Cut Price Airlines: How DO they do it?

[beet1e]

Hmmm, yesss.... (spoken in a Jeremy Paxman voice).  Mr. Toad, do you think that FBW is a Management favoured initiative? I knew a retired BA DC10 captain who seemed to think that *they* wanted to deskill the job of pilot, but it was not clear who *they* were...  

I'd just got home from a flying trip from France, and was talking about it in a pub with the guy I'd gone with, and a guy overheard and started talking to us. He turned out to be a BA 757 captain, and seemed to favour the older more mature first officers. In his opinion, he could rely on them to do the job, whereas he "had to keep an eye on things" with the newbies, who seemed to favour full use of the automatics at all times. Do you think we're moving to a situation in which *they* want the pilot to have less and less responsibility? The control column encased by a glass box on which there's a sign which says "In emergency, break glass"? I have no axe to grind either way. Sure, I accept your feelings about FBW, but then *they* might say that 45% of all air accidents are caused by pilot error, so let's go as far as we can towards getting rid of the pilot.

I'll stick to flying for now, but the moment I hear "powered by Microsoft", I'm back to cars, trains and boats.

[Toad]

FBW doesn't break any new ground with regards to aircraft capabiities, IMO.

It's just a different technology/methodology for doing the same old things.

For example, FBW engine controls merely do things electronically that used to be done with a cable or a pushrod. The actual inputs are still either made by the pilot or the autopilot/performance computer.

So I'm not sure I see where FBW technology in and of itself makes pilots any more or less necessary to the operation.

It's in the realm of the Flight Management System....... a computer....... that the pilot interface with the aircraft is changing. They've computerized a lot of the performance aspects that we used to figure out with paper charts. They've computerized a lot of the route planning and radio changing we used to do manually.

FBW devices interface well with this but even before those were in use old autopilots and FMS (like the L-1011) could operate the aircraft in the same manner as FMS and a "FBW controls".

FMS and FBW are the same as any computer operation; Garbage In, Garbage Out. You can get yourself in very deep and very fast if you don't know what you're doing with an FMS.

So, as I said, I really don't see FBW as some "management tool" to deemphasize pilot skills.

Besides, they'll always require a pilot, no matter how much FMS and FBW they build in. They have to have someone to blame.

[beet1e]

Besides, they'll always require a pilot, no matter how much FMS and FBW they build in. They have to have someone to blame.

How true. How very true. I always remember that 1989 B737 air disaster at Kegworth, in which the pilots shut down the wrong engine. It was later found that the fire alarm wiring was incorrectly installed, and other 737s were recalled to have their wiring checked/modified. The B737 that crashed had been en route to Belfast when the left engine failed, and they attempted an emergency landing at East Midlands Airport. For whatever reason, the co-pilot was led to believe that the right engine had failed, and shut it down – hence TWO dead engines, and the plane was unable to make it to the airport and crashed short of the field on a motorway embankment.  Both pilots were sacked, and at the time I remember thinking that I would never fly British Midland again in view of how shabbily the pilots had been treated by the airline. But if I took that stance, I don’t think there would be many airlines left for me to choose from.  The captain was paralysed and will never walk again. I believe both lost their pensions. Seems that the wiring faults on this and the other 737s affected were matters that were swept under the carpet. By sacking (oops, firing) the two pilots, blame had been apportioned, justice was seen to have been done, and it was business as usual for British Midland.

[Toad]

Conseco files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

The filing follows a yearslong tailspin after the conglomerate's aggressive acquisition strategy in the 1990s backfired.

Must be those dang union workers again, eh Grun? They're always out buying other companies.

[GRUNHERZ]

Yes of course unions are cause of every business failiure, thats exactly the point I'm trying to make...

[Toad]

Awwwwwwww c'mon. You can find a way to blame Conseco on unions. I know you can! Don't be a quitter!