Author Topic: FLC has lost its mind (Read 2146 times)

Kieren · « **Reply #30 on:** December 09, 2000, 07:07:00 PM »

What I mean specifically about the Gore standard is that Boies and the Gore team has succeeded in getting Broward to apply a standard for the hand counts they claimed had been used in Illinois. You say it is the legislature that made the standard, and that is not exactly true. The legislative standard is actually no standard at all, and you know that. It says "any indication of the intent of the voter". Well Boies and the Gore team chooses to interpret this to mean the loosest possible standards- that is, they allowed even the most microscopic mark in the presidential column as a vote. Moreover, they looked at the card and checked for party-line votes. They then assumed the person would have voted for the president in the column. As I have said before, any reasonable uncertainty could be interpreted any direction. Palm Beach chose to use what I believed to be a very reasonable standard, that is, they chose to see if there was a consistant pattern of dimples- if the whole card was dimpled, the vote counted. I, and I am sure any reasonable person would agree, believe that is completely fair. Trouble is PBC got sued by the Gore team for doing so.

That is my entire problem with the hand recount. It isn't that I care if the votes are counted, because I really think they should. But no one watching what has happened in Florida can honestly believe corruption hasn't happened in the process. Both the Republicans and the Democrats will be forced to use unethical standards if the recounts begin anew, as they will be quite certain the other side will use the loosest possible interpretation of the law to "find" votes.

This is no way to pick a president.

Kieren · « **Reply #31 on:** December 09, 2000, 07:16:00 PM »

...and another point, you are applying a quote from me out of context.

When I said the hand count was too selective, it was within the context of only Democratic counties hand counting. You make it sound like I was arguing against too strenuous standards in those counties. This is not true.

Cobra · « **Reply #32 on:** December 09, 2000, 07:53:00 PM »

How's this for irony.....Bush could actually win a state-wide hand recount. Why do you think the Gore folks only wanted re-counts in 3 VERY Democratic counties. It's not because they wanted to save all that work...hehe.

Think about..only ask for 3 democratic counties to be hand re-counted, go to Sauls asking for only those 3 counties, appeal to FSC for only those 3 counties. I bet ya Gore got just a little nervous when the FSC said state-wide.

And, I know Bush could have asked as well, that's the irony that he could actually win a state-wide hand recount.

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 12-09-2000).]

Mighty1 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 09, 2000, 09:22:00 PM »

Bore and his lap dog Boise have said all along that the Floriduh Supreme Court would be the final say in this election but it was Bush and his lawyers who said to hell with your court my court(USSC) is the one that will decide it.

Guess who's court is bigger?

Still there is a chance Bore can win but it looks like a very slim one.

Nash · « **Reply #34 on:** December 10, 2000, 04:31:00 AM »

Fatty - thanks, that's good info there. Yeah, when looking into the Texas punch ballot vs optical scanner areas, they were mostly in the poor areas.... but as far as Florida, your right, I was regurgitating reports from the news. I defer to you as ya seem to have a lot better handle on it.

Just throwing this out there... as a possibility for those reports (?). Do they use the same voting system for the entire county? ie, counties are made up of individual voting precincts. Lets take Miami for example - would they use punch ballots for the entire city or is it possible that the suburbs had optical scanners while the inner city etc. used punch ballots?

Eagler · « **Reply #35 on:** December 10, 2000, 11:24:00 AM »

The voting method varied from district to district. And there wasn't a conspiracy to place the flaky methods in certain districts as Jesse Jackson and the circus would lead you to believe.

I'm surprised the USSC was a 5 to 4 split decision. Amazing, they can't even interpret the law uniformly.

I've seen a scenario where as two sets of electors would be sent to the Senate and House. They would each choose one, setting up a tie which would be broken by the governor of Fl, Jeb, George's brother. Talk about a democratic media spinning heyday. I hope it doesn't go that route.

Eagler

Dowding · « **Reply #36 on:** December 10, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »

I've got a question about the 'Dimpled' chads.

Basically I'm preparing for my RAF officer selection interview, and I've got to prepare in depth analyses on six home affairs and six foreign. One of the foreign issues is the US elections, specifically the claims that the voters in Florida were confused and/or the voting system was flawed.

How many of the cards have dimpled chads, before they are punched, or are they all verified to be blemish free before use?

Cheers.

Fatty · « **Reply #37 on:** December 10, 2000, 12:34:00 PM »

What Eagler said Nash. I'm not positive they don't, but the ballots (items up for vote I mean) are the same within the district, so it would be silly to have a bunch of different methods for the exact same voting list. This (and the primary) was actually my first Texas vote, so you probably know more than me about outside my precinct here than I do, about all I can definitively say is we used pencil marked ballots for an optical scanner in mine

I think one of the reasons for the reports is the democrats really do tend to completely ignore the rural poor. The Gold Coast does have the highest population, so if you take strict numbers (as they did in justifying selecting Dade despite a low % undercount, citing a high total number), they probably do have more.

That area also tends to overshadow the rest of florida a bit in the news, and honestly part of it is probably someone looking for rationale just forgot about the state north of Orlando. This tends to piss us in the northern part of the state off a bit, as the majority of residents in southeast Florida aren't even from Florida, but that's a whole different topic

Nash · « **Reply #38 on:** December 10, 2000, 01:13:00 PM »

Hehe yeah, we aint going there.

... though I got a sinkin' feeling Eagler is gonna be jumpin' all over that one...

Eagler · « **Reply #39 on:** December 10, 2000, 05:37:00 PM »

Fatty is correct about SE FL. Immigrants and retirees are the majority there. It's not FL to real Floridians as I. SE FL has been going downhill for the last 25 years. English is second language.

Eagler