F4u vs Me109 1v1 duels

[Creton]

Here are some films of some of the duels I've had recently.
Feel free to critique these and if you need any films hosted please contact myself or "DOMIN" who is our website admin.  


Here's one my favorites.

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/2f4uvsk4.ahf


Here are just some of the challenges that have ben extended to my poor undermodeled 109:(

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg2.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg22.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsg23.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk4.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk42.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk43.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk44.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk45.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk46.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk47.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk48.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk49.ahf

http://www.badcompanysquad.com/creton/f4uvsk410.ahf

[aqhawasi]

I tend to fly the 109F a lot.  Coming from Air Warrior III, I found it somewhat shocking how much better the 109F4 in AWIII was.  So I am thinking perhaps it was over-modelled in that game and AHII has a better flight model for it.  Now (putting on my flak jacket), I cant say I really know what I am talking about when discussing flight models, but I've done A LOT of reading on the 109s, and most german pilots seem to agree in that the 109F4 was probably one of the finer balanced 109s, and that if flown well, could definitely turn with some of the spits... which leads me to believe it should outturn most USAF fighters (except maybe the 38).  

Are my assumptions correct?  Any tips on using the 109F to the best of its abilities?  Also, if any of you wouldnt mind dueling with me and probably making me look ridiculous, feel free to let me know.  

Oh yeah, thanks for the film posts.  They really help.


Peru

[MajWoody]

Thx Creton,
nice films. It seems like the people who used to post films here all the time have not done so in a while. Glad to see some of you guys posting them again. They help lessen the learning curve a bunch.

 

[Benny Moore]

Originally posted by aqhawasi
I've done A LOT of reading on the 109s, and most german pilots seem to agree in that the 109F4 was probably one of the finer balanced 109s, and that if flown well, could definitely turn with some of the spits... which leads me to believe it should outturn most USAF fighters (except maybe the 38).  

I thank you enthusiastically for being the only Me-109 fanatic I have ever met who realizes that the P-38 was at least as good as the 109 at turning.  Though modern 109 fanatics usually screech in horror at the thought, claiming that such a thing "defies physics," German aces all seemed to agree that, though roll rate was poor enough to prevent it from being a serious problem, a P-38 could turn well within the Me-109.  Steinhoff used the phrase "appreciably tighter turns," Stigler said that the P-38 "could turn inside us with ease," and there are many others.  Another ace said that the P-38 could outturn a 109 in a sustained turn, but that the Me-109 had a better roll rate and instantaneous turn.  He stated that the Messerschmitt pilot needed to reverse direction repeatedly, and the Lightning pilot would eventually tire because his aileron controlls were heavier.  Of course, that was before boosted ailerons.

As for the Me-109 versus the F-4U Corsair, I'd say that the 109 isn't undermodelled but rather that the Corsair is overmodelled (greatly).  I love the ship dearly but the truth is that the F-4U was the worst turning American fighter of the war, period.  It had a wider turn than even the Thunderbolt.  The Corsair was fantastic in a dogfight, and many pilots rated it the best at the Joint Fighter Conference.  But much like the FW-190, its good dogfighting ability was not because of the turning ability.  In the simulator, however, the Corsair turns very much like a Spitfire, and is the best turning American airplane.

[Creton]

new corsair films on the way,done got 5 of the F4U-1A against a 109.
Little different fight but same result.

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by aqhawasi
I tend to fly the 109F a lot.  Coming from Air Warrior III, I found it somewhat shocking how much better the 109F4 in AWIII was.  So I am thinking perhaps it was over-modelled in that game and AHII has a better flight model for it.  Now (putting on my flak jacket), I cant say I really know what I am talking about when discussing flight models, but I've done A LOT of reading on the 109s, and most german pilots seem to agree in that the 109F4 was probably one of the finer balanced 109s, and that if flown well, could definitely turn with some of the spits... which leads me to believe it should outturn most USAF fighters (except maybe the 38).  

Are my assumptions correct?  Any tips on using the 109F to the best of its abilities?  Also, if any of you wouldnt mind dueling with me and probably making me look ridiculous, feel free to let me know.  

Oh yeah, thanks for the film posts.  They really help.


Peru

Peru are you new or just new to the boards? They redid the models for the 109s recently and the F can now turn fight the spits plus outclimb them. Anytime I'm in a spit8 and see a 109 I always hope it's not an F. Try it out in the TA/DA, fight a few of the known TnBers and I think you'll be surprised.

[humble]

The FM for the new hog is certainly a bit different (not neccessarily in a bad way) from before. It's gained some "smoothness" {seems to be the word everybody used} but at the expense of its "nimbleness" IMO. I think it will make it an easier bird for many to fly but make it a bit tougher to go "all angles".....missed you last night but sometime over the weekend i'm sure you'll a chance to work me over:)....

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Benny Moore


  I love the ship dearly but the truth is that the F-4U was the worst turning American fighter of the war, period.  It had a wider turn than even the Thunderbolt.  The Corsair was fantastic in a dogfight, and many pilots rated it the best at the Joint Fighter Conference.  But much like the FW-190, its good dogfighting ability was not because of the turning ability.  

A fantastic dogfighter.......that can't turn? So its good dogfighting ability is due to what? Outclimbing or outrunning it's opposition?

[humble]

Originally posted by Lye-El
A fantastic dogfighter.......that can't turn? So its good dogfighting ability is due to what? Outclimbing or outrunning it's opposition?

Benny is a bit clueless it appears in some regards. Air combat exists in a 3 demensional world. you need to look no further then Robert Johnsons "duel" with a spit to recognize that its the correct application of a planes strengths that wins a fight. The hog for example is easily the best turning plane in the 43-45 plane set.....at combat speeds. Why....simple it has both the ability to control its speed (flaps, "brakes", throttle) and the extraordinary control surface authority to use it. So a hog at 350 has a much wider range of options then its adversary. Will it out turn all planes in a sustained turn....no....but few are going to live long enough to reach that point. Very little aircomabt actually occurs at the optimal corner speed of a true turn fighter like a spit. The spits inability to shed E and its single stage flaps work against it...so does the control surface authority of the 38 or 109. The 190, P-47 and P-51 are the Hogs true rivals but none has the versitility overall (190A-5 closest IMO). Doesnt mean that the others cant beat a hog just that if you look at total capability the hog is a true "fighter" and not an interceptor.