What we need are some What If planes

[moot]

He219A-0/R2, W.Nr.190009 coded G9+FB, flown by Streib and Fischer on the night of 11th June 1943. Two A-0 types delivered with two types of weapons for comparison trials with I./NJG 1 at Venlo:
He219A-0/R1: 2x wing-root MG151/20, 4x MK108 under the fuselage
He219A-0/R2: 2x wing-root MG151/20, 4x MK103 under the fuselage

This last one is the only way I can see the 219's target area and lumpiness being worthwhile enough for the 219 to be an interesting alternative to the 410.  And then it'd have to be a clean daylight config.

[Angus]

IMHO the Uhu has nothing to do within Ah before we have both night and nightfighting equipment, and that is going to be a lot more than 2 weeks.
For the job, we already have the 110 and the Mossie, as well as the Ju88, - they just have to be tweaked a bit. And they don't come much better than the Mossie. Isn't ours the NF anyway? It's got the dampers I think.
The Beaufighter would IMHO be a better choice, since it was fairly common, and completely multi-role. There you have a nightfighter with radar and quad-hizoo, as well as a rocket-carrying, torpedo carrying mean-horn. Only some 316 mph though. (out of memory). But a 300 mph torp aircraft with quad cannons in the nose is not in AH today 

[Karnak]

Angus,

Our Mossie is a night intruder, not a night fighter.  No radar.

[lyric1]

A little off topic here, how ever the controversy of adding night fighters because we don't have night & we have no ability to add radar to such planes seems to me rather moot. For example our clip board & map showing DAR bar & if they are inside your country's radar ring a bright red dot I would say would have been far ahead of anything that any night fighter jock would have had back in the day.

[Angus]

Angus,

Our Mossie is a night intruder, not a night fighter.  No radar.

But the same exhaust dampers right? Slowing you down, but making the eyesight better. Something very hard to model anyway.
Am I right?

[moot]

Angus, like they said it doesn't really matter if the model was a night fighter.  The real prime criteria is whether it's air combat worthy, how much sense it makes in the MA and scenarios.
And I don't see how in this criteria the Beaufighter is a better alternative.  I'm not saying we shouldn't have it sooner than later.. I'm just curious how it's better.  It's as slow, and packs less punch.  Aside from the torpedo loadout(s).

[Angus]

Well, the Beau has a torp, AND rockets AND quad Hizoo. There is no naval attacker that does that.
If there would be proper modelling of night, with the gadgets that would come with it, the Beau would also be there.
The Beau was also around in many fronts for quite some time.
That was my point.

[Karnak]

But the same exhaust dampers right? Slowing you down, but making the eyesight better. Something very hard to model anyway.
Am I right?

The flame dampers aren't for the Mossie's crew's eyesight.  They are to block the exhaust flame from making you a target to the aircraft sneaking up behind you.

Incidentially, the quad of .303s on the nose did cause problems for the pilot's vision, that is why they are ommited on every Mosquito night fighter after the Mk II.  Well, that and the radar goes in the nose where the guns used to be.

[Angus]

Ahh, I did one mistake. I do recall some comments on flares being blinding for the pilot, but it was on either a Spitfire or a Hurricane. Now there you have the engine in front of you.
BTW, somewhere in my pile, I have an account of a NF Mossie chasing what was probably an "owl". Will have a lookie and post.

[Castle51]

Sorry but being a die hard bomber boy, I couldn't help but bring up what could have been the greatest bomber of the war had it been introduced as planned.  We have enough people bickering and whining about keeping the B-29 out of AH that I thought I'd give them all a look at a REAL untouchable bomber.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/XB-36_first_flight.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/B-29_and_B-36.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/B-36_Peacemaker_-_personnel_and_equipment.jpg

[Karnak]

Ahh, I did one mistake. I do recall some comments on flares being blinding for the pilot, but it was on either a Spitfire or a Hurricane. Now there you have the engine in front of you.
BTW, somewhere in my pile, I have an account of a NF Mossie chasing what was probably an "owl". Will have a lookie and post.

I count sixteen He219s destroyed by Mosquito night fighters or intruders doing a quick scan through the lists of kills.  There are probably one or two more in the unidentified enemy aircraft.

He219 kills by Mosquito mark #:

Mk VI: 2
Mk XIII: 3
Mk XVII: 2
Mk XIX: 5
Mk XXX: 4

[Angus]

There has been discussion of flying boats being added to AH, and the names turning up are the PBY, The Emily, and the Sunderland.
Now, the Sunderland was nicknamed "the Hedgehog" since it was hard to bring down and was well gunned. Here's an article about an off-coast kill which mentions the Sunderland in the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_777


"The following day, German aircraft returned to the area of the downing of BOAC Flight-777 and engaged in a fight with an Australian Short Sunderland flying boat, which was on patrol searching for survivors from the previous day's incident. The Sunderland was severely damaged, but managed to shoot down six of the eight Junkers Ju 88s that attacked it."
Is there a proper foot in this? That's what I found. Incredible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Sunderland#2_June_1943

[FTJR]

Angus, many years ago, I had a book on the Sunderlands operated by the RAAF, entitled. "They shall not pass unseen". It had quite a few stories like that, and that is familar. Unfortunately, i have lost that book.

[Angus]

I count sixteen He219s destroyed by Mosquito night fighters or intruders doing a quick scan through the lists of kills.  There are probably one or two more in the unidentified enemy aircraft.

He219 kills by Mosquito mark #:

Mk VI: 2
Mk XIII: 3
Mk XVII: 2
Mk XIX: 5
Mk XXX: 4

Karnak,  -sorry for the delay. To my disappointment, my book doesn't have much more than the text, so no quick paging. It is good to read though. ISBN 0 907579 16 7 Night Flyer by Lewis Brandon DSO DFC. You probably have it

[MiloMorai]

I count sixteen He219s destroyed by Mosquito night fighters or intruders doing a quick scan through the lists of kills.  There are probably one or two more in the unidentified enemy aircraft.

He219 kills by Mosquito mark #:

Mk VI: 2
Mk XIII: 3
Mk XVII: 2
Mk XIX: 5
Mk XXX: 4

Karnak, where can this list be found. I would like to try to match up the the kills to the 17 known He219s lost in air combat. One of the losses was to a Lancaster.