Author Topic: Reward effort not just success  (Read 2989 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2019, 04:33:18 PM »
A more obvious progress toward next achievement would be nice.   I have taken the effort to look at achievements maybe four times in a decade.  It's just not that user friendly.   

Air Medals are awarded for missions.  You could list progress toward the next one for example.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2019, 05:27:05 PM »
you can say it all you want, most players want to just dive in and play. They dont even look at instructions/ directions  sheets any more. It's not the lack of trainers or people willing to help, it the newbs themselves who dont want to take the time to learn/figure out/practice how the game works.

The old "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink" deal.

This
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Offline bustr

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2019, 07:28:38 PM »
Shuf,

Thats telling them to crawl over salted glass while you wash your hands of them. The point of FESS's discussion is to remove our kick-em off the cliff to swim or die crapping on these kinds of conversations. Some one like you always ended the previous years of attempts by crapping on the whole idea and they had to keep crawling on the glass. It does not matter if they play all games by hopping in and running into walls for their own stupidity. There are very few games as brutal as ours to that kind of play style. Even Chuck Norris when he was first learning Taekwondo while he was in the service stationed in Korea got his rear end kicked daily in the beginning. Him being a non Korean, they could have thrown him off tall enough cliffs during his first month and history today would be different. They didn't pull a Shuffler school of eat it and die kiddy on him.

Small regular encouragements for effort are now an embedded part of the structure of the games gamers are staying with and expect to receive.  To old farts like us, the idea of getting a pat on the back every time we blow up a few buildings and get landed successfully, is grounds for telling Hitech and everyone on 200 a profanity laced screw you. Heck I turned off the achievement stars in favor of a better alphabetical roster sorting. Recently I was told I have 3 stars, OK, what does that even mean?? But, to younger gamers, it's an expected part of "encouragement for effort" that FESS is trying to talk about.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2019, 07:54:09 PM »
Shuf,

Thats telling them to crawl over salted glass while you wash your hands of them. The point of FESS's discussion is to remove our kick-em off the cliff to swim or die crapping on these kinds of conversations. Some one like you always ended the previous years of attempts by crapping on the whole idea and they had to keep crawling on the glass. It does not matter if they play all games by hopping in and running into walls for their own stupidity. There are very few games as brutal as ours to that kind of play style. Even Chuck Norris when he was first learning Taekwondo while he was in the service stationed in Korea got his rear end kicked daily in the beginning. Him being a non Korean, they could have thrown him off tall enough cliffs during his first month and history today would be different. They didn't pull a Shuffler school of eat it and die kiddy on him.

Small regular encouragements for effort are now an embedded part of the structure of the games gamers are staying with and expect to receive.  To old farts like us, the idea of getting a pat on the back every time we blow up a few buildings and get landed successfully, is grounds for telling Hitech and everyone on 200 a profanity laced screw you. Heck I turned off the achievement stars in favor of a better alphabetical roster sorting. Recently I was told I have 3 stars, OK, what does that even mean?? But, to younger gamers, it's an expected part of "encouragement for effort" that FESS is trying to talk about.

Your Chuck Norris analogy is perfect but you looked at it the wrong way. Chuck could have quit, but he didn't. He kept working to improve.

Everyone seems to think these folks are all quitters. I think they just do not want to invest the time to get better. Too many free games where you can BUY yourself better. They still think those games are free. They are conditioned that way.
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Offline FESS67

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2019, 02:27:41 AM »
This thread has drifted away from my intent, I accept the blame for my imprecise language.  I will create a new, more thought out post.

Offline bustr

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2019, 04:06:08 PM »
Your Chuck Norris analogy is perfect but you looked at it the wrong way. Chuck could have quit, but he didn't. He kept working to improve.

Everyone seems to think these folks are all quitters. I think they just do not want to invest the time to get better. Too many free games where you can BUY yourself better. They still think those games are free. They are conditioned that way.

I studied a very brutal traditional Japanese martial art. If my sensei had not continually encouraged me at every step, I would have quit after my first cracked ribs let alone my bloody face and other bleeding body parts. I had no real reason to be there through the novice period getting torn apart by being a newbie to learn something with no real world practicality. The constant encouragement kept me going, after all, there are no jobs anymore for a Bushi. And what you see in the movies where the novice is thrown off the cliff to sink or swim, that's BS since every student is immensely valuable to the survival of the tradition. The game itself will winnow out the newbies, with encouragement, some number may not leave who we have been rejecting by our tradition of isolating newbies with the cliff and broken salted glass approach. What is the point of doing that to new customers who represent revenue for HTC? Or is Hitech letting the inmates run his asylum and revenue means nothing anymore?

FESS I understand what you are trying to communicate, in the end, Shuffler wants them to pay the same dues he did or leave.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Reward effort not just success
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2019, 09:03:37 PM »
You are just saying they are not as good as we were. I think they are.

I am sure not against a method to help teach them. Heck I used to spend hours in the TA with individuals.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)