Author Topic: I'm with Congress (Read 2272 times)

Saxman · « **on:** February 23, 2008, 12:22:06 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080223/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Dubya has attacked Congress for their refusal to back a bill that would give telecommunications companies immunity for assisting with the Warrantless Federal wiretapping plan. The current bill, which the President has already announced he would veto, would allow citizens to file lawsuits against telecommunications companies that comply with the wiretapping and challenging it as a violation of privacy. Bush charges the bill would empower trial lawyers.

I say: Bull****.

Warrantless wiretapping is ALREADY on the fringe of violating the Constitution, and past legal precedent ALREADY established that the President DOES NOT HAVE THIS AUTHORITY. Yet, Dubya ALREADY exceeded his Constitutional authority in ORDERING it in the first place.

This law would not empower the Bar Association as Bush charges, but would protect one of THE largest businesses in the United States. Telecommunications companies are HUGE, and current regulations enacted by the FCC offers them virtual monopolies in their regions of operation.

Should a telecommunications company comply with Federal wiretapping without a warrant they are EVERY bit as responsible for violations of civil liberties and should very RIGHTLY be held just as accountable.

Whether Democrat or Republican wins this year's election, it's time that the Executive Branch is RESTRAINED, because we're steadily on our way to a Police State.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2008, 12:42:00 PM »

Maybe next time you'll be in the building the terrorists destroy.

Because thats the real problem isn't it? A-hab, the A-rab, can come into this country on a visa, or even illegally, comm all he wants on cell phones, and LawEnforcement is hindered by the stringent legal requirements that have to be met before his cell phone can be tapped.

As it stands now nobody is secretly listening in on your phone calls tho its true the NSA has been collecting data on millions of calls to try and ID patterns. And its also true that they have been listening in on phone calls made to outside the USA by persons of interest. But one end of the call has to reach outside our borders. And anyone who leaves a cell phone on leaves a record of where they were at and when. The NSA has nothing to do with that.

I myself dont want A-hab making calls to his buddies in Afghanistan or Pakistan and to do so under protection of US law. Thats the kind of stupidity that got us blowed up in the first place. By the same token, should they find A-hab, I dont much care if they dunk him under water to get him to tell us where his buddies are.

The ACLU never protected one American from a terrorist attack and they aren't about to now. Right now we need to be smart about terrorism because the terrorists have already taken a lot of our rights away.

But just to be safe, if you are a drug dealer or pulling armed robberies?? Probably best to not use the cell phone.

George Bush can go to bed at night knowing he's done his duty in protecting his country. There hasn't been one more successful attack on US soil since 9/11.

Lumpy · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2008, 12:45:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Maybe next time you'll be in the building the terrorists destroy.

I would rather risk that than live in a police state.

bsdaddict · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2008, 12:56:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lumpy
I would rather risk that than live in a police state.

true dat.

Thruster · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:06:01 PM »

Quote

There hasn't been one more successful attack on US soil since 9/11.

Nor had there been for 60 + years prior. And if the people hired to protect us had just done their jobs there wouldn't have been one then.

whels · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:07:14 PM »

only people that need to fear this , are people doing baaaaad things.

a Law abiding citizen, has nothing to fear, and their rights arent
infringed on.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:07:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Maybe next time you'll be in the building the terrorists destroy.

Because thats the real problem isn't it? A-hab, the A-rab, can come into this country on a visa, or even illegally, comm all he wants on cell phones, and LawEnforcement is hindered by the stringent legal requirements that have to be met before his cell phone can be tapped.

As it stands now nobody is secretly listening in on your phone calls tho its true the NSA has been collecting data on millions of calls to try and ID patterns. And its also true that they have been listening in on phone calls made to outside the USA by persons of interest. But one end of the call has to reach outside our borders. And anyone who leaves a cell phone on leaves a record of where they were at and when. The NSA has nothing to do with that.

I myself dont want A-hab making calls to his buddies in Afghanistan or Pakistan and to do so under protection of US law. Thats the kind of stupidity that got us blowed up in the first place. By the same token, should they find A-hab, I dont much care if they dunk him under water to get him to tell us where his buddies are.

The ACLU never protected one American from a terrorist attack and they aren't about to now. Right now we need to be smart about terrorism because the terrorists have already taken a lot of our rights away.

But just to be safe, if you are a drug dealer or pulling armed robberies?? Probably best to not use the cell phone.

George Bush can go to bed at night knowing he's done his duty in protecting his country. There hasn't been one more successful attack on US soil since 9/11.

Hmm seems simple enough. Monitor call traffic. then when you find a person on interest aqquire a warrant to tap in and listen to the phone calls.

Seems fair and consitutional to me.

What I dont want is them able and allowed to tap anyones phones on a whim without a warrant under the guise its for my "protection"

If allowed. Its only a matter of time before such warrantless wire taps are allowed for more then just Terrorists and drug trafficers

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:08:58 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thruster
Nor had there been for 60 + years prior. And if the people hired to protect us had just done their jobs there wouldn't have been one then.

And under already existing laws at that

Rich46yo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:09:08 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lumpy
I would rather risk that than live in a police state.

Most people would say that now. I'll bet most people in those buildings felt that way before those planes hit, "tho no doubt they had a change of heart when they had to jump from the 90'th floor". Thing is for the NSA to listen one end of the call has to go overseas and they have to have reason to listen. The info they get from phone companies is just consumer information.

I spent 18 mos in a Police state ruled by a Military Junta. That's why I always laugh when I hear Americans compare this country to that.

America is not becoming a Police State. Were just trying to not be as stupid.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:13:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by whels
only people that need to fear this , are people doing baaaaad things.

a Law abiding citizen, has nothing to fear, and their rights arent
infringed on.

Yanno I bet those very same words were uttered by Reinhard Heydrich,Heinrich Müller, Joseph Goebbels, Stalin,Lavrenti Beria, And Joe Mcarthy in their time too.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:16:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rich46yo
Most people would say that now. I'll bet most people in those buildings felt that way before those planes hit, "tho no doubt they had a change of heart when they had to jump from the 90'th floor". Thing is for the NSA to listen one end of the call has to go overseas and they have to have reason to listen. The info they get from phone companies is just consumer information.

I spent 18 mos in a Police state ruled by a Military Junta. That's why I always laugh when I hear Americans compare this country to that.

America is not becoming a Police State. Were just trying to not be as stupid.

Yea, and I know a guy who spent 20 years in one.
He would dissagree with you.

Saxman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:20:53 PM »

"Those who desire security at the expense of liberty deserve NEITHER."

Not the exact wording, but more or less. This comes from a very smart man, maybe some of you have heard of him:

Benjamin Franklin

Rich46yo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:22:39 PM »

So what are you saying? That you are against allowing the NSA to eavesdrop on overseas calls, by persons of interest, while under the guidance of a secret court that supervises over it, and, writes the warrants for it?

Or are you against the blanket immunity given to phone companies who turn over basic subscriber info to the NSA who then enters it into computers looking for terrorist patterns? Or do you even know what this is exactly about? Did you know about it before reading the one Google news clipping?

If your against the second then prepare for all the lawsuits against the phone companies by all the lawyers. Because that's who the ACLU is protecting. Themselves! And their cash flow.

Rich46yo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:28:17 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yanno I bet those very same words were uttered by Reinhard Heydrich,Heinrich Müller, Joseph Goebbels, Stalin,Lavrenti Beria, And Joe Mcarthy in their time too.

Weren't you the one that said History was littered with Democracies that turned into Fascist states? Im still waiting for you to tell me which ones did.

And your above statement shows a total and complete ignorance of actual history. But, I guess it sounds good. Very compelling. As is your mystery friend.

Its funny but most people here distrust Government cause its trying to take their guns away. But the ones backing this terrorism bill are also the ones mostly blocking anti-gun legislation.

BTW Congress is going to end up backing this legislation. Or most of it.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2008, 01:30:57 PM »

Im against secret courts of ANY kind

Im against forcing Tele companies to turn over pohoen records on the masses as opposed ti specific individuals.

somehow I think our SS units can monitor traffic going overseas without forcing the Tele companies to give them all their info