General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 06:47:56 PM
Title: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 06:47:56 PM
In a recent thread there was, for a time, a discussion regarding the price of civilized society. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, it was closed, due to the usual suspect(s).
As far as taxation, and, actually, both economics and government are concerned, my philosophy on them comes from Frederic Bastiat, Milton Freidman, Thomas Sowell, and Arthur Laffer. They've been proven reliable and correct for decades, or, in the case of Bastiat, damned near two centuries. And, yeah, they're all (except Bastiat, having lived long before video) prominently featured in videos from various sources on youtube. If you're going to use that as a means to attempt to refute their positions, that only serves to prove the weakness of your claims.
This thread, too, will almost certainly be locked, probably in short order.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on July 31, 2025, 07:03:18 PM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: nopoop on July 31, 2025, 07:05:02 PM
:aok
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: nopoop on July 31, 2025, 07:15:13 PM
Everything I own is paid for. I pay no income tax Quite comfortable. Elimination of property would be great. Not gonna happen...
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Devil 505 on July 31, 2025, 08:11:34 PM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on July 31, 2025, 08:18:48 PM
Milton Friedman:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Tcw3Z3vMqWw
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:27:47 PM
Yep, and through using tariffs as a negotiating tool, Trump got the majority of nations to reduce their tariffs on our goods.
I never said any of those I mentioned was perfect, or infallible. Sowell, who was a student and friend of Friedman, admitted recently that Trump was correct in his use of tariffs as a negotiating tool. It's neither ideal, nor long term, but it is a useful tool.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:35:24 PM
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
If only your taxes were getting used for schools (especially schools that educate) roads, etc. They're not. Your taxes are being laundered, and sent to those very accounts of the very people you despise.
If your taxes were being used for what you desire, the U.S. would rank #1 in the world in education, rather than being outside the top 5, or even top 10. A pothole would be a rare sight. And the shipyards wouldn't be 5-7 years behind in producing new ships for the Navy. Alas, none of those things are happening. And so long as we continue to fork over hundreds of billions of dollars every year, without accountability, that will remain true.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Devil 505 on July 31, 2025, 08:38:38 PM
At least some of that money goes where I want it to through taxes instead of none of it getting there by corporate means.
Consider it the lesser of two evils.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on July 31, 2025, 08:47:37 PM
I think you're missing the bigger "they" which is creating the bulk of the problems with green staying in our pockets.
While I think we'd agree specifically on property taxes, I'm much more in favor of paying higher taxes in general over getting price gouged so a stock price can increase two fold again this quarter.
Better that my money gets used for schools, road maintenance, or a new submarine instead of going to a Swiss bank account or some rich pedophile's private island sex dungeon resort.
Absolutely
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on July 31, 2025, 10:01:07 PM
Yep, and through using tariffs as a negotiating tool, Trump got the majority of nations to reduce their tariffs on our goods.
I never said any of those I mentioned was perfect, or infallible. Sowell, who was a student and friend of Friedman, admitted recently that Trump was correct in his use of tariffs as a negotiating tool. It's neither ideal, nor long term, but it is a useful tool.
A negotiating tool? I think not. Showing everyone who the "big man on campus" is.... Read the EU deal in detail... worthless platitudes with little effect. Punishing Canada in the hope they apply to join the Union.... :rofl
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on July 31, 2025, 10:05:26 PM
In a recent thread there was, for a time, a discussion regarding the price of civilized society. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, it was closed, due to the usual suspect(s).
As far as taxation, and, actually, both economics and government are concerned, my philosophy on them comes from Frederic Bastiat, Milton Freidman, Thomas Sowell, and Arthur Laffer. They've been proven reliable and correct for decades, or, in the case of Bastiat, damned near two centuries. And, yeah, they're all (except Bastiat, having lived long before video) prominently featured in videos from various sources on youtube. If you're going to use that as a means to attempt to refute their positions, that only serves to prove the weakness of your claims.
This thread, too, will almost certainly be locked, probably in short order.
+1
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 09:20:47 AM
I think the elimination of property tax is better than lower interest rates for the economy...
I don't think they care what's best but what puts the most green in their pockets not ours...
Eagler
They're not going to eliminate taxes on property. Far too many greedy people have their face buried in that trough, and most of what has been collected has been wasted. Hell, in many places, your property taxes have been used to by pro sports teams new venues, which the majority of tax payers can't even afford to go to, even though many run up stupid levels of debt to go anyway.
Lowering interest rates will be a massive stimulation, and, most importantly maybe, it will make it somewhat more possible for people to buy themselves an actual home. Many do not get what actual home ownership does to the thought process of people. At least, normal people.
Further, exorbitant interest rates do nothing to control inflation. Inflation is driven by government spending, government debt, and government printing of money it doesn't have.
And yeah, only a minuscule number of the people in government give a damn about what is best for the Republic or the citizens.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 10:57:44 AM
5% is not an "exorbitant interest rates"..
An economy is not healthy if it can't handle that...
Lowering it down to what 2%?
It's why the market is screwed now...it'll allowed the donutheads to artificially raise prices because joe 6 pack could " afford the monthly payment "...
Lowering it again now will raise prices again for the same reason and not just homes but every freaking thing..
Some of us aren't leveraged to the limit with numerous maxed out credit cards or loans..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 01:31:34 PM
An economy is not healthy if it can't handle that...
Lowering it down to what 2%?
It's why the market is screwed now...it'll allowed the donutheads to artificially raise prices because joe 6 pack could " afford the monthly payment "...
Lowering it again now will raise prices again for the same reason and not just homes but every freaking thing..
Some of us aren't leveraged to the limit with numerous maxed out credit cards or loans..
Eagler
Again, the interest rate doesn't drive inflation. If the interest rate drove inflation, then the 3% interest rate during the first Trump administration would have caused 9% inflation. It didn't. The first Trump administration had 3% inflation. If interest rates resolved inflation, then the Biden administration wouldn't have seen 9% or high inflation. But it did, despite 5%+ interest rates. They raised the interest rates six times, and not once did the inflation rate drop in return.
Government debt, government spending, and government printing more money, despite having nothing to back it with drives inflation. Government spending floods the market with money, driving up prices. Government debt, and the government printing money, reduces the value of the money.
A 15 year mortgage should never have an interest rate of more than 2-1/2% or 3%. Not for anyone with a decent credit rating and a reasonable debt:income ratio.
The Federal Reserve setting the interest rate is just another method of politicians trying to control the market with government power. The Federal Reserve shouldn't even exist. Thee market should determine the interest rate. Government interference has never helped the economy. Never. The market will correct itself, and rather quickly, and properly, without government interference.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 02:58:20 PM
Sure but lower interest rates inspire the government to print and spend more money they don't have..
A higher interest rate makes our debt more attractive for others to buy so we as a nation can continue to live like spoiled fat Americans living on extended credit..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 03:53:22 PM
Sure but lower interest rates inspire the government to print and spend more money they don't have..
A higher interest rate makes our debt more attractive for others to buy so we as a nation can continue to live like spoiled fat Americans living on extended credit..
Eagler
No, interest rates have no influence on the government printing and spending money they don't have. Congress doesn't care in the least about the interest rate on money it borrows.
The interest rate the Federal Reserve sets doesn't govern foreign purchase of debt.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Shuffler on August 01, 2025, 04:32:54 PM
Easy to tell who is the business man and who just works for the man. :)
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 04:35:52 PM
No, interest rates have no influence on the government printing and spending money they don't have. Congress doesn't care in the least about the interest rate on money it borrows.
The interest rate the Federal Reserve sets doesn't govern foreign purchase of debt.
While you represent yourself as a PhD in economics, it's much simpler. If someone convinces the FED that the TB rate ought to be 2% (down from 4.25%) what would motivate large international investors to finance the US debt if they can get a better rate from any other developed nation.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 01, 2025, 05:03:43 PM
While you represent yourself as a PhD in economics, it's much simpler. If someone convinces the FED that the TB rate ought to be 2% (down from 4.25%) what would motivate large international investors to finance the US debt if they can get a better rate from any other developed nation.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
I never claimed to have any degree in economics.
The Federal Reserve shouldn't exist. And the U.S. should be getting out of debt, not trying to finance more debt. The debt is causing inflation. Inflation is a defacto tax on the middle class and poor.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 05:38:38 PM
The Federal Reserve shouldn't exist. And the U.S. should be getting out of debt, not trying to finance more debt. The debt is causing inflation. Inflation is a defacto tax on the middle class and poor.
Every country needs a central bank that operates independently of the Goverment.
But as to the USA's national debt, we agree. The US has a national debt of roughly $100,000 for every man, woman and child.
Hate to mention it but a large recently passed bill will reportedly increase that debt by a mere $3.4 trillion.
We have zero need for a "central bank" that attempts to set fiscal policy for the nation. Especially not one controlled by politicians. The Federal Reserve has never been a positive influence on the nation. And the Federal Reserve is not even remotely independent of the government or politics, it is far more an agent of the deep state bureaucracy. Allow the market to set the interest rate, it will always self correct within a fiscal quarter, two at the most. The dollar should be on a gold or silver standard. Government interference in the market has been a negative more than 75% of the time, and never truly a positive.
There's neither need nor excuse for the government debt. It's what happens, as Bastiat warned, when people discover they can vote themselves largesse from the government coffers. Government is in many ways an illusion where some believe they can live at the expense of others. The federal government should be shrunk by 75%, and the spending by the same or more. It might fit within the Constitution then.
I was never in favor of that bill. There was much of it I do not like at all. There are few people, and no groups I agree with on everything. Nor do I believe I am correct all the time.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Busher on August 01, 2025, 06:09:11 PM
deep state bureaucracy.
Wow :rolleyes: I think this coversation is over. My paranoia level is far too low to discuss hidden bad guys.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 01, 2025, 06:12:24 PM
We just hang the Gaddafi threat over them and they'll continue to use the bloated dollar until that threat is neutralized one way or another..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 02, 2025, 06:41:13 AM
This..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 08:53:46 AM
Wow :rolleyes: I think this coversation is over. My paranoia level is far too low to discuss hidden bad guys.
If you aren't aware of Woodrow Wilson's administrative bureaucracy of experts, and the fact that there is, indeed, a massive element of bureaucracy deeply and firmly embedded in the federal government, accountable to no one, then, yeah, this conversation is likely over.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 02, 2025, 08:55:26 AM
Well first one must understand how the economy works, obviously some do not. Shocking, I know
I did notice hypocritical references that some are not allowed to speak, yet my thread is set to malfunction.
Obviously its not AH but MH
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: DmonSlyr on August 02, 2025, 12:07:09 PM
I think yall are missing this main understanding. A government is only as powerful as its businesses that fund it. If you rob your business through fear of big powerful business, than you inevitably reduce the potential tax revenue overall. Many countries have not become large due to this. Business ownership is crucial. Investment is crucial. Remember that government is 150x more powerful than any one business. Its their responsibility not to accept bribes or become corrupted by business and its also their job to enforce ethical business standards and laws to prevent gangs and business gangs. Generally, a single business cannot destroy a nation. A single government can, whether by military or swipes of the pen affecting millions of businesses and their jobs at once.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 01:08:32 PM
The government takes taxes in the form of extortion and coercion, under duress. Of course, so long as businesses are able to pass the cost of taxes levied on to the consumer, they will. The government, as the Founding Fathers warned us, has far outgrown where it should be. And the citizens have not only allowed it, but facilitated and encouraged it.
Once again, as Bastiat said, "the American experiment will last only until the people discover they can vote themselves largess from the public coffers." That's what happened. The people, at least some of them, continually vote themselves largess from the public coffers by choosing to vote for people who will give it to them. The illusion that people can live at the expense of others is still widely held.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Eagler on August 02, 2025, 01:11:03 PM
How about them job numbers lol...
It's all a corrupt joke and we are the punch line..
Eagler
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 02, 2025, 06:45:06 PM
It's all a corrupt joke and we are the punch line..
Eagler
The fact that the job reports have been falsified several times, and positions such as the "senate parliamentarian" exist, and are used to intentionally obstruct, obfuscate, and mislead, is proof positive that the "deep state bureaucracy" absolutely exists.
More comes to light daily.
Yep, the citizens are the butt of the joke.
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: AKIron on August 02, 2025, 10:05:55 PM
When the expected minimum wage is $20/hr there will be fewer jobs. Do I need to explain why?
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Animl-AW on August 02, 2025, 10:35:04 PM
DELUSIONAL
Will go on forever, until a non tribe member replies.
Flakes
So deserving of Ignore list that just grew by 4 Intolerable nonsense
epstein
Title: Re: FWIW
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on August 03, 2025, 07:35:39 AM