Author Topic: What do you brits think of this book and author? (Read 4881 times)

Curval · « **Reply #30 on:** November 02, 2003, 06:48:59 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Hehe - it's *that* movie again! The bits I liked were "Shut your filthy hole you scum!" followed, almost immediately, by "Answer the Governor when he asks you a question!" and "Don't read it, sign it!". Did you see him in Battle of Britain? "Put that cigarette out! The mains have gone. Can't you smell gas?" - and then - "Don't you yell at me, Mr. Warwick!" ROFL...

____________________________
You are now in HM Prison Parkmore. And from this moment! you will address all prison officers as "Sir".

Are you aware of the white line painted on the floor directly behind you? Then your toes belong on the other side of it!!!

lol...I actually quote that movie alot...this time it fit...and was kinda for your benefit. I wondered if you'd pick up on it.

I saw the mention you made of the film in the General Discussion forum when you commented on Batz sig.

Shuckins · « **Reply #31 on:** November 02, 2003, 08:42:04 PM »

Beetle,

I strongly doubt that the law-abiding citizens of the U.K. would begin carrying out whole-sale slaughter of each other if the government were to allow widespread gun ownership. They would not be blood-thirsty under any circumstances. The law-abiding seldom are. You didn't feel any inclinations to massacre your fellow-man after your shooting session with lasz did you? Of course you didn't.

I suspect that U.K.'s criminal society is much smaller than that of the United States. The homicide statistics given by the FBI draw few distinctions between the people who make up those statistics. Many of those ARE the result of drug wars, while others are considered justifiable by the police. According to the last statistics that I saw, even the police are involved in 3,000 homicide shootings yearly.

How those statistics might change if private firearm ownership were eliminated in the U.S. is anybody's guess.

Regards, Shuckins

Angus · « **Reply #32 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:36:14 AM »

There we go again, another guns in UK/USA thread.
Well, in the gun armed old USA, you have many times more Armed robberies, rapes and murders than in the UK. OK?

Momus-- · « **Reply #33 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:51:17 AM »

The Dunblane massacre that precipitated the UK handgun ban involved legally held weapons owned by a guy who just happened to be several sandwiches short of the full picnic. The resulting ban was aimed at preventing a similar event from occuring again, and had nothing to do with tackling the problem of illegally held weapons; weapons that by and large were already illegally held *prior* to the ban coming into force.

One *could* argue that the massacre was a freak event and that the resulting legislation was a political overeaction. What however does not stand up to scrutiny is the oft made claim that there is a causal relationship between the ban and a subsequent increase in the violent crime statistics. I'd be interested to know if Ms Lee Malcolm is arguing this?

beet1e · « **Reply #34 on:** November 03, 2003, 04:20:10 AM »

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Originally posted by Shuckins
How those statistics might change if private firearm ownership were eliminated in the U.S. is anybody's guess.

And, by the same token, how those statistics might change if private firearm ownership in the UK become unrestricted is anyone's guess. The only thing that is certain is that there would be a big increase in gun homicides. I can't see how arming everyone in the UK could reduce our gun homicide rate from 50-100 down to a single digit value. It hasn't worked in the US, and it wouldn't work here.

lazs2 · « **Reply #35 on:** November 03, 2003, 08:27:30 AM »

curval... thanks for the link.. I agree with her but have never read her before. She claims that she wrote the book with no preconcieved notions... she reminds me of John Lott who was also a history professor and actually thought he could prove that guns were the problem but changed his mind. If there is some fact or figure or even conclusion about either book that you find false then I would like to hear it curval. seems to me tho that you are simple twitching at the knee while holding your hands over your ears and screaming NAAA NNAAA NAAAA whenever facts about guns that don't fit your "feelings" are presented.

The book seems to point out that the english, like us, allways believed that the right to self defense and firearms was a given.. it was a duty even. monarchs that were fearful of their rule being overturned used any excuse to disarm the people. I think that history is simply repeating itself and that things like dunbane are used as excuses to pass draconian legeslation.

The book seems to say that no matter how well armed a country is the homicide rate stays about the same while, the better armed the population is the the lower the crimerate.

You may or may not prevent a nut from shooting a few people every decade or so by passing draconian gun laws but you won't change the homicide rate.

waste of time.... womanly feel good crap.... excuse to disarm the populace.,,

lazs

Curval · « **Reply #36 on:** November 03, 2003, 09:21:12 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
If there is some fact or figure or even conclusion about either book that you find false then I would like to hear it curval. seems to me tho that you are simple twitching at the knee while holding your hands over your ears and screaming NAAA NNAAA NAAAA whenever facts about guns that don't fit your "feelings" are presented.

Okay...I will get back to you on the article, because there are a few issues I have with it...but anything on the book will have to wait until I actually read it.

Frankly though, you presented this book, as she did I guess, by stating that she basically is an unbiased source...it only took a quick Yahoo search to actually debunk that, but not because I was knee twitching but because I was actually interested.

I'm busy today, so I will respond this evening.

Dago · « **Reply #37 on:** November 03, 2003, 10:19:56 AM »

So Beetle, you are at it again,

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But don't be misled by comparisons between declining violence in the US, and rising violence in the UK. We've still yet to have a year in which more than 100 people are killed by guns.

Everything has to be about the US and its problems doesn't it aszhole? This thread started about a book regarding the UK gun issue, and you immediately want to make it about problems in the US, gotta do a comparison.

You are a fxcked up individual. I am still hoping you get therapy for your problems. Maybe buy one of those donut expanding things so you can feel better about yourself someday.

Dago

Mini D · « **Reply #38 on:** November 03, 2003, 10:27:59 AM »

How about curbing this one until someone else actually reads the book? The rhetoric is getting tiresome.

MiniD

airguard · « **Reply #39 on:** November 03, 2003, 10:41:55 AM »

Well guns is for hunting, but i dont do it anymore caue Im getting soft and cant kill the poor birds and rabbits anymore.
(reason is prolly I can buy anything i want in the store dammit)

A gun i dont need for defending myselve in my country, cause only 2 % of crimes in Norway beeing done by guns and that is pretty much because they know the police isnt carrying any guns either.

There was one in the late 90`s but the bankrobbers ( 1 of them)was killed by the police by one of the police snipers. And then it was over.

We have been harrassed by some tragic gun incidents but that was people that have been or was in the army and had ag3`s or m16`s with loads of ammo at home, and killed themselve and their whole family. (guess that woulda been harder with a knife).

Nah guns is not needed in normal homes unless youre a hunter or a sportsman that need a gun(meaning competition shooting).

beet1e · « **Reply #40 on:** November 03, 2003, 11:50:59 AM »

Dago! Thank you for those kind words.

I'm fine, thank you. Lazs started this thread as a discussion about a book that he's reading, as he has been to Britain and maybe has a fascination with our unarmed society. We were just talking amongst ourselves. I am always willing to try to see the opposite side of the coin. That's why I took Lazs up on his offer to shoot some of his guns. It was an interesting day, and now I think I might buy that book he's reading for myself. BTW, is that a T3 Cub in your avatar pic?

Lazs - how far have you got into that book? Has it been good so far? Do you recommend it?

Dago · « **Reply #41 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:16:59 PM »

Your quite welcome for my kind words, and I do hope you do get the help you need since you obviously have issues.

Despite your fixiation and beliefs, the USA is not the root cause of all things evil, everything in this country is not hosed up, we don't all run around carrying guns and killing each other, we are not all drunk drivers, and our government doesn't control everything in our lives.

You just choose to get on this forum and act like it.

The aircraft in my avatar is a Naval Aircraft Factory N3N-3.

I help maintain it, and occasionally fly it.

dago

Batz · « **Reply #42 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:18:21 PM »

I dont care anything about the topic but this is \for beetle

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Yarbles, Great Bolshy Yarblockos to you. I'll meet you with chain, or nudge, or britva, any time, I'm not have you aiming tolchoks at me reasonless. It stands to reason, I won't have it.

lazs2 · « **Reply #43 on:** November 03, 2003, 02:29:24 PM »

curval.... how did your yahoo search "prove" that her research was "biased"??? The article was after the book and her statements were what she had found to be true during her research.... I haven't ever heard of her before but a yahoo search can find no instance where she had any preconcieved (before doing the book) notins.

beetle... I obviously know very much less than you do about british history and law but the book is facinating to me in that regard. it starts out with the medieval. It is amazing to me how our laws decended from yours so closely. It is also facinating how you changed paths but how we believe in the same rights that you did all the way up to modern times.. so.... for an American it is facinating reading. It might be old hat to you but.... I would be interested in your take on the actual facts and conclusions she makes. I don't think the book will bore you... Oh... I picked up a used copy of "more guns less crime" by lott that I will send you when it get's here so email me yur address or place you want it sent.
lazs

Curval · « **Reply #44 on:** November 03, 2003, 02:52:43 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
curval.... how did your yahoo search "prove" that her research was "biased"??? The article was after the book and her statements were what she had found to be true during her research.... I haven't ever heard of her before but a yahoo search can find no instance where she had any preconcieved (before doing the book) notins.

No time to do in depth research on it lazs...but good point. Faact is though she wrote ALOT of pro-gun stuff before the book you are reading.

To Keep and Bear Arms: The Origins of an Anglo-American Right
Author: Joyce Lee Malcolm, April, 1996
Manufacturer: Harvard Univ Pr

She wrote this one, published in 1996. Haven't read it but wanna make a bet she has her opinions firmly rooted on the pro-gun side?

I cannot find out definatively where Joyce is from...but so far what I have read points to the fact that she is an American. If so she sure is obsessed with British gun control.

Sounds like someone else I know.

Maybe she is a hottie lazs...the two of you might make quite a couple. Can't see it last though...she seems a bit strong willed for ya.