Author Topic: I'm with Congress  (Read 2132 times)

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
I'm with Congress
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2008, 12:17:58 AM »
As far as you can see it.
====
pretty much.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Stoney

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
I'm with Congress
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2008, 02:45:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Saxman
As pointed out, the security we had in the country prior to 9/11 WAS sufficient to have prevented it...The failure was in the people MANAGING that system...The capabilities of the terrorists have NOT changed. Chemical, biological and nuclear/dirty bomb attacks were as much of a threat BEFORE 9/11 as they are now.


First statement--Wrong.  WTC was attacked once before.  Furthermore, if you go way back, there are many instances of terrorist activity looking to impact American interests around the globe.  A lack of potential terrorist activity over the 60 years previously mentioned does not constitute a situation where "existing laws" prevented terrorist activity inside the U.S.  If the terrorists don't attempt action inside the U.S., that's not the same as saying they were thwarted in their previous attempts to conduct such as a result of legacy national security law.

Second statement--Wrong, this time IMO.  Failure to take decisive action after the U.S. embassy was overrun in Pakistan back in the early '70's was the beginning of the emboldenment.  This exacerbated the situation in Iran some years later, as the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran would not have been attempted had we demonstrated the willingness to respond violently and decisively after the Pakistani incident.  Following that was our flaccid response to the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beruit.  Following that was our flaccid response after the Blackhawk Down incident.  Following that was our flaccid response after the string of Khobar Towers/WTC Part 1/USS Cole incidents.  Our lack of decisive action after each of these incidents, which spanned 5 presidencies (by both parties) encouraged and emboldened those terrorists.  The last 3 and possibly 4 incidents listed were committed by the same people.  Furthermore, and someone with the specifics can either confirm or correct me here--There were pre-Patriot Act laws that precluded the CIA from supplying information to the FBI as a result of legalism regarding intelligence agencies interfering with law-enforcement functions.  If the General Counsel of the CIA tells the Director that it could be construed as illegal to supply the FBI with certain types of intelligence, the Director may not do it.  That's a problem with the system, pre-attack.

Last statement--Wrong.  Certainly in the immediate time period before the 9/11 attack, special weapon threat was possibly equivalent (or greater) than it is now.  However, going back to the 70's again, the capabilities of terrorist organizations up until the 90's was limited strictly to conventional types of attacks, and even then, merely small arms/explosives type stuff.  Small bombs, hijackings, and shootings were the norm with respect to perceived and actual capability.  Only after certain states saw value in adding the potential of special weapons as a terrorist capability did the special weapon threat begin to be considered credible.  You could argue that this was a fairly narrow time span, starting with the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, with a mature threat of special weapons evolving sometime in the mid-90's.

This is a much more interesting discussion when the political lines are omitted, as this is a very complex issue that has evolved over the course of both parties' and several presidents' tenure in the White House.
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

HiTech

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18096
I'm with Congress
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2008, 07:10:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
What has happened to the conservatives and liberals over time?

Conservatives once believed in small government, and individual right

Liberals supported bigger government and more regulation.


they still do
problem is the right has moved more towards center while the left has moved out to its extreme
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
I'm with Congress
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2008, 08:09:40 AM »
I'm afraid yeager is right.. once they vaporize some blue city the left will fold like a cheap card table under a fat lady and the right will have the power to turn every place into the same kind of place airports are now "papers please".

I don't want either party to have more power.  I want smaller government.   Less intrusive government.   I don't care if a few cities get vaporized.   It is a small price to pay to not live in a totalitarian  state..  left or right wing.

lazs

Offline bongaroo

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1822
I'm with Congress
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2008, 10:40:52 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 10:51:33 AM by Skuzzy »
Callsign: Bongaroo
Formerly: 420ace


Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26967
I'm with Congress
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2008, 10:54:53 AM »
I think the fix is simple.... profiling. Be it racial, age, or whatever. To find the terrorists you have to look for terrorist types. No harm in asking questions of folks who fit a specific description. Police have done this for years.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline Trell

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 693
I'm with Congress
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2008, 11:47:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I'm afraid yeager is right.. once they vaporize some blue city the left will fold like a cheap card table under a fat lady and the right will have the power to turn every place into the same kind of place airports are now "papers please".

I don't want either party to have more power.  I want smaller government.   Less intrusive government.   I don't care if a few cities get vaporized.   It is a small price to pay to not live in a totalitarian  state..  left or right wing.

lazs


God i actually Agree with Laz.... with the second part.
But it seems to be the right that is big becoming the intrusives government in the name of fight terrorists
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 11:49:59 AM by Trell »

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
I'm with Congress
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2008, 02:15:17 PM »
trell..  the left scares me more because it permeates more of my life on a day to day basis..  there is plenty of my behavior that they want to change..  plenty of my hobbies that they think are not good for me and they are willing to take everything I own to save me.. if I resist.. they will kill me to save me.

the right is almost as bad...  look what they did to airports.. I won't even go there any more.. it depresses me.  

Still...  tell me what I can eat for my own good or take my guns for my own good... that is much worse than listen to my phone conversation...  I never figured that a phone conversation was private in the first damn place.

lazs

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
I'm with Congress
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2008, 04:10:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
Yet on the flip side..

The ones whom support their gun rights from the evil commie liberals.. are the ones whom are most willing to give alway all their other rights and inch us to a police state one step at a time.


That is about the most ignorant blanket statement I have ever heard.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline bj229r

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6732
I'm with Congress
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2008, 08:14:01 PM »
All this is extrapolated from eavesdropping on a confab between someone from Yemen and someone from Jordan---whose phone /internet traffic passes through the US---again--neither the Dems or the Gop are against afore-mentioned eavesdropping, the Dems just want the trial lawyers to be able to sue Verizon for allowing it
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

http://www.flamewarriors.net/forum/