help from the 38 jocks out there please

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Murdr
....
As to the accelerated stall/spin, a quick burst of asemetrical power will quickly get you out of it (eg. throttle back the engine on the outside of the rotation).  I have engine selections mapped to the stick, but when I didnt, I was still quick enough using the key commands to get out of it.

OK, I only feel MODERATELY dweebish for asking -- but I cant get the differential engne controls to respond. I have X45 with throttle, and I can turn one engine or the other off on the ground, but in the air I cant get the keyboard commands to turn throttle or single engine start off or on. I have default settings for keyboard, and I'm trying the "SHIFT-1" to select followed by -/=.

Is the X45 throttle overriding the keyboard? I have joystick settings so that the saitek throttle is throttle 1, and "nothing" is in throttle 2 per joystick.

ANy suugestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Murdr]

Try Shift_1 and operate your x45 throttle, and the left engine should respond to the throttle while the right stays at the previous setting.  If the engine function, be it throttle, prop pitch, on/off, wep, is assigned to the stick, it still operates with the stick on a single selected engine.  Same goes with a function assigned to the keyboard still operating on the keyboard.  

If not look into keymap and confirm the select engine commands are mapped.  I think they are by defult, but cant remember for certian.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by pellik
Just to nit-pick (and I don't mean cherry-picking knights ), power needs to be on and above maybe 10% for this to happen. If power is off in this situation the 38 will just float it out in a way that is, quite possibly, some sort of FM bug.

-p.

Ive always had an assumption about that.  The flaps start funneling air toward the fore of the wing as the 38 falls.  The props are in a position slightly less than perpendicular to the direction of travel, and while they cant produce enough thrust for forward momentum in that situation, they do produce just enough to prevent the nose from going down.  Dont know if that's correct, but that was my attempt to make some sense of it.

That is a good point though.  I usually know what's comming and already have flaps retracted before the 38 gets locked in that position.  I think that is the fastest recovery, but I never tested it.  Its simply the method I use.  Removing power from the equation works too.

[Kweassa]

Naudet, what I found about the 190s is that you don't want to swing the nose over to the 'backside' - ie) like how the P-38s would do it. The P-38s would go straight up, reach near zero airspeed and then it would flip over purely to the pitch direction, do a back flop and then point nose down.

 If you do this in a 190, it could either work, or fall into a flat spin. The recently upgraded 190s (which HT says no FM changes but defiantely feels different... weird, eh?) are a lot better, but it's still a bit too dangerous. If you feel the flat spin coming you have to turn the engine off and neutralize the yaw direction movement immediately to reduce the impact of the temporary inverted flat spin.

 In a Ta152H.. well.. You'll display a nice, big "falling Cruciform" performance if you attempt a pure 90d vertical. It doesn't even flat spin. It falls straight down in that position.

 What I've learned is, in the 190s you have to stall out and point nose down sideways. Head straight up, stall out, and then with about 50% throttle engaged, coax the plane with slight slight rudder kicks, so it starts falling sideways to the direction of the torque(left) - and at the same time maintain certain amount of aileron input to the opposite side(right) so the plane doesn't start to spin as it reverses.

 If you do it right, it will go straight up, and then reverse direction sideways(by pure leftside yawing), nose down, and then come down. I can get the 190s down to about 50mph in the vertical and then recover safely, using this method. The real 190 gurus can get it down to 0~20mph I believe.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Murdr
Try Shift_1 and operate your x45 throttle, and the left engine should respond to the throttle while the right stays at the previous setting.  If the engine function, be it throttle, prop pitch, on/off, wep, is assigned to the stick, it still operates with the stick on a single selected engine.  Same goes with a function assigned to the keyboard still operating on the keyboard.  

If not look into keymap and confirm the select engine commands are mapped.  I think they are by defult, but cant remember for certian.

Works fine!! Thanks!!  



Now for the hard, lots of practice part.......

[Naudet]

Kweassa, for me that doesn't work. Or i just have not enough fine tuning with the rudder input.
The problem i am always confronted with in that situation is that the nose actually won't fall below the horzion. If in that situation i give a little rudder to yaw the nose further around, the plane just stalls out and spins.
Aileron input won't help to stabelize the plane for me.
Maybe my problem is that i either use 100% throttle or none at all, will try out the 50% on the WE.

On the other hand, i have managed a few times to reverse the D9 at very low speed by simply letting the plane go vertical, cut engine, than wait till it stalls out, falls backwards and noses down. Than i push the nose down hard, start the engine and the plane is immediatly back in controlled flight.
The hard part here is to have the bird going straight up, if it yaws to much it will spin out.

What i find interesting is the fact that the stall characteristics of the "new" FW190 fit much more to the description of K. Tank himself. Even if in a flat spin, neutralizing the controls, cutting throttle and than a slight forward pressure on the stick and the plane recovers.

[Kweassa]

Here's a pic like Murdr made.



 The above pic was done using a Fw190A-5, The first one was a bit messy with a 360 twist at the top, but nonetheless the speed was recorded at 39mph TAS at the top of the arc. Right after the reversal I regained control.

 The second one was a bit cleaner, with about 100~180 degrees 'twist' at the top. Usually this is how I do it. The 190 gurus would do it a lot cleaner. The speed was recorded at 33mph TAS at the of the arc.

 It's kinda hard to explain, but as you plane stalls out to the left due to torque, you should apply full right aileron to hold back as much roll as possible.. and then, when it can be held back no longer, let go of the aileron and send it neutral, and kick the rudder oppositely to the right. The 190 would 'flop' and reverse, nose pitching downwards as it rolls on its roll axis. The reversal is sudden and quick.

 While I'm not really good at this, the results are as seen - I could  manage a 30mph vertical. The same could be done with new 190A-8s and new D-9s. The only 190 variant I'd never ever try it is the old Ta152.
 
 Maybe I can send you the film if it helps, since the cockpit aielron/rudder movements are displayed now.

[Naudet]

Hehe Kweassa, my inputs are not different than yours. WE both are actually trying to do a clean wingover, using the standard technique of rudder in directin of torque (for FW190 left rudder) opposite aileron to overcome yaw induced roll (right aileron for FW190).

The problem is that the move - though possible with a FW190 - is anything but practicable in a combat situation and not really advisable to do against such vertical stable planes as the P38.

Btw how do you make screenshots from films? Just Print and Paste into Paint?

[Kweassa]

Well, clean wingovers are impossible (at least for the AH 190s) unless it is executed over 100mph TAS with some speed to help maneuver the plane. The 'wobbling' recovery is just a method to extend the upgoing part as long as possible.. and its practical too

 Remeber old AH1? Spits would easily hit out to 600 yds. You'd need at least 1.5k distance with a large E advantage to ever attempt a rope-a-dope against Spits. And since the old AH1 190s didn't recover so well, the reversal had to be around 100mph or so.. a lot earlier than it is now.

 Nowadays, with the exception of a few skilled Spit pilots, I can more or less comfortably attempt a rope-a-dope with a spit behind me at 1.0k with a slight E advantage. The Spit would close in as close as 600 mark on the distance counter, but the 190 will still hold down to 30~50mph vertical... and when it reverses nose down, the Spit is starting to drop its nose.

 
 As for the screenshot, I just press the "PrintScreen" key, and paste it to a graphics program (such as MS Paint or Photoshop).

[jetb123]

Ahh this thread needs to be stickyed, anyway I have had many troubles with the
38 and stalling, I had stall limter off. Really I think its because of my joystick. I have to use my left hand to activate flaps, and look around my plane looking for the enemy. Im going to be buying a new stick that will allow me to program some buttons so I can do this easly. In ah1 I seen ack-ack do some uber amazing stuff. Like a plane on his tail just about the same speed, he does a loop in like a split second, and bam that plane is down. Really cool to look at.

[pellik]

Originally posted by jetb123
Ahh this thread needs to be stickyed, anyway I have had many troubles with the
38 and stalling, I had stall limter off. Really I think its because of my joystick. I have to use my left hand to activate flaps, and look around my plane looking for the enemy. Im going to be buying a new stick that will allow me to program some buttons so I can do this easly. In ah1 I seen ack-ack do some uber amazing stuff. Like a plane on his tail just about the same speed, he does a loop in like a split second, and bam that plane is down. Really cool to look at.

I have flaps mapped to the third and fourth most accessable buttons on my stick, right after primary and secondary fire.