so what do you do?

[Tigeress]

Originally posted by lazs2
I think that a lot of you guys are suffering either/or from "euro syndrome" or "young healthy male myopia syndrome"

euro syndrome is that you are in a tiny little country where everyone looks just like you and the crime rate is low.

the young man one is simply the myopic thinking that you are young and strong and therfore... everyone who ever is in a bad situation will be young and strong and male too...  heck... you may never have been in a fight in your life but... you have seen movies and heck... you work out!  

You have never met a real bad guy..  even at my advanced age.. I bet I could kick the crap out of some of you who think "they can take care of themselves"   I don't fight fair.   I know I could take any of you if I could pick two guys to help.

So myopic guys says... "If it looks bad I will just run away or give em everything"

What if you can't run or what if they are just feeling mean?  Not everyone is a world class sprinter like yourself.  What about your wife?  what about the guy with a bad leg?  what about the 70 year old dad?   Would you... do you.. tell your wife that if someone wants to rape her she should just give em what they want?   Do you know how brutal (even to death) some rapes are here?

Tigress said socialist because.. it is the socialist who thinks that he can tell others what to do.   It is the socialist who feels that society trumps individuals and that they can take away rights... Until it is them who is being attacked.

It does no good to say that you would kill to protect your own if you have taken away everyones (including yourselfs) right to have the tools to kill..

Anyone who would seek to take away my right to defend myself is not just some socialist in a debate of civilized men... he is a mortal enemy.

lazs

That's pretty much how I see pure socialism.

I don't buy it... I'm not a sheep.

TIGERESS

[SteveBailey]

See Rules #4, #5

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
steve

i never intended to talk about bloody guns again with you over there, i simply came into your character assasination of nilsen who just wanted to be the best dad he knows he can be in his own method, not yours.

 

Bat, it's not a pro gun argument.  I simply think that folks should look out for each other.  Your police force actually advocates witnesses walking away from a crime beign committed(like a mugging)*. I disagree with that.

 I think it is incumbent upon each of us to try to help the victim, for us as members of society to look out for each other, short of the point where one simply becomes a victim as well.

* sorry, should have qualified this.  I have read this, not experienced this first hand.

[SteveBailey]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV



why cant you understand that we dont need guns to feel man enough to take on anything life will throw at us?

Here is an alarming trend in your country that may one day dissuade you.

Terry Grange, Chief Constable of Dyfed Powys and the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo) spokesman on domestic violence and sex crime, who heads a team of more than 20 researchers, said: 'I don't think you can sensibly deny that there is a higher incidence of rape and a more routine use of violence, and also of weapons-based violence where it used to be fists and feet.'

Certainly the odds of a particular person being mugged are small so it's still reasonable to feel safe.

[RedTop]

Bottom line in all this is , that Europe and the U.S. are very different in what firearms mean.

What happens in Europe and the way they think is much different than here.

Criminals here have access to guns. Bottom line. IF they want them they can get them and WE as a country know this. We as a country WANT firearms and the right to keep them. But , with that right comes risk. Risk of people getting thier hands on them that are hell bent on using them for murder.

WE accept this as a part of life and MANY are o.k. with that. I'm ok with the current way firearms are purchased. IF a bad person wants a gun , they WILL find a way to get one. After they kill someone with it people want to make a big deal about guns in general. Chances are that the kiler purchased it illegally anyway. Possibly stole it.

Killing someone such as the person that went into that mall and opened fire , would be tough. I don't care who you are , killing another individual has GOT to be hard to do if your a normal thinking person and not some whack job.

It comes down to choice. THo some here want agree with it , if a person WANTS to choose to take the high road and let the perp have thier wallet or car or stuff , then they make that choice. It's not for ME nor anyone else to decide for them. If something WORST happens in the robbery or mugging whatever the case maybe , then that person has to live with that choice for ever.

IF you choose to pull the gun , and do what you think is right in your mind , then everything that happens from that moment on is your choice as well. And you and you alone will have to live with what happens.

I mentioned earlier about an incident....without details and more long winded post , I had a person 8 ft. with thier back to me at midnight coming out of my back yard standing thier as I told them to stop. I had that gun pointiing directly at thier head. Now , I was shaking prolly just as much as that person. AFter all was said and done , it was a kid , looking for his dog. He had a retractable leash in his hand and it was VERY dark.

What is I had shot him? I was sick to my stomache after that.....IF he had been an intruder or was meaning harm , I could have a would have shot him. But it all turned out okl.

Point is.....Pulling that gun.....and pointing at another human being is very very sickening and scarey.

[MORAY37]

Originally posted by AKIron
And how many deaths are caused by cars every year? Wanna compare the numbers?

#1 Motor Vehicle Accidents – Approximately 47,000 deaths per year

4. The US Centers for Disease Control reports that in 2001, there were a total of 20,308 deaths from homicide in the US.

I just compared them for him.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by MORAY37
I just compared them for him.

Of course your reference for homicides did not specify method but even if there were guns in every instance cars are still far more deadly.

[lazs2]

that was not the point.. not what I said at all.

You all buckle up like good little sheeple but.. of the 47,000 deaths a year in cars... how many were prevented due to seatbelts?   every fender bender where someone is wearing a seatbelt is called "saved by seatbelt" these days but.... using their numbers.. maybe 5,000 are "saved"  I think they are exaggerating but....  say 5,000  and that is with a law that makes it a sin to not wear one.. you will lose your money and livelyhood and if you resist..your life over it..

Now.. every year..  about 1.5 million crimes are stopped with civilian held firearms (to take the FBI low figure)... say that only 1% of those would have resulted in a death.. that would be 15,000 saved by firearms.

but..  that is not what I said at all... I didn't say save your life... just be a victim of a violent crime... you are far more likely to be a victim of a violent crime in your lifetime than to have your life saved by a seatbelt.

latest figures for violent crime in the US is 1,450,000 a year.

The numbers work out about 1 violent crime per 200 people.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_vio_cri_percap-crime-violent-per-capita

course.. if you live in a craphole blue area it is much higher...  a good red area.. much lower but...

With at 1 in 200 chance every year... how does that stack up to the tiny little risk of driving without a seatbelt?

If I have to choose between what is the best safety precaution... I will choose the gun over the seatbelt every time.

lazs

[AKIron]

I guess if you were really fast and had lotsa bullets you could shoot yer way out through some SOB pulling out in front of you.

[Rich46yo]

For the record Ive used firearms to protect myself and others many, many times. True I have a tin star on my chest but that doesnt really mean anything. The truth is guns are extremely effective in preventing attacks on innocent individuals. The most important defense is probably what you have between you ears but the 2nd one, without question, is having a really big gun to pull out.

                        Using guns,or at least pulling them out, and I prefer a .45, Ive stopped many a violent offender, caught many a violent offender, prevented many a violent crime, and generally put many a violent criminal stunninghunk into a cage for decades.

                      Just last year some gangbanger emptied a .357 mag at us in our squad car and when we cornered him in a ghetto apartment I gave him 2 choices. Either come out peacefully and go to jail or Im going to empty this SIG 220 into his guts. He chose the former and chose 60 years in a cage to eternity in a box.

                   I have found, with great experience mind you, that guns are very effective tools for self defense. Even the threat of getting shot full of holes has prevented many a major crime.

                  Another thing ive noticed is that the Liberal anti-gun crowd still retains this childish view that all people are basically good, even criminals, and that they are instead victims of environment and social conditioning. Not really responsible for their crimes.

               Well I got news for these "enlightened people". One million years ago we were all a bunch of monkeys looking  for a bone to gnaw on. We had rotten specimens then and we have them now. A lot of these creeps just have no soul inside when you look into their eyes and the only option we have is to keep them in a cage for life, or, give me a hot shot to pay for their horrid crimes.

            And some of these crimes are just horrible. One X-mas eve about 15 years ago I had to handle a murder of a 6yo girl that her body building father beat to death on X-mas. We had to carry her to the morgue, her helpless little body beaten to a pulp and her internal organs ruptured. I remember she had lovely china blue eyes..............

          So these Liberal fools can count on the inherent goodness of all men for self protection. But I myself will continue to use a .45 ACP, with a backup 9mm, and a lot of spare clips. And when I walk into a public place I miss nothing, nobody, and ID all escape routes.

       Cause you see I dont believe in the inherent goodness of all men. 24 years of working the streets of a big city taught me that.