Author Topic: Scary, in an wierd sort of way.  (Read 1500 times)

Offline Fatty

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Scary, in an wierd sort of way.
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2001, 11:44:00 AM »
Spy planes gets caught?

You mean the huge, lumbering thing they had out in the wide open in broad daylight?

The UK sends intercepts Revvin, we send intercepts, I imagine even Russia sends intercepts, but if those intercepts run into the planes they're going to have a look at, they're smart enough to know its their own fault.

Offline Maverick

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Scary, in an wierd sort of way.
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2001, 02:16:00 PM »
Fatty, Toad,

Don't try to convince them otherwise. Their minds are made up and facts are only something for them to ignore in the face of their prejudice.

Pretty much the same thing in a ground collision where a car rear ends another one at a red light. The rear driver claims the other car rammed him at high speed in reverse....in spite of the skids that lead directly to his car.

Mav
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Offline Toad

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Scary, in an wierd sort of way.
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2001, 03:38:00 PM »
CC, Mav.

I figure he was probably just another troll.  

In fact, I prefer to think that.  

Otherwise it means he really doesn't have a clue with respect to intelligence gathering, International Law, Aviation right-of-way policies, ADIZ airspace, International Airspace, ICAO Standard Intercept Procedures ... well, with respect to the entire incident.

All this stuff has been discussed in related threads so it pretty much HAS to be a troll.

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Offline Revvin

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« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2001, 03:49:00 PM »
Boroda> Ahh yes I remember it, got quite heated as I remember but then good discussions do  

Fatty> It was chock full of surveilance equipment that was hurridly destroyed by the crew.. what do you think they were on..a sight seeing tour?? I never said any country does anything different but you don't hear anyone whining as loudly as America when its caught with its pants down, whose word are you taking for blame in the collision? I'm sure if the Chinese pilot were still alive he'd have his version too but neither Government is going to admit anything either way.

 
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Their minds are made up and facts are only something for them to ignore in the face of their prejudice.

Wow Mav what do you do for an encore? wave the stars and stripes to the tune of Bruce Springstein "Born in the USA" man you guys make me weak with laughter you swallow every word thats fed to you by your government. Perhaps if it is so transparent and open perhaps they'll tell us who really shot Kennedy  

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2001, 09:01:00 PM »
Revvin,

When you come up with some facts you can talk to me. In the mean time please take your speculation and play with it in the corner. I'm sure you'll be much happier there than dealing with the real world.

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Mk10=Ravens

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Scary, in an wierd sort of way.
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2001, 12:06:00 AM »
Not really sure what's going on here.  Maybe it's just that I'm a little tired.

As a card-carrying member of the Militant Left, I don't really make it a practice to blindly follow anything my country might do.

I always despised the statement "Love It or Leave It."  I thought that slogan would have been more appropriate in Germany around 1935.

But I will say this:  "Born in the USA" is a song about a Vietnam vet that comes back disillusioned, and basically his life is crap.  It makes about as much sense to suggest an American use that as a chest-beating theme as it would for me to offer "Anarchy in the UK" for a British flag-waving ceremony.

Additionally, even from the Radical Left, I can tell you that the difference between China and the US in this matter is that we are quite used to playing the surveillance game.

There may be some incident that both the US and the USSR, or later Russia, got involved in and covered up, but we usually don't run into people's planes.

We also don't make people who make grave mistakes national heroes.  

When I see this continue with the Chinese propaganda machine, instead of getting angry, I really start to feel sorry for the Chinese government.  It's like they need a lesson in how to be a super-power or something.

I guess there is no way with the prejudice that seems to exist in the world towards the United States, that we'll ever be seen as anything more than an agressive, boasting child, that just "doesn't get it", no matter what we do.  Oh well.  Never try and teach a pig to sing.  It's a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig.

It seems particularly absurd in this instance.  I don't think anyone in this country is being fed some kind of roadkill line about what happened.

Maybe every film we see on CNN is some wild concoction a la "Wag The Dog" or something, but from what I've seen, this guy was a little too cocky, and it got him into trouble.

Personally, sure, I'm sorry a guy got killed.  I never like to hear that someone died.  But should we as a nation take the blame for his death?  Should we feel like it's our fault he died?  No.  

In closing, I think probably the main thing that differentiates the US from a lot of countries in this world is that we DON'T swallow every word that is "fed" to us by our government.  I think we kind of wrote the book on how to demonstrate against the policies of our government on a number of issues, throughout the decades.

And I can't speak for every American, but quite a few of us are rather adept at telling toejam from Shine-o-la.  Even if we're card-carrying liberals.  

Let's stop looking at this as another example of running-dog imperialist yankee war-monger aggression, and realize that it was a horrible accident that took the life of a Chinese pilot, and damn near killed 24 Americans.  

I'm just another working slob myself, but I'm getting sick and tired of being labeled as some sort of gun-toting, hate-filled moron, who thinks I'm better than anyone else in the world.

Sometimes I feel like if I ever did have the opportunity, the time, and the funds to travel abroad, I'd spend most of my time trying to dispel the stigma that seems to be attached to anyone from the United States.  

Hell, if that's what I want to do with my time, I can save my money, and stay here and argue with conservative right-wingers ad nauseum.

Hey Eagler, you got your ears on?    

Mk

Offline Karnak

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Scary, in an wierd sort of way.
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2001, 01:11:00 AM »
Mk10=Ravens,
I've got to say that its nice to see another liberal in here.  We're rare as hens teeth in the flight sim community.

I agree with everything you posted, nice job.

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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2001, 01:22:00 AM »
Revvin, to be honest, I don't really have a problem with them gutting the plane.  Well, I'd rather they didn't, but nobody honestly expects they won't.  You say this as if they were suprised the plane was there?  It's been flying the flight forever, they've been intercepting it forever, their pilot simply pushed the line too hard this time and messed up.

What I have a problem with is our trade supporting a government that is using us as the demon to rally nationalism because their pilot accidentally ran into our plane.



[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 04-17-2001).]