Here kitty kitty kitty

[capt. apathy]

I love to point out the cougars to new parents at the zoo.
watch them stand in front of the cat holding a toddler.
the cats eyes follow the kid everywhere, like he's watching a porkchop.

cougar are very common in this part of the country.
I see signs of them almost every time I spend more than a day in the woods.

they are expert at hiding and know their environment well, if it allows me see it I figure it's no longer afraid of me and doesn't see 'man' as a threat it's now a danger if not me then to the next family who put up a tent.  my conclusion is- valid target.

btw- the cat population hasn't gone up signifigantly since they stopped allowing people to run hounds on cats.  but at least from what I see on the news, cat sightings close to schools, and other signs that they are loseing fear of people have at least trippled.

[Airhead]

That's not a Cougar, it's an African lion. Sheeesh, look at the tail. It looks to me like one of those Texas "sport hunts" where they place tame circus animals in a garage and let the "hunters" blast away before the poor animals get a chance to wake up even.

Texans suck.

[GRUNHERZ]

So, none of the critics here would shoot the cat if it was threatening you?  Not hypothetical, but in real life - just you and the cat all alone out in the woods...

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Airhead
That's not a Cougar, it's an African lion. Sheeesh, look at the tail. It looks to me like one of those Texas "sport hunts" where they place tame circus animals in a garage and let the "hunters" blast away before the poor animals get a chance to wake up even.

Texans suck.

I know you ehhrm might be trolling but that is defintely a Mountain Lion and not an African Lion. The head shape and face markings are consistent with a Mountain Lion.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by davidpt40
No, they do not hunt humans.  Every once in a while a cougar will kill a human.  Very very rare.

Most likely this cougar was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.  

The U.S. does not have a huge bio-diversity of animals.  Its important to hold onto the species we have.  Cats in the USA are pretty rare.  Other than the zoo, I've never seen a bobcat, or puma, or cougar.

 

Story sounds a bit fishy to me.  Why would a cat stalk two animals of comparable size, that do not look like prey (bipedal rather than quadraped).

They are not rare and they do kill and attack people. In Arizona, about 250-350 are killed each year, both as big game and as predator control by ranchers. They are expert at stealth and they don't usually appear in the "wrong place at the wrong time"..... they know you are there long before you would ever know they arearound in most cases.

Interesting fact: the cougar is not the biggest cat in North America, the black jaguar is. The black Jaguar or leopard ranges into southern Arizona  and is a very big cat.

The black jaguar used to range all the way up to the Grand Canyon. It's the 3rd largest cat in the world.

[Dune]

BTW, a jaguar was just spotted near the AZ/Mex border a month ago.

And david, where have you gone that you would see one?  Now mind you, I've only seen one in the wild.  However, a deputy I work with has a predation permit from the AZ Game & Fish.  If livestock belonging to a local rancher is killed, he tracks the cat with his hounds and kills it.  He says he can take me to see fresh tracks any day with a good chance of seeing a live one.  He kills several every year.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So, none of the critics here would shoot the cat if it was threatening you?

Nope, never. Like I said, I would pet it and then strike up a conversation with it. No doubt it knows where all of the deer, like Bambi's mother, frequent, and I could get a kill that would feed both me and its family(if it had one). After that, I would challenge it to a game of beer pong and proceed to whoop its bellybutton because it doesn't have an opposable thumb. It shall make great mittens.
-SW

[GRUNHERZ]

LOL

[capt. apathy]

dune hit it pretty close i'd say.  

for some of you this is the hypothetical "proud beast" from the zoo, who is off in these mystical places where all animals live together in harmony.  

to me it's my back yard.  I live in the biggest city in Oregon, not the suburbs but the city.  they've been spotted close to schools within 5 miles of my house.  this is real life not a dr suess book.

I spend an average of 20-30 days in the forest every year (actually thats nights, not counting day trips).  

as some of you have pointed out it is their territory and when you are in someone else’s territory you play by their rules and speak their language.  as someone who knows that cats territory pretty damn well, I know his rules.  his rules say that the top predator takes what he wants.  what he wants is to eat, and if the deer are a bit to fast for him, your kid runs pretty slow.

however when we are the top predator he stays away from us, he hides when we come around, he avoids are children because he knows we are near and a threat,  he runs when the dog barks because we usually show up soon and dogs lead us to him,  and he'd rather not be a rug.

maybe we should take a poll, it would be interesting.  
how much time do you spend "in nature"?
real nature, no water spigot, no parking slot, no fire-pit, damn sure no electrical outlets, and no camp manager or other agency to run to when you hear a noise. not another person for a mile, maybe 3.

what do you bet if we took this poll, that the strength of the belief in the whole anti-hunting, "lay down and let nature take you out because your on his turf" thing, is inversely proportionate to the believers contact with nature?

[mrblack]

Originally posted by capt. apathy



maybe we should take a poll, it would be interesting.  
how much time do you spend "in nature"?
real nature, no water spigot, no parking slot, no fire-pit, damn sure no electrical outlets, and no camp manager or other agency to run to when you hear a noise. not another person for a mile, maybe 3.

 

Well Lets See Having grown up on a Farm/cattle ranch In Colorado I would say I have spent my fair shair of time in the mountains.
And I know a thing or two about critters.

My point Is to respect wildlife and to give the wild things some room to LIVE.

We have taken some much of there home away from them already.
Ski resorts , moutain biking trails and the like.
If we the Smarter species go in the woods we should take to time to educate ourselves and maybe give the wildthings a little respect and ROOM.

AS far as this Idiot In the picture:rolleyes:
Aint he a stud:lol

As someone who has hunted evreything from rabbits to people
I can tell you It aint that hard to kill a animal with a rifle.
Now do It with A Bow and thats a different story.

Question Did the cat attack or attempt to attack the dude?
Was he killing livestock?
Was he a threat to the mans family?

Or was It just a case Of Look at me I'm a big Man I killed an animal:aok

[mrblack]

Oh and don't you agree they look much better alive than Dead?
Unless you just like looking at dead things:(

[capt. apathy]

Question Did the cat attack or attempt to attack the dude?
Was he killing livestock?
Was he a threat to the mans family?

Or was It just a case Of Look at me I'm a big Man I killed an animal

the cat allowed the hunter to see it, it had lost it's fear of humans and was a threat.

Oh and don't you agree they look much better alive than Dead?
Unless you just like looking at dead things

gotta agree there, watching them take down a deer is like art (only seen it once when I was a kid, through binocs at about 400 yds,  very cool)

but when they lose their fear of people they also make a nice rug.

[davidpt40]

And david, where have you gone that you would see one? Now mind you, I've only seen one in the wild. However, a deputy I work with has a predation permit from the AZ Game & Fish. If livestock belonging to a local rancher is killed, he tracks the cat with his hounds and kills it. He says he can take me to see fresh tracks any day with a good chance of seeing a live one. He kills several every year.

Daniel Boone National Forest, Red River Gorge State Park, and Smokey Mountains.

Their historic range included the eastern U.S., but they are considered endangered there now.

In spite of their large size and powerful build,
jaguars (el tigre of the Mexicans) are shy and retiring.
They seldom, if ever, attack man unless cornered or at bay.

Whew, thanks for the info guys.  I'm going to go buy a gun so I can shoot any jaguars/mountain lions that attack me while in the forest.  Its a miracle I've lived this long!

[Sparks]

for some of you this is the hypothetical "proud beast" from the zoo, who is off in these mystical places where all animals live together in harmony.

Capt Apathy read my post ....  I am not saying  "ahhhh aren't dey cute lil *****cats"  .  I am saying they are to me[/i] a beautiful animal - powerful, fantastical designed for their job, masters of their environment.

To my questions well seems there are some conflicting answers ........

to 1) Would they actively hunt you?"

Some say no and some say yes. To me logic says that if its in its own territory and hungry and see's an animal (read human)in a vunerable postion then we are we say "fair game". As Capt.A said

his rules say that the top predator takes what he wants. what he wants is to eat, and if the deer are a bit to fast for him, your kid runs pretty slow.

However most of the attacks reported seem to come from behind - read Rips and Rippr29's posts - the people attacked didn't see it coming and surely thats how a big cat hunts?.

So how did this guy find this one - stumbled across it?? Most of you guys who say you do a lot of time in the wild admit you have never seen one.

To 2) Them vermin to us or us to them ?  Again the jury seems split but on balance it looks like more of us living in the hills and woods than them walking down mainstreet.

To 3) Not many people answered that one - Kappa and Vorticon .  Me I think I'd feel happy I survived but sad I had to kill it.

I think I have to disagree with this though

If that cougar happened upon me and I had a gun... I wouldn't sit around waiting for him to "come right at me". I would shoot it.

if it allows me see it I figure it's no longer afraid of me and doesn't see 'man' as a threat it's now a danger if not me then to the next family who put up a tent. my conclusion is- valid target.

Surely from the way they appear to attack then if you actually see one first then you have probably taken it by surprise and a shot in the air would make it run?? I suppose that is really the bit about is it necessary - basically if you are in the woods and see a Cougar at say 200yds and he sees you at the same time is he definitely going to attack you, might attack you, or run??

Humans have lived along side predators for ever but now we are more advanced we have a greater ability to go out and actively remove them - does this make it right to do so - I don't think so.  Is it right to protect ourselves and our family to the best of our ability - absolutely.    Sooooo.................  where do you draw the line ????  Difficult for someone living in urban UK to say.  Is shooting on sight protection or killing fo killings sake?  I don't often wake up in the morning to find a Cougar has crapped in the Geranium pot on the patio so who knows??

I hope I would give it chance to leave me alone first  but then if I saw one and then had to walk down a dark lane the next day knowing it was there ???? I dunno ............

Sparks

PS LOL - you cant say radish as in puddytat - PC or what

[Sixpence]

I would shoot it in a heartbeat. It will eat your kids and ravage your farm. Even close to the city now, there was a mountain lion spotted not too far north of Boston. I'm sorry, I just do not see a beautiful animal, I see a trained killer.