GDP in at 7.2%...Economy looking up...

[miko2d]

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist" - John Maynard Keynes.

DmdNexus: Balancing the budget, cuting government spending, reducing governement, and balancing the federal budget was working well while the previous administration was in office and as a result the US economy enjoyed the largest economic boom in US history.... [or were the Republicans responsible for that boon?]

 You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 Chronologically, the budget became balanced and economy boomed after Republicans took control of Congress - and in this country it's the Congress, not the President who controls the budget.

 Not that the Congress had anything to do with the articficial unsustainable "boom".

 There was no budget surplus - it was a trick of using temporary social security surplus and paper profits on the stock market boom that allowed scoundrels to project the surplus. Government's liabilitities exceed it's assets by about $50 trillion on the currently discounted value basis - which means we have much less expected income than liabilities that we will have to pay. Does that look like a surplus to you? And how would would $1 trillion of imaginary surplus in 10 years make a dent in $50 trillion missing?

 The largest economic boom was caused by Greenspan's credit expansion combined with wider dollar acceptance due to opening of formerly closed sovier and chinese economies. It ended up in a huge bust that wiped out most of the value created.

 miko

[DmdNexus]

Originally posted by muckmaw
According to the article, it was the best quarter since 1984.

Reagan had 8 years to do something with the economy and Bush senior had 4.... they ran up the credit card and ran the country into the ground.

"Best" quarter? Don't count your laurels just yet.

In regards to profit and gross income this quarter is not very good at all.

Companies are still not growing. Unemployment is still up, and Sony is laying off 20,000 people!!

What I suspect we're seeing is an artifical spike, due to artifical stimulus which can't be sustained. I'm not an expert... just my opinion.

It if lasts up until election next year.. and my 401k increases, yes, I will vote for Bush. I will become a republican, and I will chant the mindless mantra of conservatism.... except I won't wear any of their silly clothes, and sleep with sheep like the rest of the conservatives.

If next quarter, it dies off... well... then it was just a flash in the pan... and Mr Bush is like all the other Republican men in regards to their performance... they talk the talk.. but they can't deliver the goods.

[DmdNexus]

Originally posted by miko2d
 The largest economic boom was caused by Greenspan's credit expansion combined with wider dollar acceptance due to opening of formerly closed sovier and chinese economies. It ended up in a huge bust that wiped out most of the value created.
 miko [/B]

So you're saying Greensapn is evil and should be destroyed?

I do know in the 1990's my 401k was very nice....jobs were plentiful.. companies were buying and expanding...

Then what's the cure?
Tax cuts?
Defeciet spending?

[muckmaw]

Originally posted by DmdNexus
Reagan had 8 years to do something with the economy and Bush senior had 4.... they ran up the credit card and ran the country into the ground.

"Best" quarter? Don't count your laurels just yet.

In regards to profit and gross income this quarter is not very good at all.

Companies are still not growing. Unemployment is still up, and Sony is laying off 20,000 people!!

What I suspect we're seeing is an artifical spike, due to artifical stimulus which can't be sustained. I'm not an expert... just my opinion.

It if lasts up until election next year.. and my 401k increases, yes, I will vote for Bush. I will become a republican, and I will chant the mindless mantra of conservatism.... except I won't wear any of their silly clothes, and sleep with sheep like the rest of the conservatives.

If next quarter, it dies off... well... then it was just a flash in the pan... and Mr Bush is like all the other Republican men in regards to their performance... they talk the talk.. but they can't deliver the goods.

Gentlemen, here is another fine example of "I sure hope the economy does not recover while Bush is in office...no matter how many Americans suffer."

WTG

[Scootter]

Originally posted by DmdNexus

It if lasts up until election next year.. and my 401k increases, yes, I will vote for Bush. I will become a republican, and I will chant the mindless mantra of conservatism.... except I won't wear any of their silly clothes, and sleep with sheep like the rest of the conservatives.

.

Mine is up this year to date  21.3% whats wrong with yours:D


And as far as you being a rep.  we don't want ya;)

[muckmaw]

Thats a nice return.

I'm a little more conservative and have allocated perhaps a little too much in fixed income so my YTD is only 17.6%

[DmdNexus]

Originally posted by muckmaw
Gentlemen, here is another fine example of "I sure hope the economy does not recover while Bush is in office...no matter how many Americans suffer."

WTG

yah you're a liberal!

[miko2d]

DmdNexus: So you're saying Greensapn is evil and should be destroyed?

 Actually, Greenspan says Greenspan is evil and should be destroyed:  Gold and Economic Freedom

The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. They have created paper reserves in the form of government bonds which-through a complex series of steps-the banks accept in place of tangible assets and treat as if they were an actual deposit, i.e., as the equivalent of what was formerly a deposit of gold. The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets.

The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of the society lose value in terms of goods. When the economy's books are finally balanced, one finds that loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds financed by bank credit expansion.

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the "hidden" confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.

Then what's the cure?
Tax cuts?
Defeciet spending?

 Tax cuts are meaningles as long as they are only paper given to people while the government continues taking resources from economy.
 If the government gives you a tax cut with the money it borrows from you or prints, how will everyone get increase in purchasing power?
 The money was printed, so the spending power that some people spend now actually came from their and other people's loss of value in dollar holdings. It's wealth redistribution, not wealth creation.

 First and foremost the government should stop printing money. Then all other problems will be corrected or will become visible. The government will not be able to remove resources from economy without openly raising taxes or confiscating people's savings. A congress votes on that. When the government confiscates people's savings throuh inflation, nobody gets to vote on that.

 miko

[DmdNexus]

Originally posted by miko2d
[ First and foremost the government should stop printing money. Then all other problems will be corrected or will become visible. The government will not be able to remove resources from economy without openly raising taxes or confiscating people's savings. A congress votes on that. When the government confiscates people's savings throuh inflation, nobody gets to vote on that.

So... eh... we're screwed?

And what this country needs is another revolution?

[miko2d]

DmdNexus: So... eh... we're screwed?
And what this country needs is another revolution?

 We certainly are.
 I do not see a point in inciting "another revolution". If there were enough people willing to figh in such a revolution, there would certainly be enough to elect more than one libertarian to Congress.

 You just protect yourself against crash of the dollar and breakdown of the monetary system and wait.

 When people carrying bags of dollars are dying of hunger in the streets, the surviving population will become much more receptive to the idea of sound money.

 miko

[JBA]

Originally posted by muckmaw
Hey where's that swedish guy who's always on here hoping the US economy will tank?

He's pretty quiet on this subject.

This is way he's not posting.

The EU Member States

During the second quarter of 2003, six Member States recorded a fall in GDP: Denmark and the Netherlands
(-0.6% each), France (-0.3%) and Belgium, Germany and Italy (-0.1% each). Spain recorded the highest growth rate (+0.7%).

Among the main components of domestic demand, household final consumption increased in all Member States except the Netherlands (-1.3%), being most dynamic in Spain (+1.0%). Growth rates of gross fixed capital formation varied between -4.6% in Denmark and +1.2% in the United Kingdom. Exports recorded the strongest growth in Spain (+3.0%) and Finland (+2.5%) while the United Kingdom (-2.6%) and Denmark (-2.3%) showed the most significant decreases. Imports rose particularly in Spain (+2.9%) and Italy (+2.8%), and recorded the strongest decrease in the United Kingdom (-2.5%).

Compared to the same quarter of the previous year, Greece recorded the highest growth (+4.5%), followed by Spain (+2.3%) and the United Kingdom (+2.0%). Portugal (-2.3%), the Netherlands (-1.2%), Denmark (-1.0%), France (-0.3%) and Germany (-0.2%) recorded falls.

[muckmaw]

oh.

[Rude]

Originally posted by Sixpence
And what followed the mid 80's? You better hope history does not repeat itself.

What preceeded the Reagan years(think Carter)

[Rude]

Originally posted by miko2d
DmdNexus: So... eh... we're screwed?
And what this country needs is another revolution?

 We certainly are.
 I do not see a point in inciting "another revolution". If there were enough people willing to figh in such a revolution, there would certainly be enough to elect more than one libertarian to Congress.

 You just protect yourself against crash of the dollar and breakdown of the monetary system and wait.

 When people carrying bags of dollars are dying of hunger in the streets, the surviving population will become much more receptive to the idea of sound money.

 miko

This is your best to date....only one problem....this country consumes like no other on the planet....if we stop buying, what happens to the rest of the planet?

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by DmdNexus
Balancing the budget, cuting government spending, reducing governement, and balancing the federal budget was working well while the previous administration was in office and as a result the US economy enjoyed the largest economic boom in US history.... 7

LOL! you are out of touch!

Two words:
Tech Boom

Incidently, the national debt was still over 5 trillion with Clinton. That bill Clinton passed was one of those "feel good" bills y'all fell for...again.

However, I will say, that paying off the national debt is a good thing that will not, cannot be done by any ONE administration.