Author Topic: Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.  (Read 2109 times)

Offline FrodeMk3

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2006, 04:38:04 AM »
esohn,

     With all due respect, I have no idea how long you've been enjoying the AH experience; I myself can proudly claim I'm on my 3rd year...But the one thing I realized from when I first logged on, was this:

        THIS IS A FLIGHT SIMULATOR WITH SOME GV'S THROWN IN

     I'm sure that Battlefield2, Star Wars Battlfrone, WW2OL, HALO, any of those games can scratch that itch. I really don't want this to come across as a flame, but honestly, It's a flight sim, like Air Warrior, Jane's, and Warbirds before it. Remember that when you log on, and you'll see why the commercial ads say FLY Aces High.-Frode

Offline scottydawg

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2006, 11:24:15 AM »
I'm with FrodeMk3 on this...  it is a WWII air combat simulator with GVs, because GVs and aircraft interact in combat.  I don't see how adding FPS capabilities would improve that.

Seriously, there are some really good online FPS WWII games already.  My opinion is that AH is the premier WWII MMO air combat sim/game... why would they undertake such a Herculean effort to make it into an FPS-style game?  IMHO that would be crazy... plus they're a small company, you need to write or buy a metric crapload of code (coad) just to get started.

Offline hitech

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2006, 12:16:46 PM »
"metric crapload" I like this exprsion, havn't heard it before. And exatly what is it's scale?

Bigger or smaller than?
whole **** load,
Boat load,
Car Load,
Truck load,
Train load,

Offline Mustaine

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« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2006, 12:20:06 PM »
it sounds to me like the relationship of stupid to glatically stupid :D :aok

crapload to metric crapload :D :rofl
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Offline scottydawg

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2006, 12:28:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
"metric crapload" I like this exprsion, havn't heard it before. And exatly what is it's scale?

Bigger or smaller than?
whole **** load,
Boat load,
Car Load,
Truck load,
Train load,


A metric crapload is 1.3 * Imperial (US) craploads. Approximately 0.637 of a metric ****load.

Much larger than a boatload.

Offline esohn

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2006, 12:32:39 PM »
Spectacular developments happen by just a handful of computer junkies.

Take Counter Strike for example. It's not like it's developed by 10s of people in a corporate company. It was 2 guys who made it all happen, if i remember correctly.

Also, Frode, I think i played airwarrior longer than you played AH. And, the gameplay is very very simillar. As fine as AH is, burnout can happen if you play it long enough. And you all know, Airwarrior is no more.

All the while I played airwarrior, I remember keep wishing for the total war experience including foot soldiers. A war game is just not complete without them, and air combat sims do get thin when you play them long enough, even for a flying simulation enthusiasts like me.

It's not that I just want to do away my itch to play FPS game. I can load up the Counter Strike, no problem. It's just my wish to experince the total war simulation, and I just feel that Aces High is very close to achieving that.

And, it's the only way to go for Aces High to make it a long lasting game. All other aspects are almost perfect as it is, only minus the soldier control.

Esohn

Offline scottydawg

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« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2006, 12:39:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by esohn
Spectacular developments happen by just a handful of computer junkies.

Take Counter Strike for example. It's not like it's developed by 10s of people in a corporate company. It was 2 guys who made it all happen, if i remember correctly.

Also, Frode, I think i played airwarrior longer than you played AH. And, the gameplay is very very simillar. As fine as AH is, burnout can happen if you play it long enough. And you all know, Airwarrior is no more.
Esohn


Esohn,

I also played AW, as did quite a few other AH members.

The reason that AW died, plain and simple, is that EA bought it and ruined it. Then they killed it.

I see where you are coming from when you talk about the 'full WWII sim experience', although I don't share your feelings, and I'm not sure many others do either. I'm not saying it's not valid, I just don't know how many current users outside yourself share this itch.

Offline Sabre

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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2006, 12:47:02 PM »
With respect to Frodo and Scotty, many people complained that the introduction of ground vehicles would "ruin" the game, with many calls of "It's a flight sim, stupid" hurled around.  There are purists who still gripe about gv'ers constantly ruining their fun.  The fact is, the introduction of gv's added another dimension that many have come to love about it.  It was done in a skillful way that, rather than ruin the pure pilot's fun, actually adds a dimension to the airwar that was lacking before.  Given HiTech's expressed desires to add submarines and ground troops (albeit in a somewhat limited fashion), it should be clear his long-term vision for AH is to make it accessable and enjoyable to a wider range of interests than just sim pilots; nonetheless, his vision is constrained by his commitment to maintain the airwar as the principle focus.

HiTech, I know you don't want to introduce the ground war in half measures, hence your comments on the resources you'll need to "do it right."  However, I wonder how difficult it would be to allow players to spawn a trooper using the current non-articulated pilot model (in a different uniform, of course) and with the option to select from a limited range of weapons (riffle, grease gun, panzerschek, satchle charge, for example).  This seems like a relatively easy and quick way to playtest the introduction of troops into the arena.

Fighting your way through an underground bunker (ala "Doom") is all very well, but allows no interaction with the other combat elements.  Some would say that's how it should be.  That interaction is what would separate the game from your average run of the mill FPS.  Without that interaction, I can't see the addition of bunker-style FPS play as being a draw to outside players, those more interested in ground combat vs. A2A.  Just my two cents worth.
Sabre
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Offline scottydawg

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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2006, 12:58:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre
With respect to Frodo and Scotty, many people complained that the introduction of ground vehicles would "ruin" the game, with many calls of "It's a flight sim, stupid" hurled around.  There are purists who still gripe about gv'ers constantly ruining their fun.  The fact is, the introduction of gv's added another dimension that many have come to love about it.  It was done in a skillful way that, rather than ruin the pure pilot's fun, actually adds a dimension to the airwar that was lacking before.  Given HiTech's expressed desires to add submarines and ground troops (albeit in a somewhat limited fashion), it should be clear his long-term vision for AH is to make it accessable and enjoyable to a wider range of interests than just sim pilots; nonetheless, his vision is constrained by his commitment to maintain the airwar as the principle focus.


Sabre,

I definitely haven't said that it would ruin the game.  I don't think it would.  I would just be concerned with 'scope creep' and the massive outlay of resources it would take to add in that aspect of gameplay, and how much it would actually add to the game as a whole.

To look at it from the other end of the telescope, how many people do you think are asking the developers of CoD2 to add airplanes to the game?

Offline FrodeMk3

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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2006, 02:03:46 PM »
...One thing that has also been overlooked, and this is the best time to ask, since Hitech's been watching this post...

     If implemented , what would the effect on the player's system be?
There are already alot of people that barely have enough computer to drive AH2 the way it is...If you put in all the extra things that Hitech mentioned would be needed to drive a(n) FPS element to the existing game, What would become the minimum system required to play?? Most people can't afford to just pick up the phone, call Alienware, and have the latest Top of the line system(read, 3500-6000$US) delivered immiediately.
I'm kinda curious to see what Hitech will say about this...
     -Frode

Offline 4deck

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Nice Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2006, 04:13:50 PM »
What a read.
FIrst I'd like to state WHAT A FRIGGING AWESOME GAME.
There that said. Im mixed on the troops right now. I was very into a FPS called Infiltration, it was a mod off of the old Unreal Tournament engine. Was modern day weaps like counterstrike, but kmore underground, and alot of very descent players out there. HArdware was a very serious requirement though. RIght now I play on my laptop, a fairly higher end laptop, but even in the systems business, I cant keep up with all the upgrades for my own equipment. IF it could be done without all the poly counts going through the roof, kewl. Right now I enjoy all aspects of the game. Planes GV's, the fact of being able to join in with someone else, THAT F"N ROX. Also the ability to host 750 simultaniously is very kewl, I experience very little latency. So right now Id have to say about the only place where the troops would be play well is the town. And I agree with thte fact it would be for base capture.
Heres the rub though.
Right now it seems pretty hard to me to get people coordinated for a base capture, let alone find a goon pilot, then have 10 "people" control 10 troops. MAybe something on the order of a "goon pilot" controlling "jumping" to 1-10 positions of the troops, with maybe overall commands for like a lance. Or better yet, maybe 2 people able to join together to control all 10. mixijng a matching weapons.
Anyway its my first post, here
hopefully see u all in my crosshairs sometime
Cheers
Forgot who said this while trying to take a base, but the quote goes like this. "I cant help you with ack, Im not in attack mode" This is with only 2 ack up in the town while troops were there, waiting. The rest of the town was down.

Offline esohn

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Details on a harmless implementation of foot soldiers with minimal modification.
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2006, 06:45:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sabre


Fighting your way through an underground bunker (ala "Doom") is all very well, but allows no interaction with the other combat elements.  Some would say that's how it should be.  That interaction is what would separate the game from your average run of the mill FPS.  Without that interaction, I can't see the addition of bunker-style FPS play as being a draw to outside players, those more interested in ground combat vs. A2A.  Just my two cents worth.


Great point Sabre. That's just what I was thinking. Otherwise, I see no point of adding troop control.

The point is to have FPS element and a full fledged flight sim (not arcade) comming together in all interacting, mind boggling, battle experience.

Battlefield 1942 doesn't cut it. I never played ww2online but it seems to have too many problems in both gameplay and in technical aspect.

I think AH should always be a sim first and then toss in a minimal FPS element. Just let us be the paratroopers and let other players be able to defend the town and the airbases.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 07:02:36 PM by esohn »