Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash...

[Mister Fork]

The classic result of unintentionally going from visual conditions into instrument conditions is that the pilot gradually pulls his aircraft into an increasingly-tight left-spiral dive.  Vertigo is a very strange feeling, which you really can’t duplicate except in an aircraft in actual IMC.  I remember my first time, I thought I had levelled the wings, but the instruments showed I was still turning, and I thought “WTF is the matter with these gauges?”

- oldman

I remember one cadet pilot instructor always saying, "the gauges never lie, only your brain will" -

The pilot filed a VFR flight plan into an area what was ILS only. He should of have filed an IFR flight plan and just flown direct. But as arm chair experts...

[guncrasher]

What he said. Debris was thrown almost 300 feet from main impact site. It wasn't moving a few knots.

Trinidad Silva,  known as frog in the movie colors was thrown over 100 feet in a collision with a drunk driver. he wasn't wearing a seat belt.


semp

[Busher]

Trinidad Silva,  known as frog in the movie colors was thrown over 100 feet in a collision with a drunk driver. he wasn't wearing a seat belt.


semp

I have a dear friend who made his living in helicopters and had the good fortune to survive one crash.

His words: "a chopper accident only begins when it contacts the earth; then the machine begins to club itself to death".

I am going to wait for the NTSB report to see what contributed to the spread of wreckage.

[Haskell]

The same generation of flash mobs and sucker-punching punks? What I thought.

ok boomer lol

[Puma44]

Interesting read.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2020/01/29/pilot-in-kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-by-instruments/#2b4ec52d26ea

[pembquist]

Interesting read.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2020/01/29/pilot-in-kobe-bryant-helicopter-crash-wasnt-allowed-to-fly-by-instruments/#2b4ec52d26ea

Well that is a shame, I imagine a lot of their clientele could-easily/would-have footed the bill to have an all weather charter, it's not like they were chartering a Jet Ranger. It sounds like it is unrealistic to consider using a helicopter around LA with an IFR flight plan, too busy, but just to have a proficient instrument pilot as a safety feature, (I assume these are single pilot charters,) seems like a selling point. I guess though then you get into the normalization of deviance spiral with the old, "well if it gets that bad I can always......." I wonder what the cost differential would be.

[DmonSlyr]

I appreciate and enjoys y'alls educated facts on the situation of spatial disorientation. Even learned something myself.

It's just strange to me that a Kobe, who was seen in helicopter crashes in cartoons, nike commercials, and movies, wouldn't have the best of the best pilots that money could buy. Given his status and the groups he was involved with. It seems like such a situation could have been avoided with proper training and experience. I still don't understand  why he would drop altitude if you cannot see. He could hover, he could climb, surely the guy would have been able to see his altimeter dropping rapidly. I just don't get it. In a plane I could understand, but not in a very expensive  top of the line helicopter that could hover. 

[Puma44]

Spatial D is a killer, regardless of it’s a plane or helicopter.  The price of the aircraft has no bearing on susceptibility to spatial D.

[pembquist]

I appreciate and enjoys y'alls educated facts on the situation of spatial disorientation. Even learned something myself.

It's just strange to me that a Kobe, who was seen in helicopter crashes in cartoons, nike commercials, and movies, wouldn't have the best of the best pilots that money could buy. Given his status and the groups he was involved with. It seems like such a situation could have been avoided with proper training and experience. I still don't understand  why he would drop altitude if you cannot see. He could hover, he could climb, surely the guy would have been able to see his altimeter dropping rapidly. I just don't get it. In a plane I could understand, but not in a very expensive  top of the line helicopter that could hover.

I think it is very hard to grasp unless you have experienced it and than it is crystal clear. I don't personally know what flying a helicopter on instruments is like but I would expect that transitioning to a hover from 170 knots or whatever on instruments isn't all that easy. Beyond that this type of accident is very common, accounting for something like 10% of general aviation accidents. Transitioning inadvertently between flying with reference to the ground and flying on instruments is not the same as flying an instrument flight plan. The issue isn't a lack of instrument flying skill, but a lack of skill at making unpopular decisions without any support.

[Chalenge]

ok boomer lol

I'd rather be a has-been boomer, than a never-was snowflake.   

[TyFoo]

Requiring IFR trained pilots in a VFR operation doesn’t make sense if the pilots don’t spend a significant portion of their flying utilizing instrument skills to remain IFR proficient. LA is prone to good weather most of the year, which may be one reason Company Op Specs does not require it. Mandating IFR is a hazardous recipe for the very situation that occurred. If you don’t use it, you lose it.

Why mandate IFR to fly the one day or one week out of very 4,5 or 6 months that comes along if you don’t have to? Is your meeting, kids game, or vacation more important than your pre-mature funeral? I am sure anyone of those that perished would tell ya the right answer.

Vertigo is a medical condition of the inner ear. You can experience Spatial Disorientation (SD) w/ Vertigo but they are not the same thing. Spatial Disorientation is a result of taking away one or more sensory inputs such as your vision, inner ear, or kinesthetic senses. The brain will still process the partial input and output an improper result. SD is further broken down into 11 or more sensory illusions, such as Graveyard spin, graveyard spiral, the leans, acceleration, or deceleration errors etc. What you experience depends on sensory deprivation, lighting/ darkness, aircraft, head, and body movement.

Even proficient Pilots experience SD, but proficiency, and re-current training help you to recognize and work through SD.

Non-proficient pilots reactions to SD can range from not recognizing SD and either not react or react improperly, to recognizing SD and still respond improperly. Some recognize SD and freeze up - and then don't fly the plane. SD can happen very quickly or SD can be very subtle.

[Busher]

I think it is very hard to grasp unless you have experienced it and than it is crystal clear. I don't personally know what flying a helicopter on instruments is like but I would expect that transitioning to a hover from 170 knots or whatever on instruments isn't all that easy. Beyond that this type of accident is very common, accounting for something like 10% of general aviation accidents. Transitioning inadvertently between flying with reference to the ground and flying on instruments is not the same as flying an instrument flight plan. The issue isn't a lack of instrument flying skill, but a lack of skill at making unpopular decisions without any support.

I am not qualified to fly helicopters but I believe a hover would be impossible without visual reference to the ground.
A hover assumes flying above a fixed point... even if the pilot could stabilize the machine at a zero airspeed constant altitude, there is no way he could know if the machine was drifting in space. Airspeed Indicators are pretty useless unless the machine is moving forward in the range of 40 knots or more.... what if the drift were backwards?