating and a reasonable debt:income ratio.
The Federal Reserve setting the interest rate is just another method of politicians trying to control the market with government power. The Federal Reserve shouldn't even exist. Thee market should determine the interest rate. Government interference has never helped the economy. Never. The market will correct itself, and rather quickly, and properly, without government interference.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 02:58:20 PM
Sure but lower interest rates inspire the government to print and spend more money they don't have..
A higher interest rate makes our debt more attractive for others to buy so we as a nation can continue to live like spoiled fat Americans living on extended credit..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 03:53:22 PM
Sure but lower interest rates inspire the government to print and spend more money they don't have..
A higher interest rate makes our debt more attractive for others to buy so we as a nation can continue to live like spoiled fat Americans living on extended credit..
Eagler
No, interest rates have no influence on the government printing and spending money they don't have. Congress doesn't care in the least about the interest rate on money it borrows.
The interest rate the Federal Reserve sets doesn't govern foreign purchase of debt.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Shuffler on August 01, 2025, 04:32:54 PM
Easy to tell who is the business man and who just works for the man. :)
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 04:35:52 PM
No, interest rates have no influence on the government printing and spending money they don't have. Congress doesn't care in the least about the interest rate on money it borrows.
The interest rate the Federal Reserve sets doesn't govern foreign purchase of debt.
While you represent yourself as a PhD in economics, it's much simpler. If someone convinces the FED that the TB rate ought to be 2% (down from 4.25%) what would motivate large international investors to finance the US debt if they can get a better rate from any other developed nation.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 05:03:43 PM
While you represent yourself as a PhD in economics, it's much simpler. If someone convinces the FED that the TB rate ought to be 2% (down from 4.25%) what would motivate large international investors to finance the US debt if they can get a better rate from any other developed nation.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
I never claimed to have any degree in economics.
The Federal Reserve shouldn't exist. And the U.S. should be getting out of debt, not trying to finance more debt. The debt is causing inflation. Inflation is a defacto tax on the middle class and poor.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 05:38:38 PM
The Federal Reserve shouldn't exist. And the U.S. should be getting out of debt, not trying to finance more debt. The debt is causing inflation. Inflation is a defacto tax on the middle class and poor.
Every country needs a central bank that operates independently of the Goverment.
But as to the USA's national debt, we agree. The US has a national debt of roughly $100,000 for every man, woman and child.
Hate to mention it but a large recently passed bill will reportedly increase that debt by a mere $3.4 trillion.
We have zero need for a "central bank" that attempts to set fiscal policy for the nation. Especially not one controlled by politicians. The Federal Reserve has never been a positive influence on the nation. And the Federal Reserve is not even remotely independent of the government or politics, it is far more an agent of the deep state bureaucracy. Allow the market to set the interest rate, it will always self correct within a fiscal quarter, two at the most. The dollar should be on a gold or silver standard. Government interference in the market has been a negative more than 75% of the time, and never truly a positive.
There's neither need nor excuse for the government debt. It's what happens, as Bastiat warned, when people discover they can vote themselves largesse from the government coffers. Government is in many ways an illusion where some believe they can live at the expense of others. The federal government should be shrunk by 75%, and the spending by the same or more. It might fit within the Constitution then.
I was never in favor of that bill. There was much of it I do not like at all. There are few people, and no groups I agree with on everything. Nor do I believe I am correct all the time.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 06:09:11 PM
deep state bureaucracy.
Wow :rolleyes: I think this coversation is over. My paranoia level is far too low to discuss hidden bad guys.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 06:12:24 PM
We just hang the Gaddafi threat over them and they'll continue to use the bloated dollar until that threat is neutralized one way or another..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 02, 2025, 06:41:13 AM
This..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 08:53:46 AM
Wow :rolleyes: I think this coversation is over. My paranoia level is far too low to discuss hidden bad guys.
If you aren't aware of Woodrow Wilson's administrative bureaucracy of experts, and the fact that there is, indeed, a massive element of bureaucracy deeply and firmly embedded in the federal government, accountable to no one, then, yeah, this conversation is likely over.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 02, 2025, 08:55:26 AM
Well first one must understand how the economy works, obviously some do not. Shocking, I know
I did notice hypocritical references that some are not allowed to speak, yet my thread is set to malfunction.
Obviously its not AH but MH
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 02, 2025, 12:07:09 PM
I think yall are missing this main understanding. A government is only as powerful as its businesses that fund it. If you rob your business through fear of big powerful business, than you inevitably reduce the potential tax revenue overall. Many countries have not become large due to this. Business ownership is crucial. Investment is crucial. Remember that government is 150x more powerful than any one business. Its their responsibility not to accept bribes or become corrupted by business and its also their job to enforce ethical business standards and laws to prevent gangs and business gangs. Generally, a single business cannot destroy a nation. A single government can, whether by military or swipes of the pen affecting millions of businesses and their jobs at once.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 01:08:32 PM
The government takes taxes in the form of extortion and coercion, under duress. Of course, so long as businesses are able to pass the cost of taxes levied on to the consumer, they will. The government, as the Founding Fathers warned us, has far outgrown where it should be. And the citizens have not only allowed it, but facilitated and encouraged it.
Once again, as Bastiat said, "the American experiment will last only until the people discover they can vote themselves largess from the public coffers." That's what happened. The people, at least some of them, continually vote themselves largess from the public coffers by choosing to vote for people who will give it to them. The illusion that people can live at the expense of others is still widely held.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 02, 2025, 01:11:03 PM
How about them job numbers lol...
It's all a corrupt joke and we are the punch line..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 06:45:06 PM
It's all a corrupt joke and we are the punch line..
Eagler
The fact that the job reports have been falsified several times, and positions such as the "senate parliamentarian" exist, and are used to intentionally obstruct, obfuscate, and mislead, is proof positive that the "deep state bureaucracy" absolutely exists.
More comes to light daily.
Yep, the citizens are the butt of the joke.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: AKIron on August 02, 2025, 10:05:55 PM
When the expected minimum wage is $20/hr there will be fewer jobs. Do I need to explain why?
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 02, 2025, 10:35:04 PM
DELUSIONAL
Will go on forever, until a non tribe member replies.
Flakes
So deserving of Ignore list that just grew by 4 Intolerable nonsense
epstein
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 03, 2025, 07:35:39 AM
Actual intelligence not just moving lying lips we have today..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: JimmyD3 on August 04, 2025, 07:56:16 AM
Morgan Freeman seems to have a good amount of "common sense", and hasn't been afraid to share it when asked. Thomas Sowell is in a class all of his own, brilliant and humble.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 04, 2025, 07:11:10 PM
Actual intelligence not just moving lying lips we have today..
Eagler
What Sowell has is wisdom. Combined with intelligence, honor, and integrity. Which is why he refuses to work for any length of time in government. But it was hilarious to watch him utterly destroy some of DC's "finest" over the years.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: RUSH1 on August 04, 2025, 08:40:07 PM
Say what you want about Liddy, but he was loyal, and intelligent. And he was correct about a lot of stuff. Important stuff.
My dog is loyal. Liddy was a burglar "mastermind" and a nut case. You have to stretch to say that he was right about anything, except maybe how to kill someone by shoving a pencil up his nose.
Unbelievable that some people admire him. You, Savge? I can't grasp that.
- oldman
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 05, 2025, 06:37:01 AM
What do you want from an FBI agent? :banana:
Never said I admire him..but there are much worse in much higher more powerful positions..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: icepac on August 05, 2025, 11:50:25 AM
I raced his corvette on I66 eastbound at 3:45am one. I came off the dulles access road and saw a corvette and stepped on the gas of my 300zx turbo and was ready to pass him at 120mph and, when I drew up next to him, I was suddenly not passing him but watching him pull away.
License plate said "H20gate".
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 06, 2025, 06:08:04 PM
My dog is loyal. Liddy was a burglar "mastermind" and a nut case. You have to stretch to say that he was right about anything, except maybe how to kill someone by shoving a pencil up his nose.
Unbelievable that some people admire him. You, Savge? I can't grasp that.
- oldman
Some of us see "watergate" for what it really was. One of the most overblown bogus political "scandals" of the last 200-250 years. If you don't understand far, far worse has been done, and gotten away with, with a ton of help from the media, in the last 50 years, I guess you can't grasp it.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: RUSH1 on August 06, 2025, 06:17:14 PM
Some of us see "watergate" for what it really was. One of the most overblown bogus political "scandals" of the last 200-250 years. If you don't understand far, far worse has been done, and gotten away with, with a ton of help from the media, in the last 50 years, I guess you can't grasp it.
Watergate should already, but will look like a jaywalking citation in the near future.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Oldman731 on August 06, 2025, 08:36:55 PM
Some of us see "watergate" for what it really was. One of the most overblown bogus political "scandals" of the last 200-250 years. If you don't understand far, far worse has been done, and gotten away with, with a ton of help from the media, in the last 50 years, I guess you can't grasp it.
I regret my comment, Savge, I try to avoid politics here, and you're my friend. I just hated Nixxon and his crowd so much that I react when the topic comes up. Sorry! I don't want to know what Watergate really was.
- oldman
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 07, 2025, 07:26:32 AM
PSA for the day...
Kennedy stole the election from Nixon
You're welcome :aok
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2025, 07:31:14 AM
Nixon was another example of many of the presidents Democrats have been successfully overthrown over the years and they've attempted many more but failed. And the one Democrat who told Americans to their faces there was a communist establishment conspiracy, was killed for it. Imagine that.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 08:29:31 AM
I regret my comment, Savge, I try to avoid politics here, and you're my friend. I just hated Nixxon and his crowd so much that I react when the topic comes up. Sorry! I don't want to know what Watergate really was.
- oldman
Because some of us hold on to unwritten rules to never speak politics, income and sex in social circles, because it ruins friendships that would otherwise thrive.
This whole watergate convo is a deflection to minimize the current. They are not even in the same ball park. What-a-bout does not work in court. Blanket answers are nonsense.
I created the music thread as an alternative to debating game or politics. Its inclusive subject that most anyone can, and have, get onboard with. I’ve never seen music ruin friendships. People I disagree with on those subjects can converse on a subject most have in common. Things can be civil. There are things we agree on. Entertainment has always been a break from negative. The game is entertainment, and should be separate from real life negatives. If one obsessed with negatives they become bitter and toxic.
Same with union battles where I worked. Our union and electricians union battled iver contracts of who would do what. Bith trying to take each others work. The suits made decisions that pitted the members against each other. People got beat up, passions were way too high and dangerous. I was placed on the front line to deal with it. It was very ugly. The other union was sabotaging our work to get the contract back we took.
Ling story shorter, it came to a climax. Finally I asked that union workers “why are you here?”. Yhey came up with all these union political responses. I said “no that’s not why you are here”. You are here to feed your family. Your suits are trying to take food out of my families mouth, our suits are doing the same to you. Why are we fighting the suits decisions? Lets them fight their own battles in court. We all need to feed our families, we are best working together before all unions are booted. Now no one feeds their families. This cannot continue. The suits count money and watch tv, while we scar each other. A lot of blank faces. One guy on their side said “he’s right, he needs to feed his family too.
In the end, until I left, I would have our crew do things to make the other unions job easier, and they dud the same for me. The suits make our decisions force them to fight it out. Many of us ended up as friends. If you don’t like the decisions your BA makes vote them out. Why should you go home angry and full of hate every day.
Did the suits like what I did? Nope. But we all ned to feed our families and work together. We made our lives easier, not warring their divisions.
Point being, there is no point in hating each other over divisions the suits make and want. I don’t want to take food out of my new friend’s family mouths. If that is winning count me out. We’ll keep the contract on merit, not hateful battles of nonsense the suits invent.
Music is something we can all get onboard with. Politics ruin otherwise thriving friendships. I don’t want to know their politics, income or sex. I don’t want it to ruin friendships. Live your life, feed your family. Let the suits fight their own divisions, or vote them out, its that easy.
Posting politics here only pushes friends away, it solves absolutely NOTHING. As we get older and friends passing its nit wise to push the remaining away. Isolation just breeds dark imaginings.
Even if we can’t solve this everywhere, we can solve it here in a place that makes us all happy. Why destroy our sanctuary?
Music is inclusive across all languages. Learn to be friends again. Life is way too short to settle for one minute of nonsense. Play your game, feed your family, let the suits fight their own battles. Put that sht down.
What happened before will never excuse current times, not now, nor in 10 yrs.
Some just love spreading hate, making people angry, these are vexations to the spirit. Don’t hand them success as reward. Appreciate each other anyway.
I refuse to be anyone’s minion. I just hate hate and and toxic misinformation.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 07, 2025, 08:38:24 AM
The fact that these discussions can separate us who have this hobby in common shows they are successful in diverting our frustration from their poor actions and decisions with a healthy helping of corruption and have us fighting between ourselves instead of the actual problem which is all of them...the uniparty
Now back to your favorite music videos...lol
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: AKIron on August 07, 2025, 08:59:53 AM
It'll all pan out in the end.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 09:05:30 AM
The fact that these discussions can separate us who have this hobby in common shows they are successful in diverting our frustration from their poor actions and decisions with a healthy helping of corruption and have us fighting between ourselves instead of the actual problem which is all of them...the uniparty
Now back to your favorite music videos...lol
Eagler
Pay attention to the last 6-7 vids
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 07, 2025, 10:44:48 AM
Here's an example of what a deep state cabal and corruption looks like all connected and it's all being investigated and corraled. Now can you see why they are so scared? Do followers really understand what their party actually is?
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 01:24:40 PM
I don’t look at “evidence”, its not vetted or corroborated. Most just spark imagination to run unleashed.
Remember, when War of the Worlds was aired on radio many people jumped out windows to commit suicide, because they believed it was true. It was simply a play.
I see what I see with my own eyes.
Propaganda is designed to take your eye off the bouncing ball. It’s usually projection. Pat attention to whats before your eyes. Beware of anyone in convincing mode, they have agenda.
I can’t dictate how others waste time on earth, not my place, but I can feel sorry for what they do to their spirit. In the end, all the controversy will mean nothing.
Relax, breathe
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: AKIron on August 07, 2025, 02:07:04 PM
I don’t look at “evidence”, its not vetted or corroborated. Most just spark imagination to run unleashed.
Remember, when War of the Worlds was aired on radio many people jumped out windows to commit suicide, because they believed it was true. It was simply a play.
You know that's not true right? "Many" people did not commit suicide. Maybe a little more "vetting" is in order.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 05:02:28 PM
I regret my comment, Savge, I try to avoid politics here, and you're my friend. I just hated Nixxon and his crowd so much that I react when the topic comes up. Sorry! I don't want to know what Watergate really was.
- oldman
I'm not offended. It didn't affect our friendship. I have not allowed myself to be trained to hate people just because I disagree with them.
The thing is, the media told you to hate Nixon. The media is telling you to hate Trump.
I'm not in love with either one. But I have looked carefully at the results of the policies and votes of the occupants of the white house and the capital, without media influenced jaundice. Regardless of whether or not I like the person, and regardless of whether or not the media likes them, I pay attention to what they did.
And I don't like ALL of what ANYONE did, or voted for. Not Eisenhower, not Kennedy, not Nixon, not Reagan, not Bush 1 or 2, not Trump, either. There's a ton of what they did I don't like, and I don't hesitate to say so.
Nixon was wrong on the EPA, wrong on the DEA, wrong on price controls, and that's the short list.
You SHOULD know what Watergate REALLY was. Everyone should see all of it for what it is. That, and the crap Cronkite spewed about the Tet Offensive were what put the nail in the coffin on the media for me. That's when I learned the media had their own agenda, just like the government. And it ain't the truth, your best interest, my best interest, or the best interest of the Republic.
See, I want to know the truth, whether it makes me laugh, makes me cry, hurts my feelings, pisses me off, or makes me happy. Whether it proves me right, or proves me wrong. Truth, facts, logic, and reason. Without them, doom is the certain outcome.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 06:55:49 PM
Cable news has proven to be detrimental. 24/7 air time to fill instead of 15 minute on local tv. They will talk about a subject for days 24/7. No matter what side of the fence it is a type of brainwashing. Overkill on steroids. It never gives the viewer time to think for themselves and find balance. I think its unhealthy.
Small doses only.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: RUSH1 on August 07, 2025, 07:48:04 PM
Cable news has proven to be detrimental. 24/7 air time to fill instead of 15 minute on local tv. They will talk about a subject for days 24/7. No matter what side of the fence it is a type of brainwashing. Overkill on steroids. It never gives the viewer time to think for themselves and find balance. I think its unhealthy.
Small doses only.
Yet your side hates social media (X at the top) and talk radio. MSM was your best bet as your side controlled 90% of it, therefore, the narrative. Did you never notice this?
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 08:21:46 PM
Yet your side hates social media (X at the top) and talk radio. MSM was your best bet as your side controlled 90% of it, therefore, the narrative. Did you never notice this?
Disagree.
One station on your side has more viewers than 2-3 of those stations on the left combined. "You" have the biggest audience no matter who controls what.
In reality, to my point, the above matters not. Every single one of them do it on both sides. They HAVE to because they are a 24/7 format, there is no way around it. What is aired varies from station to station. How one selects what they watch, now days is doctor shopping on both sides. I don't watch any one station, I watch several to get a more concise feel of what's really going on. BBS, NPR are also options. However, they change up their broadcasting that's it's not one subject all day long like subliminal messaging.
My side? I have no damn side. I simply point out misinformation, it's toxic to friendships. Just because the scale is out of balance doesn't mean I have a side. I'm for anyone who doesn't screw up my best interest, health and finances. If I find flaws that's not on me.
I am IATSE Union of the arts. "Your side" doesn't like the arts and always defunds them. That affects my wallet and survival/retirement. I should not vote against my own best interest. If 'Your side" doesn't screw me I'll wave that flag with you on certain issues. That's how independents work, issue by issue. There are SOME things you are against that I am also against, how it's executed matters. I don't want to see anyone experience undue suffering. We have ONE life, there is no reset. why screw up someone's only life out of hastiness and opinions? The art of "Cause no harm".
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 07, 2025, 08:54:04 PM
People are leaving that side of the media because it has consistently lied to them. After a while, even stupid people figure things out. The majority of the main stream malignancy has destroyed itself, and has no one to blame other than those it sees when it looks in the mirror.
And I don't watch ANY of it. I have little more use for Fox than PMSDNC or CNN. But outright and knowingly LIE, and tell half the country that they're evil and you hate them, and they'll reciprocate.
Nothing personal, I have no problem with people making a living. But it was NEVER the place of the GOVERNMENT to fund "arts", regardless of who likes it. The Constitution is abundantly clear about it, too. You need only read it as written, and in the context of when it was written, who wrote it, who signed off on it, and what they wrote, abundantly, at the time.
I have no problem with the arts. However, the arts are a LUXURY, the government was never supposed to levy taxes to fund luxuries. Taxes are literally extortion, and coercion, under duress. The government should never have funded it to begin with. And they should never have become a "charity", dispensing entitlements. The men who fought to found the Republic, and wrote the Founding Documents, warned us strenuously and repeatedly against what we have. For good reason. A government big enough and powerful enough to give you everything you want is also a government big enough and powerful enough to take everything from you. Jefferson said "to force a man to support that which he abhors is sinful and tyrannical" and "if we can prevent the government from taking bread from the table of labor, under the pretense of taking care of them, the people cannot help but to become happy."
Those of us who support extremely small government realize that if the government didn't steal so much money, and exert so much undue control over thing it should never be involved with in the first place, it would have no control over so much that so many disagree on and are divided by. The government is the source of most of the problems, and more government with more power is not the solution.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 09:16:02 PM
People are leaving that side of the media because it has consistently lied to them. After a while, even stupid people figure things out. The majority of the main stream malignancy has destroyed itself, and has no one to blame other than those it sees when it looks in the mirror.
And I don't watch ANY of it. I have little more use for Fox than PMSDNC or CNN. But outright and knowingly LIE, and tell half the country that they're evil and you hate them, and they'll reciprocate.
Nothing personal, I have no problem with people making a living. But it was NEVER the place of the GOVERNMENT to fund "arts", regardless of who likes it. The Constitution is abundantly clear about it, too. You need only read it as written, and in the context of when it was written, who wrote it, who signed off on it, and what they wrote, abundantly, at the time.
I have no problem with the arts. However, the arts are a LUXURY, the government was never supposed to levy taxes to fund luxuries. Taxes are literally extortion, and coercion, under duress. The government should never have funded it to begin with. And they should never have become a "charity", dispensing entitlements. The men who fought to found the Republic, and wrote the Founding Documents, warned us strenuously and repeatedly against what we have. For good reason. A government big enough and powerful enough to give you everything you want is also a government big enough and powerful enough to take everything from you. Jefferson said "to force a man to support that which he abhors is sinful and tyrannical" and "if we can prevent the government from taking bread from the table of labor, under the pretense of taking care of them, the people cannot help but to become happy."
Those of us who support extremely small government realize that if the government didn't steal so much money, and exert so much undue control over thing it should never be involved with in the first place, it would have no control over so much that so many disagree on and are divided by. The government is the source of most of the problems, and more government with more power is not the solution.
Umm you should read up on why Gov funded the arts during world wars. It was an escape and it's healthy to have escapes during wars and bad times. You basically just proved my point. Gov shouldn't be funding the rich with tax scams off the backs of the poor. That is most ridiculous of all. Trickle down is a myth that has never once happened, they just buy their shares back. Prove me wrong
If you're gonna call something a lie you best have the ammo to prove it. It's projection. Fox was sued for and paid fines of $780 million for lying to viewers about elections.. so be careful, you're not spot on there. Lets not get into Lie count, you will lose. Fox is registered withe FCC as a Entertainment channel to avoid FCC News casting rules, they simply call all the lies "opinion"
Not going to debate anymore policies. Most of it is mere hear-say.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 07, 2025, 09:57:02 PM
A big reason Fox has the most viewers is because on all cable networks I've seen, Fox is always in the free bundle and MSNBC is only in paid bundles. They have the most viewers, however a minority base of 25-34%. Fox pops up in my Recent list even though I have removed it from my channel list. A thumb is on the scale.
Eww yuck I need a shower
these convos aren't worth my time.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 07, 2025, 10:35:45 PM
Umm you should read up on why Gov funded the arts during world wars. It was an escape and it's healthy to have escapes during wars and bad times. You basically just proved my point. Gov shouldn't be funding the rich with tax scams off the backs of the poor. That is most ridiculous of all. Trickle down is a myth that has never once happened, they just buy their shares back. Prove me wrong
If you're gonna call something a lie you best have the ammo to prove it. It's projection. Fox was sued for and paid fines of $780 million for lying to viewers about elections.. so be careful, you're not spot on there. Lets not get into Lie count, you will lose. Fox is registered withe FCC as a Entertainment channel to avoid FCC News casting rules, they simply call all the lies "opinion"
Not going to debate anymore policies. Most of it is mere hear-say.
"Trickle down" is a lie, created by the leftists.
The Laffer curve on tax rates vs. revenue is a proven fact.
The top 50% of income earners pay 90% of the tax revenue, the top 10% pay 50% of the tax revenue.
The Trump tax cuts of 2017 set revenue records through 2021, so, more revenue was paid in at lower tax rates, again proving the Laffer curve. Further, income and wealth growth during the first Trump administration was greater for the working middle class than for the "wealthy", for the first time in decades.
The government funded a lot of stuff during the world wars, and the depression. The vast majority of it was proven to do more harm to the economy, and to extend the economic hard times. Considering the poor and working middle class you speak of have little time or money for the arts, funding them did practically nothing for the people you claim it helped.
You can call facts and evidence "hearsay" all you want. Ignoring it doesn't make it disappear. you can ignore reality all you want, the consequences of doing so will not be ignored.
CNN and PMSDNC are free on every basic cable and satellite package I have ever seen. Just like FOX, SEEBS, ABC, and NBC. I never get my news there anyway. Turns out PBS and NPR are both staffed by 90% democrats. The CEO of PBS pretty much admitted her bias publicly.
For a conversation not worth your time, you seem to involve yourself, and be quite verbose........