Hard to believe that Japan is still officialy denying thier actions in WW2.

[Nilsen]

are you sure about that Staga?

[lada]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And if you honestly beleive that. then you've never been to Harlem. Or spent any time in our inner cities

Our "Gangsta's" live in near battlfeild conditions. For them its a way of life. Many joining and participating at a very early age.
Many have to prove themselves by killing before they can even join.

Hell on experiance alone our common street thugs probably have most of your armed sevices beat.

Mayors of sutch towns are Dictators rebbels and threat to world peace.

World need free towns!

Lets save the people, drop there napalm.

[lada]

Originally posted by NUKE
Yup.

The Chinese won't allow demonstrations, peacefull or otherwise unless they are controlling them.

Intelectual in the livingroom ?

[-dead-]

Originally posted by -tronski-
All this over the Chinese govt. drumming up some anti-japanese sentiment...

 Tronsky

It's not really that simple - there's no direct pay off for the Chinese Government: they can only lose from extended Sino-Japanese tension. Both China & Japan desperately need each other economically at the moment. China needs Japan's investments, and Japan needs China's market.

On the whole, I think this is a grass roots movement of hatred against Japan, which the Chinese government is letting slide, because it's safer and more stable to have people protest Japan than to not allow them.

There are so many non-government sanctioned, uncontrolled demonstrations and riots in China these days (sorry Nuke), that having a few that are aimed elsewhere is probably viewed as good and cathartic. And whilst the Chinese government cannot afford to anger the people by not taking a tough stance against Japan, it can't afford to anger Japan by sanctioning the demonstrations either.

Were it to have its own way, the CCP would lean towards squashing the demonstrations. But in realpolitik, it has to tread the thin line it is at the moment: trying to ban the demonstrations without looking like they are. Were they government sanctioned, the demonstrations would be on the CCTV news. They are not.

However, there are several factors to this, other than the schoolbooks (which also led to protests in Korea and Hong Kong) that are at play here: Japan joined the US in pledging the defence of an independent Taiwan, which is touchy subject #1: if you want to get the Chinese angry that's the one to do it, every time. This also adds fuel to the fear of a resurgent militarism in Japan, with the JSDF being given more power leading to fears of dropping the whole "SD" act all together. Add on a permenant UNSC seat, and it gets worse. Then there are economic (oil & gas field exploration in disputed waters) and nationalistic (Diaoyu Islands free-for-all) problems too.

And of course the Chinese leadership are every bit as rabidly patriotic as the US leadership, or any other country's leadership, so being down on Japan for that is not exactly a surprise. And indeed so are is the Japanese leadership, so their stance is not helping much, either: sanctioning the schoolbooks will always be viewed as a gesture of bad faith on their part.

Calling on China to accept responsibility for the actions of the protestors is adding fuel to a dispute which for the protestors centres on Japan not accepting responsibilty for their actions.

[Pongo]

Mean old Chinese, had deliberate brutal horrible genocide practiced on them by the polite honerable japs and really dont like it that the japs are teaching another genertion to deny the evil they did in the past.

[SkyWolf]

Originally posted by Pongo
Mean old Chinese, had deliberate brutal horrible genocide practiced on them by the polite honerable japs and really dont like it that the japs are teaching another genertion to deny the evil they did in the past.

That is the truth of the matter right there. The frightening example of the inhumanity of what the Japanese inflicted on  the people of China is still vividly remembered by the older population and flows down to the younger as well.  Apparently it takes a few years to get over watching your sister get gang raped and your family members being wiped out right before your eyes.

Woof

[Staga]

Originally posted by Nilsen
are you sure about that Staga?

If guy ends his post to words "f__ing idiots" he's either underaged or just doesn't know how to interact with people.
I'm pretty sure about it.

[prkele]

Yes that was  a mistake.

Now, I have to say this because of your personal attack :
Stadiilaiset on paskahousuja.  K�RP�T!!!!

[Nilsen]

Yeah.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by -dead-
It's not really that simple - there's no direct pay off for the Chinese Government: they can only lose from extended Sino-Japanese tension. Both China & Japan desperately need each other economically at the moment. China needs Japan's investments, and Japan needs China's market.

On the whole, I think this is a grass roots movement of hatred against Japan, which the Chinese government is letting slide, because it's safer and more stable to have people protest Japan than to not allow them.

There are so many non-government sanctioned, uncontrolled demonstrations and riots in China these days (sorry Nuke), that having a few that are aimed elsewhere is probably viewed as good and cathartic. And whilst the Chinese government cannot afford to anger the people by not taking a tough stance against Japan, it can't afford to anger Japan by sanctioning the demonstrations either.

Were it to have its own way, the CCP would lean towards squashing the demonstrations. But in realpolitik, it has to tread the thin line it is at the moment: trying to ban the demonstrations without looking like they are. Were they government sanctioned, the demonstrations would be on the CCTV news. They are not.

However, there are several factors to this, other than the schoolbooks (which also led to protests in Korea and Hong Kong) that are at play here: Japan joined the US in pledging the defence of an independent Taiwan, which is touchy subject #1: if you want to get the Chinese angry that's the one to do it, every time. This also adds fuel to the fear of a resurgent militarism in Japan, with the JSDF being given more power leading to fears of dropping the whole "SD" act all together. Add on a permenant UNSC seat, and it gets worse. Then there are economic (oil & gas field exploration in disputed waters) and nationalistic (Diaoyu Islands free-for-all) problems too.

And of course the Chinese leadership are every bit as rabidly patriotic as the US leadership, or any other country's leadership, so being down on Japan for that is not exactly a surprise. And indeed so are is the Japanese leadership, so their stance is not helping much, either: sanctioning the schoolbooks will always be viewed as a gesture of bad faith on their part.

Calling on China to accept responsibility for the actions of the protestors is adding fuel to a dispute which for the protestors centres on Japan not accepting responsibilty for their actions.

Admittedly I oversimplified the situation by only focusing on the textbook issue, because that was the reported cause of the original riots.  Now it has expanded to anti-Japanese politics.  Or perhaps it was all along and we just didnt get things right at first.  Our news outlets here arent exactly innocent when it comes to filtering what they report either.  

I was not aware that the news programs there were not covering the riots.  The reports I had read indicated (did not come out and specify though) that it was a well reported situation within China.  It's hard to get good firsthand news of anything here.  Your explanation of the gov.'s position does make sense.  I still think the Chinese gov. will use the situation to try to drive a wedge between the US and Japan, and more especially to try to keep them off the UN Security Council.  I guess time will tell.  Thanks for the clarifications.

[scspook]

Originally posted by SkyWolf
That's true. However having a working knowledge of firearms and the ability to  hit SOMETHING SOMETIME gives me a bit more insight into the matter than you will ever have. If you can't hit a target at more than 5 feet away under any circumstances then you are hardly a viable fighting force.




Woof

Skywolf, the only thing your sure to hit when you shoot is your foot. You've shot yourself in it often enough in this thread as proof.


A Police Officer will use lethal force in times of high stress. You cant simulate that shooting a bunny.

Auditory and Visual exclusion set in. Tunnel vision if you prefer for both sight and sound.  The body dumps as much adrenalin into it as it can fit. Blood is drawn away from the extremeties and pulled back into the core of the body to ensure the major organs have enough oxygen for flight or fight.  The fine motor skills of the brain that you enjoy every day for simple tasks, shut down and simple things like racking back a slide on a pistol are effected and must be combated by means such as repetetive training.

Marksmanship and instinctive shooting involve very different principles and under times of great stress, unlike the movies, even the best can miss at 3 metres.  I know.   I teach them to shoot under stress every single week.

[SkyWolf]

Originally posted by scspook
Skywolf, the only thing your sure to hit when you shoot is your foot. You've shot yourself in it often enough in this thread as proof.

Think so? My points have been:
1. It's hard enough to hit anything period. No banger is going to excel in a  6 man shoot out with bullets whizzing about. Yeah... they might hit something... but chances are it's going to be some kid across the street. If you have any connection to law enforment then you know that.
2. No group of bangers is going to make a viable fighting force against trained solders. It's ludicrous to even suggest it.
That's what I've been saying. For some reason Jersey Boy seems to think that Bangers would make some kind of Uber Soldiers. Is that what you think too? I hope not. They're oscarholes...not soldiers.
You seem to have popped your head up assuming that I'm saying something I'm not? I don't know for sure what it is... but you seem to think that I said I could shoot under duress or something along those lines. I didn't. If you think I did then learn to read. I said I know how hard it is to hit anything at ANYTIME much less in the heat of confrontation.
I don't know why you decided to jump in here and diss me. I'm not the one comparing Banger bullet spraying to a Police Officer hitting an innocent. I also didn't ask for a f__king explanation of why they find it hard to hit anything under duress. I know why. My point was that they CAN'T DO IT.  WTF do you think I said?
Sure it's cute and all Chest Puffy for Jersey to brag about Bangers. He's proud of them for some reason. But it's bulls_it pure and simple. So please let me know how I've shot myself in the foot.


Woof

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Fishu
Still about the schoolbooks, just to point out it isn't just the japanese.

Hienoa tehd� ��li�akkountti tuon sanomiseen, ��li�

I like the japanese....the French suck, but their irrelevant anyway.

[scspook]

I have to wonder sometimes why I read these boards. The abuse of the English language suffering from American slang borders on the criminal. Ie; "dissin" "Bangers", "Gangstas" WTF is that?  Only bangers I know are sausages with mash and G' Bangers, my prefered item of female enticement.

"Gangsters" ie; those in a gang, usually employ weapons where accuracy is not a definitive factor in their task.  Shotguns, Semi auto pistols for example. Spray n pray.

Again, distance plays a factor. You dont find gangsters in fighting lines or formations. Assassination is nice close and personal. Snipers among this breed are few and far between.

I agree with you that they are an ineffective force when it comes to discipline and open shooting matches in the street and I agree with you that because of their style of attack, that the chance of innocents being hit is exceedingly high.  I also agree with you that they would stand a snowballs chance in hell against trained troops.

However their style of fighting suits an urban guerrilla type closed environment.  They can be effective as a group in this terrain.  How long they last is another story.