Does the Tupolev TB-3 have a spot in Aces High?

[Volron]

I am a little curious to what the community's thought is on this aircraft.  So I asked...

I do see a possibility of it having a spot in Aces High, just not any time soon if so.  So very slow and under gunned, it was easy pickings for the Luftwaffe, especially during the day.  However, at the start it was something they had to use against the Germans as they were in bad shape.  They did enjoy some success, just during night time sorties, where even then they were easy pickings.

Like the Ju-52, it would definitely be difficult to model due to it's corrugated skin.

Would you be against the TB-3's addition IF it is qualified to be in Aces High?


P.S.:
Yes, I occasionally play IL-2.
No, it's not "uber" there.  I tend to get shot down quite a bit in it (in single player.  I don't do multi, eff that.  I have Aces High. ).  I know it would be more so here.
Yes, I would LIKE to see it added if it qualifies.  Something an A6M2 would have NO problems catching.  Hell, I think a Kate could run one down.
Yes, I have my flame suit on.

[Greebo]

A Pe-2 would be a much better allocation of resources really. It would be far more survivable in the MA and would have a lot more scenario potential than a TB-3 as well.

[Volron]

I agree with you.  I was just asking if the TB-3 has a spot in Aces High.  If it does qualify, then would anyone be against it's eventual addition?  I wouldn't think so if it qualifies.  I'm thinking along the lines of, "down the road", with this aircraft.  Kind of like the Do-17z...

[Krusty]

It's a pre-war design. While it was used, IMO it has no real place in AH. It meets the general criteria, but it played such a small role. The Soviet Union just didn't need and didn't field long-range strategic bombers. Their entire focus was short range, quick reaction, rough airfields, easily mobile air forces. Heavy bombers just don't fit this doctrine.

[Greebo]

Like Krusty says it fits in the guidelines of what is allowable (saw action at squadron level etc.) However I'd object to time being spent developing a bomber that would be near useless both in the MAs and in scenarios. Your example of the Do 17Z would be a useful scenario ride however. Unlike the TB-3, the Do 17Z saw a lot of daytime action in many campaigns early in the war. In fact the lack of a similar poorly performing early war bomber is a huge hole in the AH planeset scenario-wise. I expect this hole is more likely to be filled by the He 111 though, as it was used more widely and for much longer than the Dornier.

To be honest its a bit of a non-issue anyway, because I can't see any likelihood of a TB-3 ever coming to AH.

[Volron]

Well, what if I ask this....Would you object to it being added if it was the last plane that could be modeled that met the requirements?

While you are right Krusty, about their quick action method, they did field heavy bombers against the Germans.  It was in small numbers and primarily to boost morale, if my information is correct.  But the damage they inflicted was minor, and the losses they suffered were bad.

I can see your points on the plane though, but would question it not being added simply because.  I myself don't see this plane being added until WAY later, in the order of 10+ years, but I do see a possibility as it does meet general requirements.  We'll have the Korean Arena before then though...

I used the Do-17z, not as a comparison on their usability, but as a crude way of "time till addition".  I know that the Do-17z is going to be in Aces High, without question.  And while it will be some time before it's added, I await it's arrival.

Since I have some attention on the subject of Russian bombers, I would like to ask; What would be considered the best addition at this point?  You mentioned the Pe-2 but is there another bomber that would actually be considered "better"?  If YOU had a choice in the matter, what bomber would it be?

[Krusty]

Considering that the Pe-2 was the forefront of VVS attack/bomber aircraft through most of the war and was the main workhorse for bombing stuff, and considering many thousands were made and used in just about every action the VVS undertook....

Yes, I consider that a better plane to add than the almost-never-used-morale-booster TB-3.

[EDIT: I know that's not exactly what you asked, but I was making a point.]

IMO Ah shouldn't ever really have EVERY plane that ever existed in WW2. We should get the major players. The ones you would actually encounter in WW2. The ones that played parts. IMO this is why the Meteor doesn't really have much of a home here. It didn't really DO much. Same for the TB-3. Hey, if we get it, we get it. If not I definitely won't be voting for it anytime soon.

[Volron]

I'm not pressing for the TB-3, just asking about it and having a conversation about it.   I was expecting to be flame pretty hard about it.  Your comment if, "Hey, if we get it, we get it.", means that either way, it wouldn't be something that you are against, or so that's my current understanding.  You got to admit though, it's something that was at least USED in the war vs some of the planes we've seen in the wishlist.

As for the Pe-2, I would agree with you and Greebo.  You guys have been here far longer than I have, and have a grasp on what could be added that would fill holes in our existing plane set.  I definitely won't complain when it comes to the addition of a bomber.  For me, the more options I have, the better.

Which version of the Pe-2 would be best to get though?  Pe-2 or possibility the Pe-2FT? (mind you this is wiki info)  How often do you think it would get used in the MA?  I know that it would definitely see use in scenario's, snapshots and FSO; and the Russians are in need of a bomber.

[Greebo]

The Pe-2, Il-4 and Tu-2 would be the best Soviet bombers to introduce to AH IMO. The Pe-2 is the best scenario ride as it was widely used for the whole war. The Tu-2 is the best MA ride but was a late war bomber and not widely used. The Il-4 was an important bomber early war but increasingly was used at night as the war progressed. Also its a bit of a dead duck in the MA compared to the other two and the Betty is a reasonable sub for it in scenarios, I even did a Bettski skin for it.

I'd guess the AH Pe-2 might be a composite affair with various versions' armament options available in the hangar, a bit like our I-16.

[Volron]

I recall seeing a thread about the I-16, and how it's (apparently) a combination of different variants, kind of like our F4F-3/4.  So the Pe-2 would get a similar addition?  I can understand as it would save a TON of time vs having to model each variant separately.  At which point, I am curious to what engine the Pe-2 will get.  Will it be something that would be "in the middle" or would it be the best engine it had during the war?

I would guess that the Tu-2 would get added before or with the Pe-2.  The DB-3/Il-4 would probably get added before something like the Do-17z, but not well before it.

Do you happen to have your eye on a skin for the Pe-2 when it's added?  Or are you going to wait till it's been decided to add it?

[Greebo]

The composite Pe-2 was just my guess, HTC may decide to do it as two or more versions. I've not really researched the Pe-2 in any depth but I wasn't aware of it having more than one type of engine. I'd also guess the Pe-2 would be the most likely of the three aircraft to be modelled first.

I'm not necessarily the one who'd skin it but even if I do, which colour scheme to use is not going to be a priority. There's a few weeks of rivets, panel lines, gear, flaps etc. to do before I get to that. I would likely order some Pe-2 books, browse the net, then make a decision when I need to. Probably something with a disruptive camo scheme and a patriotic slogan or image on it.