Apache Retreat at Karbala

[MotorOil]

Ya, sounds like poor planning, bad intelligence and an underestimation of the opposition.  Call it all bad luck if you will.  

As for canceling the Comanche, sounds like some politics were involved and an overall change in tactics made the Comanche obsolete or overkill in it's designed roll.

[Dinger]

The airforce has those fixed-wing aircraft, not the army.  Besides, the USAF has wanted to get rid of the A-10 since it first entered service.
Oh yeah, and a helo can give you eyes on target a lot easier than a jet flying at 300 mph. It's much less likely to engage inflatable tanks.

[muckmaw]

I understand that Dinger.

However, my point is, if we have fixed wing aircraft that can do the job just as well, with more safety, why are we using the Apache or any helicopter for that matter?

Visual ID is most important in CAS missions, which can still be fulfilled my rotary wings, but Strikes should be carried out by fixed.

BTW, the A-10's usually attack at under 250 Kts.

However, both A-10s and Apaches use stand off weapons. The a-10 uses the AGM-65 Maverick and the Apache uses the hellfire.

Do either of these weapons allow VisID of targets?

[Halo]

Nice thread and intro, Yeager.  

Joint ops with plenty of augmentation and support, mostly not obvious at the point of engagement, have always been the answer.

High tech is synonymous with reach.  When high tech gets in range of low tech, much of high tech advantage is negated.

[Furball]

will be great when the British get their Apache Longbows into service,  Best attack helicopter in the world, in the controls of the best pilots in the world.

none of this "you think we will fit through there? look how big that is!" mumbo jumbo.

[lasersailor184]

Muck, outer service communications are shady on a good day.  Hell, inner service communications are shady on a good day.


The more people you have to contact, the longer it will take and the larger the propensity for something to go wrong.




Btw, I prefer Cobras to Apaches.

[Otto]

Originally posted by Nilsen10
They were aparently told by their top brass that it would be a "walk in the park".  

What self-serving twaddle,  Do you actually believe a commander leading troops into battle would actually say that!?

[Pei]

Originally posted by Furball
will be great when the British get their Apache Longbows into service,  Best attack helicopter in the world, in the controls of the best pilots in the world.

none of this "you think we will fit through there? look how big that is!" mumbo jumbo.

They would be in service now but for the fact that the MoD failed to provide a budget for training pilots: as it is many of them will sit in storage while crew are trained a few at a time.

[tapakeg]

The apache was designed as a Tank buster. Over the years we have not had hordes of soviet tanks, but "small intensity conflicts" It's role has changed from tank killer to CAS. It was always designed to attack from a distance, not to charge into battle.  It's windows on the side are plastic for gods sake.  And while the panels protecting the boxes are kevlar, they are vulnerable to ground fire.

     I would listen to General Cody on the Apache.  He was an Apache pilot in the 101st and led the Task Force Nomandy mission in which the Apaches took down an Iraqi radar facility opening the door for the Air Force.

Good aircraft, wrong mission.


Tapakeg

[Furball]

Originally posted by Pei
They would be in service now but for the fact that the MoD failed to provide a budget for training pilots: as it is many of them will sit in storage while crew are trained a few at a time.

Yup, the British have kick arse personnel and a totally incompetent government.

Training is top notch but equipment and funding is rather lacking.

eejits.