Author Topic: Re: German vs. American  (Read 2054 times)

Offline Charge

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Re: German vs. American
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2008, 07:22:47 AM »
Power curve is not the only thing that dictates how high the plane can fly it is also the aerodynamic qualities, i.e. in this case wing loading.

With the same power Spit and 109 the Spit would fly higher due to bigger wing. More thrust would mean more speed, more alt and more maneuvering options, not just flying straight.

I have been under impression that even Spit 1 could fly at 40k. However, the climb rate plots on Spit Perf pages seem to suggest that the climb rate of Mk1 falls to zero at 34-35k.
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

(So to what number does the IX's climb rate point to?)

Wikipedia:

"On 5 February 1952, a Spitfire 19 of No. 81 Squadron RAF based in Hong Kong reached probably the highest altitude ever achieved by a Spitfire. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Ted Powles, was on a routine flight to survey outside air temperature and report on other meteorological conditions at various altitudes in preparation for a proposed new air service through the area. He climbed to 50,000 feet (15,240 m) indicated altitude, with a true altitude of 51,550 feet (15,712 m). The cabin pressure fell below a safe level, and in trying to reduce altitude, he entered an uncontrollable dive which shook the aircraft violently. He eventually regained control somewhere below 3,000 feet (900 m) and landed safely with no discernible damage to his aircraft. Evaluation of the recorded flight data suggested that, in the dive, he achieved a speed of 690 mph (1,110 km/h, Mach 0.94), which would have been the highest speed ever reached by a propeller-driven aircraft."

So, going up there was a serious business and I presume "service ceiling" meaning the maximum safe altitude (and practical), not necessarily the maximum attainable altitude.
Also the power at alt is mandatory for safe flight at such heights so stripping the aircraft of any needless weight seems sensible also from point of view of maximum climb rate. That is because if somebody enters your airspace very very high the radar system may notice it rather late, meaning that you need all the speed and climb ability to catch him before he leaves your airspace, unless you are already patrolling quite high.

-C+


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Offline Krusty

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Re: German vs. American
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2008, 08:59:14 AM »
I don't buy that speed listed. Probably inaccurate, as they did dive tests on spits and the propellor sheers away from the gearbox (or something related to the gear box -- the engine is trashed) well before that mach number.

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: German vs. American
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2008, 09:01:03 AM »
Charge, service ceiling is usually describes as the altitude when the rate of climb falls below 100ft/min.

Offline Charge

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Re: German vs. American
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2008, 10:49:03 AM »
Probably so, not my point exactly, the dive speed, but it was flown in 1952 with a Mk19 so I presume that either the Griffon is more resilient or the "shredder" had already some serious problems with its redu gear or maybe even syphatetic oscillation which may tear the whole a/c apart in the worst case.

One lucky and one unlucky flight does not tell the truth to either direction.

***
Thx Milo for clarification on that one. So it is actually the highest "practical" altitude so that you still have room for maneuvering. Of course with zero climb rate you would have none...

-C+
"When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a giant meteor hurtling to the earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much screwed no matter what you wish for. Unless of course, it's death by meteorite."

Offline Stoney

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Re: German vs. American
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2008, 10:59:00 AM »
Charge, service ceiling is usually describes as the altitude when the rate of climb falls below 100ft/min.

But don't forget that for specialized missions like chasing high altitude recce planes, the performance charts get stretched in actual practice.  The Japanese proved to be a menace against the B-29 in aircraft that shouldn't have had a chance to intercept them on paper.
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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