Author Topic: The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)  (Read 377 times)

Offline Halo

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« on: December 16, 2006, 05:59:17 PM »
(Charles Krauthammer article continues)


Historically, whenever  one country has arisen above all the
others in power, anti-hegemonic alliances immediately formed
against them.  The classic  example is  the alliance against
Napoleon in  the early nineteenth century, and of course the
alliances against  Germany from World War I to World War II,
particularly in  the 1930s,  where you  had the  rise of  an
aggressive, hegemonic  Germany in  the heart of Europe. What
is interesting about our unipolar era is that whereas we had
achieved unprecedented  hegemony in  the first  decade and a
half, there  were no  alliances against  us. What I think we
are beginning  to see  now is Iran positioning itself at the
center of  a regional  alliance against us, again with the--
Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria, Sadr--looking to overawe the entire
region with  the acquisition of nuclear weapons, which would
make it the regional superpower. And Iran is receiving tacit
backing for  its regional  and anti-American  ambitions from
two great  powers: Russia  and China.  That, I think, is the
structure of  the adversary  that we  will be looking at for
the decades to come.

As the  Bush Doctrine has come under attack, there are those
in America  who have  welcomed  its  apparent  setbacks  and
defeats as  a vindication  of their criticism of the policy.
But the  problem is  that that  kind of  vindication  leaves
America in  a position where there are no good alternatives.
The reason  that there  is general despair now is because if
it proves  to be  true that the Bush Doctrine has proclaimed
an idea  of democratizing  the Arab/Islamic  world  that  is
unattainable and  undoable,  then  there  are  no  remaining
answers to  how to  counter ultimately the threat of Islamic
radicalism.

It remains  the only  plausible answer--changing the culture
of that  area, no  matter how  slow and  how  difficult  the
process. It  starts in Iraq and Lebanon, and must be allowed
to proceed  and  not  precipitate  an  early  and  premature
surrender. That  idea remains  the only  conceivable one for
ultimately prevailing  over the Arab Islamic radicalism that
exploded upon  us 9/11.  Every other  is a policy of retreat
and defeat  that would ultimately bring ruin not only on the
U.S. but on the very idea of freedom.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 06:07:02 PM by Halo »
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Offline WhiteHawk

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2006, 07:08:41 PM »
:huh

Online Maverick

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2006, 07:46:34 PM »
Do you have a point or is this just boozonics posting walls of text in multiple threads because you're too drunk to do it in one?
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Offline Halo

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 07:56:59 PM »
Sorry for my clumsiness in posting this presentation.  Midway through, I realized I should have just tried to link it.  

But it's readable if you take it slowly, and if I didn't think it wasn't one of the best summations of the Middle East dilemma, I certainly would not have bothered posting it.  

Don't let my awkward posting turn you off from this piece.  Everyone should read it.  I mean, everyone.
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Offline Debonair

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 08:03:43 PM »
even Dexter Manley?

Offline RedTop

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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 08:14:48 PM »
It was a good read Halo. Thanks for posting it.
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Offline bj229r

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 11:28:04 PM »
Krauthammer is a genius, but they gonna delete your post, save mebbe the link
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Offline Masherbrum

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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2006, 01:42:41 AM »
"More effort spent in 5 threads than 1."   I hate math, but in this case, it would've worked for me.
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Offline Halo

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2006, 09:09:21 AM »
Learn from my mistakes.

1.  This article forwarded fine in AOL.  So thought I could just copy and paste it here.  Wrong.  This bulletin board limits lengths.  I've seen a couple two-part posts here and they weren't bad.  So I started breaking it up.  Too long for two parts; thought surely three would work.  Nope.  Had to add a fourth.  Well, clumsy, but readable, and the article is worth it.

2.  Early on, thought I'd just link it.  But I was too obtuse to realize that when copying a link that ended a sentence, that period was enough to make the link fail with the message:  Site Under Construction.  Another misleading error message.

After the four-parter was finally completed, finally figured out to delete the period in the link.

Now you have this article in four parts here, or a link.  That's all I can do.  I hope you get past the construction and realize this is a very fine article well worth your time.
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Offline cpxxx

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2006, 06:22:38 PM »
What strikes me is his examples of the two regimes which had anti hegomanic alliances formed against them. Both were aggressive empire building dictatorships. Both had illusions of grandeur and both believed in their right to conquer. Both were ultimately defeated as much by their own hubris as their enemies.

I don't think the United States can realistically be compared to Napolean's France or Hitler's Germany. However the USA has been described as an empire and has many features of an empire. But Washington is not the new Rome. Washington does not so much control it's empire with troops and bureaucrats but by it's economic muscle and it's influence.

However it is all in the perception. If Iran, Syria et al are forming an alliance against the United States. It is because they believe that the USA is
Quote
changing the culture of that area
It's a threat to their world order. To their mind  it's empire building and they have the example of Iraq to show them what will happen if you take on the USA alone. That perceived threat drives them into the arms of the radicals or at least gives them a shared enemy.

Also there is a persistent notion that Islamic radicalism is something new. It's a permanent feature of Islam. It waxes and wanes and is mostly aimed against other Muslims. Only lately has it directed it's energies at the west in general and the US in particular.  That in part is due to their belief that the USA is
Quote
changing the culture of that area
 The USA also supports the regimes radicals hate.

Attempting to bring democratisation to these countries may in fact have the opposite effect. The current rulers don't want it and neither do the radicals. Not exactly fertile ground for the seeds of freedom and democracy.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 06:25:19 PM by cpxxx »

Offline bj229r

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2006, 07:41:21 PM »
Quote
That perceived threat drives them into the arms of the radicals or at least gives them a shared enemy.
--- They ARE the radicals, they BREED the radicals, they TRAIN the radicals, and they FUND the radicals



Quote
The USA also supports the regimes radicals hate.
--i.e. Israel--Let Israel fall and the Jews therein be slaughtered, ...mebbe they won't hate us quite as much

Quote
Attempting to bring democratisation to these countries may in fact have the opposite effect. The current rulers don't want it and neither do the radicals. Not exactly fertile ground for the seeds of freedom and democracy.
 Yup, can't argue that point--saw an article the other day which pointed out that there are only 3 REAL countries in the middle east, the rest are mobs controlled by dictators, or chunks of land parsed out by wars--Egypt, Iran, and Turkey being the real ones
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Offline Bluedog

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 02:31:05 AM »
Thanks Halo, interesting read.

Any chance you can edit the multiple posts, and make each section a reply to the previous section all in one post?
Definately worth reading, just hard to find all the parts.

Offline Halo

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The Middle East Mess and Beyond (IV)
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 02:49:46 PM »
Hmmm, posting a long find by making each section a reply to the previous.  Yeah, good idea for future posts.  I certainly did this one long and backwards.  

Too late for me to edit it anymore, but you can read it quick and clean by reading the link post and clicking on the link, which I finally got right.

I mean this link, right here:

http://www.fpri.org
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 02:56:05 PM by Halo »
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. (Seneca, 1st century AD, et al)
Practice random acts of kindness and senseless beauty. (Anne Herbert, 1982, Sausalito, CA)
Paramedic to Perkaholics Anonymous