The Final Battle Final Score's

[Sled]

Originally posted by Spazzter
Also, it is hard to make an event competitive when you are outnumbered 30 plus pilots in each frame.  I know that is out of the control of the event organizers, but does make it tough to give a good fight.  

IMHO, this is the "meat" of the issue in this event. If one side ups at it's minimums and the other side ups at it's maximums. You are going to have these kinds of problems.

Sounds like most had fun, and that is the real result we are after.

[Nefarious]

Just a look at the Ki67 numbers reveals a little bit more.

Frame 1 = 25  x 3 = 75
Frame 2 = 42  x 3 = 126
Frame 3 = 23  x 3 = 69
Total      = 90  x 3 = 270

Lets Compare Losses...

Frame 1 = 45  = 60% Destroyed
Frame 2 = 64  = 51% Destroyed
Frame 3 = 51  = 74% Destroyed
Total      =160 = 59% Destroyed

[Dantoo]

Is there stats available for the losses of other plane types?  You were once able to get very useful info from innomi's site such as these and k/d ratio and such.  Alas no more.

We've flown Ki67's quite happily in the past, hitting our targets, defending ourselves, and rearming and going again.  Happy to do so in the future.  Can't remember any complaints about Ki67 in the past except how "uber" it is and how it can't be used as a sub for early/midwar Japanese planes.  Reflecting on that, seems kind of strange to hear it maligned for being too weak.  Surely it can't be both?

  Always had a good rtb ratio when using them.  Only problem has been having to slow right down if a drone lost an engine - you get left behind.   Never had a problem getting a defender into the 'painful' quarter simply because of raw speed.  More than happy to demonstrate defensive technique in them if anybody wants to learn.


Rgds

[Stoney74]

Originally posted by Saxman
Just want to point out, though, that the inability of the bombers to reach their targets isn't ALWAYS the fault of the bombers. If bombers are getting massacred, then there's a probability of a failure of both tactics, and that the escorts may not be doing their jobs and share at least part of the blame. Even the big Allied four-engined heavies are lunchmeat if unescorted with poor tactics against sufficient opposition.

Case in point: My squadron was flying CAP in Frame 2 in FM-2s. Although we weren't a major factor ourselves (VF-31 catching the rearming bombers was the difference maker) IMO the bomber strikes weren't well coordinated. The formations were spread out so there was no mutually supporting defensive fire. While hitting from two directions simultaneously--and both high and low--forced us to divide our efforts, because the formations weren't supporting each other we were generally able to take on each set of pilot and drones piecemeal. Additionally, I only recall seeing 2-3 escort fighters, defending a relatively scattered attack force.

Ding!!!  Sax gets the prize.  Properly employed and escorted, any bomber in the plane set can penetrate, drop, and retire intact.  I was one of those escorts in frame 2, and I can tell you, it was a tough mission to set up an escort.  The other problem was that the CIC had 6 fighters escorting 63 bombers.  Had the roles been reversed, it would have been 21 fighters escorting 18 bombers--THAT is a survivable mission, I don't care who you run into...

My $.02

[bongaroo]

didn't mean to sound very upset about it.  i was mostly just trying to point out that some people bring the mentality that the allies should and will win because the axis lost in real life.  that doesn't make a very fun game if people on the axis are expected to loose all the time.

the ki67s are fairly useless to attack a task group with, I hope the CiCs will take note of this.  as someone mentioned earlier, hvy japanese fighters would be much more effective and have a good chance of survival to target and home.

and yes, our escorts in frame 3 seemingly abandoned us, wasn't really happy about that

[Kermit de frog]

Ace, I think our escorts were bored that it took 45 minutes to get to the Task Force so they kindof left us and went to go fight near the spotted TF.  Then they all died soon after they arrived at the TF.  Might have been due to them arriving in small groups instead of 1 large group.

Average performance by our escorts in frames 1 and 3 for us.  It happens all the time, so it's expected.

Attacking a TF with Ki67s doesn't seem to be a good idea.

Lessons learned from this past FSO.

[forHIM]

The mongrels were tasked with attacking a TG in the 2nd frame.  We consciously chose to hit the cruiser and the destroyer since the poundage to kill them justified the lose of a bomber or two.  Where as we would have had to have multiple bomber formations hit the CV to sink it.  As stated in this thread, our escorts who had the dubious task of escorting 23 bomber formations with 6 to 10 escorts did a good job.  We are not a squad who can fly tight formations of bombers, we are a group who will do everything we can to accomplish our assigned task(s).  

In that frame our task was to attack and destroy as much of the TG as we could.  We went after the easy points first and unfortunately our re-arm was found and attacked by the Tomcatters.  We also chose to have split groups.  One low with torpedos and one high with bombs.  We hoped the first group with torps and their escort could draw all the CAP down while the 2nd group came in over the top.  For my first run, this is what happened.

[splitatom]

we atacked a taskgroup in part one and we all died from aa fire not to fighters

[Getback]

Originally posted by bongaroo


and yes, our escorts in frame 3 seemingly abandoned us, wasn't really happy about that

Yeah they did! I dove in on several formations of Ki67s and not an escort to be found. I remember seeing the first set of kis at around 10 - 12k  or less and not one escort. Then a few escorts came in. Way too late. What we expected to see where hi escorts and they were not up there. That was only from my vantage point. For all I know the escorts may have gotten pulled away buy allied fighters in another part of the sector.