Author Topic: Global warming evidence, a question...  (Read 1021 times)

Offline lazs2

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2002, 08:48:08 AM »
thrawn... are you saying that what is happening now is unprecedented?   seems like the glacers must have receded at this rate at some time..  You could be right tho... could you please post the recorded temps and data for the last several thousand years?

Oh... could you tell me?   Milk and eggs.... good or bad for me now?
lazs

Offline miko2d

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2002, 09:05:18 AM »
Thrawn: Miko, where are the glaciers progressing?

 Apparently the ice is accumulating in Antarctica - even faster than usuall - not the floating ice that does not displace water but the icecap on the solid ground.

 Which would not be much surprise. The temperatures over the South Pole are lower that usuall - which is the cause for unusually large "ozone hole" die to formation of ice clouds at unusually high altitudes.

 The ice also still accumulates in Greenland. I would not be surprise if it accumulated in Canada as well. Europe's glaciers are melting

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Vaughn, D.G., Bamber, J.L., Giovinetto, M., Russell, J. and Cooper, A.P.R.  1999.  Reassessment of net surface mass balance in Antarctica.  Journal of Climate 12: 933-946.
 The authors used more than 1800 published and unpublished in situ measurements of the surface mass balance of Antarctica to produce an updated assessment of yearly ice accumulation over the continent.
 Their results indicate that the "total net surface mass balance for the conterminous grounded ice sheet is 1811 Gton yr-1 (149 kg m-2 yr-1) and for the entire ice sheet including ice shelves and embedded ice rises, 2288 Gton yr-1 (166 kg m-2 yr-1)."
 The authors note that "these values are around 18% and 7% higher than the estimates widely adopted at present," which were derived about 15 years ago.  Hence, they are indicative of the fact that net icefall on Antarctica may well be somewhat greater than what has been believed over the last decade and a half.
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NASA: Each year, about 8 mm of water from the entire surface of the Earth’s oceans accumulates as snow on Greenland and Antarctica. The average ice accumulation on Greenland is about 26cm/yr and Antarctica about 16cm/yr (please note accumulation is in water amounts, or about 5 times greater in snowfall).
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Mosley-Thompson, E., L.G. Thompson, J.F. Paskievitch, M. Pourchet, A.J. Gow, M.E. Davis and J. Kleinman. 1995
 South Pole snow accumulation has increased in recent decades
Annals of Glaciology, 21, 182-188.
 This paper summarizes the 37-year history of net accumulation measurements at the geographic South Pole obtained by numerous investigators using a variety of techniques. These data lead to the conclusion that annual net snow accumulation has increased in the vicinity of South Pole Station since 1955... The results indicatie that annual net snow accumulation has increased in the vicinity of South Pole Station (SPS) by more than 20% in the last two decades.... Further, the accumulation increase at South Pole appears consistent with increases observed at other locations on the east Antarctic Plateau, and in the Peninsula region as well. These data suggest that the recent accumulation increase at South Pole Station (SPS) may be regionally extensive over the East Antarctic Plateau.
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 miko

Offline Hortlund

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2002, 09:18:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by miko2d

 The Gulfstream has a built-in mechanism that causes it's disruption every few hundred of years followed by a local ice age.

Can you explain how that mechanism works? Its the first Ive heard of it, and I got curious. Also, I havent heard of any such mini ice age. The only thing coming close must be three harsh winters we had in 1600-something, but I think calling that an ice age is a bit of a stretch.

Sidenote: in 700-something (dont quote me on the exact year), something definitively happened over here though. Before that we had similar climate to the Med, it was even possible to grow grapes around where I live. Then, bam, over the cource of a couple of years, the climate changed to what it is now (lets just say that the grape-farmers are screwed around here).

Offline ra

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2002, 09:49:05 AM »
Quote
The only thing coming close must be three harsh winters we had in 1600-something, but I think calling that an ice age is a bit of a stretch.

That was more like 150 harsh winters, it was a mini-iceage.
http://www.csmonitor.com/durable/2000/08/24/p16s2.htm
« Last Edit: December 10, 2002, 09:52:06 AM by ra »

Offline miko2d

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2002, 10:24:54 AM »
Hortlund: Can you explain how that mechanism works? Its the first Ive heard of it, and I got curious.

 I've just did it a few posts above:
The european glaciers and polar icecap accumulate during that mini-ice age time. The gulfstream restarts and it's salt water brings a lot of heat north, releases it into the athmosphere. The colder water sinks down and returns back and that is what keeps it going.
 After a while the polar icecaps and Greenlang/Island glasiers melt and cover the area with few feet of fresh water. The gulfstream's dense salty water even though it is warmer, cannot get to the surface and release heat as well. So it does not sink. The gulfstream stops and the ice-age starts again.


 More accurately would be not just european but arctic glaciers. There is plenty of info on the web - just do a search on Gulfstream and related terms.
 You may want to search for a term 'halocline' or 'polar halocline catastrophe' too.

Also, I havent heard of any such mini ice age. The only thing coming close must be three harsh winters we had in 1600-something, but I think calling that an ice age is a bit of a stretch.

 Sometimes it's called "Little Ice age" and it covers a bit more than three harsh winters - more like 300. Plenty of info on the web too.

For about 400 years, much of the earth's climate inexplicably warmed up - a time now known as the Medieval Warm Period. Temperatures may have averaged 2 to 3 degrees C higher than today.
 Sea ice off the coast of Iceland nearly vanished for three centuries. The effects seem to have spread to North America, where in AD 900 Eskimos settled Ellesmere Island at the usually frigid northwest corner of Greenland. In Alaska, a warming trend was detected. And in the Rocky Mountains, the new warmth pushed the snow line about 1,000 feet higher than where it stands today.
 Then a chill set in. Slowly at first. People didn't want to believe it. Farmers were reluctant to give up their new fields. Settlers on Greenland held on for as long as possible. But the steadily expanding cold was irresistible by the 1200s. Unspeakable hardships began to take hold in much of the world. In Iceland, extensive grasslands that had supported sheep, goats, and cattle from AD 874 had receded by 1200. Farming became so difficult that Icelanders turned to fishing and the hunting of seals to support themselves. The population fell sharply.
 By the late 1500s, temperatures continued to plunge, and the Little Ice Age firmly gripped much of the world.
 Life changed for millions of people. In Europe, there was immense suffering. Crops failed. The poor grew poorer. Infanticide and abortion increased as families ran out of food. Several Eskimos, driven south by ice, paddled as far as Scotland. The Thames River at London froze frequently in the 1600s. "Frost fairs" atop the Thames became common in the 1700s, and in 1820 it was so cold that river ice was reported as five feet thick.
 By 1700, Iceland was surrounded with sea ice that made commerce with the rest of the world hazardous. And in faraway China, citrus groves that had survived for centuries froze in Jiangxi province. The Little Ice Age lasted anywhere from 400 to 700 years. Exact dates are uncertain. There were no thermometers during much of this period. Some suggest it didn't end until around 1900.


 miko

Offline beet1e

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Greenland's warm spell.
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2002, 10:35:56 AM »
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Offline lazs2

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Global warming evidence, a question...
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2002, 02:35:50 PM »
So it really does appear that all my 8 mpg hot rodding has been rewarded with the slowing of the inevitable ice age and the returning to normal tempretures eh?   If you were any kind of a guy you would send me a rebate.   Well... I'm off to the wrecking yard to cut some r34 air conditioner hoses.

still tho thrawn... I'm sure you know... milk and eggs.... good or bad?
lazs